Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Elmo]

(I'm happy with how my Lrdwhyt and Elmo votes turned out)

Back to lurking!

[I Am Innocent]

Why don't you and I Am Innocent both try a thought experiment? Maybe close your eyes, pretend for a minute you've just received a PM from Zachrulez saying that Percy is an innocent child. Now reread Percy's ISO, knowing that he's confirmed town. See if you still suspect him, or if evidence for his innocence pops up. Even if you don't change your opinion, at least you'll know you're being objective.

Mina, I was

completely

wrong Day 1 Phase 1. I thought Oso was scum, Dry Fit was town.

So when the Day 1 Phase 2 started, I did a complete,

objective

reread with the only knowledge I had was my role, and Dry Fit's Scum role.

My conclusion, Nikanor and Percy were the likely scum team. Not much has changed that since I have read. It has actually been reinforced by what I have seen the last two phases.

I Am Innocent, it is taking me a lot of willpower not to be very mean right now. You are very lucky that I'm not Benmage.

Why you are voting for Baby Spice and not Lrdwhyt? Is it just because Benmage is voting for Baby Spice?

I understand why my tunneling can be frustrating, so if you need to mean to me, I can take it...

As for your direct question, I see both as equally scummy/townie. Meaning they fall in a group of 4 players that are not Percy/Thor that I do not feel like I have a town read on.

I think the math shows we have 6 mislynches before we lose, so if I cannot get a Percy/Thor lynch, the next best thing to do would be to take someone in that list of 4, and if I can at that same time make Percy/Thor look bad if a town flip occurs, all the better. And look how jumpy Percy got recently, so I think it is working!

[Benmage]

It's not deflection, it's pointing out how silly the question is to begin with.

How many mislynches will I "allow"? First off, I'm not sure that I'm the sole force that dictates who is lynched and whether that lynch is a mislynch or a scum lynch.

Second, the basis of your argument for how we're mislynching is based on a belief that Percy is scum and that BS is town all while you vote BS which is just three kinds of silly.

Therefore, at the very least, if this is a mislynch and it's bad that I'm allowing it then it must be equally culpable on your part for supporting/allowing it as well. I was curious to see how you'd respond to the question which is why I basically turned it around and fed it back at you, and your basic answer was 'deflection' and 'as many as it takes' so how about we consider those my answers as well.

The question is not silly. I'm asking how many times would you, would anyone, follow someone's lead suspect if they continuously flip town without begging the question of the person you're following alignment. Why can't you just give a number? Is it 1, 2, 3? I know If I was following someone I had real strong town read on, but lead town down 2 wrong lynches I'd be taking a strong reread of the person.

My vote on BS makes complete sense.

There's a whole lot of fodder VTs out there. Killing some off that Percy names as scum I think will benefit in the eventual lynching of Percy. I think it makes the case that he is scum, much stronger. You will see the light yet.

So when I say I'd support Percy's mislynchings in the hope that town would finally wake up, the most extreme example of this would be the town stupid enough to follow Percy on what....6 mislynches? All the way to lylo.

If you're now saying you'd follow Percy for 6 mislynches and than wake up.... WOWZERS!!! Am I correct here?

[jasonT1981]

slowly getting back on my feet.. got diagnosed with food poisioning and a burst blood vessel. Not as serious as I thought but still groggy on it...

Seriously shocked at Percys attempts at derealing the BS wagon at -1... I know he says its a 24hour thing but it seems more like scum getting cold feet on lynching his partner. I don't buy his reasons for it one bit. If anything it indicates more Percy is likely to be scum with a BS lynch. I would go as far as saying on the seere likelyhood BS flips scum Percy is an automatic policy lynch. We need to lynch him by the end of this day phase.

[Percy]

Got stuck writing a review for one of Vi's upcoming games, and it ate all my mafia time. It's waaaay too late for me to get together a post.

Tomorrow for sure!

