Mini 1079: Midnight Mafia- Game End

[Parama]

Nocase, I may be a troll at times, but I'm not a torll like you.
Also Slowsilver it's more that I'm trying to provoke some responses while also having some fun. More votes on me would be appreciated so I can tell you who all the scum are afterwards

[Nathanael]

I think that Parama is attempting to make an intellectual point into the true value and meaning of names, and especially usernames on the internet which really hold no value at all and thus can be changed and defaced as pleased by those who wish to change and deface names. The fact is that even though I'm slowsilver, I'm actually gold.

I am totally sure that were his intentions.

[Parama]

So Nathanael, I have a question for you: Do you think I'm scum, or not?
Also yes I said that wasn't my intention, your sarcasm is late to the party and I award you one Capt. Obvious point.

[Kanashimi]

Hello, everybody!

As usual, I would like to start the game with questions for all players:

1) How much experience do you have in playing Mafia?
2) What is the square root of an apple pie?
3) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as the town?
4) How many licks DOES it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?
5) How would you describe your emotional state coming into this game? Nervous? Confident? Timid? Ambitious?
6) Coke or Pepsi?
7) Do you prefer to lead or to follow?
8) Please describe your playing style, both as scum and as town.

1)MafiaScum: 1 Game [Newbie, Win] (1 week and a half)
DLG: 3 Games [100% Win] (About 8 months)
Epicmafia: 177 Games [50% win] (About 6 months)

2)Yes.

3)As both, as usually they're equally challenging.

4)Over 9000, probably.

5)Since i'm overly confident in mafia games, the fact that i'm feeling normal about this one may significate i'm not confident, but based solely on this game i would say, pretty normal.

6)Pepsi. Twist. And with a bit of Coke.

7)Lead. I usually can't trust citizens to make decisions. Hope here it's diferent.

8)I see what you did there.
Mafia: Try to hunt scum as much as possible during the day, catching any slips and informing town about it.
During the night i tend to reread the day and try to rolehunt.
Town: Try to hunt scum as much as possible during the day, catching any slips and informing town about it.
During the night i tend to reread the day and try to rolehunt.

[Kanashimi]

lol. Talks the one with the easy name.
Nat is fine.

Most call me Mitsy or Misty, so yeah XD

Can i call you Kira? ;3

[slowsilver]

As referring to my earlier post, one does not need permission when defacing names as these names are not true names, they are a mere reflection of one's inner wants and desires and fancies which can be distorted and diluted by other people surrounding you as much as by someone distorting one's name

[Zdenek]

As referring to my earlier post, one does not need permission when defacing names as these names are not true names, they are a mere reflection of one's inner wants and desires and fancies which can be distorted and diluted by other people surrounding you as much as by someone distorting one's name

Why did you post this?

[slowsilver]

Because that's my play style

[Netopalis]

Your playstyle involves pontificating about meaningless points?

[Zdenek]

Because that's my play style

I'll be more precise, what are you trying to accomplish?

[Kanashimi]

Hmmm..... In this game i'm totally in the mood to reveal my true playstyle, and that would be the one i use when i'm serious. I've noticed lots and lots of reaction, and i already have 3 fos'es, and towntells. Isn't life beaultyfull?

Also just a random thing refering to this quote:

You're seriously getting extremely offended by the fact that he is spelling your name wrong?

Honestly, i don't get really pissed about misspelling my name, and usually take it easy. But never, NEVER misspell my name in my rage days. Since there is absolute no way of knowing my rage days before i post, avoid as much as possible to misspell my name.
Try to live months after months people calling you Kanashima, Kashinami, Kakashi and Kamashami. Isn't that irritating Nathaneal?

~~//~~

Alright, now the fun-time is over. I'll start it stylish.

Vote: Netopalis

Justify yourself.

This is where it gets interesting. You said that Parama's action is anti-town and should be repreheended, but honestly the only reason why i think she shouldn't do it is because it won't work 99% of the times. You say newbie baiting is totally anti-etic, but if they aren't ready to take this kind of provocation/test in Mini, they should have never left "Road to Rome" page. So i think Parama action is justified. Also it happened to work in this specific situation - Nathanael never claimed his role, but somebody overly defended him, right Neto?
And then the snowball started roling. Nocase percepted that, and jumped in the train. However this wordless sticky-figure man failed to show what you guys were suppost to perceive yourselves; the game barely started, but the way it's going seem like we have a team already, and that would be Netopalis-Nathanael(with a possibility of horrordude going into this team). As teaming (or buddying, whatever you want to call it) is likely between mafia members, as no one would form a team without knowing if they are playing on their side, Neto and Nathanael gathered this people attention. Well, only two people attention, as Parama is the one being wagoned here, not one of them. At that moment i was still only checking reaction, and they couldn't be better.

unvote. vote: horrordude0215.

note: netopalis is still scum.

