Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

Hiraki · Post Post #175 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:05 pm

@MOD: Surprise_Carcinogen is voting Bgg, I believe.

You appear to be right. The sneaky little vote was hiding on the right side of the page

Vote count fix'd.

bgg1996 · Post Post #176 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:42 pm

It might be because he is scum and therefore knows for a fact that
I'm not scum.
Or maybe he is actually smart (doubtful)

Xine · Post Post #177 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:57 pm

bgg1996,
hey there, I was almost convinced that you are indeed a VT (in which case, the "textbook" says to lynch you anyway), but I just couldn't get over these things you said, in this order a few posts apart, no matter which angle I take looking at this the story simply does not add up. discuss

bgg1996 wrote:
Ant_to_the_max wrote:bgg1996 what is your experience playing Mafia?
Around the middle-end of 2009 I played a few games on a rather inexperienced site. A bit after that I played a newbie game on this site as a... Roleblocker? It was a mafia role, I remember. I was about to lose, but I won because the time ran out.

bgg1996 wrote:Does this mafia even have roles other than regular townies and mafia members?

Hiraki · Post Post #178 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:21 pm

Nice catch.

I'm not sure what to think here. Logic really wants me to vote him, but gut says that Nathanael is scum. I'll wait for Nathanael though.

Xine · Post Post #179 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:39 pm

Nathanael is getting a good amount of attention, I am finding myself a bit hung up on the "back into RVS" that he pulled early in the game, his explanation does not jive with me, because IMO a vote for "No Lynch" is not

slightly

scummy.
This could be a connection between him and GreyICE.

Xine · Post Post #180 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:41 pm

PS, tell your logic that a long day one makes more info for endgame

Hiraki · Post Post #181 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:43 pm

Eh. Maybe. Let's not get too far ahead though. I'd rather find one scum before going for relations.

P.E. My logic responds that it doesn't care about information. It cares about killing scum, no matter what the cost.

Neruz · Post Post #182 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:23 pm

We have plenty of free lynches left, we can always lynch Nath if bgg does end up flipping VI.

bgg1996 · Post Post #183 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:23 pm

Xine wrote:bgg1996,
hey there, I was almost convinced that you are indeed a VT (in which case, the "textbook" says to lynch you anyway), but I just couldn't get over these things you said, in this order a few posts apart, no matter which angle I take looking at this the story simply does not add up. discuss
bgg1996 wrote:
Ant_to_the_max wrote:bgg1996 what is your experience playing Mafia?
Around the middle-end of 2009 I played a few games on a rather inexperienced site. A bit after that I played a newbie game on this site as a... Roleblocker? It was a mafia role, I remember. I was about to lose, but I won because the time ran out.

bgg1996 wrote:Does this mafia even have roles other than regular townies and mafia members?

I meant this game in particular.
The last game said that it was going to have 1 of four set-ups. I guess it just didn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Say whatever you want, I'm one of the good guys.

Surprise_Carcinogen · Post Post #184 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:47 pm

Alright, if I was sure before, I'm just about a hundred times more sure now. I have NEVER seen someone innocent go to so much trouble to point out that they're innocent. It's almost unnerving. It means that either a(the most likely) he's nervous new scum, or b) he's WAY more inexperienced then he claims, and would likely do little more then obfuscate the came later, and not just by casting doubt on his early plays, but also by getting in the way of debate and logic.

GreyICE · Post Post #185 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:57 pm

Xine wrote:PS, tell your logic that a long day one makes more info for endgame

A long day 1 is great for endgame stuff, but it doesn't always happen.

The thing is, sometimes a long day 1 is intercepted by something that makes you believe 1 player is just scum. And once the consensus is that a player is obvscum and they are scum, the day gets weird. Most townies lose the motivation to stick around and discuss who scum #2 is, other scum bus and lurk, and everything gets ridiculous.

The only thing better than a long day 1 is starting day 2 at 9:2 or 7:2:1 with a chance for your PRs to do their thing and scum to screw up and target other scum or someone they really shouldn't target or something.

Hiraki · Post Post #186 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:34 am

I'm done with these "I'm the good guy. Believe me or suck it." responses.

Unvote, Vote: Bgg

Someone hammer I'm done.

Neruz · Post Post #187 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:13 am

And just to clarify for anyone who wasn't paying attention, bgg is now at

L-1

GreyICE · Post Post #188 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:09 am

Xine wrote:Nathanael is getting a good amount of attention, I am finding myself a bit hung up on the "back into RVS" that he pulled early in the game, his explanation does not jive with me, because IMO a vote for "No Lynch" is not
slightly
scummy.
This could be a connection between him and GreyICE.

Wow, you'd really dislike how I started 1117 then

Llamarble · Post Post #189 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:19 am

UNVOTE: bgg
I don't disagree with this wagon, but I've hardly read anyone else properly so I don't want a hammer before I've really analyzed 2/3 of the players.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #190 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:43 am

Is it still too early to use meta? If it's not too early, I'm calling GreyICE scum right now. If it is too early....well, I can always wait a couple of pages.

