Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[AurorusVox]

I'd watch Plum swing but only if TNM reveals his stalk target.

[Seacore]

I don't like TNM's statement that if his kill doesn't go through we can kill him tomorrow. That's not a town statement. If he's targeted scum there's a chance they'll protect that person, over protecting AV or Andrius (in the assumption that one of them is scum) just because it provides a mislynch.

Although, here's a fun point.
There are 5 scum, two of them are bloody. Which means three at max have first aid kits. And if they've been spreading the ritual around, probably even less.

[totallynotmafia]

Seacore, I said if I'm not

confirmed

you can lynch me tomorrow. If my target is scum and they are rezzed then I am still confirmed, sure, they can lie and say they're not bloody but they'll be caught as soon as I am lynched and flip investigator. So if I've stalked cult I'm 100% confirmed tomorrow.

Actually...I think I'm 100% confirmed either way. If I was wrong about the ritual taking precedence over the murder, except in the case where the target is rezzed, that means that the only way cult can interfere with my confirming is if they rezz and ritualise the same person. Now, if they know my target, they can accomplish this easy, if they don't know my target, they're gonna have to guess and risk reviving their own NK target if they're wrong. So, now do you still think it's a good idea to reveal my target? The only way I wont be confirmed tomorrow is if cult ritualise my target and a townie rezzes my target as well, but i'm willing to risk this as the chances of it happening are very slim.

The only confirmed investigator is xvart. Why? Because he stalked and killed secretly, so cult had no chance to interfere. I think everybody should keep their stalk targets to themselves from now on (just say if they were successful or not), there's no way we're going to get any more confirmed town if people keep revealing their stalk targets.

[Trilobite]

The whole TNM stalk claim isn't as clear as people are trying to insist. From what I have read there is pros and cons to both ways and we have no problem with him claiming his target tomorrow with a hot death. If the fear of him piggie backing another claim is so bad, why no make sure TNM is the FIRST to claim out of all the stalkers?

Also we would like Seacore to follow though with his kill, not Ice. I'll go into more detial on that soon.

~Sotty

[Benmage]

Tnm's logic is so fucking bad I am so glad we are lynching him and feel great about it.

He ignored the scenario where he is nk'd and his target is rezzed (sure it confirms he was town, but it leaves us out of the loop)....lets see. The only one to successfully kill cult has been myself. Xvarts kill went through because he killed a townie. Your kill will likely only go through if it is on a townie.

Regardless I am over it and his obstinate behavior. He hangs today period. He missed his opportunity to claim. I don't even care now, he dies and that's that.

[Seacore]

Yes, it is still a good idea because the almost certainly know your target anyway.

Scum know which among them have heard things
Town have told the truth about hearing things.

Scum know what they've done
Town have told the truth about what they've done.

Therefore scum almost certainly already know who you've stalked. So what we're asking for you to do is reveal it to the town.

Revealing stalk targets is the only way we can confirm town.

Lets say we didn't reveal our stalk targets.
I kill AV tonight.
Iec then says "hey, so did I"

Neither of us are confirmed.

Scum have very very very few first aids. 3 at absolute most, probably less. Therefore they can't easily rez your target.

And you were wrong about the murder/ritual thing.
Murder resolves first, so the target is murdered. The ritual then fails to resolve because there's nobody alive. It's been spelled out previously by the mod, I just can't find where.

Also, I don't like what you've said about "if you're not confirmed we should lynch you" That's not a town thing to say. You should be scum hunting during the day and depending on your findings and also your pro town behaviour to keep you alive, not what appeares to be a last minute stall of you trying to stay alive just one more night.

If you don't declare who you've stalked, you can claim to have attempted to murder the ritual target. And then you have have one of your cult buddies claim to have rezzed the ritual target. Hell, he'll even be bloody enough to prove it, because he killed the guy with you.

But I'm done arguing with you, we're all done arguing with you. Claim or die.
If you are town, even if you think we're all wrong, are you willing to have us lynch a townie over this debate?

