Newbie 1045: Christmas in Newbieville! (Mafia Win!)

[ender241]

@Glass - is this your alt or something? You seem to be understanding what your doing much better than most of us newbies
I'm going to VOTE: Leopold, he has not posted once in this thread, i think he doesn't want to post due to him possibly being scummy and hiding people getting evidence of the fact of his scumminess, and he didn't confirm either so i assume he's going to wait till a band-wagon and quickly get the lynch on somebody and take out the next townie.

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MrBump (1): Korts
Fungrus (1): Thor665
Mr. Flay (1): Fungrus
Leopold (1): ender241

Not voting (5): Leopold, Glass, Mr. Flay, Napher, MrBump

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
Deadline is January 14th, 2010 at 4:00PM.

[MrBump]

@Ender, this is not the only website ever which plays this game.

He probably hasn't posted because it's Christmas, to be perfectly fair.

[ender241]

@MrBump fair 'nuff, but i'm going to keep my vote due to lack of evidence on anyone else who could possibly be mafia and due to people saying i keep switching my vote and them getting ****ed off over it and voting me.

[xRECKONERx]

If Leopold hasn't posted by December 27th, I will force-replace him.

[Glass]

@ender: I have played mafia at other various places, this is just the first time I searched for a forum that specifically plays it.

Anyways, the point of my post:

@Napher - what's your read on Glass at the moment?

Just curious about why you ask someone, who had made two posts prior to you asking this, what they think about me specifically. It seems to me that this question can only mean one of three things:

1. You want to get people who haven't been talking involved in discussion.
2. You find me scummy and, without calling me out, are trying to find support among others.
3. You find Napher scummy and, without calling him out, are trying to drag more posts out of him to increase your evidence against him.

I think that number 2 or 3 are the most likely since it's not really your job to include everyone, you probably would have asked fungrus as well if that were the case. Whichever of us you find scummy you clearly don't have enough evidence to FOS us without being seen as scummy yourself.

At least, that's my interpretation of that question.

[Napher]

You are right I probably wasn't involved enough in the discussion, I wasn't really sure what to add to the conversation that hadn't already been said and it is the holidays, but now that christmas is nearly over and we are getting more posts I will be able to post more.

[ender241]

@Glass who do you think are scum and why? i've noticed you haven't posted anything of your opinion and am curious of what your view on this is as you haven't directly put someone as scum just yet.

[ender241]

@Glass - is this your alt or something? You seem to be understanding what your doing much better than most of us newbies
I'm going to VOTE: Leopold, he has not posted once in this thread, i think he doesn't want to post due to him possibly being scummy and hiding people getting evidence of the fact of his scumminess, and he didn't confirm either so i assume he's going to wait till a band-wagon and quickly get the lynch on somebody and take out the next townie.

---

MrBump (1): Korts
Fungrus (1): Thor665
Mr. Flay (1): Fungrus
ender241 (1): Leopold

Not voting (5): Leopold, Glass, Mr. Flay, Napher, MrBump

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
Deadline is January 14th, 2010 at 4:00PM.

Onto the votes thing, i think you have got something mixed up, it is not me being voted by Leopold it's him being voted by me

[Glass]

You're right, the reason that I have not put anyone as scum yet is because I cannot see enough scumtells right now to pursue any single individual; Saying that someone is scum when I can't really back it up is a good way to look scummy myself.

Although if I was forced to say who I thought was the scummiest right now I would say Thor, unfortunately I don't really have much reason for it besides the fact that I find him scummier than everyone else (although ender may be pushing the newbie card too far). Not to mention I don't really have a read on most people so I'm just trying to spark communication.

@lol at vote mistake

[Napher]

Ya, do any of the more experienced players have an idea of when we can stop saying things are just "noob mistakes" because I feel that the mafia may be able to use that to get their fellow mafia members out of trouble.

[ender241]

This is a newbie game, the first few pages are for the newbies to learn, i think the next 'mafia day' the experienced won't be going, meh newbie mistakes.

[Glass]

@Napher

As long as they are newbies they can use the newbie card, whether or not we believe them is a different story.

[Glass]

Of course, if you believe that one of these newbies is a newbie maf and not a newbie town, feel free to fos them as you would anyone else.

[Thor665]

Wooosh, lots to catch up on oddly enough, my other games are dragging. Here goes;

That is why even though I found his actions to be inherently scummy, they led me to believe that he was not scum.

Where do you think you indicated this at the time?

I'm starting to see what you guys are talking about MrBump and Fungrus may be working together or at least Fungrus is scum. I would be willing to jump on the bandwagon once I find more proof, as right now I'm not certain.

If you see the case why are you uncertain about it? What rings false or incomplete?

