Newbie 1022 - Game Over

[drmyshottyizsik]

xvarts my buddy

[Kingcheese]

What.... The.... F*ck....

[Kingcheese]

Lol wish that PL had gone through... What a mess.

[DavidParker]

interesting.

[drmyshottyizsik]

DP don't post here yet

[Kingcheese]

The game is as good as over I don't see why not. Just waiting for lynch scene so it's official.

[drmyshottyizsik]

yes, but we DO need to wait

[AurorusVox]

Yeah, no one should be posting about their alignment until after the official mod scene. And the dead ought not to be posting either. KC, we'll get onto play analysis and game talk after the official lynch scene

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Kingcheese - 3 (drmyshottyizsik, VasudeVa, AurorusVox)

Not Voting - 2 (Kingcheese, xvart)

3 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The sun comes up and KCs neck stretched. The Mafia laugh about it all the way to the bank.

Kingcheese,

Townie

, lynched Day 3

drshottymyizsik,

Townie

, killed in Endgame

xvart,

Townie

, killed in Endgame

VasudeVa and AurorousVox

win the game for the

Mafia

team!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Role Reveal:

Player	Replaced	Role
AurorusVox ^		Mafia Roleblocker
Avish		Doc
LordChronos	Chief	Townie
DavidParker	EggyLv999	Townie
Kingcheese		Townie
xvart ^	Leech ^	Townie
drmyshottyizsik ^	Substrike22 ^	Townie
TheLonging ^		Cop
VasudeVa *		Mafia Goon

---

Night Actions:

Night 1:

AurorusVox blocks Leech.
TheLonging investigates shotty.
VasudeVa kills LordChronos.

Night 2:

AurorusVox blocks xvart.
TheLonging investigates Kingcheese.
VasudeVa kills TheLonging.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Everyone should use this time to post thoughts and observations about the game. Ask questions and try to figure out what went wrong (and right) with your play and how you can learn from it and improve. Be polite in pointing out mistakes made by others! Conversely, if someone points something out, learn from it – don’t get offended!!

My Observations

:

TL - WAY too obvious. Even without the crumbs, your complete 180° reversal of your position on shotty from Day 1 to Day 2 screamed Cop.

Avish - your self-hammer helped the town along to a loss. Don't ever vote for yourself as Town. By voting for yourself, you effectively voted for the only confirmed Town role in the game as far as you were concerned.

Mafia QuickTopic

[LordChronos]

Great job scum.

I never would have guessed AV was scum, though I thought VV was.

[AurorusVox]

MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

/brandish weapon in a threatening manner

---

I think there were many things that worked in the scum's favour in this game;

- Actively not lynching claimed VTs: note that after getting the claim, I then came up with reasons to switch to a different wagon. I didn't really want to personally get on Avish's wagon to force the claim from her because I'd prefer one-on one-off on mislynches, but Eggy was delaying so I had to do something lol. Getting her to claim was the task, it was just how to go about it. If I'd been pressured more to keep my vote where it was or stick to my LACVT policy, then things might have turned out differently. Also, this meant that even if TL

hadn't

outed himself to us, we'd have guaranteed either a RB or kill on the cop N2 (only non-claimed players were Leech and TL from scum pov)

- Avish self hammering...as doctor. Avish, I know you felt frustrated but from that point out we were sitting very pretty. Especially since any outed cop would then die. Self hammering is only ever a viable strategy if you're scum, and even then I don't like it.

-Leaving Shotty alive til LYLO. If the PL had gone through on Shotty D1, this would have been a very different game. TL would have investigated someone else, and Avish as doctor would have been able to save him...who knows what would have happened! His vote for KC allowed us to quickhammer; he didn't realise it was LYLO, which helped out a lot...><"

-TL outing himself. I still can't believe no one saw it...xD Lucky for me and Vas, I guess! But as I said, this wasn't a huge deal - we'd have RB'd or killed him either way since he was 50/50 cop with Leech/xvart.

