Mini 1082 (Guns and Ropes: Midland): An Unfaithful Ending.

[charter]

Well, I think everyone voting Gonnano right now will be confirmed town once he flips scum. After this last post, I think his buddies have no choice but to bus.

I think Moose is at maybe L-2, with no one else threatening to vote, Gonnano ain't even voting him, but wants Moose to claim because it will "improve his play". It doesn't get any more obvious.

[charter]

Oh wait, nevermind, I misread his post. But he's still scum.

[moose200x]

Oh wait, nevermind, I misread his post. But he's still scum.

wait u think im scum?

[StrangerCoug]

No offense, moose200x, but it lessens the impact of what I find wrong with gonnano right now.

I don't understand this, explain.

Even though it means the same thing for the purposes of what I'm talking about right now, I find that "not caring what happens to the VI" is a stronger case than "not caring what happens to moose200x" as you could be of any alignment. I posted what I consider the implications of calling someone a village idiot at #148.

[moose200x]

No offense, moose200x, but it lessens the impact of what I find wrong with gonnano right now.

I don't understand this, explain.

Even though it means the same thing for the purposes of what I'm talking about right now, I find that "not caring what happens to the VI" is a stronger case than "not caring what happens to moose200x" as you could be of any alignment. I posted what I consider the implications of calling someone a village idiot at #148.

No it's fine, I don't care. I suck, I know. But that doesnt make me scum.

[Mizzy]

If you aren't scum, moose, then it is your job and role to convince us that you are town. Get the hell to it.

[moose200x]

If you aren't scum, moose, then it is your job and role to convince us that you are town. Get the hell to it.

How the hell can I convinc you of anything? I have't done anything wrong.

[gonnano]

by calling moose200x a VI, you imply that you think he's town doing a bunch of anti-town things.

That's not my understanding of the term... https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lage_Idiot

LOL at the misunderstanding -- maybe I should be more careful with the word "claim"

[StrangerCoug]

by calling moose200x a VI, you imply that you think he's town doing a bunch of anti-town things.

That's not my understanding of the term... https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lage_Idiot

OK, but I hear it more often to refer to anti-town town.

[moose200x]

by calling moose200x a VI, you imply that you think he's town doing a bunch of anti-town things.

That's not my understanding of the term... https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lage_Idiot

OK, but I hear it more often to refer to anti-town town.

\
Waht if by being anti-town it helps town?



MIND = BLOWN

[Mizzy]

Here's how to play as town, moose:

1) Find scum.
2) State your case.
3) Vote scum.

#2 is the most important and when you do it, you must do it with solid evidence, good reasons, and helpful/insightful input.

[moose200x]

Here's how to play as town, moose:

1) Find scum.
2) State your case.
3) Vote scum.

#2 is the most important and when you do it, you must do it with solid evidence, good reasons, and helpful/insightful input.

I am better at anyalizng night actions than I am at day stuff. SOrry. I am trying tho. I just havent seen nehting scummy

[charter]

Oh wait, nevermind, I misread his post. But he's still scum.

wait u think im scum?

I was referring to Gonnano there. Your actions have been scummy, but my gut says you're probably town, and I'm still going with that.

[moose200x]

Oh wait, nevermind, I misread his post. But he's still scum.

wait u think im scum?

I was referring to Gonnano there. Your actions have been scummy, but my gut says you're probably town, and I'm still going with that.

If it matters at all, I HATE the cowboys.

[jimfinn]

I'm confused - how does win% even matter at all? That seems like a totally irrelevant idea to me.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You finally find yourself to experience tiredness, which was highly unexpected because you went to bed very early (8:30 PM CST to be exact). The diagnose for that factor? You suspect that it's because you have a cold, although you not convinced in the slightest that it's a reason for you to give up and go home. You had a job to do and you were very likely the only person who dared witness an event that other people would say it's nothing more then aggressive "adult" play.

For a few minutes, it seems the entire crowd had fallen in silence for no particular reasons. Could they have given up on the lynching idea and just try to let the authority take care of the problem? You thought about it, but just when you were about to say to yourself "Yes", a burst of anger from the crowds raged on, enough so that recording the eventful moments were necessary.

Saturday October 13, 2012

Just when I think something is going to happen, an entirely unexpected thing happens as well. The irony of life. My body has recently been drowsy, yet I have received more then adequate amount of asleep. I suspect that the cold is causing this, thought I am not sure it is the cause and leaving this scene because of a cold seems ridiculous, especially since this is a crucial event I am witnessing. But I have noticed a silence, a silence that I thought would soon mean the end of my journal writing. Then suddenly, town is now enraged at each other and pointing more fingers then before. The irony.

