Mini 1082 (Guns and Ropes: Midland): An Unfaithful Ending.

[charter]

Lynch Jimfinn, then?

unvote, vote Jimfinn

[StrangerCoug]

@mod, please check if the votecount in 165 is completely correct. Thanks.

This actually sends off scum vibes to me. Didn't notice it earlier. The fact that you didn't make an effort to go read back is scummy.

Oh, come the heck on. Alerting the mod to a possible error is a tell!? Your throwing crap to see what sticks is getting ridiculous.

UNVOTE: moose200x
VOTE: Enigma

[gonnano]

Also, gonnano, the wiki is rubbish. Don't be naive enough to take it as gospel, it was probably written by some self righteous big headded scum hunter.

When did I say that the wiki is always right? I was just trying to show that I had a different understanding of the term VI, and that it wasn't just some random meaning that I made up to defend myself. Also, I would appreciate it if you could stop with the condescending tone. Unless you really, really need to feel important, that is.

This isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that the only thing he did was parrot. He could have accused and voted jim, but the fact that he didn't say anything else was scummy to me at the time.

What I've been saying is that there was no other aspect of jimfinn's play to comment on, so the choices were to parrot or disagree. Therefore parroting isn't scummy in this specific case because there was nothing else to say.

So, this is your response to my accusation of white knighting? Distancing?

Also, why does it seem like you're selectively giving the benefit of the doubt to Enigma? My reason for voting isn't OK, but voting someone because of a disagreement over sarcasm is?

The sarcasm argument was a judgment call. There are arguments on both sides of that as to whether it is scummy or not. Voting for Enigma for agreeing with someone is not the same at all. If I recall correctly, I have been saying the entire time that this is a case against you, not a defense of enigma. You seem to be very interested in turning it into one, though, which I assume is because you want to deflect attention from yourself.

Now that Enigma is posting some content, I'm beginning to find him very scummy. Mostly because he seems to be saying that his lack of posting/ lack of scumhunting is just part of his playstyle and shouldn't count against him, where a townie would try to remedy the situation instead of giving excuses.
Before Rabies gets all excited and accuses me of distancing in response to pressure from him, let me reiterate that I have never said that I think Enigma is town, in fact I have specifically said that I was not considering him town or scum. This is enough to tip the balance. Plus, the scumtell he comes up with in 196 is terrible.

Charter

I'm trying to be careful not to let the fact that charter is accusing me influence my read on him, but I can't help finding him scummy. Take a look at this.

First, I don't believe he ever responded to this:

As I see it, the situation now is that I didn't think Enigma's post was scummy, so I voted Rabies for voting him. You didn't think Rabies's post was scummy, so you voted me for voting him. To me it looks like you're doing the exact same thing that I did,

which leads me to wonder if the same logic you used to say that I was Enigma's scumbuddy would also make you and Rabies scumbuddies.

and then we get these two gems:

Rabies is the most town out of any of you, so I am ignoring him.

Gonnano is STILL voting Rabies. It seems pretty clear to me that he A) has no interest in finding scum, B) has no interest in convincing anyone else to vote Rabies, C) is obvscum!

sounds a lot like "gonnano is voting my buddy, we gotta lynch him!"

and from Rabies:

While I don't agree with jim's conclusion that charter is scum, I think his thought is genuine.

I'm not sure what the purpose of saying this is, other than to bait charter.

I don't know about charter, but personally, I don't understand any of your reasons.

jimfinn
In a previous post, you placed charter fairly high on a scum rating list. I would still like to hear why you think charter is scummy.

For the record, I also agree with charter about your active lurking.

I'm happy with my vote where it is, and I'd appreciate thoughts from others about my case on Rabies.

On a side note, RBT's super lurking is starting to bother me and if I don't see some content I'll have to conclude that he is scum.

[charter]

sounds a lot like "gonnano is voting my buddy, we gotta lynch him!"

No, you haven't tried to convince anyone to vote Rabies, or even that Rabies is scum. No one but you has said they're suspicious of him. You are content for that to the the status quo, just sitting on the sideline, not ruffling any feathers, so that you avoid any suspicion yourself and don't get lynched.

On a side note, RBT's super lurking is starting to bother me and if I don't see some content I'll have to conclude that he is scum.

Taking a page out of Mizzy's book of poor reasons to vote someone. You've already made up your mind that he's scum and are now just waiting until either a wagon forms on him, or he lurks a little more and it's acceptable to vote him.

