Mafia 1114: Jim's Mafia - Game OVER!!!!

[DavidParker]

ICE, you do realize people are reluctant enough to believe townies who get lynched.. Why would we listen to scum who get lynched? Why are you "trying to help town" hunt the other scum faction? Nothing you say we are going to really believe for the most part until we've seen game info that supports it. And your scum reads are the last thing we will listen to.. ANything you are currently doing is only to help your scum buddy. So you will be ignored.

Poirot, like Edger, seemed to have a legit case against me

So which of these is your scum buddy who bussed?

[magnus_orion]

ughhhh... this game progresses too fast for me.
Is ice dead yet? Can mini normals even have 2 mafia factions? Is ICE claiming to have only one partner?

unvote
vote: ICE

[RobCapone]

1, yes I believe he has been lynched and we are waiting for a mod
2. yes there can be 2 mafia factions, I have played in 1 already and they are lame (it's 2 mafia in each faction, the only good thing is the 2 mafia groups try to kill each other)
3. based on a couple of posts in the open game suggestion thread, Jim has made suggestions for a 2 mafia game so I would not put it past him

[jimfinn]

Vote Count D1 #4: lynch reached!
With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

ConSpiracy (0):
Edgerobin (0):
Mute (2): ConSpiracy, ICEninja
ICEninja (9) (L+2): Javert, Edgerobin, Oso, Jerbs, Prox, Mute, DavidParker (the Hammer), RobCapone (SuperHammer), magnus_orion (the OVERKILL)
Oso (0):
manutdforev10 (0):
HumblePoirot (0):
magnus_orion (0):
Javert (0):
RobCapone (0):
DavidParker (0):

ICEninja has been lynched! Please stand by as N1 begins! Lynch scene forthcoming.

[jimfinn]

"All right! You've got me! I give up," ICEninja cried. "I have an enemy, kill them so you can win," were his last dying words as the town surrounded him and strung him up. His death was swift and nearly painless.
The town quickly searched his belongings and discovered a knife, as they expected.

ICEninja, knife mafia goon, lynched D1.

Night 1 ends in 48 hours, countdown here. Please submit your actions.

[jimfinn]

HumblePoirot awoke to a rather unpleasant surprise. Or perhaps awoke isn't exactly the right word. For the surprise was a large knife through his stomach, and sleep would be his forevermore.

The town gathered around his house, and searched it. Nothing was found there but a big pile of ice cream in the freezer.

HumblePoirot, vanilla townie, Stabbed N1.

The town gathered in the center of town to decide who might be responsible.
Day 2 Begins Now. You have until midnight my time February 3rd to arrive at your next suspect. Countdown here

[Humble Poirot]

Death is so peaceful...

And yet... So boring...

Good luck everyone.

May the truth be with you.

Bah!!!

[DavidParker]

Haha, I'm going to assume scum killed him for that huge wall post of his. [/sarcasm]

We've no reason to believe there is two scum factions at this point, but I don't see why ICE would claim there is two, if there was only going to be one night kill. Yadee yah, pointless speculation etc etc.

Vote: RobCapone

[RobCapone]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2743521

all this is still very valid points and because you refused to make a single case on anyone yesterday and just hopped on at the last minute (probably to hammer your partner) I feel good about this vote

Vote David Parker

[RobCapone]

inb4 David Parker accuses me of OMGUS because he was my area of concern day 1 and nothing has changed.

[DavidParker]

I was going to?

[Prox]

Interesting. I guess it's possible that ICE thought there was a second group but was wrong or was lying to us. I don't see it as likely they would not use their kill.

I'll wait till when the parents are more asleep to pull out my notebook and post what I think.

Until then...I need to stay awake.

[RobCapone]

I was going to?

I don't know if you would do that, where i normally play they definitly do that, regardless if there is a valid reason or not so it's a habbit

all I do know is during the night phase I read over games where you were town and I was only able to find 1 game so far when you were scum (which you replaced into)

and I definitely don't see you playing your town meta, so I will just add that to another reason I am suspicious of you.

[Mute]

So either ICE was telling the truth about a two family scenario (which rob mentioned the mod suggesting that sorta setup here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2744574), or he was lying? *shrug*

Humble had made points against a lot of people with his Wall so I can't figure out who'd have the best motivations to want him dead.

[Javert]

Vote: RobCapone

1.)

You seemed to be avoiding me when I was directly asking you to give an opinion on ICEninja (from Post 151). But you were happy to make conversation with Mute and Prox during the same time period.

2.)

In Post 149 you said you “agreed with [my] points” on ICEninja. Very shortly after, you imply just the opposite in Post 160, but tacking a “+1” to Mute’s comment about

not

seeing my points.

~

Prepost edit: I see absolutely no point in discussing whether anybody thinks there is a second mafia team at this point.