This happened as soon as horror voted Parama. That usually would sign teaming, but considering Parama reaction to Nocase actions, i would say unlikely. After that, Neto asked why the vote on horror, and got responded with a "Why do you think". In this two one-line senteces they both let something Clear; Nocase didn't liked horror's vote on Parama, and Neto didn't liked Nocase's vote on horror, and at this point the snowball got increased.
Nocase got his vote back on Neto, once the questioning started, and Neto didn't exitate to use it, as i presumed he would do:

You have switched votes 3 times in 3 pages and none of those have explanations.

As the wordless sticky-man known as Nocase failed to express himself (i know it's his playstyle, still not an excuse), Neto used it against him, making everyone believe his votes were non-sense and proofless, and that turned against Parama. We can still fix this mistake before Para get's at L-1 and get blitzed by Neto, using some sort of excuse such as:

"You failed to defend yourself. Sorry parama. Vote: Parama"

So what we should do now is vote Netopalis, for the following reason; If neto is indeed scum, we have the whole scumteam in the palm of our hands.

Also i have some personal requests to the following persons:

@Nathanael

Build up your defense, and tell who are your opnions about the game so far (that may include your fos'es as well if you wish too), as most of your posts were based on the misspelling of your name.

@Parama

Build up a defense as well, tell why we shouldn't vote you, and if you agree with my logic.

@Nocase

I don't care if you're crypto, nocase or baby jesus. Try to prove your point with more clearness, so that what's happening now don't happen further.

~~//~~

That concludes my WoT.
Yes, i'm the kind of player that writes WoT, so if you want to play with me you'll have to deal with it.
Want to see further opnions of every player about this, specially you, Kira.

[Nathanael]

So Nathanael, I have a question for you: Do you think I'm scum, or not?
Also yes I said that wasn't my intention, your sarcasm is late to the party and I award you one Capt. Obvious point.

Is there any reason I should think you are scum?

[Parama]

Kanas: There is no valid attack on me, so excuse me if I don't bother defending myself.

[Nexus]

I'd say pontificating about useless points only serves a distraction. As does attempting/succeeding in trolling someone about something that doesn't have anything to do with the game. Distractions are scummy.

Trying to decide about Parama whether he's doing it just to be obnoxious or if it is a genuine scumtell.

Slowsilver's posted a couple of times, but they've been fairly content free. Yes, I realise the irony, but idc.

Also,

semi-vla until Sunday evening. Something's come up.

Ok, posts have been made whilst this has tried to gone through.

I'm going to

vote: Parama

and

FoS: Slowsilver

Semi-vla noted
-Midnight

[Kanashimi]

@Parama
So you rather get lynched than bother explaining simply why people don't have to?

[nocase]

I don't care if you're crypto, nocase or baby jesus. Try to prove your point with more clearness, so that what's happening now don't happen further.

my point is twofold. first, neto is doing something that i know he has done as scum. second, i have a gut scum read on neto based on what little we've seen here.

there's no excuse involve in not giving an (immediate) explanation for a vote. it maximizes reactions and keeps scum on their toes. a great number—if not the majority—of mafiascum veterans recognize it as legitimate. you are in the wrong here.

i'm sort of baffled at why people are attacking parama. nexus, if parama is scum then his objective to appear pro-town and thereby survive until endgame. knowing this, tell me what he has to gain by being obnoxious. what's the scum tell?

[Parama]

@Parama
So you rather get lynched than bother explaining simply why people don't have to?

I see 2 RVS votes and 2 baseless votes on me. I am not worried about being lynched at all. In fact, I encourage all the scum to vote me.

[Parama]

Trying to decide about Parama whether he's doing it just to be obnoxious or if it is a genuine scumtell.
...
I'm going to

vote: Parama

and

FoS: Slowsilver

Hello, most passive post thus far! Nexus, why am I scum? Why is Slowsilver scum?

[Zdenek]

However this wordless sticky-figure man failed to show what you guys were suppost to perceive yourselves; the game barely started, but the way it's going seem like we have a team already, and that would be Netopalis-Nathanael(with a possibility of horrordude going into this team).
...
This happened as soon as horror voted Parama. That usually would sign teaming, but considering Parama reaction to Nocase actions, i would say unlikely.

I think you are probably seeing connections that aren't actually there or at least ones that would arise at the start of any game between players that are not necessarily of the same alignment. Also, my impression is that your choice of which ones to heed and which to dismiss is completely arbitrary.

[Netopalis]

Not a great deal of time to respond, but I wanted to make this point quickly: Calling for justifications for every vote is something that I do regardless of alignment. It's one of the best tactics for scumhunting out there.

[Nathanael]

@Nathanael

Build up your defense, and tell who are your opnions about the game so far (that may include your fos'es as well if you wish too), as most of your posts were based on the misspelling of your name.

First, I yet have to see what exactly I have to defend from. The only attack I can see is that Parama's stupid role-PM thing.

let's see...

1.)slowsilver: nothing much to comment on. But I would regard post 82 as a slight scum-tell. Arguing "that's my play-style" never really helps.