So obvious you are scum. WHY CANT I BE A DAYVIG?!?!? WHYYYYYYYY

[gonnano]

Taking a page out of Mizzy's book of poor reasons to vote someone.

and what is it about lurking and refusing to scumhunt that is a bad reason to vote someone again?

You've already made up your mind that he's scum and are now just waiting until either a wagon forms on him, or he lurks a little more and it's acceptable to vote him.

If he continues to lurk, it will be acceptable to vote him, because that would convince me that he's scum. Why is it scummy for me to say this but not for the others who have criticized RBT's lurking?

No, you haven't tried to convince anyone to vote Rabies, or even that Rabies is scum. No one but you has said they're suspicious of him. You are content for that to the the status quo, just sitting on the sideline, not ruffling any feathers, so that you avoid any suspicion yourself and don't get lynched.

My job is not to whine until people vote for Rabies. I've pointed out the things that I think are scummy about him, and if people agree with me then they can vote for him too. That said, I have felt like my case is being largely ignored, so...

@ everyone -- what is your opinion of my vote/case against Rabies?

So obvious you are scum. WHY CANT I BE A DAYVIG?!?!? WHYYYYYYYY

If it's so obvious that I'm scum, why is Rabies the only one who agrees with your case against me? Moose is voting me for because he thinks I'm a good policy lynch or something, and the only other criticisms of me have been in response to some answers I provided which were misunderstood and which I then cleared up.
(You can't be a Dayvig because that would put too much power in the hands of the mafia)

[Rabies]

Enigma

RBT is acting foolish, but my gut is telling me he's town (I now have that attitude about moose as well). I'm the least confident in my reads on them, though, so I think the best we can hope for is a vigilante or sympathetic serial killer.

---

gonnano

The sarcasm argument was a judgment call. There are arguments on both sides of that as to whether it is scummy or not. Voting for Enigma for agreeing with someone is not the same at all. If I recall correctly, I have been saying the entire time that this is a case against you, not a defense of enigma. You seem to be very interested in turning it into one, though, which I assume is because you want to deflect attention from yourself.

I have attention on myself to deflect?

It's also ironic that you talk about attention deflection. charter called you down on vote parking and now all the sudden you're advertising your case that's existed for a while?

sounds a lot like "gonnano is voting my buddy, we gotta lynch him!"

No offense, gonnano, but I think you're overestimating your credibility. If you are town and scum are riding your wagon, I think it has to do with the fact that you've made yourself a target, and not that you're some huge threat to them.

I do find charter to be the most townish person alive right now, I think that's pretty obvious, and I think anyone voting him is either not paying attention or scum trying to mudsling. There, I said it. What now?

---

StrangerCoug

What were you saying earlier?

@ everyone -- what is your opinion of my vote/case against Rabies?

[gonnano]

I have attention on myself to deflect?

It's also ironic that you talk about attention deflection. charter called you down on vote parking and now all the sudden you're advertising your case that's existed for a while?

Yes, my arguments against you would count as attention. You've been trying to turn them into an argument about me protecting Enigma. And I fail to see how I am deflecting attention by responding to charter's observation that people are ignoring my case by asking people what they think of my case.

If you are town and scum are riding your wagon, I think it has to do with the fact that you've made yourself a target, and not that you're some huge threat to them.

Made myself a target by doing what? The only thing I've done is put pressure on you.

@ charter

As I see it, the situation now is that I didn't think Enigma's post was scummy, so I voted Rabies for voting him. You didn't think Rabies's post was scummy, so you voted me for voting him. To me it looks like you're doing the exact same thing that I did,

which leads me to wonder if the same logic you used to say that I was Enigma's scumbuddy would also make you and Rabies scumbuddies

.

I'm still interested in a response to the bolded.

[Rabies]

Yes, my arguments against you would count as attention. You've been trying to turn them into an argument about me protecting Enigma. And I fail to see how I am deflecting attention by responding to charter's observation that people are ignoring my case by asking people what they think of my case.

Well, I fail to see how I am deflecting attention by responding to your distancing from Enigma.

If you are town and scum are riding your wagon, I think it has to do with the fact that you've made yourself a target, and not that you're some huge threat to them.

Made myself a target by doing what? The only thing I've done is put pressure on you.

You've put pressure on me? How so? Asking tough questions that I simply didn't have a response to?

If your idea of pressure is one vote from one of the leading suspects, your ego is much bigger than I thought.