[DavidParker]

Feel free to check my wiki for a list of my games, there's 3-4 scum ones.

[RobCapone]

Vote: RobCapone

1.)

You seemed to be avoiding me when I was directly asking you to give an opinion on ICEninja (from Post 151). But you were happy to make conversation with Mute and Prox during the same time period.

2.)

In Post 149 you said you “agreed with [my] points” on ICEninja. Very shortly after, you imply just the opposite in Post 160, but tacking a “+1” to Mute’s comment about

not

seeing my points.

~

Prepost edit: I see absolutely no point in discussing whether anybody thinks there is a second mafia team at this point.

1. I missed that post which is why I didn't respond to it, my apologies

2. I would suggest you read post 160 again because Mute said.

Ya know Javert, I've read that post by ICE several times and

until you posted that I still wasn't able to get that from it.

I'll chalk it up to difference in personalities and such, but even with all that's been brought up I still feel ICE to be town.

and I gave that a +1 because I agreed that before you wrote it out like that I did not see your points. so I didn't contradict my 149, I actually re-confirmed it.

3. If you are going to accuse me of ignoring your questions, I can do the same to you because in my post 160 I ask you to post a condensed case on Ice and you never did.

I will take note that you are ignoring a very strong case on David Parker, I just skimmed your posts and you have yet to comment on anything I have said about David's play and given he defended you early on for no reason what so ever, to me just makes me more skeptical of your relationship in this game.

you want to vote me fine go ahead but atleast have a good reason for it, because your #1 isn't nearly enough when you are guilty of it too and your # 2 has just been disproven.

kthx

[Edgerobin]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2743521

all this is still very valid points and because you refused to make a single case on anyone yesterday and just hopped on at the last minute (probably to hammer your partner) I feel good about this vote

Vote David Parker

And your case just gets worse.

RobCapone+7

. DP's made some efforts at defending himself, so there is more I want to say. Let me go through this:

To begin with, I asked you to explain this:

I don't like the fact that he has defended Javert for his attempt at reaction fishing while completely negating the whole exercise. While I feel that yes Javert put the attention on himself, how can ANYONE think he was pro-town enough to be defended like DP was doing. The fact that he completely ruined the gambit to me means that he was doing 2 things.
1. defending Javert because DP thinks (or maybe knows) he is town
2. taking the attention off magnus

I thought maybe I was missing something, but I'm not. Quoting from your ISO 21:

this is where he is defending (protecting, or whatever else you want to call it) Javert because people are voting him

I'm disappointed by players reactions to Javert's antics. They are searching for reactions and you guys are giving them - bad ones.

He is moving us out of RVS even if it's by drawing negative attention to himself. Now get your votes off him.

I'll be looking at the various reactions to Javert to see which is most scummy.

this is where he admits he has ruined javert's attempt at reaction fishing

Sorry for ruining your little "ploy" but frankly I wasn't that interested in magnus's reaction and don't think it would have been as revealing as you are making it to be. It may have been interesting to see whether he bandwagoned you or not, but I could see him doing that as town or scum. As it stands, it was more important to diffuse the situation and get people off your back.

So yes, Javert's play while not being a town tell in my eyes, was definitely a move that benefited town (YEAH I KNOW CONTRADICTION)

From the very first of those quotes you post, and it's even clearer in the second, DP clearly doesn't think Jav's "antics" are going to achieve anything. So he isnt "undermining" Javert - because he doesn't think there is anything to be undermined.

and once that happened nobody paid any attention to magnus and what does DP get for taking the attention off magnus and defending Javert for his attempt to end RVS and reaction fish (which DP ruins) he gets this post from magnus

Which just doesn't make sense. Plenty of people don't like gambits, and DP thought it was useless. It may have pulled attention off magnus, but you haven't proven at all that that is what DP was trying to do, let alone that he was trying to do it for scummy reasons as opposed to genuinely thinking the gambit was unreliable.

it is just pinging on my scumdar, in the end it could be nothing but in my head I am skeptical about the whole thing and David is right in the middle of it all

You aren't being skeptical, you're being paranoid/conspiratorial. David makes a post attacking what he thinks is bad. In doing so, David defends Magnus. Big deal.

And...coming right back to the very first quote I quoted from you, DP had been suspicious of ICE for some time. Painting it as a sudden turnabout is just rubbish.

I will go ahead and point out the obvious:

Just because ICEninja claims to only have one partner, it does not make it true. Scum who seem to "give up" often leave Towns with at least one final poison pill as an attempt at sowing confusion. I will believe it when I see it.

ConSpiracy, I am going to kindly ignore your commentary on how you think I should play.

