Newbie 1024 -- Minimalist Mafia (Game Over)

[Beefster]

These questions are harmless and not very relevant. What are you trying to accomplish in asking them?

[Mute]

Vote: Neruz

because how are you not sure of your gender?

[Neruz]

The Internet; where Men are Men, Women are Men and Children are FBI Agents.

[RedCoyote]

Mastin replaces Heather. Thanks, Mastin!

[Trendall]

These questions are harmless and not very relevant. What are you trying to accomplish in asking them?

Well, previous mafia experience is very relevant, because people's playstyles are obviously going to change depending on how much they have played the game. It's very helpful to know if something that could be perceived as scummy could also be down to lack of experience. I ask whether people are male or female solely because I hate having very embarrassing 'omgg I'm a girl' conversations with people. The time questions are there just to get a general feel for what the game's going to be like, and again, if someone says that they're going to be very active, and then they're actually not during the game, that's something that's not necessarily scummy but worth looking into. I've seen people ask questions like this in many other games, and I've never seen anybody be called out for it. Personally, I think it's better than everyone going 'vote beefster because his name begins with B and I don't like B' or whatever people usually do.

Was the reasoning behind your random vote for me at the start of the day in any way serious?

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 1

• Beefster
  (Neruz)
  
  
  Mujex
  (Yenros)
  
  
  Trendall
  (Beefster)
  
  
  Kayi
  (Mujex)
  
  
  Neruz
  (Mute)
  
  
  Not Voting
  (Jay - Kayi - Mastin - Trendall)

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch.
Current Deadline: Nov. 17th, 2010 at 12:00 AM (CST)

[Yenros]

In my first game we had both questions and random votes, and the random votes got more discussion going then the questions did.

[Neruz]

I'm surprised, in my personal experience random votes never get any real discussion going. Everyone knows random votes are random, so no-one pays any attention to them.

Usually i've found the real discussion begins when someone breaks out of random voting and puts down a vote they actually mean, or look like they mean.

[Mastin]

Hello, Fellow Newbies! I'm Mastin, and I've never played a game before. It's nice to meet you all for the first time, and I'm...
Wait...

I

am listed as a

SE

?!?
Well...this really throws a wrench in my plans...
[hr][/hr]
As you can tell by if nothing else my title (to my knowledge, you still need at least 100 game posts and 6 on-site months for one), I'm obviously not a newbie, but the last time I played was over a year ago. So, forgive me if I don't exactly live up to the standard SE material.

Anyway, I've read the thread multiple times as a spectator; now to try it as a player.

[Kayi]

I'm not a huge fan of random votes as a way of starting discussion. They're funny and break the ice, but as someone mentioned, we all know they aren't serious votes.


Question:
Do you like it better when you play as Town, Mafia or a Third Party? And why?

[Mastin]

History Lesson: when I started playing, games required two IC's. This was later dropped to one IC and one SE, but to me, I always considered the SE to basically have the same role as the IC, if not even more important--the IC is what the players are supposed to eventually want to be. One does not have to be an IC after five games. The SE is who the players are supposed to SOON be, as in, show what they're supposed to play like in a few games. You're pretty much assumed an SE after a few. So, to me, that's a lot of pressure.
(Anyone know why my HR tags didn't work? :/)

---

A

warning

: I have--and always will--hate the RVS. So if the below seems a bit, well, too soon, it's just how I play.
Neruz starts the game voting for our IC. Now, I know it's the random voting stage, but voting for the person you're supposed to be learning from doesn't sit well with me. So,

IGMEOY

. ([SE] IGMEOY--I've Got My Eye On You. It's a weak, weak

FoS

--Finger of Suspicion. There's also

mFoS

, minor Finger of Suspicion, and

MFoS/ HoS

, which is Major Finger of Suspicion and Hand of Suspicion. IGMEOY is below mFoS in strength--it's basically just what it says: keeping an eye on them. We have one vote--a Hand of Suspicion is treated pretty much as a vote without voting, because you suspect them that much. Fingers CAN fill this role, but generally, a Finger is a secondary suspect.
At least, these are my definitions--any different ones from the other SE or our IC?
Keep this in mind, too--ICs and SEs aren't all perfect. We're only human, and we have our opinions. Exact definitions can vary from person to person. [/SE])

Kayi expresses agreement (I assume--is that what you meant), but does not back it up with a vote on Beefster--may I ask why?

