Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[jmj3000]

DP, why are you voting me on the basis of reading everyone in iso?

[DavidParker]

1) What purpose is there to telling us you plan on reading everyone in ISO? It just you stating "oh i'm gonna do some SRS BUSINESS scum hunting... soon"
2) What is there actually to gain from an early mass-player iso on day 1 when we haven't seen a flip or even seen a claim?!??!!?!?!?

Basically. There is no reason to be doing mass iso's at this point in the game. IT doesn't help you. It doesn't help town. We need conciseness at this point and people being opinionated, not huge wall posts commenting on every post of every player.

The fact you felt the need to state you plan on doing these mass iso's seems scummy as if you are trying to earn town points, but will lurk as long as possible, and at the same time your worried about how you are perceived by town since you felt the need to state you will be doing these iso's when you can just do them without the comment.


I dunno, but to me this post just reeks of scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Stalling for time is indeed a scumtell. It's what I used to do as scum quite a bit.

Also pls no big wall posts.

[Scott Brosius]

Mass ISOs at this point is pretty pointless especially without a flip.

[RedCoyote]

Remember that we only have the one lynch, gentlemen.

[Scott Brosius]

Is Fuzzyman ever going to post?

[LimMePls]

1) What purpose is there to telling us you plan on reading everyone in ISO? It just you stating "oh i'm gonna do some SRS BUSINESS scum hunting... soon"
2) What is there actually to gain from an early mass-player iso on day 1 when we haven't seen a flip or even seen a claim?!??!!?!?!?

Basically. There is no reason to be doing mass iso's at this point in the game. IT doesn't help you. It doesn't help town. We need conciseness at this point and people being opinionated, not huge wall posts commenting on every post of every player.

The fact you felt the need to state you plan on doing these mass iso's seems scummy as if you are trying to earn town points, but will lurk as long as possible, and at the same time your worried about how you are perceived by town since you felt the need to state you will be doing these iso's when you can just do them without the comment.


I dunno, but to me this post just reeks of scum.

I agree with DP here. Not to mention doing mass ISO after finishing a reread on D1 seems completely illogical all on its own. You just reread, with everyone posting in context. What would you discover by then ISOing? Maybe later in the game I could see this, but I think DP's on to something. This is just a way for you to say "I'm going to continue lurking, but I'm going to say I'm doing all this time consuming stuff so it doesn't look like I'm lurking".

[LimMePls]

jmj wagon is a go people. Lots of people are all basically nodding in agreement, without actually voting.

Vote: jmj

[GhostWriter]

Based only on iso posts up to #3, Jmj is a good place to look tomorrow. I say tomorrow, because we likely will not have time today. The reason we should look there is because he makes post about nothing, and seemed to over-react to LF's vote, which was clearly a pressure vote. A pressure vote that wasn't correctly reacted to. Also, if I hear one more thing about ME not posting anything after having read this iso... My early on stuff is better than this. Say what you say about speculation, it was still better than this.


Lowell, I'd like to ask you what is wrong with my discussion of the flavor/setup? No blanket theories on flavor/setup discussion being bad, I'll just post a game in which it was good. What was specifically wrong with what I said in this game and why was it wrong for this game?


Stephoscope is another player who needs to be looked at. The vote on Bvoigt seems, quick frankly, very weak. And then he wonders why Bvoigt hasn't commented on it? Probably because it ridiculous.


Should PI be lynched and flip town, XScorpion is someone to consider as scum pushing her wagon. After noting a possible language barrier, he continues to badger her to clarify things. No, she is not pro-town, I agree. I just put her in the same boat as Fur though. So I feel it's a VI lynch, and XScorp seems to be pushing it a scummy way.



Yeah, I know, people were expecting more, but there isn't more. The game has been dominated by the understandable wagons of two VI's. Reading things based on those wagons is difficult at best, since they've both given plenty to vote them for. Especially PI, with her disappearance under pressure. She, of course, is playing the marytr role, hoping town can pick apart her wagon and find scum, but that won't be easy if she doesn't fight them so that we have something to look back over and pick apart.

That said, Jmj is the best place to look, with Stephoscope being a good second. Jmj edges out Steph due in part to the fact that he's actually here.

[GhostWriter]

This deserved a post all it's own.

VOTE: Jmj3000

[smargaret]

I found him scummy at the start of the game, and rereading while contributing nothing is a fancy way to spell lurking.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jmj

[LimMePls]

Just finished re-read/skim. ThAd is also scum. I'd be perfectly happy to lynch him as well. I'll post a case if people need it, but it's pretty obvious.