^ This. Especially given that his 194 shows he was clearly still thinking about the game, including its saccharine ending of "I'm helping town as much as I can at this point because in serious honestly, I would prefer town to win than the other scum team. I want them caught." It reads more like mafia trying to appear to be town's best friend (a really weird thing in and of itself) than mafia actually wanting to help the town. Basically, I'm treating everything he said as likely BS.

[RobCapone]

I'm sorry you dont see it my way but saying people are voting Javert for the wrong reasons is an attempt to defend him
Explaining what Javert was trying to do, instead of letting Javert's gambit play out takes away from it, thus preventing a reaction from the person he was attacking (clanking on name at the moment)
That person showing up voting DP seemed odd
DP did say he found ice scummy, he said he found mute scummy too but he never really says why, he admits he doesn't make a case because others have already (this is sheeping and refusal to make your own case IS a scum tell)
As Ice's wagon gets bigger DP finds him more scummy
DP's only other vote that day ( going off memory, can't verify on my iPhone ATM) was me for not commenting on the Javert wagon, but DP doesn't really add anything to the Ice wagon other than checking for votes

So today David votes me but doesn't give a reason, hasn't really even attempted to make a case on me, and Javert follows him

This relationship to me is odd but right now basedon what I have seen, DP is the best lynch candidate IMO

[Oso]

Yeah I'm going to throw in with that myself with the two scum group thing. Anything ICE said at the end of the day yesterday is highly suspect. There may or may not end up being two scum groups in this game but there is also absolutely no reason to believe it at the moment other than through ICE and he would be about at the last person I'd consider reliable considering his flip.

VOTE: DavidParker

Currently reviewing something that pinged me on a partial re-read after Poirot's flip but I would like to ask David this:

I'd just like to post my agreement with Rob that 3-4 days before deadline if the activity and content of some of the players in this game doesn't pick up I will fully support a lynch of one of these players. It makes the game more enjoyable and.. is just more helpful if everyone is actively posting their opinions (as wrong as some people mind find those opinions to be).

Yes, I know I don't support policy lynches, but 3-4 days before deadline, lynching someone for not posting any content is not what I consider a policy lynch, but a player being anti-town and lurking, which is definitely a scum tell in current meta.

Why pick that particular subject (lurker, low post/low content hunt near deadline) and that particular time in the game to post that thought? The game opened up (according to the timestamps at my setting) on the 17th. You made that post on the 19th. At that point, there was still 12 days until deadline (2 full weeks for Day-1 according to the Rules post).

[DavidParker]

@Oso: That post is just my opinion on the topic of lurking, and lynching people who lurk. There are situations where a lurker lynch on day 1 is optimal. That's all I was pointing out, my person beliefs, it's really more MD, so I'm not sure why you are voting me over a MD topic rather than actual game-related content. The timing of it was just because it had been brought up by Rob, suddenly suggesting a lurker lynch with 3-4 days left to deadline wasn't going to be a popular option, so I decided to bring it up sooner, that given the circumstances, it could be an optimal day 1 lynch.

Moving on.

DP did say he found ice scummy, he said he found mute scummy too but he never really says why, he admits he doesn't make a case because others have already (this is sheeping and refusal to make your own case IS a scum tell)

Refusal to make your own case is a scum tell?????? What world do you play mafia in??? Agreeing with a case and wagoning is not a scum-tell. Townies have to bandwagon just like scum bandwagon. Agreeing with a case is a scum tell??? You are just trying to make me look scummy with these ridiculous claims. In general, constant sheeping and town-following is bad play and a scum tell, but that's not what I've done at all. Your statement is just entirely wrong here. Refusal to make a case is not a scum tell. Bandwagoning in itself is not a scum tell. If others have made a case I agree with it is quite likely I will join that wagon. It's rather simple.. That's mafia basics.

As Ice's wagon gets bigger DP finds him more scummy

Error. As people posted a case on Ice, I found him more scummy.

I find it funny how you are claiming I am the "best lynch candidate" when your post is full of manipulative statements (such as this one saying I'm the best lynch candidate) and huge parts of your argument on me are just silly (Claiming bandwagoning = scum tell, misrepping me finding Ice more scummy as the wagon grew and coming to generalizations like these without actually backing it up)

You're right, I haven't posted a case on you, but essentially it is an OMGUS, because your case on me sucks. You are attacking me for a bunch of nonsense. My initial vote on you for actively lurking (ie: responding to questions, but not to Javert's play) was a stronger case than anything you have presented. I still don't believe that you were too busy at the time to even comment on it. You then proceed to tunnel on me for large parts of the day and make lol-worthy comments claiming that I am scum-buddies with magnus, who had started the case on me, and I had just got annoyed at. I mean you just seemed to want to avoid the obvious conclusions (ie: occam's razor), and come to some conclusion that some absurd connection exists and by pointing it out you are seeming more pro town.