@Mr. Bump - what are your feelings about the current pressure upon you - I believe it's two votes and at least both Flay and I have expressed interest in the wagon.

I'm honestly quite confused, as I explained it. I realised it was a newbie mistake Ender made and I'm not going to jump on him for that. It's just silly.

I can see from these posts Ender is simply unaware. He's likely to swap his votes around the place, so;
UNVOTE: Ender

Ouch, my scum-o-meter just started flashing at me.

I can see some of what people were talking about [Mr. Bump], but a lot of it seems predicated on Fungrus, who I don't get as scummy yet.

I agree with the interesting angle you've noted - Korts seems really excited to run up Mr. Bump for dismissing his 'scumbuddy' Fungrus - which, as I noted earlier, is reverse lgic. If Bump is scum because he's buddies with Fungrus it's inane to lynch Bump first of the pairing because only one of them can be independently scummy in that equation. Have you played with Korts before, what's your read on that?

The quick change of votes is a pretty weak scumtell as, generally, scum want to lynch somebody.

^dont these two statements contradict each other? Fungrus = scum for not voting, but scum wants to lynch.

Quick changes of votes weakens lynch attempts in early game.
Avoidance of voting someone you call scummy is worth investigating.
I see no contradiction in the two beliefs being concurrent as the two examples are non-analogous.

You'll note of the experienced players I'm the only one who hasn't changed my vote yet - it's normal to be vote hopping at this stage as you try to get wagons up and running and pressure people.

So why haven't you been changing votes? I am rather curious about this.

You have noticed that Fungrus *just* finally responded to my questions and vote of him - there's not much point to changing a vote until it gets reactions, is there? I'm keeping my vote and desire to lynch him as the obv. scum he is until I deduce that he's not scum, someone is more obv. scum, or he's lynched.

@Napher - what's your read on Glass at the moment?

Just curious about why you ask someone, who had made two posts prior to you asking this, what they think about me specifically. It seems to me that this question can only mean one of three things:

1. You want to get people who haven't been talking involved in discussion.
2. You find me scummy and, without calling me out, are trying to find support among others.
3. You find Napher scummy and, without calling him out, are trying to drag more posts out of him to increase your evidence against him.

I think that number 2 or 3 are the most likely since it's not really your job to include everyone, you probably would have asked fungrus as well if that were the case. Whichever of us you find scummy you clearly don't have enough evidence to FOS us without being seen as scummy yourself.

At least, that's my interpretation of that question.

Is there an actual question you want responded to here?
Let's move Glass further up the scumdar - his more solid voicing of concerns about me after Bump made that statement earlier suggests to me Bump is more likely town and Glass more likely scum. Still puzzling out my Fungrus and Kort reads, but should have enough to have a solidification or shift in my vote after their next posts.

[Glass]

Do I see an omgus? And no, that was not a question but simply an observation.

[Glass]

You also make it seem as though I jumped on a bandwagon calling you scummy right after Mr.Bump did when in reality I only said that after I was questioned who I thought was scum.

[Thor665]

Do I see an omgus?

Can you explain how you think an omgus is scummy? While we're at it, define omgus and show how it applies to me.

At least your second post is semi-functional because you actually address one of the issues I raised with you. I think you "jumped on the bandwagon" insomuch as it does seem interesting that within a page of Mr. Bump expressing uncertain doubts about me that he can't define you leap out with a scumlist...of one player. You don't think I should see a possible connection between the two events?

[Glass]

An omgus is when you fos/vote for someone because they fos/vote you. How this applies to you is pretty clear as you jumped on my ass right after I said I thought you were scummy.

How is it scummy? Because it shows you have no reason to fos the person, you should not omgus as town because it is very probable that the person fosing you is a townie (if you did not think they were scum prior to the fos), thus it is better to try and lynch someone who actually looks scummy instead of someone who simply voted you. Mafia on the other hand have no reason not to omgus.

it does seem interesting that within a page of Mr. Bump expressing uncertain doubts about me that he can't define you leap out with a scumlist...of one player.

I did not "leap out" with a scumlist, I was simply replying to ender's request. And I can see how you see a connection between the events, but I can assure you that they are unrelated. If I were to fos Korts right now would it make anyone who foses him in the future scummy? I don't believe so.

[MrBump]

I can see from these posts Ender is simply unaware. He's likely to swap his votes around the place, so;
UNVOTE: Ender

Ouch, my scum-o-meter just started flashing at me.

Let's move Glass further up the scumdar - his more solid voicing of concerns about me after Bump made that statement earlier suggests to me Bump is more likely town and Glass more likely scum. Still puzzling out my Fungrus and Kort reads, but should have enough to have a solidification or shift in my vote after their next posts.