[Sotty7]

Percy and I are the two most experienced people here, true or false?

False. Hi.

Also, hammer time.

Damnit Sotty…that’s what I get for posting from my phone. Why have we never played together?

Last man standing?

I don't blame you for not remembering, I was killed night one before I could shoot anyone in the face My biggest mafia regret to this day.

= = = = =

Yo Baby! Percy unvoted you when you were at lynch -1, using your logic that makes him your buddy right? Oh wait, it's not scummy at all? You don't even mention it once?

Hrmm...

= = = = =

Mina, after reading post 812 I was ready to fall in mafia love with you. But you ruin a good thing with post 813. Broke my heart...

@Sotty: My reason was that Baby Spice put the third vote on LrdWhyt I

suppose

I could concoct a conspiracy theory in which she was bussing LrdWhyt and preemptively setting one of us up as his buddy, but it just looked really weird and convoluted for a scum gambit. I wouldn't die of shock if she flipped guilty, and I kind of see Locke's point that setting contingencies based on the lynch is scummy (it's so much fun as scum to link your partner to every group suspect in existence). But meh. I guess I'm not really feeling it. She doesn't seem to be opportunistically tailoring her opinions to suit the masses.

Okay, fair enough if you're “not feeling” Baby as scum but reading this little block of text I see no reason for you to be fighting the Baby wagon like you are. You are actively derailing a wagon on a player who you admittedly have at least a slight scum read on. Why exactly?

I understand the Benmage thing.
I understand the furc thing.
I understand the IAI thing.

But in a mountainous game like this, where we get two lynches a day, you shouldn't be fighting a lynch as hard as you are unless you are convinced that player is town. Clearly you aren't convinced about Baby. It's like you want it all ways possible.

Baby looks scummy
People on her wagon are scummy
People off her wagon are scummy.

Seriously? Pick a side. Unless you have a legit case as to why we

shouldn't

lynch Baby today then you shouldn't be trying to derail this as hard as you are.

Why am I panicking?

1) Force of habit. I always second-guess myself at crunch time.
2) People should not be using lack of time and desire to get making compromise votes on Baby Spice instead of pushing a player they suspect more when we have time to reach a consensus. I mean...seriously, you have no problem whatsoever with Benmage's, IAI, and Furcolow's votes?
3) Furc's recent posts have looked so opportunistic and conscious of popular opinion that I'd rather that Furcolow and Lrdwhyt were the lynches. So I'd prefer we lynch LW right now, and then we move onto the next phase, in which I push Furc over Baby Spice.

1] Me too. But experience has taught me that sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and jump over that cliff already. Considering the set up of this game with the double lynch, I think the town can afford to play a little lose here.

2] I don't have any issue with furc's vote. It's how he is.

Benmage and IAI's votes do look suspect on face value. Both are voting for someone they believe is town out of spite. However, I still have a strong town read on IAI because I have seen scumIAI and this is totally different. He does earn a couple of scum points for the reasoning to his vote but not enough for me to abandon this read.

Benmage is town right now mostly because of Dry-Fit. How likely do you think that was a bus?

I resevere the right to change my mind, but this is where my head is at right now. Their votes a terribad, but Baby is probscum. I'll take it anyway I can get it.

3] I thought you had experience playing with furc before? I wouldn't exactly be against a policy lynch of furc, but lets not pretend that it is scum hunting.

Sotty, question. Why do you find Baby Spice's cognitive dissonance scummy and not Furcolow's? Also, do you think that Furcolow's play is similar to his town or scum meta?

First off I never classed anything Babyspice did as

“cognitive dissonance”

. I don't like the fact you have, in essence, paired my case against Baby up with furc now. Clearly Baby and furc are not guilty of the same exact things, otherwise I would be pushing on furc too.