---

Abundance of PBPA! Disclaimer: this isn't meant to sound condescending, just my observations and some random additional questions :p I hope you all enjoyed playing against/with me, I enjoyed playing with all of you ^^

VV:

you sexy beast

Leech:

I really liked your analyses this game, but unfortunately, they were finding scumtells on the wrong players. I don't blame you though - TL was pretty scummy D2, if you didn't pick up his crumbs. Avish, on the other hand...I didn't really find that scummy to be honest. Her scumminess was the sort that you had to find by actively looking for it. And did you not realise that TL was crumbing cop, or did you just not believe his crumbs? I'd love to play with you again, on the same side preferably though!

(

xvart:

you didn't have much of a chance to even post in this one, sorry bud)

TheLonging:

Did you crumb inno report on Shotty to prevent us going after him? Or was it more to defend yourself? I think you were in a tough position, after the vote/unvote at the start of D2. It must have been frustrating when Leech didn't "read between the lines". Did you realise I'd picked up your crumbs, and did that worry you? Without PR knowledge, you looked pretty scummy, but if you hadn't been a PR, I don't think you'd have looked as scummy, so it's a Catch-22 :\ I have no idea what I'd have done if I'd been town and noticed your crumbs in this situation. I'd have probably believed them but not so readily!

DavidParker:

Sorry for voting you D2, but the switch gave me the excuse I desperately needed to get off of the claimed VT. You even acknowledged yourself that the switch was scummy. Was it a trap intended to catch scum (like me)? Because if so, I think it was faulty in that it was scummy and so town would have picked up on it too. I also think your attitude about providing reasons/cases hurt you a bit, but I know that's just some player's playstyle. I personally find it hard to distinguish that from scumminess though

drmyshottyizsik:

Shotty, we were praying that you'd vote KC at daystart, and the fact that you didn't realise it was LYLO helped us in that cause. You really need to pay more attention >_>" That said you did develop Vox suspicions towards the end of D3, though I'm not sure why I was guaranteed scum over VV or xvart? I think this was more misunderstanding of the numbers than anything too solid...?

LordChronos

VV feared you and that was good enough for me to go along with. The fact you suspected VVscum shows that we were right to get rid of you (no one really pushed VVscum D1 or D2 that much except for me though, lol) Also I think your NK put a lot of WIFOM regarding NKs into the game, which was a happy byproduct. Its a shame I didn't get to play more with you (but good from scum pov)!

KingCheese

I think you're a good player, and will improve as you get some more experience. With anyone but Shotty in LYLO you probably wouldn't have been quicklynched, and would have likely been able to argue your corner. You started to get suspicious of me which was good (I think the only vote I ever got was an RVS from Shotty lol) but unfortunately you were bitchslapped by the quicklynch. You defused your wagon quite well on D2, but I still stand by my case on you - why you'd postulate a DP/Shotty scumteam with shotty as a town read is a bit confusing. Also, you did sound as though you were SURE of your reads - not that it's bad to argue with certainty, but be careful that this doesn't come across as having inside knowledge I'd look forwards to playing with you again! What were your thoughts D3? Was I your only remaining scum read (from your FoS) or was VV still buzzing around as Mr Neutral?

Avish

I think both me and VV agree that you played quite well, but unfortunately became a viable target for a non-Shotty mislynch. Never ever ever self-hammer as town, and especially not as a PR. Your reads and analysis was pretty good, and it was only by reading you specifically looking for scummy things that I managed to build a case on you. I hope you liked your D1, and would be greatly interested in seeing how you played in your next game, hopefully with the lessons learnt in this one!

[xvart]

gg scum. lol at not getting to post. AV - I probably never would have pursued AV/VV scum team but when I read your first attack/vote on VV I was like this might be a bus. Wagon momentum is everything it just seemed like you were trying to switch gears and push a wagon on scum that would go no where. And since you did this D2 as well I thought it might be possible but I wanted to see VV flip scum first. I was hoping to draw out some sort of reaction from you when I came out and said VV was scum and put a vote down but then the whole cop/shotty discussion took over (and I was late to the party by that point anyways).

And what was shotty's nonsense at the end claiming scum? I was sooo pissed that he did not get lynched D1, and the doctor died instead. Textbook case why you lynched shotty D1 in any game and why you lynch claimed VTs. Don't even talk to shotty, just vote him. Notice his dedication to this game and how he routinely said I'm giving this game his full attention. Then what does he do, he does jack crap all game and then places a vote down with no explanation in LYLO.