Vote Count #6, Day 1

Enigima (1): MacavityLock
LynchMePls (1): jimfinn
moose200x (4): Riceballtail, Mizzy, StrangerCoug, ProkhorZaharov
Riceballtail (0):
jimfinn (1): Enigma
Rabies (1): gonnano
Mizzy (0):
gonnano (4): charter, moose200x, Rabies, LynchMePls
charter (0):
StrangerCoug (0):
MacavityLock (0):
ProkhorZakharov (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (0): All have shown desire for blood

The deadline for Day 1 is on Monday November 22nd, 2010 at 6:00 PM CST.
With twelve players alive, it will take seven votes on a person to lynch.
Enigma is V/La until Sunday November 14, 2010.
So far, no one is due for a prod.

[charter]

I'm confused - how does win% even matter at all? That seems like a totally irrelevant idea to me.

Should we just lynch you now or are you going to start pretending to scumhunt and stop active lurking?

[moose200x]

I'm confused - how does win% even matter at all? That seems like a totally irrelevant idea to me.

Let's say I never won as town, ever. But i've never loss as mafia. Would you want to lynch me if you were town?

[Rabies]

gonnano

Well, considering that Enigma was voting for jimfinn, I find it odd that you would expect him to accuse jimfinn on the basis of what some other person said rather than what jim actually said.

This isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that the only thing he did was parrot. He could have accused and voted jim, but the fact that he didn't say anything else was scummy to me at the time.

You can't just order someone to have a groundbreaking new insight that no one else has thought of. Especially when the source material is two sentences and two votes. Like I said before, the point here is not to argue that Enigma is town. For all I know, you could be bussing him. The point is that you went after someone for a reason that sounded good but ended up not being a logical one.

So, this is your response to my accusation of white knighting? Distancing?

Also, why does it seem like you're selectively giving the benefit of the doubt to Enigma? My reason for voting isn't OK, but voting someone because of a disagreement over sarcasm is?

---

I am simply oblivious to the gonnano case. I'm all ears to what you think are legitimate points against him.

Are you okay with his vote or case on me?

I made it clear in my last post that my suspicion of Mizzy is very minor. The thing I brought up is the only scummy thing I see her having done and she's not worth my vote at this point.

Did I say anything about a vote? I called it "mud slinging," which is exactly what it is because I don't see what Mizzy did that's scummy (and you never tell us).

Can someone else please look at StrangerCoug's behavior this game and tell me if I'm crazy or not?

---

PZ

On that note, Mizzy hasn't talked about gonnano either. Why'd you single out StrangerCoug?

No, she hasn't; I didn't notice that before. That's probably because I'm keeping a closer watch on StrangerCoug, though, as Mizzy's other behaviors have seemed townish to me.

---

jimfinn

In a previous post, you placed charter fairly high on a scum rating list. I would still like to hear why you think charter is scummy.
For the record, I also agree with charter about your active lurking.

[MacavityLock]

I jumped in at the START of a bandwagon, I wanted to be a leader for once

Why do you care if you're early or late on a wagon? As town, if you think you've have a good case against scum, what does it matter when you join the wagon?

Let's say I never won as town, ever. But i've never loss as mafia. Would you want to lynch me if you were town?

Not really. It means you're more dangerous, not more likely to be mafia. It's someone to keep an eye on, not auto-lynch.

Now stop whining and play the game. Do you really not find anything scummy thus far?

----

I still think Enigma and jimfinn are best bets for scum.

jimfinn

In a previous post, you placed charter fairly high on a scum rating list. I would still like to hear why you think charter is scummy.

This is a good question.

Other possibilities: I don't like Prokhor's moose vote in 130 much. Also, RBT needs to show up and do stuff. I'm not particularly enamored of either big bandwagon right now.

@mod

, please check if the votecount in 165 is completely correct. Thanks.

[charter]

I don't think you're crazy regarding SC. However, I don't think I've ever seen him vote for scum, and I always suspect him on that, but I think I've always seen him as town, so him ignoring Gonnano is reassuring.