I'm old school. I don't use phrases like cognitive dissonance or cognitive bias or whatever. I scum hunt mostly on gut. If I see something off, I question it, I try and figure out posts motivations and develop a reasoning. I'm logical to a point, but I try not to over think. My scum hunting abilities are a result of all the games I have personally played in and experienced. I don't need to justify it anymore beyond that.

All furc has done is be himself. In that he changes his mind in a blink of an eye. Make a case on him and maybe I'll listen. Right now I don't have an issue with him. Would I want him in LYLO... Probably not. Although I do hear he has a good lylo record (unless I remembering someone else)

4) I'd rather everyone took a stand before the lynch.

Now this I can give you. In my opinion, it is your only legit point you have for stalling the Babyspice lynch.

Your turn. What's the rush for someone to hammer right away, Sotty? Why don't you want more discussion?

I have already said why.

But I have no issue waiting for everyone to weigh in. After that, I will be calling for the lynch again.

= = = = =

^^^^^Wow scummiest post of this century. This is Lynch 1. Even if it goes through quickly, why/how would it affect your read on Lrd?? You’ve been pushing BS for 2 days. You should be jumping up and down and ecstatic about your 2 day lead suspect being lynched for whatever reason that have convinced others.

I'll preface this by saying that a lot of Mina's last post to Benmage resonated with me.

That said...I actually think Benmage has a decent point here. Earlier in the same post Percy was talking about how long and solid he has been on BS and now that the wagon is finally getting some good steam under it he wants to unvote to re-read LrdWhyt? Something is a little odd with this.

I pretty much agree with this.

= = = = =

slowly getting back on my feet.. got diagnosed with food poisioning and a burst blood vessel. Not as serious as I thought but still groggy on it...

Seriously shocked at Percys attempts at derealing the BS wagon at -1... I know he says its a 24hour thing but it seems more like scum getting cold feet on lynching his partner. I don't buy his reasons for it one bit. If anything it indicates more Percy is likely to be scum with a BS lynch. I would go as far as saying on the seere likelyhood BS flips scum Percy is an automatic policy lynch. We need to lynch him by the end of this day phase.

Do you find me scummy for unvoting Lrd when he was at lynch-1?

[Sotty7]

Mina is expanding more effort to defend Baby than Baby is herself.

I don't understand why that is.

[Benmage]

Baby is bad at this game.

I like that you don't like mine and IAIs votes but like the end result regardless. Which is what Percy should've been like X10 but isn't ....bewildering.

[Benmage]

And I've tried hard to erase last man standing from my memory bank a traitor on a Mafia team should be marked as bastardly.

[Sotty7]

And I've tried hard to erase last man standing from my memory bank a traitor on a Mafia team should be marked as bastardly.

Fair enough.

All I know is that if we do get a Baby lynch and she flips scum like I expect I will be reviewing my reads on both Percy and Mina.

[jasonT1981]

@Sotty... No, I don't think your unvote was scummy.. I didn't fully buy the case on Lrd and don't see you as scum, the Percy unvote seemed like desprate scrambling from scum buddies getting cold feet at a lynch. Considering both are heavy suspected thats what peaks my attention.

[I Am Innocent]

Benmage and IAI's votes do look suspect on face value. Both are voting for someone they believe is town out of spite. However, I still have a strong town read on IAI because I have seen scumIAI and this is totally different. He does earn a couple of scum points for the reasoning to his vote but not enough for me to abandon this read.

Reread Post 776. Never had a town read on Baby Spice.

My vote for her is because I do not see a lynch on my Top 2 (Percy/Thor), and I see BS as equally likely to be scum as Lrdwhyt, Mina, Furc. So instead of picking a name out of a hat from these 4 players, I threw caution to the wind and picked BS because if she flips town, more fire will be added to the fires of My Top 2, which is very good if I am right about them.

[Baby Spice]

If I understand this right people are voting me because (In no particular order);
A: They think I'm town and want to use my flip to implicate Percy.
B: They think I'm Percy's scum buddy and want to use my flip to implicate Percy.
C: I wont vote Percy who they think is scum.
D: Voting Mongoose.

