Mini 1061: Mafia in Someplace - Game Over!

[el simo]

Simo is scummy by association with Elleran. Not too sure how Benmage vs Simo will play out and more results from that will affect my read of him. If Elleran flips town for some reason that is a good point in favor of town Simo, however.

You should read the last newbie game I IC'd. It's still on going, so I can't say too much. But I was night killed so it's ok for my to say I defended and prevented the lynch of a claimed cop when literally the entire town thought he was scum, I was town. Read it here/ I won't let someone who I don't think is scum get lynched.

[el simo]

more results from that will affect my read of him.

Naturally, that way you save yourself from taking a stance and can just follow the wagon.

[diddin]

I already have a stance on you. I just think that more responses between you and Benmage will help shape out my stance a little. Plus an Elleran flip would help, hint hint.

[Retrospective]

This is ridiculous, you can't just ignore stuff which has happened in the past.

It's okay. I wouldn't expect you to think rationally. GG, keep voting on this alone.

About El Simo, to me his "pressure" is not pressure at all and am not sure why no-one picked up on this earlier. Maybe because his aura is "too town". I think a re-read of his play is in order.

Wow. More recycled backwash! I read this as you being agreeable to town. This way you don't make a splash and if el simo is indeed scum, you said you agree! Good mafia play.

Elleran does make some excuses and apologies over his play indicating nerves over possible slips. (school, hamlet) but I don't have time now for a full analysis as I have been promising. Will 100% do it tomorrow.

This is you agree'ing with towns suspects. Wow you're three for three, you're such a great townie! Also your reason is pretty bad considering others have done this much worse. Elleran is scummy, yes, but for different reasons.
If anyone is guilty of apologizing over their play it's diddin. I was glancing through the thread today and noticed that he kept apologizing for how he was playing on multiple posts. Mostly he was referring to walls of text, but apologizing just the same. The weird thing is that I don't see anyone directing post criticism at him. He just felt the need to defend his posts...

[Retrospective]

I already have a stance on you. I just think that more responses between you and Benmage will help shape out my stance a little. Plus an Elleran flip would help, hint hint.

Then say it. Withholding information doesn't help us and puts you in a scummy light.

[Elleran]

Simo is scummy by association with Elleran. Not too sure how Benmage vs Simo will play out and more results from that will affect my read of him. If Elleran flips town for some reason that is a good point in favor of town Simo, however.

I dislike this. Although el simo decided to get involved in my defense, I do not know what alignment he is. He may be a scum pushing for my defense to get some town cred or a town defending me because of good will. Trying to discern his alignment by speculating my alignment is unproductive and unrealistic. Seeing that so many players are against me, I would like to think that el simo is a townie with less to risk by defending me than a scum trying to get some town cred. Also, I'm speaking from my perspective in which I have the knowledge (and confirmation) that I am town 100%.

[Slaxx]

Hey, so do I.

I bet everyone here does.

[diddin]

I already have a stance on you. I just think that more responses between you and Benmage will help shape out my stance a little. Plus an Elleran flip would help, hint hint.

Then say it. Withholding information doesn't help us and puts you in a scummy light.

I already said my stance on simo is scummy due to association with Elleran. An Elll flip today could change that, obviously.

[DemonHybrid]

Not done reading your post but

I mentioned this because DH mentioned that we may have been scums together. I was just addressing something that I noticed.

When was this?

Elleran, you completely avoided this question.

When did I say that I think Retro and you might be mafia together?

[Benmage]

Gonna have to wait for content from me, don't think I can get to this game tonight.

[el simo]

I already have a stance on you. I just think that more responses between you and Benmage will help shape out my stance a little. Plus an Elleran flip would help, hint hint.

Then say it. Withholding information doesn't help us and puts you in a scummy light.

I already said my stance on simo is scummy due to association with Elleran. An Elll flip today could change that, obviously.

But this isn't what we're talking about. You said you'd make up your mind on the Ben vs me case when there has been more posting about it. That stance that you have taken is irrelevant to your comment about me and Ben, so my point stands.

[ICEninja]

This is ridiculous, you can't just ignore stuff which has happened in the past.

This is actually very true. And I don't like Retro's response to this at all:

It's okay. I wouldn't expect you to think rationally. GG, keep voting on this alone.

This is completely ignoring the point and attacking Sweep without any base. Definite scum points here.

However, the rest of Retro responding to Sweep I agree with completely.

About El Simo, to me his "pressure" is not pressure at all and am not sure why no-one picked up on this earlier. Maybe because his aura is "too town". I think a re-read of his play is in order.

If it isn't pressure, what is it? Also, people have picked up on how weak his vote is long before you, so don't act as if you discovered something.

Then say it. Withholding information doesn't help us and puts you in a scummy light.

He's given his stance. You're asking for information that is already out there.

[Jase]

I drop off the face of the earth and no body says anything? Even with all the talk about my activity level? Scum points for everyone.

Anyways. I've been pretty busy, and will continue to be for at least another day or two. Will be back up to normal by the end of the week. Until then I'll probably only be able to get in a few late night posts. I might still try to get that analysis out, but late at night is not a fun time to be playing mafia.

Now then, I think Ice has something on Simo. I specifically have a problem with all this "blatant lying" he's accusing Ice of. Really, vote or no, he was suspicious of ell, and even said he would hammer. Mixing up if simo placed a vote or not is null. I hardly think you can blame him when simo offered to hammer. That's another thing. If he was willing to hammer he should have been willing to place ell at L-2. No reason at all why he needs to be the hammer dropper.

His repeated cries of bullshit are in turn bullshit. His defense reeks.