Avoidance of voting someone you call scummy is worth investigating.

Yet you didn't change your vote or anything? What?
This is a minor suspicion, but anyway;

VOTE: Thor665

I'll comment on other stuff when I get back from lunch.

[Thor665]

An omgus is when you fos/vote for someone

only

because they fos/vote you. How this applies to you is pretty clear as you jumped on my ass right after I said I thought you were scummy.

Fixed the error.
Voting for someone after they have voted for you is not OMGUS - only doing so with a lack of other reasons is.
You agree I listed reasons to suspect you and responded to them, ergo - not OMGUS.

How is it scummy? Because it shows you have no reason to fos the person, you should not omgus as town because it is very probable that the person fosing you is a townie (if you did not think they were scum prior to the fos), thus it is better to try and lynch someone who actually looks scummy instead of someone who simply voted you. Mafia on the other hand have no reason not to omgus.

I'll agree a total lack of reasons to vote someone is bad, but it's not scummy. It's poor play. Scum and town generally commit poor play proportionally to each other.

I did not "leap out" with a scumlist, I was simply replying to ender's request. And I can see how you see a connection between the events, but I can assure you that they are unrelated. If I were to fos Korts right now would it make anyone who foses him in the future scummy? I don't believe so.

Depends how you did it and how they did it, wouldn't it? But I'm glad you agree there's a connection I could have seen there. Why do you feel a need to justify who asked you to list your reads now? Is the 'jumping out' commentary making you uneasy? Do you think if ender hadn't asked you for your reads you *would* look scummy?

Yet you didn't change your vote or anything? What?

Indeed, I didn't. I even said as much;

Still puzzling out my Fungrus and Kort reads, but should have enough to have a solidification or shift in my vote after their next posts.

Why is it scummy that I'm not voting you yet?

[Glass]

Why do you feel a need to justify who asked you to list your reads now?

Because if I had simply said: "Thor is scummy" without explanation it would have made me look scummy; making it appear that I was only doing so because Mr.Bump had.

Is the 'jumping out' commentary making you uneasy? Do you think if ender hadn't asked you for your reads you *would* look scummy?

I think the first question is rhetorical, so to answer your second question: Yes, I believe it would have been scummy as stated above.

[MrBump]

I'll be honest Thor, I did not see that part. My bad.

I was pointing out you said "Saying someone is scummy then not voting is scummy itself" then didn't vote. It never occurred to me you had FoS's.
My vote remains on your however because, I just dislike your play. I can't put my finger on it, but something is wrong with it.

[Thor665]

I think the first question is rhetorical, so to answer your second question: Yes, I believe it would have been scummy as stated above.

Wooosh! Thank gawd he asked you then, eh?

As a question - you apparently have no suspects other than me, what are you doing to get me lynched and/or discover if I am really scum? I'll admit I'm pressuring you, and you're responding to that, but I feel zero pressure towards me from your end and that's making you look really scummy to me. What's up?

@Mr. Bump - my advice is to try and figure out why your gut is twigging to me, until you do that you and others won't be able to assess the case. You need to be able to assess the gut reaad to decide if it's valid, and you need to be able to explain where it's coming from if you want any support that isn't Glass'

I'll also note, that if you dislike my play but aren't reading me clearly enough to notice what I'm saying about my positions and votes then I, quite frankly, consider your gut read absolutely meaningless as it's coming from made up assumptions in your own head that are ignoring what I'm doing.

[Glass]

I think the first question is rhetorical, so to answer your second question: Yes, I believe it would have been scummy as stated above.

Wooosh! Thank gawd he asked you then, eh?

As a question - you apparently have no suspects other than me, what are you doing to get me lynched and/or discover if I am really scum? I'll admit I'm pressuring you, and you're responding to that, but I feel zero pressure towards me from your end and that's making you look really scummy to me. What's up?

@Mr. Bump - my advice is to try and figure out why your gut is twigging to me, until you do that you and others won't be able to assess the case. You need to be able to assess the gut reaad to decide if it's valid, and you need to be able to explain where it's coming from if you want any support that isn't Glass'

I'll also note, that if you dislike my play but aren't reading me clearly enough to notice what I'm saying about my positions and votes then I, quite frankly, consider your gut read absolutely meaningless as it's coming from made up assumptions in your own head that are ignoring what I'm doing.

LOL it's not like I was itching to fos you and just waiting for an excuse to do so.

I am not doing anything to get you lynched besides getting you to talk more, the basis for my fos is not a powerful enough for me to want you lynched yet.

[Thor665]

So you have zero desire to see anyone lynched?
What are you doing to change that situation?