[charter]

@ charter

As I see it, the situation now is that I didn't think Enigma's post was scummy, so I voted Rabies for voting him. You didn't think Rabies's post was scummy, so you voted me for voting him. To me it looks like you're doing the exact same thing that I did,

which leads me to wonder if the same logic you used to say that I was Enigma's scumbuddy would also make you and Rabies scumbuddies

.

I'm still interested in a response to the bolded.

There's nothing to respond to there. Your vote was bad and on a townie, my vote was on a scumbag.

[gonnano]

Well, I fail to see how I am deflecting attention by responding to your distancing from Enigma.
You've put pressure on me? How so? Asking tough questions that I simply didn't have a response to?

Oh, I don't mean that I've put a lot of pressure on you, just enough to provoke a reaction from your scumbuddy charter because he thinks he can get me lynched and he know's that I'm suspicious of you. By deflecting attention I mean that I said your reason for voting Enigma was scummy and you tried to turn it into me saying that Enigma was townie, thereby moving the argument from investigating your reason for voting Enigma to accusing me of buddying Enigma. The difference between that and what I did was that I responded to charter's accusation by explaining the reason for the behavior that he observed.

While we're speaking of unanswered questions, you should feel free to weigh in on the issue of whether the same logic that makes me Enigma's scumbuddy would also make you and charter scumbuddies.

There's nothing to respond to there. Your vote was bad and on a townie, my vote was on a scumbag.

So... you thought my reason for voting was bad and you voted me for it. I already went over that. In fact, it's part of the question.

Let's recap:
I thought it was scummy of Rabies to accuse Enigma for not posting analysis of content that wasn't there -- analysis that Rabies himself hadn't even provided. I voted for Rabies.

You thought it was unreasonable of me to vote Rabies for this, so you voted me.

Why is it that my reason for voting for Rabies is bad? Why is it that I'm protecting Enigma somehow, but you aren't protecting Rabies?

[Rabies]

Oh, I don't mean that I've put a lot of pressure on you, just enough to provoke a reaction from your scumbuddy charter because he thinks he can get me lynched and he know's that I'm suspicious of you. By deflecting attention I mean that I said your reason for voting Enigma was scummy and you tried to turn it into me saying that Enigma was townie, thereby moving the argument from investigating your reason for voting Enigma to accusing me of buddying Enigma. The difference between that and what I did was that I responded to charter's accusation by explaining the reason for the behavior that he observed.

This is the case? You're just repeating old crap from page 2; I guess I can see why your buddy StrangerCoug doesn't want to acknowledge its existance.

While we're speaking of unanswered questions, you should feel free to weigh in on the issue of whether the same logic that makes me Enigma's scumbuddy would also make you and charter scumbuddies.

You backtracked; charter didn't. That's a major difference.

Why is it that my reason for voting for Rabies is bad?

Burden of proof is on you to show why it's not bad.

[StrangerCoug]

@ everyone -- what is your opinion of my vote/case against Rabies?

I think it's kind of meh.

StrangerCoug

What were you saying earlier?

Define "earlier".

[charter]

Gonnano, take a poll to see if anyone but you thinks that I'm deflecting for Rabies because he's scum and you caught him. There's a reason why.

[gonnano]

What is it? Maybe we should take a poll to see who thinks I was deflecting for Enigma.

This is the case? You're just repeating old crap from page 2;

Actually that was a response to you wondering why I said that you were deflecting attention from yourself.

You backtracked; charter didn't. That's a major difference.

What backtracking have I done?

Burden of proof is on you to show why it's not bad.

I thought it was scummy of you to accuse Enigma for not posting analysis of content that wasn't there -- analysis that you hadn't even provided yourself. The reason that I thought this was scummy was because you seemed like you were trying to get a wagon going on Enigma based on bad logic that sounded good on the surface. Scum are looking for any excuse to accuse someone, and the fact that you used a very common scumtell -- piggybacking -- made it seem like you were trying to fit a scumtell to the situation rather than examining the actual motives of the players. As scum you would have no need to look at the motivation of a player; you would just be trying to point fingers. Unfortunately the scumtell you chose to employ wasn't such a good fit.

[LimMePls]

The fact that the game seems tunneled on moose is quite disappointing and will make looking for

scum teams

hard. I fell scum are using it as an opportunity to stay out of the spotlight and gain some town credit by attempting to scum hunt on some of the easier targets.

Why do you think we should be looking for scum teams (plural)?

FOS: Enigma

Why do you think looking for scum teams (plural) is much of a problem other than balance?

