Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:05 am

Post by LuckayLuck »

Shadow Dancer wrote:
LuckayLuck wrote:I agree completely at Shadow Dancer's accusations against Antitown. I read it all the same way. Especially his question of "Please teach me how I should react to a scumclaim." That is such a methodical way of saying it...a mechanical way...a canned way.
And we all know what role methodically, mechanically, and canned plays this game.
Sorry, but since you reference me here I have to insist on this:
The "scumclaim" part is obviously utter bullshit...
And I hope your town play is also methodical in some way.
What is scummy about Anti is that he seems rather focussed on what would keep him out of the line of fire instead of actually making a case.
did I word this poorly? You might have mis-attributed my attack on antitown to you. To reiterate:

I agree with you, Shadow Dancer, on your points on Antitown, precisely because he seems especially carefully focused and methodical at trying to keep himself out of the line of fire. Keep up the good work, Shadow Dancer.
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:05 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

@Lucky: Keep in mind that the scum team is pretty strong, having a cop and an RB, thus delaying PR claims/uses on town side will definitely have its drawbacks.
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:09 am

Post by LuckayLuck »

Shadow Dancer wrote:@Lucky: Keep in mind that the scum team is pretty strong, having a cop and an RB, thus delaying PR claims/uses on town side will definitely have its drawbacks.
what is the drawback in having scum kill the town who we didn't know is the soul-redeemed villager vs. having scum kill the town who we do know is the soul-redeemed villager?
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:11 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

The drawback is the drawback of PRs not being able to perform their powers, tracker not being able to share his/her knowledge and every one not having confirmed townies to eliminate from the lynch pool.
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Post by crypto »

Unvote. Vote: LuckayLuck.
GG.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:23 pm

Post by Ythill »

I made a mistake in giving my reads last night. For some reason, I was logging Sim's scumtells in the towntell column. Blame the cyclobenzaprine. Anyway, I went back and proofread my notes. Move Sim to the null-leaning scum category (where SD is) and they are otherwise accurate.

I see that people are asking me to explain my town reads. That's something I rarely (if ever) do and I'm not going to start now.

VPB is scum for several reasons, the most important of which are:
  • Aggression in response to a fair question #34.
  • Cognitive dissonance, in that a town-aligned player with his stated views should be more suspicious of crypto by #78.
  • His scummy lean toward voting for the lead wagon in #108.
Luck wrote:I argue we want the vig, redeemed soul, and tracker to claim at one day before must lynch.
Why? So one of your teammates can CC to force a coinflip @ LYLO?

Thing is, other than being semi-confirmed, both of those roles are entirely useless. It could be argued that the vig is detrimental to us in the late game because he can put us in a situation where all of the townies
must
vote together to lynch scum. Meanwhile, having the tracker alive in LYLO gives us at least as much info as the other roles combined, with the potential of much more info (if we lynch scum or the tracker targets them before that point).

Noting here that a town-aligned player with your views should be accusing me of role fishing at this point. Why haven't you?

On a completely unrelated note, I find it entertaining that I am in a game with both Fate and Luck.
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:26 pm

Post by Ythill »

Ohai crypto. A special VPB scumtell for you. His entrance and early game here feel different than in OR&C.

And yay for a wagon on scum!

UNVOTE: VPB
VOTE: LuckayLuck
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:04 pm

Post by Jarti »

Sweet, luck today, alamaster tomorrow and then it's easy mode imo.

@mod: since town wins with 2 scum dead & one on the guillotine; that means if we lynch 2 scum and have a 3rd scum on guillotine the game will immediately end without us having to play out that next day while the 3rd scum is already gonna die, right?


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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:15 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

Percy wrote:Still, crypto did say that he thought that the guillotined player didn't have a vote, and VP didn't say boo about it. Add in:
VP Baltar wrote:
3) Town players are more likely to be thinking about how this setup can best be approached in the early stages of the game.

Hmmm.

While I'm thinking about this, here are my thoughts on the setup:
I've been wanting to play in a game with Percy for a long time just so he could bust out stuff like this and pwnzorz scum.

This combined with the attack on Concession makes me think he is scum. I didn't like the Concession attack because even Confession was being dumb, it was clearly noobdumb and not scumdumb. Add in Percy's tell and it looks like he is scum busy looking for a nice, easy mislynch.

Unvote. Vote: VPB


Ythill's arguments are good too.

I don't get why LuckayLuck is scum. The setup spec is bad, for sure, but I don't think scum would blatantly post such a dumb idea (think about it: when you're scum in a game with a competent town and open setup, do you sit around thinking about how to appear town or how to secretly trick town into following a bad plan…obviously the former). If she's scummy for other reasons I don't see those either, really.