Our lynch today should be one of jmj or ThAd. Any other wagons that form (or get sudden boosts from nowhere) in the interim without REALLY good justification are going to look to me like counter wagons.

TOWN
LlamaFluff
nachomma8
Ghostwriter
RedCoyote
EGL
bvoigt
Artem
Lowell
Sathrois
DavidParker
Stephoscope
InflatablePie
Beasts of the Sea
XScorpion
Scott Brosius
Furcolow
Fuzzyman
PoisonIvy
smargaret
pappums rat
gonnano
ThAdmiral
jmj3000
SCUM

[bvoigt]

In #356, gonnano devotes an entire wall to defending himself, with almost no scumhunting. He seems to be focusing on survival rather than lynching scum. I want to see godfather-PI dead today, but he is also a good lynch.

PoisonIvy going MIA when pressure is put on her is scummy

How so? Lurking is frustrating, but not an alignment tell IMO.

I don't like the jmj wagon at all. What exactly is wrong with reading people in ISO? I've been making a list of my reads, and found it very useful.

[bvoigt]

And here is my previously mentioned reads post. Players in each category are in no particular order.

Town

Beasts of the Sea- His posts contain a lot of questioning and looking for information.
LynchMePls- ISO's #4 and #14 are examples of good scumhunting.
Furcolow- It's kind of just a gut read, but I think he's town.
XScorpion- He's been tunneling, but probably tunneling on scum.
bvoigt
LlamaFluff- I like that he was willing to unvote his main suspect in ISO #9 after a subtle towntell.
Ghostwriter- I don't see the scum motivation for his actions.
EGL- This one isn't a strong read, but I do get a general town feeling from him.
Scott Brosius- I like his ISO #3, especially the point about smargaret.
Nachomomma8- His catch-up post has some excellent analysis.
DavidParker- I don't think scum would call for a lynch in post #14 of the game.
Artem- He posts infrequently, but with lots of content and analysis.

Not Sure

pappums rat- He looks slightly scummy, but mostly just misguided.
Fuzzyman
Stephoscope
jmj3000
Lowell
Sathrois- I'd like more content from all of them.
RedCoyote- I'm leaning town, but don't like his vague vote on TheAd in ISO #5.
ThAdmiral- He's hard to read for some reason.

Scum

smargaret- ISO #8 is a stretch, and it feels like she's distancing from PI. I also don't like her latest vote.
PoisonIvy- I still think the Soviets thing was a slip, and her willingness to be investigated is also weird.
gonnano- I've already explained my suspicions of him, and he's also been focusing on defending himself rather than scumhunting.
InflatablePie- TMH claimed that he knew "the actual win cons" for scum, and IP likes to hop wagons.

[LlamaFluff]

shameless? yes
good vote? also yes

unvote
vote jmj

[smargaret]

Mod: Can we get a votecount please?

[bvoigt]

Thank you, Sotty! <3

Also, SNOW DAY!!! My heart goes out to you have have to be outside in extra cold weather, but down here in Texas when we get one inch of snow everything closes.

So now the university is closed for the day and I have nothing to do all day except stay warm. I think I'll break into that Rocky Blu-ray collection I got for Christmas...

Seriously? Up here, it's around 30 degrees today, and people are walking around in short sleeves. [/offtopic]

Just finished re-read/skim. ThAd is also scum. I'd be perfectly happy to lynch him as well. I'll post a case if people need it, but it's pretty obvious.

Yeah, please explain.

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count VIII

PoisonIvy - 4 -

XScorpion, bvoigt, Beasts of the Sea, RedCoyote

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope

Furcolow - 2 -

Sathoris, pappums rat

EGL - 1 -

Fuzzyman

ThAdmiral - 2 -

nachomma8, EGL

XScorpion - 1 -

PoisonIvy

GhostWriter - 3 -

ThAdmiral, Lowell, InflatablePie

pappums rat - 1 -

Scott Brosius

Lowell - 1 -

gonnano

InflatablePie - 1 -

Artem

gonnano - 1 -

Furcolow

jmj3000 - 5 -

DavidParker, LynchMePls, Ghostwriter, smargaret, LlamaFluff,

Not Voting - 1 -

jmj3000

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

[Scott Brosius]

In #356, gonnano devotes an entire wall to defending himself, with almost no scumhunting. He seems to be focusing on survival rather than lynching scum. I want to see godfather-PI dead today, but he is also a good lynch.

PoisonIvy going MIA when pressure is put on her is scummy

How so? Lurking is frustrating, but not an alignment tell IMO.