For gods sake take a step back people and look at yourselves. Reguardless of what you think of me, the confirmational bias that is on almost every vote on me is staggering.
The only person who does not seem to be suffering from that is Percy, who unvoted when you guys laid all that crap on me.


Sotty. Your original vote on Lrdwhyt stank of fake along with that arguement with mina, which is what made your unvote terribad. Bens vote on Percy has never seemed fake. It only looked hinky when (mistakenly) combined with yours. Percys vote also has never looked fake, and quite franky as I said above the wagon on me stinks of bad reasoning/linking. You Sotty be the apples, Ben and Percy be the oranges.

[Furcolow]

EBWOP: @ BABY SPICE

When you say things like "The only person who does not seem to be suffering from that is Percy", you really expect to not be connected to him? You made me seriously re-consider my entire post.

After seeing this post, I am completely fine with your lynch, and kind of feel bad I am starting another wagon. Perhaps I will hold off on Kaleidoscope until the 2nd lynch period or tomorrow. I'm going to say it now, if I can hammer you, baby spice, I will.


@sotty if i don't get LYNCHED in lylo i have a good record
if my actions have been "detrimental to the town to the point where i 'deserve to lose if i'm town'" then the town usually loses with me. If, however, people overlook my faults, are objective, and try to realize I'm not as much of a VI as I come across then I do have a very positive experience from my games in lylo.

I know I have many faults. I'm guilty of OMGUS, WIFOM, Ad Hominem, and unintentionally strawmanning. That's just the tip of the iceberg, also. I'll vote someone with little to no reason, explain why I'm doing something in a way where I paint it as if there is no fucking way scum or "my partners" would ever let me do that (such as voting no lynch day 1), attack my attackers, or simply miss questions directed towards me in a post that gets me heated. The latter is probably due to me wanting to respond to something specific, as opposed to me wanting to not respond to something specific. I know you all have faults with my play, but for this game, get over it. All but 2 of you are scum, and I'm in that group, so lynching me is a mislynch and I am not going to stand for it. I am not going to stand by and allow this town to keep lynching VIs if they are mislynches. BabySpice, however, could be another story. Scum can be VIs, too.

With me, as with most people who have been playing less than a year, you need to be objective. Sotty's recent post really characterized me well. I am a Pisces, so I am very emotional. It carries through to my mafia play. I take mafia very, very seriously. Almost too seriously for it to be fun in a competitive atmosphere or environment. If I'm sitting out back on my screened-in-porch, with 4 friends, however, I can draft up a quick little game for us to enjoy that I don't take

too

seriously.

I am not as much of a VI as people believe. Last semester of college, for instance, I had 4 classes and got 4 A's. Sure sounds like a village idiot there. I'll be the first to admit I can do stupid shit, don't get me wrong, but I am actually a very smart guy who can tunnel on scum in lylo and win for the town. With 6 mislynches, I guarantee I can pick half of that as people who are, in my opinion, worse than me:

Kaleidoscope: What is this kid, the king of one liners? Go read his iso. Seriously, go. Read it now. It is a fucking JOKE.
LrdWhyt: although kingdavid had me all over the radar, I am fairly sure this guy is lurking. He checks in once every 4-5 days, and we haven't heard from him in about 3. He has one good post, but it occurred a week ago.
BabySpice: I'm not even going to talk about this one

I will also summarize what I feel to be the cases on a few people:

Thor - I disagree with this case, and I will start off with it thus so. From what I've seen of Thor's play, this is him playing as a townie. He is somewhat floundering under the pressure of IaI and BM, but he is actually actively responding to everything that is being thrown at him in the way he would do so as town.

Percy - I'll have to wait and see what he contributes tomorrow before I give my .02 on him.