At this point, I am fairly sure you are scum.

[RobCapone]

1. Yes refusal to make a case is a scumtell cause it's harder for scum to sound credible and it's much easier to just agree with others thoughts instead of posting original content (had been mentioned in other games I play as well and have callec out scum because if it and been right)

2. I am not "trying to make you look scummy". I am pointing out things you are doing that I think are suspicious and using those suspicions to make a case against you

3. You can clearly see you saying you find ice scummier as the game goes on and his wagon gets bigger. That is one of the things I of course I can't prove without knowing if you are scum but to call mute and ice scummy when they both had wagons forming, isn't something that should be ignored

4. OMGUS vote is funny

5. Tbh I don't care if you find me scummy or not and I can't defend myself against an OMGUS vote. The reasons I put down are valid enough to me, and You accuse me of making a manipulative statement by saying you are the best lynch, but in my opinion you are. I am not manipulating anyone else

I stand behind my case 100%

[DavidParker]

Agreeing with a good case (on someone who then flips scum) is now a scum tell??? I posted my input and reads and kept some to myself, as others did. I rethought my own reads as a result of other people's cases and found these players scummy. You seem to be trying to imply I've just town-followed the whole game... I agreed with a town case, and you are trying to sum up my entire play with this one act. You could say the same thing about countless people in this game.

[magnus_orion]

Haha, I'm going to assume scum killed him for that huge wall post of his. [/sarcasm]

We've no reason to believe there is two scum factions at this point, but I don't see why ICE would claim there is two, if there was only going to be one night kill. Yadee yah, pointless speculation etc etc.

Vote: RobCapone

what? why the vote? *skims over dp's posts again*
Did I miss something?

You're right, I haven't posted a case on you, but essentially it is an OMGUS, because your case on me sucks. You are attacking me for a bunch of nonsense. My initial vote on you for actively lurking (ie: responding to questions, but not to Javert's play) was a stronger case than anything you have presented. I still don't believe that you were too busy at the time to even comment on it. You then proceed to tunnel on me for large parts of the day and make lol-worthy comments claiming that I am scum-buddies with magnus, who had started the case on me, and I had just got annoyed at. I mean you just seemed to want to avoid the obvious conclusions (ie: occam's razor), and come to some conclusion that some absurd connection exists and by pointing it out you are seeming more pro town.

At this point, I am fairly sure you are scum.

So are you claiming your day-opening vote is for Rob active-lurking? Why didn't you try to make that at all clear in your first post? Also that's a fairly weak case for such certainty.

From the very first of those quotes you post, and it's even clearer in the second, DP clearly doesn't think Jav's "antics" are going to achieve anything. So he isnt "undermining" Javert - because he doesn't think there is anything to be undermined.

no.

I'm disappointed by players reactions to Javert's antics. They are searching for reactions and you guys are giving them - bad ones.

He is moving us out of RVS even if it's by drawing negative attention to himself. Now get your votes off him.

I'll be looking at the various reactions to Javert to see which is most scummy.

Emphasis mine. He believes he can get reads off of the reactions. Later, at some point, he did admit to attempting similar tactics to what javert did in other games.

^ This. Especially given that his 194 shows he was clearly still thinking about the game, including its saccharine ending of "I'm helping town as much as I can at this point because in serious honestly, I would prefer town to win than the other scum team. I want them caught." It reads more like mafia trying to appear to be town's best friend (a really weird thing in and of itself) than mafia actually wanting to help the town. Basically, I'm treating everything he said as likely BS.

I completely fail to see what mafia would gain by lying about this.
That being said, I don't think it really changes anything anyway, so for the most part I think we can ignore it.


Having said all this, I'm not ready to throw my vote on the DP wagon today, I want to go over things some more myself and try and evaluate the case on Rob and reassess the game a bit more.

[DavidParker]

Btw, @Edge: Your vote(?) on Rob had fail tags. Also it didn't include "Vote: ". (if it was indeed intended to be a vote)

My day opening post on Rob is not solely for active lurking. That's something I can't really

prove

, but just the impression I got. He could have easily commented on Javert at the time of his post, but chose to just answer Random Questions. Maybe that's all he had time to do, but I don't find it all that likely.

I think at the core of my vote on Rob, is that I don't see a very town-like case on me. Your case on me yesterday, while I know it to be wrong, didn't bother me because I could see how you got to your conclusion and I saw a train-of-thought that seemed to have town-like intentions attached to it. That was my interpretation of it. I don't see the same from Rob, from suggesting we are scum buddies, to just making a huge case on me for derailing a "reaction-fishing-ploy", he has just seemed to try to go for the absurd, almost as a way of seeming more pro-town, by posting these

original cases

and being involved in some

quality scum-hunting

, when really his cases just don't make sense coming from a town-aligned player with his experience.