I'm guessing the AV/VV banter back and forth at the end was just to confirm you were both still online to quick hammer?

I also thought the case built on Avish was highly manufactured, but that could just be because I knew the role reveal already and saw shotty being such a dumbass. Avished - it happens. You can literally build a case on anyone in a game of mafia and twist it around and hammer at it again and again until you get them to say something really scummy under pressure.

Again, gg. I'm sorry I didn't get out in front of D3 and didn't get a chance to participate much. I've found I really enjoy replacing into newbie games in the N2/D3 phase so maybe we'll run into each other again sometime?

xvart.

[AurorusVox]

Heh yeah, I was careful only to push VV when his lynch was never going to happen >:)

[xvart]

Heh yeah, I was careful only to push VV when his lynch was never going to happen >:)

Yeah, but I think I threw that idea on the wayside because I was just happy to see someone attacking scum. What would you have done if I had come out of the gates and said VV is scum and then I just voted and shotty never came along and voted? Would you have bussed or still directed the conversation about shotty being town?

xvart.

[AurorusVox]

I'd have still opened with the same post but questioned why you were voting so early in LYLO. I didn't push Shotty on it because we wanted to quickhammer (yeah our banter was basically checking we were still online lol), but I'd have probably framed it as scummy for you to vote out the gate. I know Shotty accused me of being scum for voting out of the gate once so that may have worked.

But I'd have heartlessly bussed, and then pushed on probably KC at LYLO (my point about his three list scumlist with VV unmentioned at #3 as distancing; and additionally defended myself by saying I've always been after VV's blood, and even tried to direct people onto his lynch D1)

[xvart]

Yeah, I didn't mean I would have actually voted right out of the gate but would have been asking you if you were going to vote with me on VV and basically hypo-voting.

I'm looking forward to seeing what VV has to say. I haven't read the scum QT yet, but it is on my to-do list once I get some work done today.

xvart.

[VasudeVa]

A very fun game overall. . I was actually afraid of being scum against Leech in this game, since there was an ongoing game when this started and I just recently flipped scum from that one.

You guys should read the Mafia QT. Not to toot my own horn, but I think that you guys might pick up something from that. It contains some insights on what moves we planned and some things we discussed that I think, ultimately won us the game. AV picking up the TL crumb was pretty awesome(I actually missed that).

Although, if I was Town I would have attacked AV with an 'Why would you assume there is a cop?' angle. I actually think that was pretty damning in itself. 50-50 percent chance is correct, but if someone was as confident as that I'd automatically be suspicious. Luckily, no one picked that up so it boded well for us.

---

AV:

You obv-Town Adonis you.

Leech:

I was actually being very paranoid when you pointed out my first post. It was a pretty legit attack and my only defense was a very weak meta defense. Luckily for me, you didn't go after it. xvart picked it up later...but when shotty voted I knew I just had to catch AV online for teh hammerz. (Did any of you catch that? I was signalling my buddy for the hammer by posting some weak stuff. That hour was pretty tense xD.). I really think you would have been a valuable asset to Town if you were more active.

TL:

Defending shotty was probably your biggest mistake. Really set off the alarm for AV. Not all Townies deserve to survive. You would have been very valuable if you didn't.I think at that point Shotty, KC already claimed and DP was dead n' flipped VT so it was between you and Leech for the RB. If you managed to survive that, a Shotty inno and a cop claim would have narrowed us down easily.

DavidParker:

I was content on buddying you till end, but you gave me too many reasons to happily hop on your wagon. Although, I really liked that no-apologies entrance you did upon replacing Eggy. I was very honest in that being Townish .

LC:

No way was I gonna let you survive after that win against IC-scum in a Newbie game from way back .

KC:

I'd mirror AV's thoughts here and add some of my own. I think that you were a little reserved in pushing for your suspects, that or you aren't convincing enough with your pushes(Remember, you need to convince other people to get your suspect lynched.). I also think that you need to learn how to defend yourself better. Your downfall was that you trusted our word too much when in reality, as Town, you can only trust yourself(and your heavy Town reads if you're confident in your reads.). Still, you are very observant and you seem to know what it takes to get reads. Your late FoS on Vox shows that. That's pretty good for a newbie, I must say.