Elmo - I agreed with this at first, and sheeped Mina's post, but I guess that only made Mina incorrectly suspect me so I'm going to back off. I've also skimmed his iso a few times, and he looks very town to me. Take that with a grain of salt.

My Vote

I am going to play my vote on Kaleidoscope. Sure, we don't get a lot of information out of it, but if you just look at how little he has contributed to the town you will understand why I am being a man and placing a vote down on him. I advise you all to follow me on this, as I am fairly certain that he is lurking scum. I am not sure who the remaining one would be, but just lynching 1 would be enough for me!

VOTE: kaleidoscope

[Benmage]

Furc, kscope, wont be today's first lynch. Sorry. So your vote if town is better used elsewhere ....keep him as your #1 suspect. Sure. But utilize your vote more effectively please.

And baby spice. Many people find you and your actions scummy. Most for weak attacks on me.

[Furcolow]

1) You are not confirmed town. There is this little thing called bussing.
Why should I vote baby spice?

2) "IF TOWN" are you fucking kidding me?

3) I'll do whatever the hell I want, Benmage


Did you read my post or read Kaleidoscope in iso?
his iso is terrible. I really don't believe you read, benmage.

[Benmage]

Furc, remember when you said you were new. Well I am experienced and kscopes play has not been telling of his alignment.

That's why he's not the first lynch for today. I'm not saying he's confirmed town or for you to ignore him. I am only saying he's not lynch one.

So ya, fix yoself.

[Benmage]

And I know you don't believe that I don't read and that is your poor emotional rollercoaster, or whatever you wanna call it talking....cause I pick up on everything. And you know this.

[Elmo]

KScope's iso is always terrible, unfortunately.

Also extremely unimpressed that you are also pairing me with Lrd like your BFF Baby. But at least your voting the right way round unlike Babyspice.

I'm not sure why that is. I think he's definitely scummy and you're sorta free-floating on my list, right now. I haven't found anything that looks associative between you, but I can't think of a good reason this isn't plausible. Why are you unimpressed?

No, I'm voting Babyspice for pushing scummy logic. Jason's slip wasn't a slip and therefore

wasn't

scummy.

That is not the defence of Jason that I quoted, though. You said:

He has a tendency to get into trouble like this because he tends to play on emotions and will just knee jerk to everything. As scum he is much more composed.

and I do think that is a very plausible explanation for at least parts of her play, in particular her stance on Benmage. I am not calling you out on a double standard, but I do think it's odd that you don't appear to have even considered this; in particular

I see no reason to attribute Babyspice's actions as VI over scummy. But as I think your question over, I guess I have no hardened reasoning why. I find her moves scummy and not stupid.

that, and as far as I can see, don't seem to find it an important thing to think about.

I really do think that it's odd that you don't have this train of thought if you're town. Why do you think it's scummy and not stupid?

Lrd's vote on Elmo is awful it does not count as scum hunting. Benmage's push on him is good in that respect.

Would you like to see a Lrd lynch in the second part of today?

I am still hugely behind and will be semi-lurky for a while longer.

[Furcolow]

Furc, remember when you said you were new. Well I am experienced and kscopes play has not been telling of his alignment.

That's why he's not the first lynch for today. I'm not saying he's confirmed town or for you to ignore him. I am only saying he's not lynch one.

So ya, fix yoself.

how about you fix yourself? a

true

policy lynch, to me, is not someone who is obvious like me
it's someone who lurks like kscope
d2 is perfect to lynch him, and there is even a lynch between me and you to see how this guy flips
if he flips red, you're lynched next
if he flips green, policy lynch me and let percy fry when i flip green
problem fucking solved

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

yeah, but unless you have statistics, lurking is not a scumtell.

Still want to see Percy lynched here.

[Sotty7]

Benmage and IAI's votes do look suspect on face value. Both are voting for someone they believe is town out of spite. However, I still have a strong town read on IAI because I have seen scumIAI and this is totally different. He does earn a couple of scum points for the reasoning to his vote but not enough for me to abandon this read.