[jimfinn]

3 reasons against charter
1) The quicklynch joke
2) the way he started to wagon gonnano in ISO #5 felt rather funny also, like he was trying to appear useful without actually being useful
3) his declaration that policy lynching is protown makes me very suspicious - I can't say I've ever seen anyone argue for a policy lynch in honest protown good faith unless there was an imminent deadline

[Riceballtail]

moose's post seems to match up pretty well with the scumtell you describe in the quoted post (it didn't look like he made much of an attempt to hide it, either). Care to tell us why he didn't get even so much as an FoS from you? Or do your scumtells just not apply to people on your team?

I would rather

let other people

take care of lynching the VI. Honestly, it's going to happen eventually anyway because we can't afford to have him in the endgame, so I'm not going to waste my time with it while there are substantial things to talk about.

Reads: "I don't want to be on a mislynch".

Unvote
Vote: gonnano

@moose: Please answer my question. Why are you being so obstinate about it?

This post feels a lot like "I don't want to lynch my buddy".

FoS:LMP

[StrangerCoug]

I am simply oblivious to the gonnano case. I'm all ears to what you think are legitimate points against him.

Are you okay with his vote or case on me?

His case on you? What case on you?

I made it clear in my last post that my suspicion of Mizzy is very minor. The thing I brought up is the only scummy thing I see her having done and she's not worth my vote at this point.

Did I say anything about a vote? I called it "mud slinging," which is exactly what it is because I don't see what Mizzy did that's scummy (and you never tell us).

I

THOUGHT

that she said moose200x as "looking such a VI and not in the probably town kind of way" (she since corrected me—charter did that), and as I have discussed, to me part of the definition of "village idiot" is "town", so the offending part of the statement was a contradiction of terms to me.

[Enigma]

DISCLAIMER: I'm full of sarcasm. Don't take it for granted.

If you want it more obvious so you can recognize it, please kindly request it in thread.
Your's Sincerely.

Firstly, I've been doing exams and I've just finished. Then I spent a few nights drunk/hungover XD
So those trying to manipulate it into me not scum hunting, or would prefer to place their votes on me (which is completely useless to the town agenda because it generates no pressure and as a result no discussion) get some free scum points.

As most of you who are capable of reading am aware, I have posted crap all content. I pity you if you think you can get a read on that of me, because I can't even get a read knowing my playstyle inside out.
The time to do the "no scumhunting/active lurking" is NOT a few days into the game, and when the person in question has also posted V/LA and has it in his sig. Free hint: It's much more productive a few weeks down the track when active lurking/not scum hunting is a consistent behavior of said person.

I'm reading through this game chronologically, so be prepared for some repetition.

Enigma, if you're going to tell me that I've played with you before and I've seen you scumhunt, then I'm going to need to see you scumhunt

AGAIN

. Making convincing posts is more likely to get you a win (as either alignment) than whining and complaining about your experience with past games.

Pathetic excuse to put a vote on me. Game is in page 2. There are people who have posted 1 post in the game. HERPPADERPA they aren't scum hunting either. And for clarification, I actually do blame town for a few losses. Because you have to rely on a other idiots to win it when the time comes, and it happens that scum conveniently like leaving the idiots up for LYLO.
A win/loss ratio is a pathetic excuse to justify a non random vote. Obviously some people don't understand the concept of a team effort (there is no I in team).

I never argued that it was. My arguement is that Enigma's post reads like a piggyback plus absolutely nothing original, which seems to be what scum wants: to just go with the flow, conformity.

I'll try be more humorous/sarcastic/dent next time I get to an RVS stage with you.

My play style is like this, learn to love or hate it, it's not going to change.

I don't see a playstyle yet, I just see someone who isn't interesting in taking responsibility for his vote. P.S. There's no such thing as a RVS, every vote has a purpose, it's just a matter of figuring out what that purpose is.

Can anyone say mindless bandwagoing/piggybacking? Ohh wait I forgot, it's not a reason for a scum tell (see Rabies) unless it's posted in RVS. My bad. And I giggle that you genuinely think that all votes have a purpose. I would like you to go back and detail and explain the purpose of ALL the votes on page 1. It's going to be critical in the process of finding scum this game.

I think it's Gonnano, Enigma, and LMP/jimfinn. Gonnano and Enigma are probably buddies with how much Gonnano is going on about Enigma actually not being scummy, and Enigma with how he's doing nothing but being scummy. LMP has been ignoring most of everything, and it really stands out that he has no comment on these two. Jimfinn's first post is still pretty bad, but then Gonnano comes in and votes Rabies and keeps in on Rabies (I can see voting Rabies when he voted Mizzy, but after that, no).