Here are some questions that I find are often quite useful.

1) What time zone are you in?
2) What experience do you have playing Mafia?
3) How often do you anticipate you'll be able to post?
4) Are you male or female?

I believe I know how, but I'll ask just in case:

Why

do you find these questions often helpful, Trend?
Anyway, to answer:

1:

I live in the Pacific Time Zone. I believe that's GMT - 8 or -9, depending on DLST on or off.

2:

My experience is all on the old forum, before we upgraded. (I was a bit infamous, there. When we moved, most people had forgotten about me.) Most of my games can be found on my Wiki, though I never got them all in before I left. (I'm not exactly proud of them. See "infamy". I'd much prefer to have the prefix in there dropped. ) You have to replace the 'mafiascum.net' part with '67.222.17.61' to see them. I also played epicmafia extensively, and am currently playing a Werewolf game on another forum, my third there.

3:

Not at all on the weekends--I have no access, then. However, I currently have something like eight hours on Friday and four on Monday to make up for it. My weakest access day would be Wednesday--I can come on, but only for two hours. (Next week only, it might be only one, but only next week.)

4:

For some reason, people keep calling me a "she", despite what clearly displays on my profile the "Male". I'm a guy. (After all, we all know there are no girls on the internet. )

I've played a few games on another forum, this'll be my first here.

Might I ask which one? Might help me with my reads. (I'm a bit of an analytical player. I may have an unusual brand of it, but I like logic, and this can help me determine if you're town or mafia.)

VOTE: Trendall for being the first to confirm. Somebody's excited to play.

Might I ask why you think this? 'Cause when I do a random vote off of confirmation, it's the opposite for me. (Please don't use the advice in there. It's outdated. It can still be used in the RVS, but beyond that, it's useless.)

Vote: Kayi because you don't have a avatar

Now that Kayi does, Mujex, do you plan on keeping this vote?

and a couple of hundred games over at Epicmafia.

I

thought

I recognized that avatar! You were playing over there before, right? How long have you played, there?

Anyway, that's about it on my readthrough. I have a few suspects in mind, but I want to get some answers, first.

[Mastin]

Question: Do you like it better when you play as Town, Mafia or a Third Party? And why?

Town, oh so much town. I've been Mafia quite some number of times--if I had to guess, at least a dozen on this site. Know how many of those I won?
One. As an alt. With my partner saving me, when I was going to be lynched. And

he

was the

newbie

! (I was the SE, 'cause as an Alt, I couldn't exactly be an IC, and you're not supposed to fake being a newbie, even in an alt. Being saved by the newbie when you're the SE, and having that be your only Mafia win? Yeah, you'd hate being Mafia, too. )

Third party? Only been so once. It...did not go so well. I was the lyncher, and our mod, RC, was my target. I was faking my cop meta, but that attracted the attention of the Joat, who saw I was a lyncher and made this knowledge public...on day one. I needed to lynch RC on day two or later to win. Guess who was lynched on day one?

Town, however, I have had great victories as. Not *many*, but enough to make me like it a lot more than any others.

Also: note my title. I earned it. If you think my posts are too long, please tell me; I am an absolutely horrible judge of post length.

[Beefster]

Was the reasoning behind your random vote for me at the start of the day in any way serious?

Not really.

[Beefster]

Do you like it better when you play as Town, Mafia or a Third Party? And why?

VOTE: Kayi for this blatant alignment fishing question.

It's not much to go on, but it's more than nothing.

IGMEOU: Mastin

for answering it.

[Yenros]

Beefster, you forgot to unvote. Also, how is that question bad? The scum already know the alignments, so they wouldn't have to find out the alignments like town does.