Avish:

Sorry Avish. I can't say I enjoyed bullying you to your lynch since it was pretty fun having you around. (I liked it when you were riding along with my silly jokes. xD). I think that you did well in defending yourself actually...but I was probably better in convincing people to vote for you. In fact, as you defended yourself, It was very hard on me to find new angles to attack you(in fact, I think I even slipped somewhere there.). But then Leech voted for you, and then the momentum was not on your side. Never ever self-hammer as Town. I do believe you realized that after your hammer(since we would have to kill you even IF you were scummy as hell.). I do believe that you have potential to be a good player. You've shown that you have some instincts, and you were very observant too. I'd like to see you around some more. I hope I didn't chase you off the site. @.@.

Shotty:

Hi Shotty. Can't really say much more than what is already being said.

[AurorusVox]

Although, if I was Town I would have attacked AV with an 'Why would you assume there is a cop?' angle. I actually think that was pretty damning in itself. 50-50 percent chance is correct, but if someone was as confident as that I'd automatically be suspicious. Luckily, no one picked that up so it boded well for us.

I was fully expecting this to be raised by someone, because I did believe the cop crumb too readily (as scum play this was necessary to get TL off my back though lol). I guess because no one else noticed it, I got away with it. But this is why I left some scope for me wondering about TL scum with my "4 points" which I had mentioned on D2 and then explained in detail on D3 - not that it actually mattered. Beyond that I'd have argued that I'd rather not risk losing Doc and Cop to D1 and D2 lynches respectively, and so decided to look elsewhere for scum and see if TL made it til the next day.

I should have put KC at L-1 then I'd have been the L-1 man for the whole game T_T But hammering ftw felt good :p

[Kingcheese]

Although I FOSed vox I wanted to see what he would say because I was out of options. Since Shotty was confirmed town it was between Leech Vas and Vox. Although I renewed suspicion on xvart slash leech I was still feeling he was town despite my read through of his meta. Which left vox and vas. I wasn't sold on vox because well... I don't know it just seemed I couldn't get a case on him.

So I fished and used a reason DP had declined to answer to see if I could spur some sort of reaction. I would have backed off and would have proceeded to because I just couldn't make a damn case. Although a good point I remember is vas and vox went at each other early and I was like wtf. It really seemed like a badly formed case on both sides. If only I had connected the dots.

If pressed I would have voted vas. He just seemed to do nothing all agme and get away with it. Shy away from the spotlight you know.

Ill make a bigger post later today in school now hard to type on a cell phone.

[TheLonging]

TheLonging:

Did you crumb inno report on Shotty to prevent us going after him? Or was it more to defend yourself? I think you were in a tough position, after the vote/unvote at the start of D2. It must have been frustrating when Leech didn't "read between the lines". Did you realise I'd picked up your crumbs, and did that worry you? Without PR knowledge, you looked pretty scummy, but if you hadn't been a PR, I don't think you'd have looked as scummy, so it's a Catch-22 :\ I have no idea what I'd have done if I'd been town and noticed your crumbs in this situation. I'd have probably believed them but not so readily!

Solely to defend myself, because if I didn't do anything and just argued with Leech, I would be lynched eventually, which would ultimately be worse. Yeah, but you were so town it was unbelievable.

TL:

Defending shotty was probably your biggest mistake. Really set off the alarm for AV. Not all Townies deserve to survive. You would have been very valuable if you didn't.I think at that point Shotty, KC already claimed and DP was dead n' flipped VT so it was between you and Leech for the RB. If you managed to survive that, a Shotty inno and a cop claim would have narrowed us down easily.

PLing shotty would have been one of the worst moves we could have done that whole game, and if I continued to push him, it would have resulted BAD for me.

You all try to be in my position, it would drive you mad on what move to do.

[AurorusVox]

Yeah, if you'd let Shotty get lynched...and then got roleblocked...and claimed cop in LYLO...your reports would have been "Shotty Inno" and "No report" which would have looked incredibly bad for you. I think it was a very difficult situation to extract yourself from.

[TheLonging]

Under the circumstances, I had to do what I believed was best, which wasn't the best I think.

I should have stuck to one of my original suspicions, VV. LC dying reeked of scuminess.