I'd probably say I'm about 85% sure of Gonnano right now, Enigma is less than that maybe 50%, but Enigma has more votes.

unvote, vote Enigma

ITT: We see that charter is still sore that I hammered him last game.
Try and read my sig, it clearly states that I'm going to be V/LA. If you are that confident at finding scum at this stage in the game, I suppose all the scum better just quit right now. PS: you forgot to mention that you are mindlessly bandwagoning when voted me.

As a side note, Enigma never answered my quest for information but has posted a couple times since.

In response to your 40. I'm sure your little glimmer of why I have no town wins is obviously right.
1. Obviously RVS is not obviously over. It's post 40 and half the posts so far have been confirms. I voted the way I wanted to because I felt like it. Ohh and maybe because it was RVS also? I'm not going to attempt to justify a vote in RVS just for your self interest. Thanks.
PS: I don't know what RPOL is so I would assume I haven't played there. Why would you assume that?

I haven't commented on the Enigma business because it looks silly to me.

What about it looks silly to you? Do you know what Enigma thinks about anyone in this game?

Ohh you could only guess what I really think of half the people in this game. (You don't want to know actually and I'ld probably get mod killed if I mentioned even half of it).

Man, last game I was in, on page three I gave two reads of people as scum. One I said was 100% and one was 99.5%. Both were scum.

Pretty good stuff here man. It really makes your arguments more convincing. PS: What game was this? Surely not 1053.

Do you have anything to say about the jimfinn/charter/Mizzy/Enigma thing?

Shhhh. I'm scum hunting.

This seems intended to drive home the point that he is indeed scum hunting, which appears to be trying too hard to be town.
...
I also find it suspicious, despite his defense, that he refused to vote gonnano in applying pressure until he was called out for not voting him.

UNVOTE: VOTE: LMP

I hope you read my disclaimer at top of this post before you fail to notice obvious sarcasm again. It sees charter already pointed out your

poor choice

of wording.
I also wonder if SC views this as scum hunting. Because he so conveniently noted me out for not scum hunting (obviously I won't be scum hunting if I'm not actually reading the game), when just a few posts ahead, you have jimmfinn with his helpless posts with zero contribution to the game thus far. CONVENIENT HUH??

UNVOTE; VOTE:Moose

A wagon of victorious measures!

I also do not care for Gonnano.

Are all the white knights pro scum hunters noticing this? Or are they conveniently missing out on the play of RBT and his contribution to the game thus far?

I always scum hunt in my games. I'll just let other endure the insufferable pain of attempting to scum hunt with less than one page of content and do it when there is actually actionable content to act upon.

This is the second worst post. You're not actually hunting scum in this game and there's plenty of content to act upon. According to you, your vote on jimfinn was done as part of an rvs bandwagon. Was it a random vote? Are you happy with your vote?

Do I see you scum hunting on page 2 of the game? Stop being such a hypocrite. Better nominate yourself for some worst posts too. I'm going to assume that the questions you are asking are rhetorical hence me answering them would be obsolete.
PS: Are you implying worst posts have a correlation to being scum? You need to make that clear.

I think gonnano is not going to help town win and I feel a good policy lynch is in place. I'm ok if we don't lynch him tho.

1) Policy lynches are terrible in general and don't help anyone but scum.
2) Lynching someone because they are "not going to help town win" not only sounds too pro-town to me but it, like #1, is also frickin' terrible. That tells me that you don't think he's scum, but you still want him dead. Again, it only helps scum.
3) If you do find him suspicious enough to lynch, how could be okay with not lynching him without having a better candidate in mind?
4) You have yet to answer any of my questions and you have no exams for an excuse. Feels like dodging and not giving a damn about genuine townsfolk discussion.

In light of those points and the dense overtones of pro-scum sentiment in what you've been hacking up:

Unvote. Vote: moose200x

You do realize that you are pretty much voting him for being a VI (as a result of the reasons you stated). Is that a policy lynch of yours? Or are you just cleverly trying to disguise/manipulate it for your own agenda?

my list of the four you asked about plus my current vote, PZ:
On a scale of 10 uberscum to 1 obvtown
LMP - 7
moose - 6.5
charter - 6.5
gonnanno - 5
enigma - 5

A very original list right here. Does that mean players which have not gotten any negative discussion thus far are automatically town? Or is it just poor logic?
(Fucking charter please stop asking questions I want to ask)

Prodded. Past couple days have been very busy, sorry. Enigma and jimfinn are the right guys to look at. Not convinced about gonanno yet. Moose, stop trolling and answer questions. Content soon.

