[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[jimfinn]

I would say that if the mafia can neither kill nor recruit (but may still discuss) on the night after a mafia lynch, town can still win.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Due to the recruiting aspect, I would say that the mafia should always have to kill one of their own, regardless of their numbers. Otherwise, it makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the town to win. So basically, it's a suicide cult where whoever submits the recruitment PM dies.

Because of the alignment change and lack of town power roles, 2:10 is probably the ideal ratio. Very swingy.

>.<
I forgot to put in there that if a Mafia member is lynched then the Mafia can not recruit that night >.<!

[Beefster]

Still, for the town to win in that case, they have to have 3 consecutive lynches (in essence), while the mafia only needs 3 mislynches at any time to win. With the consistent alignment shift, it's nearly impossible to lynch correctly even twice in a row.

It needs to essentially be a suicide cult. At a 2:10 ratio. The mafia needs 4 mislynches to win, the town needs 2 successful lynches to win. While this may sound unbalanced, because of the consistent alignment shift, it will be really hard to pin down the scum, especially without any power roles.

Throw in a few 1-shot cops. That should balance it out quite nicely.

So the setup would be:
2 Suicide Cultists (whoever recruits also dies)
3 1-Shot Cops (they also detect "fresh" recruits)
7 VTs

[drmyshottyizsik]

Still, for the town to win in that case, they have to have 3 consecutive lynches (in essence), while the mafia only needs 3 mislynches at any time to win. With the consistent alignment shift, it's nearly impossible to lynch correctly even twice in a row.

It needs to essentially be a suicide cult. At a 2:10 ratio. The mafia needs 4 mislynches to win, the town needs 2 successful lynches to win. While this may sound unbalanced, because of the consistent alignment shift, it will be really hard to pin down the scum, especially without any power roles.

Throw in a few 1-shot cops. That should balance it out quite nicely.

So the setup would be:
2 Suicide Cultists (whoever recruits also dies)
3 1-Shot Cops (they also detect "fresh" recruits)
7 VTs

I like it a lot, but the cops should not detect new recruits.
Also how about this as well
2 Suicide Cultists
3 1-Shot Cops (don't detect "fresh recruits")
6 VT's
1 Bomb(Die when recruited, but the recruiter also dies)(This will put town one up)

Also if the mafia recruits a cop, he keeps he ability so that they can try to find the bomb(They turn to mafia role cops)

[jimfinn]

Beefster, I was suggesting 2:10 with the recruit unless lynched and max size 2, as a modification. 2 conseutive correct lynches wins at any time.

[drmyshottyizsik]

JF- What about my new update?

[jimfinn]

the concept should be tried first in a game with less PRs, IMO

[bv310]

1 Cultist, 11 Town, after D2, the cult has to make one ritual sacrifice of one of their recruited members. Only the original cultist can recruit, and only he gets to choose who dies. He also has to choose a backup sacrifice. He gets an N0 recruit. Town gets one PR, the Cleanser, who is able to de-brainwash one cultist at night. The cult still has to make a sacrifice though, so if he is successful on the right cultist, then the backup is sacrificed instead. If his target is targeted for the recruit, it fails.

[drmyshottyizsik]

no that won't work because if the person recruited gets clensed then it's a town auto win, all he has to do is claim that he was recruited

[Empking]

no that won't work because if the person recruited gets clensed then it's a town auto win, all he has to do is claim that he was recruited

[mallowgeno]

Neutral survivors suck.

Feeling Lucky Open

Mafia:
2 Goons

3rd Party:
1 Converter (N1 must decide if they want to be sided with the town or the mafia. If he chooses to side with the mafia, he becomes a Stalker. If he decides to go town, he becomes a Doctor.)
1 Convertee (If the converter chose to become a stalker, the convertee becomes a town deputy (He will become a cop if the town cop dies). If the converter decided to become a doctor, then the convertee becomes a lawyer. If the converter dies D1, the convertee becomes a

neutral survivor

serial killer)

Town:
1 Sane Cop
7 Vanilla Townies

Godfather removed

Lawyer is able to make one of his mafia buddies appear innocent.

How about this?

I like the SK idea. I think I'll keep it. I don't think there should be a night 0 though.

[Herodotus]

Cooperation

1 Mafia goon
1 Mafia seer

1 Werewolf goon
1 Werewolf cop

2 Town bulletproof
2 Town scratchproof
8 vanilla townies

Mafia and Werewolves win together if they can eliminate the town.

I'm not sure if that's the right number of VT's to balance the game, but in the worst case for town, they lose night 3. In the worst case for scum, they lose on day 2 if both teams cross-kill and town lynches perfectly. But neither of those cases is likely.
Maybe the cops should have a head start.