Jarti seems to fit the profile of the "lurkerscum" pretty well.
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:22 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Concission wrote:
VP Baltar wrote: On what grounds do you think it's random? Why is it a generic question?

On what ground should I think it is not?
Do you never answer questions directly? Jesus. You should not think it's random on the grounds that odds are I'm town and I was trying to generate discussion. On what grounds do you think it's random? Why is it a generic question?
Concission wrote:Your reasoning is very hard not to laugh at. You intend to ask a specific person what their opinions of the Set-Up are then brand that person as town for stating their opinions of the Set-Up? What would you think scum would do, ignore you?
Try to contain yourself. I believe the scum would have been more inclined to sluff the question off with a 'I dunno' instead of trying to help the town. Sure, crypto got it wrong really, but it seemed like an honest effort at least. Certainly doesn't make him confirmed town by any means, but I work by observing and taking note of things.
Concission wrote:Then you go on to call people who are scum-hunting scum because they didn't reply to your question specified to only Crypto.
orly? Where did this happen? Quotes please. Don't ignore this.
Percy wrote:I don't get his vote on Concission, though.
I'll explain since people seem to be missing it. As I said earlier, I feel that Concission is making a mountain out of a molehill. Look at her iso at this point; it's highly concerned with me asking crypto and not everyone my question. I'm also scum for this. P. ridiculous for a townie to actually believe that, imo.
Percy wrote:Still, crypto did say that he thought that the guillotined player didn't have a vote, and VP didn't say boo about it.
Yes, perhaps I should have jumped on him, but it did seem an honest effort even if it was horribly wrong. It's a gut feeling.
LuckayLuck wrote:I agree completely at Shadow Dancer's accusations against Antitown. I read it all the same way. Especially his question of "Please teach me how I should react to a scumclaim." That is such a methodical way of saying it...a mechanical way...a canned way. And we all know what role methodically, mechanically, and canned plays this game.
Baaaaah bahhhhhhhhhh
LuckayLuck wrote:I argue we want the vig, redeemed soul, and tracker to claim at one day before must lynch. (or, if they're about to get lynched)
Even with random shots, they'd probably be dead at that point. If they are claiming to be confirmed, then it's better to do that earlier rather than later. However, I don't think day two is necessarily the day for that to happen.
Ythill wrote:VPB is scum for several reasons, the most important of which are:
1)Aggression in response to a fair question #34.
2)Cognitive dissonance, in that a town-aligned player with his stated views should be more suspicious of crypto by #78.
3)His scummy lean toward voting for the lead wagon in #108.
1) People that ask dumb questions in response to things that are actually trying to get the game moving get my ire.
2) Meh, not necessarily. Read my above post to Percy. crypto explained himself as having had very little sleep by that point. Maybe he's lying, maybe he's not. I'm inclined to think not based upon my feeling from his words.
3) This one is completely ludicrous because I was one of the people actually questioning antitown. See post 87 onward. It's pretty clear that I'm giving AT the benefit of the doubt and trying to get him to explain his Fate stance...as opposed to several people that came later and essentially sheeped onto him.

As far as meta from your game, that's ludicrous. 1) You were the mod of that game and had perfect knowledge of the setup, therefore you may have found that I looked more accurate or whatever in my scumhunting early on because you knew who the scum were. 2) You have not played with me as far as I remember, so you're using half a meta from a single game at best. That's complete bunk and you've been around long enough to know that.
Jarti wrote:Sweet, luck today, alamaster tomorrow and then it's easy mode imo.
What? who the hell are you? Why is luck scum? Why is alamaster scum?
AGM wrote:I've been wanting to play in a game with Percy for a long time just so he could bust out stuff like this and pwnzorz scum.
Meh, see my Percy response.
AGM wrote:I didn't like the Concession attack because even Confession was being dumb, it was clearly noobdumb and not scumdumb.
Add in Percy's tell and it looks like he is scum busy looking for a nice, easy mislynch.
Really? Cause tunneling over something irrelevant is a pretty common noobscum tactic. I assume you think Concission is town, right? As far as the bolded, how is Concission an easy mislynch when no one seemingly agrees with my vote being there?

@Simenon - I've never played with you, but I've always though you were a pretty bright dude. Or at least that is the air you give off. I'm pretty disappointed with your contributions so far and that bothers me a lot. Can I get your comments on Concission, myself and Ythill please?
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:43 pm

Post by crypto »

Ythill wrote:His entrance and early game here feel different than in OR&C.
I agree, but I don't think it's necessarily a matter of alignment.