I don't like the jmj wagon at all. What exactly is wrong with reading people in ISO? I've been making a list of my reads, and found it very useful.

I agree lurking isn't an alignment tell on its own. But when someone is participating, gets lots of votes then vanishes. That's scummy.

[bvoigt]

I agree lurking isn't an alignment tell on its own. But when someone is participating, gets lots of votes then vanishes. That's scummy.

But he didn't vanish

after

getting lots of votes...all of them have come in the last page or so.

[Artem]

I enjoy putting my vote where it matters more. I suspect both of them, but would rather have GW be pressured as opposed to a single vote on smarg that will get probably little following.

So is that "both" being GW and smarg? What about your vote on Rat then?

Vote: InflatablePie

because he vote-hops like crazy.

Firstly, if anyone is really guilty of this, I think it's Fur. Secondly, I've like both rat and Ghost for scum right now. Thirdly, even if I concede that Pie's vote hopping is suspect (which I do not), do you really think Pie is the best place for your vote right now?

1. Sure, Fur also vote-hops, but the difference is that Fur seems to do it unprompted, whereas IP's votes are generally a response to or follow on somebody else (for example, when I mention the wagon speed). In that sense, they feel less sincere. Additionally, IP's votes don't really have much associated with them in terms of what the votees can respond to. If the votes were meant for pressure, then you have to give the player something they can respond to so that you can judge reaction.

@IP: Why were there no questions towards the people you were voting for?

2. Noted.

3. Well, no, I still like PI's wagon. The problem is that PI gave up on playing and ideally I'd like to see a replacement before it's pushed further. (Basically, for the same sentiment other players mentioned: you can't judge the reactions with the player not playing.)

That was at the time of my last post. Now, I also agree with the pressure on jmj. I don't necessarily think talking about reading people in ISO is a big deal, but not following through with the promise of content is. Jmj needs to do a solid catch-up post (I also agree that it needs to be concise), and the longer he delays it the more votes should be on his wagon. This is definitely where I will be moving my vote also when I feel like jmj had enough time and still hasn't delivered.

The wagons on Rat, GW, and gonnano are so-so. Sure, I'll agree that the lack of voting from GW, the over-defensiveness of gonnano, and whatever-the-hell-rat-is-getting-voted-for (I guess useless posts?) are suspicious, but I wonder how much of it is playstyle / personality. I think David nailed it with this one:

I think day 1 wagons and the day 1 lynch will typically be on someone rather randomly who gets bandwagoned for a slight slip-up or post-style/play-style issue anyways.

and I feel like those three fall into this category.

PI, on the other hand, had some very specific things that players asked her that she chose to ignore or gloss over. Likewise, jmj has a very specific thing that everybody wants from him. That is what makes those two good wagons.

I'm a little shocked at the amount of focus time wagon speed is getting in this game, especially considering at the time of this post pappums rat has a sum total of five votes. Unless you think a good number of scum (which would be suicide) are fueling this wagon then what is the point?

If a wagon gains speed quickly for little-to-no reason, then it's a suspicious thing. Saying that scum wouldn't do it because it's suicide is WIFOM.

[Scott Brosius]

I agree lurking isn't an alignment tell on its own. But when someone is participating, gets lots of votes then vanishes. That's scummy.

But he didn't vanish

after

getting lots of votes...all of them have come in the last page or so.

Are we both talking about Poison Ivy? She had 9 votes on page 3.

[bvoigt]

I agree lurking isn't an alignment tell on its own. But when someone is participating, gets lots of votes then vanishes. That's scummy.

But he didn't vanish

after

getting lots of votes...all of them have come in the last page or so.

Are we both talking about Poison Ivy? She had 9 votes on page 3.

*facepalm* I know your original point was about PI, but somehow after the JMJ wagon I got it in my head that we were talking about him. Never mind.

[jmj3000]

Jesus christ people. I have been dealing with the city for the past few days, only just recently getting a chance to do any reading of any kind. I always do ISO reads when I am doing catch-up,not matter what day it is. I also tend to analyze votes on day 1. The reason I do ISO reads is I tend to skim posts when I am reading a whole page of different people's posts, so I focus on Just one persons posts at a time. You don't like it, deal with it, you will get a catch-up post in my own way.

[pappums rat]

@ everyone: i have asked cml to replace me out of this game. i am sorry about this, but i currently have 3 f's in college, and the amount of time i spend on this site is the main reason for it. prior to joining ms.net, i only had 2 b's in my history at college. i really hate asking for replacement and being a burden on cml, but with my schedule, it is something i have to do. i will be reducing the number of games i join and hope to no longer be a problem for mods. sorry again for this.