---

Hitogoroshi, are you coming back? Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia should be run.

[Beefster]

I think you need about 12 VTs or some town PRs. Crosskills are less likely.

[Antihero]

Cooperation

1 Mafia goon
1 Mafia seer

1 Werewolf goon
1 Werewolf cop

2 Town bulletproof
2 Town scratchproof
8 vanilla townies

Mafia and Werewolves win together if they can eliminate the town.

I really like the scum investigative roles; not so much the last sentence, though.

[Herodotus]

The last sentence is the point of the game. It's a single scumteam divided into two parts, each with its own kill.

@Beefster:
I was thinking about a pair of vigs, one with a gun and one with a knife (allowing the -proof claims to be tested) but that's up to four deaths per night, which I don't like. Maybe a mason pair.
12 VT's plus the four original PR's seems reasonable, but I don't think there's much interest in 20 player open games.
Or maybe 2 lynches per day with the original numbers?

Another idea:
The scum and/or the bullet-/scratch- proofs could be randomly divided into either 2-2 or 3-1, like how F11 is randomly selected, i.e.:

Roll d4
on 1, there are 3 mafia and one werewolf (who can both kill and investigate on the same night)
on 2 or 3, there are 2 mafia and 2 werewolves as above
on 4, there is one mafia (who can both kill and investigate on the same night), and 3 werewolves

The same system applied to the -proof townies would make fakeclaiming a little better.

[Beefster]

I've been in an 18 player open game.

OR you could flip 2 coins for the semiopenness. Your choice.

[mallowgeno]

Don't Be Greedy

Both town and mafia must make a decision during the pregame. Do they want to become a power role? Or do they want to be a vanilla? Mafia consist of 3 players, town consist of 9 players. Both town and mafia have a budget that they cannot go over. If they do, all power roles are negated from said side. However any handicaps a side bought stay.

Town Budget=7 points
Mafia Budget=4 points

Town Shoppe:

3 masons=7 points
Vigilante=5 points
Bomb=4 points
Cop=3 points
Doc=3 points
Tracker=3 points
Watcher=3 points
Deputy=2 points
Nurse=2 points
Hider=2 points
BP=2 points
Roleblocker=2 points
Jailer=2 points
2 Masons=2 points (Will get a QC if at least one other player has chosen mason)
Friendly Neighbor=2 points
Double Voter=2 points
Lightning Rod=1 point
Vanilla Townie=0 points
Miller=-1 point
Voteless Townie=-1 point
Death Miller=-2 points
Beloved Princess=-3 points

Mafia Shoppe:

Rolecop=3 points
Strongman=3 points
Godfather=3 points
Busdriver=3 points
Roleblocker=2 points
Lawyer=2 points
Framer=2 points
Redirector=2 points
Mafia Goon=0 points
Traitor=-1 point (Doesn't know mafia, mafia don't know him. Mafia may try to recruit a player instead of nightkilling. If recruited, the traitor becomes a mafia goon)

[mallowgeno]

Mafia don't know each other until the purchases are over.

[gandalf5166]

That just seems.......... bad. Too much hinges on that one mechanic. Like literally, if mafia goes over their budget and town doesn't, the game could be near-impossible for scum to win.

[mallowgeno]

True...hmm...

[bv310]

I think that'd be a bit more interesting in a currency system. As the game progresses, put up puzzles or riddles for the players to solve, then give the first 3 some amount of the currency. Each night, they can spend it to buy a PR or save it for a better PR. Make the lower ones a One-shot, and the higher ones either multiple shot or unlimited.

If you actually want to, we could try doing this as a Large Theme instead of an Open. I'd be down to co-mod.

[Andrius]

Ok, I LOVE the idea of a Currency system.
I'd totally help play in/design a game with one, because I love strategy.

And I LOVE the negative points aspect. Though Hated Townies should be in there too.

I think you should start as a Mini. And if you don't do it I'll consider modding it. Perhaps with bv? *prod*

I don't want to plague the thread with little "vig should be higher/bomb lower" comments, but if someone wants to seriously work on it I'm down to help.

[bv310]

A Mini? I don't think you'd get the full interaction at 12 players.

[Andrius]

A Mini? I don't think you'd get the full interaction at 12 players.

True, but generally you start small and see how it works, then move up.
Ala Trader Mafia.

But yeah, if we go large let's try 16 or so first. Don't want to hit 24/28 and be UNSTOPPABLE. lol

[bv310]

Pffft. 24. We're going 75!