Reread Post 776. Never had a town read on Baby Spice.

My vote for her is because I do not see a lynch on my Top 2 (Percy/Thor), and I see BS as equally likely to be scum as Lrdwhyt, Mina, Furc. So instead of picking a name out of a hat from these 4 players, I threw caution to the wind and picked BS because if she flips town, more fire will be added to the fires of My Top 2, which is very good if I am right about them.

I appreciate the clarity. The way you are

so sure

on Thor and Percy made me think you had town reads on pretty much everyone else.

= = = = = =

KScope's iso is always terrible, unfortunately.

Also extremely unimpressed that you are also pairing me with Lrd like your BFF Baby. But at least your voting the right way round unlike Babyspice.

I'm not sure why that is. I think he's definitely scummy and you're sorta free-floating on my list, right now. I haven't found anything that looks associative between you, but I can't think of a good reason this isn't plausible. Why are you unimpressed?

Because it came right off the back of Baby calling that exact same scum team.

No, I'm voting Babyspice for pushing scummy logic. Jason's slip wasn't a slip and therefore

wasn't

scummy.

That is not the defence of Jason that I quoted, though. You said:

He has a tendency to get into trouble like this because he tends to play on emotions and will just knee jerk to everything. As scum he is much more composed.

and I do think that is a very plausible explanation for at least parts of her play, in particular her stance on Benmage. I am not calling you out on a double standard, but I do think it's odd that you don't appear to have even considered this; in particular

I see no reason to attribute Babyspice's actions as VI over scummy. But as I think your question over, I guess I have no hardened reasoning why. I find her moves scummy and not stupid.

that, and as far as I can see, don't seem to find it an important thing to think about.

I really do think that it's odd that you don't have this train of thought if you're town. Why do you think it's scummy and not stupid?

I still don't think I am getting your point Elmo.

Baby isn't playing emotionally that I see. She also doesn't seem to be knee jerking to everything like I spoke about Jason doing. I have countless games experience playing with Jason, he is one of the only two players I am extremely comfortable with meta wise.

I don't think Jason is a VI, I also don't think his early play was stupid. I still don't see how this compares to Baby. They two styles are different to me. Neither look like idiots. Neither are VI's in my mind.

Baby has made a horrible case on Benmage and now me. I could cop out and call it stupid I suppose, but unless someone is going to be overly dumb in a game, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Baby doesn't strike me as stupid, so I think she is being opportunistic scum. It's as simple as that.

Lrd's vote on Elmo is awful it does not count as scum hunting. Benmage's push on him is good in that respect.

Would you like to see a Lrd lynch in the second part of today?

Yes. He is my second suspect. I really want to see both Baby and Lrd lynched today, I think that's the scum team. Especially with how Baby was so desperate to link me to Lrd for extremely poor reasons.

Mina is climbing my list a little, more than Percy now I had time to dwell on it a little. I'm still "eh" on Thor and yourself. Everyone else I'm feeling town.

Elmo, do you think Baby is a VI?

[Furcolow]

yeah, but unless you have statistics, lurking is not a scumtell.

Still want to see Percy lynched here.

are you willing to put your neck on the line for a percy lynch?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

yeah, but unless you have statistics, lurking is not a scumtell.

Still want to see Percy lynched here.

are you willing to put your neck on the line for a percy lynch?

Haven't I done that whole game?

Still, saying this just screams 2for1, which is totally scumthinking.

[Benmage]

yeah, but unless you have statistics, lurking is not a scumtell.

Lurking is a scumtell.

d2 is perfect to lynch him,

and there is even a lynch between me and you to see how this guy flips
if he flips red, you're lynched next
if he flips green, policy lynch me and let percy fry when i flip green
problem fucking solved

How does this make any sense?

And good luck on YOU pushing the Kscope lynch this day.. I wish you the best of luck ....