2.)horrordude0215: I find it legitimate to try and start a wagon early. nothing else there, so null-tell

3.)Kanashimi: I find post 89 to be total nonsense. You can't

explain why people don't have to lynch you

, that simply doesn't work. You can't defend yourselves from everything. Even town do scummy things. The burden of proof should always be on the attackers side. For the sheer effort you put into post 85 I have you as slight town-tell. It's good to get going at some point. However I think your analysis is wrong in most parts. I really did see not all the teaming you see. I could agree with your Netopalis-vote, but for totally different reasons (see below).

4.)Erinyes: nothing to comment on.

5.)Nexus: I'd say he is slightly scummy in my eyes right now. especially the line

"Slowsilver's posted a couple of times, but they've been fairly content free. Yes, I realise the irony, but idc."

doesn't feel like genuine scumhunt.

6.)Parama: While I do find him obnoxious, I didn't really find anything really scummy. The only thing I'd like to have explained better is the purpose behind post 8.

7.)Zdenek: I'd put him as slightly townis right now. First because his line "Parama, how did you see Nathanael's role pm?" (post 34) looks genuine. If he had been scum, he would have known that there was no way Parama's claim could be true. I totally agree with his post 93.

8.)Mitsuru Kirijo: Nothing really scummy or townish to note. What she says feels genuine, but I think she would post the same thing regardless of alignment. so null-tell

9.)bv310: Nothing to commento on. null-tell

10.)nocase: I do not see his playstyle as inherently scummy. I find it reasonable to not always disclose all reasons for a vote. But I think those reasons should exist and I think he should be willing to reveal them sooner or later. nocase, probably you should write those reasons down, however weak they are. I think I want you to proof they exist when you think secrecy is no longer appropriate. In that moment I also want you to explain why in this particular case it was better to keep those reasons secret.
I will decide on my evaluation of nocase as soon as I get to see what cards he is actually holding.

11.)Netopalis: As I already pointed out post 23 is crap. I can't believe you really believe what you are saying there. I have yet to decide whether you are trying to buddy up to Parama. I'd say slight scum-tell. I don't see the connection between him and me everybody talks about.

You're seriously getting extremely offended by the fact that he is spelling your name wrong?

Honestly, i don't get really pissed about misspelling my name, and usually take it easy. But never, NEVER misspell my name in my rage days. Since there is absolute no way of knowing my rage days before i post, avoid as much as possible to misspell my name.
Try to live months after months people calling you Kanashima, Kashinami, Kakashi and Kamashami. Isn't that irritating Nathaneal?

lol. you are aware, right, that you did in fact spell my name wrong?
Look. I have absolutely no problem if someone makes a mistake while typing or reads my name wrong or whatever. But I see no reason why someone would do that on purpose.

[Parama]

FTR: Effort is not a towntell. I can show you 2 personal examples of me putting a crapton of effort into a game as scum.

[Kanashimi]

Parama, you might want to be careful - you're skirting the quoting of role PMs rule. I'd really be disappointed if you got modkilled, since you're a good town player.

And why are you voting for Horrordude?

Some examples of the teaming. Sorry about the Neal thing btw.
Also, the point here isn't the team. I mean, it also is, but the main thing is how he is posting. He is using quick defenses and distracting people. That is the scummy thing. The fact that he is defending you does support the idea of him being scum, but mostly is to show some connectio between you three.

[slowsilver]

No, effort isn't a tell, but it does distinguish between those with roles and those vanillas. Vanillas at the start of the game have very little to go on and very little to look forward to, while a cop would perhaps put a lot of effort in to see some reactions from people in order to know who to investigate that night, and a mafia goon would put a lot of effort in to mix up the mixing jug as it were, vanillas just don't have that much to go on or do at the beginning of the game. It is later on with the analyses that things get more involved for everyone.

[nocase]

slowsilver, that's just not true. at all. whatsoever. a lot of us (e.g., myself) love playing vanilla townies for the minimalist challenge of scum hunting and therefore are very active at the start of the game. i seek reactions to figure out for myself who i think is town and who i think is scum. not all of us rely on investigative roles to do the work for us, even early on.

10.)nocase: I do not see his playstyle as inherently scummy. I find it reasonable to not always disclose all reasons for a vote. But I think those reasons should exist and I think he should be willing to reveal them sooner or later. nocase, probably you should write those reasons down, however weak they are. I think I want you to proof they exist when you think secrecy is no longer appropriate. In that moment I also want you to explain why in this particular case it was better to keep those reasons secret.
I will decide on my evaluation of nocase as soon as I get to see what cards he is actually holding.

i've already laid out my "cards" for both neto and horror. there wasn't much to it so there was no sense in holding out any further.

re: kana's last post. not fair to criticize neto for trying to protect parama from a mod kill. it was honorable of him regardless of his alignment. the more interesting bit is where neto calls parama a good town player. not sure if that's a slip. can't tell either way, but it made me raise an eyebrow. and if you have been paying any attention to neto you'd see him describe his policy of requesting reasons for votes on at least two separate occasions. it's definitely not buddying.