[Seacore]

Trilo, I would like to hear more about why it should be me, I felt that AV made a compelling argument

Benmage, I'd like you to weigh in on this too, probably after Trilo

[Benmage]

The whole TNM stalk claim isn't as clear as people are trying to insist. From what I have read there is pros and cons to both ways and we have no problem with him claiming his target tomorrow with a hot death. If the fear of him piggie backing another claim is so bad, why no make sure TNM is the FIRST to claim out of all the stalkers?

Also we would like Seacore to follow though with his kill, not Ice. I'll go into more detial on that soon.

~Sotty

God, you are totally scum too aren't you

?

. The order of the claim is meaningless, that should be obvious. In addition to wanting him to claim today and not being satisfied with lynching him tomorrow is we don't want scum to maximize use out of him and screw with our actions like spyrex did. I am not letting another scum wiggle into living an additional day.

[Trilobite]

I think Benmage should definately NOT tell us who he stalked, and if he is an investigator he should PROVE IT by going ahead with the kill. Firstly, he may have stalked a cultist or the murderer. Secondly, town are (hopefully) going to be rezzing those they believe to be town and in danger anyway.

Thirdly, by BM not telling us who the target is, that forces cult to rez all their members who heard noises tonight if they wanna be completely safe. This consumes both their rez kits and their night actions.

BM: go through with the kill. Don't tell us your target.

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

I'm not sure about El Goosuki, it's just as ridiculous for me that cult would claim that as a night action and put themselves out there like that.

Vote: Kunkstar

He has been going with the voting flow the entire game, plus I think he was trying to score town points with the BM issue while trying to get BM to reveal his target to benefit cult.

The guy is consistent at least. This claim or die stuff is starting to get really old. Can't we all just agree to lynch Plum?

~Sotty

[AurorusVox]

I think it's just die or die now. Like Ben says, he ignores the PEW PEW PEW dead TNM non-revealed cult-targeted murder (which should be one of his greatest concerns if he's town)

Trilo, also looking forwards to details.

[Benmage]

Trilo, I would like to hear more about why it should be me, I felt that AV made a compelling argument

Benmage, I'd like you to weigh in on this too, probably after Trilo

Have I really not said enough on why?

[AurorusVox]

ALSO also, just thought, if no one else claims they were murdered last night, that gives Seacore proskills townpoints amirite? So isn't him getting confirmed on me a waste when we can get Iec confirmed on me (or outed) and keep Seacore very-probable clear (assuming there are no other attempted-murder claims)

My thought process goes further thusly: normally the order of claimed stalks doesn't matter due to noise hearing revealing who got stalked, but cult wouldn't know I was stalked though noise last night since they passed me a fetish and I'd have heard a noise anyway. So Seacore fakeclaiming a stalk on me (first) would be VERY risky, esp. considering no one claimed to stalk me before so he could have outed himself like a motherfucker. Put that on top of his attempted murder claim, and bam. Also Iec's reasons sound like he was preparing to back down killing me because "whoops I made a mistake guess I shouldn't have stalked you then <3"

Benmage, please respond to this. This is a fresh(tm) argument.

[Trilobite]

Trilo, I would like to hear more about why it should be me, I felt that AV made a compelling argument

Benmage, I'd like you to weigh in on this too, probably after Trilo

It will take a little while for me to compile what I need to for explanation wise. I'm in the process of re-reading important parts of the game but I hope to have something tonight or tomorrow morning at least.

We have a theory that involves scum hunting with a dash of set up speculation. Not the other way round.

Ben, the point is, you can argue it either way. This claim or die stuff is BS and I'm not going to sit back and let him get railed while we get side tracked over this. It's one big diversion if you ask me. If you feel so strongly about it, put him on the stalk list. That at least gives him the night to confirm himself and if it doesn't work he gets lynched or murdered.

~Sotty

[Benmage]

The guy is consistent at least. This claim or die stuff is starting to get really old. Can't we all just agree to lynch Plum?

~Sotty

Lol, fuck no. You should really start bussing.