Unvoting is nice, but unnecessary.

[Neruz]

*eyebrow* @ Beefster, i'm not seeing how alignment fishing in this game could be scummy, considering the scum know what alignment everyone is.

[Beefster]

I dunno, it seems like an off question to me in general. It's like the loaded "are you excited" question that I've never been a fan of. It's supposed to fish for power roles.

Good point though. I wasn't thinking of that.

Unvote

I'm stupid.

[Neruz]

Fishing for power roles is different than fishing for alignment though. I've always held that alignment fishing is primarily a third-party tell rather than a town or scum tell, on the other hand rolefishing tends to be a decent scum tell, although like all tells it depends on the circumstances.

[Yenros]

Seems to me that seeking alignments isn't any kind of tell. Town is trying to find alignments to lynch scum. 3rd party might depending on what their goal is. Scum are trying to pretend to scum hunt.

[Trendall]

Question:
Do you like it better when you play as Town, Mafia or a Third Party? And why?

I don't really like being a third party role, but I think I enjoy being town and mafia equally as much as each other. Mafia gives you a strong sense of satisfaction when you win, as you have managed to lie through your teeth for the whole game and get away with it. As town, it's great when you catch scum, because you've managed to outsmart somebody who was lying through their teeth.

I believe I know how, but I'll ask just in case:

Why

do you find these questions often helpful, Trend?

Post #29

I

thought

I recognized that avatar! You were playing over there before, right? How long have you played, there?

Yeah, I've been playing over there for two or three months now. I don't have the same avatar on epicmafia though. I usually switch between random pictures of Pokémon every now and again.

Vote: Kayi for this blatant alignment fishing question.

You're voting for somebody because they were 'alignment fishing'? Surely that's the whole objective of the game ? You find out whose alignment is the opposite to yours, and then you vote them off.

Beefster, you forgot to unvote.

Says in the rules that unvoting isn't necessary.

[Neruz]

Seems to me that seeking alignments isn't any kind of tell. Town is trying to find alignments to lynch scum. 3rd party might depending on what their goal is. Scum are trying to pretend to scum hunt.

Scumhunting is different from alignment fishing though, when scumhunting you're trying to work out if someone is scum or not, when fishing for alignment you're trying to get people to imply what their alignment is either directly or indirectly. Scumhunting tends to be active and aggressive, while fishing is more passive. Alignment fishing thus tends to be a third party tell in experienced games as the only people who want to find out what other alignments are, but try to not draw attention to themselves while doing so are usually any third parties (Cult, SK, Survivors). Third parties want to find out what alignments other players are, but they want to avoid drawing attention to themselves, both from the town

and

the scum.

[Neruz]

That's also why rolefishing is scummy by the way. Fishing, being passive, is relatively easy to deny and thus is a tool the scum like to use.

[Trendall]

I don't understand this. How would somebody's answer to what their favourite alignment to play as is possibly have any relevance to which alignment they are in this particular game? Plus even Kayi was 'alignment fishing', which I'm pretty sure she wasn't, then that can only possibly be pro-town, seeing as, as it has already been pointed out, mafia already know the alignment of each player. They're just innocent questions to get the game moving.

[Heather]

Just wanted to say sorry, was on vacation for a couple of days and couldn't confirm. Best of luck to you all, sorry for the inconvenience I caused.

No worries, Heather. We'll catch you next time.

[Kayi]

There wasn't just one motive behind the question. Yes, I wanted a mafia-related subject to get discussion going, and it sort of did. I have genuine interest on people's preferences and their motives, just to see if they resemble mine. And I think it's pretty obvious that the answer to my question could be a reflection of someone's style of playing. Once a role is assigned, our preferences can influence our way of playing the game whether we like it or not. If that's alignment fishing, then I can be accused of it. I've never seen this question used in a Mafia game though. I definitely wanted to try it.



To answer my own question, I like playing as town a lot better. The part of the game I enjoy the most is the whole suspecting/scumhunting thing, and that kind of goes away when I'm not town.