Exactly what do you want to look at? I'm V/LA with less than a few posts, jimfinn has posted crap all useful until a few posts just in front of you. Not much to look at really. Ohh btw now that I'm

no longer V/LA

active does that mean I'm automatically town? Awesome, thanks!

@moose200x - There is no such thing as a good bandwagon. Fake bandwagons do not generate pressure. It is failing, do something else.

Then why the hell were you not voting until just the post before?? Your vote had stayed on jimmfinn until then, and that was clearly fail. Ohh wait, you probably don't need to generate pressure since you are actually scum.

The last few posts on page 5 made me giggle IRL.

UNVOTE: LynchMePls

Let me take a closer look at moose200x before I decide to go for him or switch back to Enigma.

Have you been selectively reading all game? Or did you have to go back and read moose in ISO so you could come up with some reason to put a vote on him?
Ohh and I said I would scum hunt, maybe you should wait till when I'm actually back and see if I'm here that I actually do before using the same shitty reason to vote for me.

I think gonnano is not going to help town win and I feel a good policy lynch is in place.

UGH.

I think both moose200x and Mizzy are a bit suspect here. Village idiot = town, and responding to someone saying you're scummy by saying she's being mean is at best fluff.

In my opinion, it's a tossup between moose200x and Enigma, but I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: moose200x. Mizzy

MIGHT

be bussing moose200x, but my case on her is even weaker than my case on Enigma.

Refer to above quote. I think he went back to find a reason to vote him to make his vote look more substantiated. Ohh and I think you are bussing Mizzy. And what case? Mind sharing?

Here's how to play as town, moose:

1) Find scum.
2) State your case.
3) Vote scum.

#2 is the most important and when you do it, you must do it with solid evidence, good reasons, and helpful/insightful input.

Mizzy trying to coach moose, and obvious attempt to try and get some town credit gives me a scummy vibe about her. I don't even see why this post is necessary, moose has been on this site for a while and it's not like he is new at mafia, nor is this a newbie game.

I would rather let other people take care of lynching the VI. Honestly, it's going to happen eventually anyway because we can't afford to have him in the endgame, so I'm not going to waste my time with it while there are substantial things to talk about.

Same reasoning as to why I've skipped over most of Moose. It's been discussed and skewed around enough already. I read him as a VI taking this game very jokingly, nothing more.
And moose, at least I'm not comparing you to shotty or andrew94 and people as such. Now that would be mean.

Also, gonnano, the wiki is rubbish. Don't be naive enough to take it as gospel, it was probably written by some self righteous big headded scum hunter.

Nobody's lynching anybody just yet, so if you're town why don't you start being useful and hunt some scum? If you're trying, you're not trying very hard.

Associating scum hunting with being pro-town is a very dangerous path to take. Nor should that be used buy him a free pass from his current predicament.

If you aren't scum, moose, then it is your job and role to convince us that you are town. Get the hell to it.

And it is scums job to jump on the weakest bandwagon. It's town job to consider all possibilities, such as that the active lurkers: RBT and jimmfinn are scum.

I'm confused - how does win% even matter at all? That seems like a totally irrelevant idea to me.

Should we just lynch you now or are you going to start pretending to scumhunt and stop active lurking?

What about RBT? Or are you just ignoring him? Same for rabies.

I still think Enigma and jimfinn are best bets for scum.

So you think all the people who have posted the least content are scum? I mean can you even get a read on either of us? Because I sure as hell can't, which is ironic because I'm actually one of the players in question. Are you going to comment (not just ask questions) on either of the active bandwagons or you just going to delude yourself that I'm scum when I currently have zero content posts in the game.
Also answer the question above relating to RBT. Cheers.

---

Overall

I think that alot of the more active/stronger players (some of which are certainly scum for sure) are jumping on idiots in hopes of getting a easy mislynch. It also provides poor analysis the next day when looking at vote counts, because they can just say: I voted him because he was acting stupidly.

The fact that the game seems tunneled on moose is quite disappointing and will make looking for scum teams hard. I fell scum are using it as an opportunity to stay out of the spotlight and gain some town credit by attempting to scum hunt on some of the easier targets.

Just gut, but I feel that a good portion of the scum team are on the moose wagon. I don't know why goonana still has some many votes on him (or I might just be blind because I stopped seeing alot of discussion on him in the past few pages.)

Gut just tells me that either or both of Mizzy/SC are scum.
But I know that it is much more productive following out this feel than to lynch a VI on day 1, where the information gained the next day is limited.

Unvote

VOTE: Mizzy