[Benmage]

ALSO also, just thought, if no one else claims they were murdered last night, that gives Seacore proskills townpoints amirite? So isn't him getting confirmed on me a waste when we can get Iec confirmed on me (or outed) and keep Seacore very-probable clear (assuming there are no other attempted-murder claims)

My thought process goes further thusly: normally the order of claimed stalks doesn't matter due to noise hearing revealing who got stalked, but cult wouldn't know I was stalked though noise last night since they passed me a fetish and I'd have heard a noise anyway. So Seacore fakeclaiming a stalk on me (first) would be VERY risky, esp. considering no one claimed to stalk me before so he could have outed himself like a motherfucker. Put that on top of his attempted murder claim, and bam. Also Iec's reasons sound like he was preparing to back down killing me because "whoops I made a mistake guess I shouldn't have stalked you then <3"

Benmage, please respond to this. This is a fresh(tm) argument.

yeah, that's good enough for me. Sea doesn't have to kill. Save his kill for an endgame sexy maneuver or something. Ice will kill. Word. I am away and on a phone.

[Benmage]

No trilo I don't want a walking dead cult screwing with our night actions. He dies today.

[totallynotmafia]

OMG Seacore....Benmage I can see doesn't want to actually use his brain (or is cult, i hope he's cult for his sake), but you can surely understand the following:

IF TOMORROW I CLAIM TO HAVE MURDERED SOMEBODY WHO SOMEBODY ELSE HAS MURDERED, I'M NOT CONFIRMED. IF I CLAIM TO HAVE MURDERED THE PERSON WHO IS RITUALISED, I'M NOT CONFIRMED.

IF I WAS CULT, THERE WOULD BE NO WAY I CAN CONFIRM MYSELF BECAUSE I WOULD BE INCAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER, SO IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU KNOW MY TARGET OR NOT.

I'm fairly certain that not revealing my target is in the best interests of the town, but I'm willing to reveal it if a majority wants me to.

ps i love you sotty

[totallynotmafia]

I think it's just die or die now. Like Ben says, he ignores the PEW PEW PEW dead TNM non-revealed cult-targeted murder (which should be one of his greatest concerns if he's town)

Trilo, also looking forwards to details.

You think that is more important than confirming myself as town when I'm copping so much heat?

[totallynotmafia]

*more of a concern

[Benmage]

Lol tnm what majority you looking for? The remaining cult to agree. Vpb sea and myself have demanded it.

[totallynotmafia]

Three out of seventeen is a majority, now?

[Benmage]

Three out of seventeen is a majority, now?

Whose against it? AV is for it. Half haven't commented.

And yeah, whose been running the show?

Whatever, get better. You hang. Trying to throw out that I'm Awesome cult gambiting is hilarious. Go hunt murderers next. You cult are really fumbling quite the lead.

[totallynotmafia]

If i was dumb enough to listen to you and stalk you last night i wouldn't even be sitting on a successful stalk right now and I would be in a much worse position, so i think I'll wait for players who actually think about things and don't just go "OH MY GOD YOU'RE NOT TELLING US SOMETHING THAT MEANS YOU'RE SCUM!!!" to weigh in on the situation thankyou very much.

[AurorusVox]

IF I WAS CULT, THERE WOULD BE NO WAY I CAN CONFIRM MYSELF BECAUSE I WOULD BE INCAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER, SO IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU KNOW MY TARGET OR NOT.

IF YOU ARE TOWN AND YOU GET KILLED AND CULT SUCCESSFULLY SAVE YOUR TARGET

WE WON'T KNOW WHO IT IS

[VP Baltar]

IF I WAS CULT, THERE WOULD BE NO WAY I CAN CONFIRM MYSELF BECAUSE I WOULD BE INCAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER

That's what we've been saying all along. Your reason for stalling this long is that you didn't stalk and you're trying to buy an extra day for your teams to you can craft/pass fetishes, rezz buddies, ward graves or whatever the hell else the cult would need you to do at night. How is this not making sense to you if you're town?