In other news, Jarti is scummy as hell.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:53 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

Ythill wrote:
Luck wrote:I argue we want the vig, redeemed soul, and tracker to claim at one day before must lynch.
Why? So one of your teammates can CC to force a coinflip @ LYLO?

Thing is, other than being semi-confirmed, both of those roles are entirely useless. It could be argued that the vig is detrimental to us in the late game because he can put us in a situation where all of the townies
must
vote together to lynch scum. Meanwhile, having the tracker alive in LYLO gives us at least as much info as the other roles combined, with the potential of much more info (if we lynch scum or the tracker targets them before that point).

Noting here that a town-aligned player with your views should be accusing me of role fishing at this point. Why haven't you?
That's a good observation, I should accuse you of role fishing if I think you're mafia. I don't know whether or not you're mafia at the moment, so I don't go that far; I just say "I think this is a bad plan."

You're exactly right. The roles are entirely useless other than being semi-confirmed.

I like having semi-confirmed just before we go into must lynch, because then we have the most possible "confirmed" townies before we have to make do-or-die decisions.

Isn't this just a difference in philosophy? If you think the redeemed soul and the vigilante shouldn't claim on day one right now, then you shouldn't have much against having the redeemed soul and vigilante claim one day before must lynch. Note that I specifically said one day before must lynch as opposed to must lynch because then, as some have feared, counter claiming can occur. But if a mafia wants to counter claim a day before must lynch? That's great. Let them.

My stance on the roles: they're all quite worthless, but they are, at the very least, semi-confirmed. I would like these semi-confirmed players to be alive, as opposed to dead, which is why I encourage claiming as late as possible (though not as late as must lynch - just the day before). If you agree that they shouldn't claim on day one, then surely my stance makes sense.
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:00 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

LuckayLuck wrote:
Jarti wrote:okay I've
skimmed
selectively looked at the ISOs of anyone who stuck out
read now

and I see we haven't lynched
LuckayLuck
scum yet, let's fix that VOTE: LuckayLuck
Am I getting too close to your scumbuddy, Antitown?
Why avoid the question Jarti, and why reiterate your vote on me again with such ferocity?
Jarti wrote:Sweet, luck today, alamaster tomorrow and then it's easy mode imo.

@mod: since town wins with 2 scum dead & one on the guillotine; that means if we lynch 2 scum and have a 3rd scum on guillotine the game will immediately end without us having to play out that next day while the 3rd scum is already gonna die, right?


~``tick tock tick tock lick luck and clean his clock``~
Your actions truly make me believe that I am on the round track and that you're just trying to 'drive momentum' on my lynch to steer a lynch away from your buddy Antitown.

I would also like to point out Jarti's "fake confidence" - on an early half of day one, Jarti is already saying: "ha-hah! As long as we lynch 2 scum and put the 3rd one on the guillotine, the game ends!" Yes, it can be a legitimate question and I can even see some strategy implications of such a question; however, to put it in the same post as "it's easy mode" makes my rendition of Jarti's statement seem correct.
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:03 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

crypto wrote:
Unvote. Vote: LuckayLuck.
GG.
crypto wrote:
Ythill wrote:His entrance and early game here feel different than in OR&C.
I agree, but I don't think it's necessarily a matter of alignment.

In other news, Jarti is scummy as hell.
'Scum partnerships' shouldn't come on too strongly on day one, so I can understand how you would vote me AND think jarti is scummy despite jarti going after me so strongly (and me going after him, too)

I'm just pointing out though, that if you think Jarti is scummy as hell, that I would hope it gives you pause on voting me. (I don't even know your reasoning for voting me. GG?)
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:06 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

crypto wrote:
Unvote. Vote: Antitown.
I'm still leery of Percy but then I'm leery of about 2492 players right now.
crypto wrote:I am so fed up with easy target arguments. DOES IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT EASY TARGETS MAY BE EASY TARGETS BECAUSE THEY SUCK AT PLAYING SCUM.
I mean seriously crypto, your vote on me makes no sense considering we seem to be completely aligned. Also annoys me since I think you're a townie.

crypto wrote:There's so much buddying in this game I might be getting sick. I have a few town reads but at the moment I can't be bothered to chop through the bullshit and dig up something that I can twist into looking meaningful.
And I'm aware of the irony here.
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:13 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

***
@mod: since town wins with 2 scum dead & one on the guillotine; that means if we lynch 2 scum and have a 3rd scum on guillotine the game will immediately end without us having to play out that next day while the 3rd scum is already gonna die, right?
This is correct.

ConfidAnon has yet to pick up his PMs and is being replaced.