Unvote
Vote: El Simo

[el simo]

And Jase, quite obviously, Benmage is scum.

See how easy it is to say something and then not explain anything?

[el simo]

I understand the non-committal tell but I still don't understand what is scummy about someone defending themselves adequately. It's like you expect me to be stubborn and anti-town by sticking to my word even though I've changed my mind.

[Slaxx]

Why is my Ell wagon dissapating?

He joked instead of giving any FoSs. He is dodgy as hell and has been on the defensive the whole time. the best he has done is pokeDiddin once or twice for stuff that might be like 10% scumtell.

I mean I agree El Simo is suspicious but come on, did you ever consider he really just thinks Ell is town (as mislead of a view as that is). I don't think we're going to gain as much from a simo lynch as we are an Ell lynch.

[Sweep]

I could post Retro is the greatest town player in the world and still get slammed for it ..

[Jase]

El Simo: Duh...huh? What specifically did I not explain? And you know declaring your defense adequate does not make anyone else believe it is so, right? I never said you where scummy because you didn't stick to your word. You're off trying to defend something I don't find you suspicious for. You sound like retro!

[el simo]

I never declared it adequate and I never said you said that and I wasn't defending myself from your accusations. Well done at addressing nothing.

[Jase]

Well then what the hell are you talking about in your last two posts? You said someones defense was adequate...if you meant somebody other than yourself you probably should have, you know, mentioned that person at all? You're inventing a phantom statement for me I never said that you said that I said that you weren't defending yourself from my accusations. Where the hell did you pull that from?

And to repeat myself "WHAT SPECIFICALLY DID I NOT EXPLAIN?"

I don't know man...I'm getting the impression that you've either taken a nasty blow to the head or are panicking. You should see a doctor or confess respectively.

[el simo]

Oh I see that comment now. I was referring to Ell. I was suspicious of him so I was going to lay down the hammer when the time came, until then keeping my vote on you. How ever, before the time could come he adequately defended himself from the accusations made against him that I thought was scummy. That is why I retracted my statement about hammering, because I don't think he is scummy any more, which is why everyone else thinks I am scummy.

And as for what you didn't explain:

Now then, I think Ice has something on Simo.

His repeated cries of bullshit are in turn bullshit. His defense reeks.

These are both very vague statements. Show us that ICE is onto something, show us that my defence reeks. Don't just tell us. That is what I was trying to get across with the Benmage statement.

And lol no I'm not panicking. I'd go as far as saying I'm fairly certain I won't be lynched today ^ that is why I was worrying about being replaced.

To explain why: I understand that being non-committal is scummy, but it's not like I haven't explain all of my actions as I've taken them. Essentially my scum tell is based on ignoring everything I've said and just looking at the fact that I said I would hammer and then went back on my word. You either going to believe that it is scummy or you are going to believe that I took my actions for the reasons I stated when I made them. If the majority of the town thought I was scum I would've been lynched already, it's been plenty of time since the tell was revealed. If I had just said I wanted to hammer and then said I wasn't going to hammer with out any reason then sure lynch me I'd have done the same, but I didn't. Ell told me why I was wrong and I agreed. Easy as that.

[Retrospective]

The problem I"m seeing right now is if we vote Elleran and he flips town, I feel like everyone will autoclear el simo. I can remember countless times I went full out against a lynch on a townie to appear like I wasn't mafia. What's to prevent el simo from have doing the same? You guys talk about wifom like it's taboo, except this is a very real legitimate concern. No matter which way Elleran flips, I think el simo is mafia and needs to be lynched.

At this point, I will be more than happy with either a Sweep lynch or a el simo. I feel like Elleran's flip will tell us much less than everyone is giving credit for. It's not like mafia plays by the book and will always support a town lynch.

Also it annoys me to no end how much el simo tries to discredit everyone. He makes gross exaggerations to the ineffectiveness of all cases against him, however if you ignore his post and actually read the case they all have substance to them. Look through the game, he's done this countless times.

I think Slaxx, DH and diddin should consider lynching someone else for today. I'm not saying Elleran isn't scummy but the majority of the reason why I fos'd him is because I could see him being Sweep and el simo's partner. I also feel like that at the point the Elleran lynch is at, any player can easily just say "I want to see the flip" and seem town enough. For this reason, Elleran's lynch is even less revealing.

[el simo]

And by the by I'm a boxer, I take nasty blows to head on a daily basis.

[Retrospective]

You either going to believe that it is scummy or you are going to believe that I took my actions for the reasons I stated when I made them.

Funny. I said almost that word for word in my "poor defense" that you voted me for.

I'll dig up the quote if you guys don't believe me.

[el simo]

The problem I"m seeing right now is if we vote Elleran and he flips town, I feel like everyone will autoclear el simo. I can remember countless times I went full out against a lynch on a townie to appear like I wasn't mafia. What's to prevent el simo from have doing the same? You guys talk about wifom like it's taboo, except this is a very real legitimate concern. No matter which way Elleran flips, I think el simo is mafia and needs to be lynched.

Retro, for once you are correct. Nvm your WIFOM statement, just clearing my name because of he is town is WIFOM.

Also it annoys me to no end how much el simo tries to discredit everyone. He makes gross exaggerations to the ineffectiveness of all cases against him, however if you ignore his post and actually read the case they all have substance to them. Look through the game, he's done this countless times.

You also enjoy making vague statements. Show us this, don't just tell us. It is all too easy for me to tell everyone that you are scum with out a doubt or that I've clearly visited Venus, but showing everyone these things, different matter.

The biggest problem I have against statements like this is that they don't give you an opportunity to defend yourself. This in fact does make these sorts of statements scummy. What better argument for scum to use than one that can't be defended against.