FoS: LynchMePls

Because someone who posts showing that they have information that makes multiple teams more likely in a mini, reads like inside information that would only come from scum. Am I insane, or is this not simply obvious? How would enigma know that there are multiple scum teams?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, can you confirm this error and edit?

That was a simple mod error from my behalf. I have already edited out the mistake.

[moose200x]

The fact that the game seems tunneled on moose is quite disappointing and will make looking for

scum teams

hard. I fell scum are using it as an opportunity to stay out of the spotlight and gain some town credit by attempting to scum hunt on some of the easier targets.

Why do you think we should be looking for scum teams (plural)?

FOS: Enigma

Why do you think looking for scum teams (plural) is much of a problem other than balance?

FoS: LynchMePls

Because someone who posts showing that they have information that makes multiple teams more likely in a mini, reads like inside information that would only come from scum. Am I insane, or is this not simply obvious? How would enigma know that there are multiple scum teams?

Dude I think you are right man. I think you doen found us a scum! P.S. Is there usually multiple teams?

[Enigma]

SSBF, can you confirm this error and edit?

That was a simple mod error from my behalf. I have already edited out the mistake.

Thanks for clearing that up. I just assumed that you said there was no error and that MacavityLock was flaffling about.

I probably over exaggerated the point I was trying to make, but the base issue I was trying to get across was that Macavity is doing an awful good job of staying out of the spotlight by focusing nearly all his attention on people who aren't here, and as a result noone has really acknowledge him and given him any pressure that he deserves.

I come in here with guns blazing and all of a sudden hes jumped in and started getting pretty active/defensive. I conclude that he has pretty much just been reading the game, but refraining from posting until anything has been directed at him.

@LMP, it's a figure in speech that you obviously blowing way out of proportion.
And I'll say it again, a viable strategy in later game is looking for scum

teams

and connections between players once flips are known.
And lol @2 scum teams in a mini normal. Third party maybe not that common, I don't think I've seen 2 scum teams in any games I've read so far.

[Riceballtail]

Well, a second team is technically possible. It's just extremely rare. I'm actually starting to see some good (read:scum) connections here between Moose and LMP.

[Enigma]

I find that interesting that noone is really commenting on my Mizzy observations.

[charter]

RBT is now officially an active lurker, scum points come along with that title.

I did comment on your Mizzy observations, I think you have something. But I think there's bigger (and easier) fish to fry with Gonnano and Jimfinn.

And yeah, it's pretty obvious what Enigma meant. And plus, there's multiple scum teams in mini's (not often, but sometimes).

[Mizzy]

Oh shit, try to have one day of a weekend to yourself, and the thread fills up. Today will be a busy day at work but I hope to catch up at some point, if not I shall when I get home.

[jimfinn]

SSBF, can you confirm this error and edit?

That was a simple mod error from my behalf. I have already edited out the mistake.

Thanks for clearing that up. I just assumed that you said there was no error and that MacavityLock was flaffling about.

I probably over exaggerated the point I was trying to make, but the base issue I was trying to get across was that Macavity is doing an awful good job of staying out of the spotlight by focusing nearly all his attention on people who aren't here, and as a result noone has really acknowledge him and given him any pressure that he deserves.

I come in here with guns blazing and all of a sudden hes jumped in and started getting pretty active/defensive. I conclude that he has pretty much just been reading the game, but refraining from posting until anything has been directed at him.

@LMP, it's a figure in speech that you obviously blowing way out of proportion.
And I'll say it again, a viable strategy in later game is looking for scum

teams

and connections between players once flips are known.
And lol @2 scum teams in a mini normal. Third party maybe not that common, I don't think I've seen 2 scum teams in any games I've read so far.

2 scum teams is explicitly mentioned as acceptable in the guidelines, but it is indeed rather uncommon. On the other hand, what sort of privileged mafia information might lead a mafioso to think there are two scum teams? Only having one partner could just as easily imply a SK, and there would be no connections to look for to expose that.

[LimMePls]

Well, a second team is technically possible. It's just extremely rare. I'm actually starting to see some good (read:scum) connections here between Moose and LMP.

Yes its rare, that's the whole point. Why would enigma say teams when multiple teams in a 12 man game is rare? That's the whole point! It looks like inside information.

Your Moose/LMP scum team theory is hilarious. Do you plan on actually contributing to this game, or popping in every 48 hours to make idiotic statements?

[Riceballtail]

Your Moose/LMP scum team theory is hilarious. Do you plan on actually contributing to this game, or popping in every 48 hours to make idiotic statements?

Why else would you unvote him at L-2 after his huge AtE?