Vote Count #5

LuckayLuck:
Jarti, Simenon, crypto, Ythill (L-4)
Antitown:
LuckayLuck, Fate, Shadow Dancer,
crypto

VP Baltar:
Concission,
Ythill
, AlmasterGM
Fate:
Percy
Concission:
VP Baltar
Simenon:
RedCoyote
Percy:
crypto

crypto:
AlmasterGM



Not voting:
ConfidAnon, Antitown

On guillotine:
No one.

Deadline is on Feburary 27th, 2011, at 11:00 PM central time.

With no new votes until deadline, LuckayLuck will be placed on guillotine.

Vi Style Activity Checker (and a hearty hello to anyone quoting me):
AlmasterGM (0) l Antitown (0) l Concission (0) l ConfidAnon (2!) l crypto (0) l Fate (0) l Jarti (0) l LuckayLuck (0) l Percy (0) l RedCoyote (0) l Shadow Dancer (0) l Simenon (0) l VP Baltar (0) l Ythill (0)

***
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:27 pm

Post by Fate »

This is the worse page I've seen in a long time.
LuckayLuck: Jarti, Simenon, crypto, Ythill (L-4)
?
Antitown: LuckayLuck, Fate, Shadow Dancer,
!
VP Baltar: Concission, Ythill, AlmasterGM
?!
Fate: Percy
?!?!??!
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:02 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Zoraster replaces ConfidAnon. Welcome, zoraster!
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:03 pm

Post by Fate »

Flaker replacing flakes? What kind of modding strategy is that >_>
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:09 pm

Post by zoraster »

aw fate. so good to play with you.
.
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:11 pm

Post by Fate »

Looking forward to it <3
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:32 pm

Post by Ythill »

Luck wrote:My stance on the roles: they're all quite worthless, but they are, at the very least, semi-confirmed. I would like these semi-confirmed players to be alive, as opposed to dead, which is why I encourage claiming as late as possible (though not as late as must lynch - just the day before).
Meh. It seems we are arguing the same thing. When I wrote that list of strats, I mistakenly thought of "three available" mislynches as meaning that the third lynch is LYLO, but it means that the 4th lynch is. So, yeah... as early as D3. However, earlier claims do protect the tracker, who is far more valuable, and have the potential to flesh out a bloc.

@Fate:
Luck and VPB are scum. Anti is probably not. Deal with it.
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Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:38 pm

Post by Fate »

Luck is as obvtown as it gets. I have no interest in a VP lynch today.

Anti is scummy as all hell, and Jarti is even WORSE. There's no way you can seriously advocate a VP lynch over a Jarti one at this point in time.
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:43 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

Ythill wrote:
Luck wrote:My stance on the roles: they're all quite worthless, but they are, at the very least, semi-confirmed. I would like these semi-confirmed players to be alive, as opposed to dead, which is why I encourage claiming as late as possible (though not as late as must lynch - just the day before).
Meh. It seems we are arguing the same thing. When I wrote that list of strats, I mistakenly thought of "three available" mislynches as meaning that the third lynch is LYLO, but it means that the 4th lynch is. So, yeah... as early as D3. However, earlier claims do protect the tracker, who is far more valuable, and have the potential to flesh out a bloc.

@Fate:
Luck and VPB are scum. Anti is probably not. Deal with it.
Earlier claims don't protect the tracker. Earlier claims, if you think the scum want to target the tracker, mean that they have a smaller pool to work from.

Your "luck and vpb are scum" definitive statement doesn't cut it by the way. What do you have against me?
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:32 pm

Post by zoraster »

Simenon is scum. He points out a case on someone then immediately hedges with a potential meta-defense. His fixation on Ythill posting thoughts about the setup before posting thoughts about the game is bizarre and a half-ass attack.

I agree about crypto. Town.

I'm less sure about the consensus on Ythill, but that hardly matters. He's not our lynch for now.

VP Baltar comes across as mildly scummy to me at this point. But I see little reason to drive his wagon for now.

Luck isn't as scummy as people have made out, I don't think. That's a gut call, but I think people are stretching to make it stick. That's fine in the beginning, but I see more promising avenues.

Concission is combative without providing any real help to the town. I suggest people go back and actually read his "contributions" to the game. It's not just that he's had trouble getting purchase on the game as can happen, but it's that he's trying to seem active by picking some pretty pointless things to quibble over. Admittedly, his posts have come earlier on in the game. I'm looking for improvement from him, but I'm saying scum for now.

So for me that leaves Concission and Simenon as the best lynch candidates. I'd love to hear more from Jarti and to a lesser extent RedC and Almaster.

But for now, I'm good with:

VOTE: Simenon
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