GreyICE · Post Post #191 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:05 am

DeathRowKitty wrote:Is it still too early to use meta? If it's not too early, I'm calling GreyICE scum right now. If it is too early....well, I can always wait a couple of pages.

Well I wouldn't mind if you shared, sure. What's the juicy tidbit of meta awesomeness that proves that I'm scum?

Xine · Post Post #192 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:11 am

Yes GreyICE, I do, I have never seen any town player vote for no lynch on day one, and your play since has done nothing to change my read. If a wagon got going on you, I would happily be the hammer. You seem like a nice enough person, I don't blame you for being scum...
Llam, glad you unvoted, I really liked Hiraki's point earlier that we should wait to hear Nathaneal's defense of bgg before any hammer falls.
Nath, will you please take the time to post your town case on bgg so we can get on with this decision?

GreyICE · Post Post #193 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:29 am

If someone does a thread check, they'll find me in several ongoing games, one in the mini theme forum, two in the mini normal forum that are ongoing.

Tell me about that again, Xine?

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #194 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:41 am

GreyICE wrote:Well I wouldn't mind if you shared, sure. What's the juicy tidbit of meta awesomeness that proves that I'm scum?

Uhhh...the fact that you're playing differently than you did in the game I've seen you in as town and in the game I just did a brief skim of your iso from in which you were also town?

GreyICE · Post Post #195 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:59 am

DeathRowKitty wrote:
GreyICE wrote:Well I wouldn't mind if you shared, sure. What's the juicy tidbit of meta awesomeness that proves that I'm scum?
Uhhh...the fact that you're playing differently than you did in the game I've seen you in as town and in the game I just did a brief skim of your iso from in which you were also town?

Huh, I have no idea what game I was in with you. If it's ongoing just pop a number or something.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #196 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:01 am

I never said I was in a game with you :s

I read Mini 1105 though (first ever 13p mini normal) and did a quick iso of you in Mini 1117 (ongoing).

GreyICE · Post Post #197 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:07 am

DeathRowKitty wrote:I never said I was in a game with you :s

I read Mini 1105 though (first ever 13p mini normal) and did a quick iso of you in Mini 1117 (ongoing).

Heh, well then you know how weird games can open if you read 1117. I'd just like to note that 1105 and my newbie game I wasn't at all effective at catching scum and have changed my play somewhat in response (to be fair, I did NOT anticipate Daytalk, a blind spot I am trying to work past). This site metas and plays differently. And 1117, well, you're right I was town, but there is a caveat there that impacted my scumhunting game. Not discussing an ongoing game though.

Nathanael · Post Post #198 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:48 am

Neruz wrote:Thus i shall vote Nathanael. I'm not quite sure he's the best lynch for today, but he's shaping up to be a pretty good one and is definitely better than bgg.

Nathanael's voting pattern concerns me. His first three votes are clearly RVS and should be treated as such, but his fourth vote for Xine came in after RVS was mostly over and was
blatantly
nothing more than hopping on a wagon.
I'm also disliking his interactions with Hiraki and later DRK; he doesn't appear to actually be responding to questions posed to him so much as trying to deflect them away and his logic in a couple of answers (such as the reason why he feels voting No Lynch in RVS is scummy) is questionable at best.

to the first part, yes, I joined the Xine wagon for two reasons. first, I thought Grey's case was better than nothing and second I believe there is nothing like a good wagon to get out of RVS. so I "blatantly" wagoned Xine.
Do you seriously not think that voting someone for voting No Lynch in RVS is at least better than a randomvoting (you would LOVE this post if that's really what you are saying)? I'll explain again. it is quite simple. assume EVERYBODY did the same thing: what would we get? a no lynch and no information.

The deflections are really concerning me, every time i look at Nathanael's ISO i notice more places where instead of answering a quoted question, he deflected it with a question of his own.

must have missed the questions. could you please point them out?

________

To see why bgg is quite likely town, put yourself in their situation. We know for sure that they are quite unexperienced and new to the mechanics on this site. Now, I absolutely do not think that newbscum would cry out as much. especially I really can't see a newbie pulling a gambit as in post 97.
Also I think post 127 does not come from newbscum. newbscum knows that they cannot possibly "prove" that they are townie, because they aren't. but put yourself in the shoes of newbtown. they think "omg, they are trying to lynch me, but I KNOW that I am town. I must prove it to them".
I usually am quite reliant to give the "newbie pass" to cover up scummy things, but I think what bgg did was completely anti-town (claiming VT and such.) but there is nothing actually scummy in there.

________
The major reason for me to believe Xine to be scum is post 121: I really see this as blatant opportunism on the easiest wagon (a newbtown.) What I didn't like especially about this post is the delay between bgg's vote on Xine and Xine's response. To me this really indicates scum wanting to first check the general atmosphere before trying to push the wagon.
_______
however, I am recently reevaluating S_C and I believe him to be scummier than Xine.
What I find particularly scummy is post 184, where he advocates to lynch bgg regardless of alignment because he/she is going to be a liability later anyway. while it is true that bgg probably won't help us catching scum, I still believe that lynching scum >>> lynching useless townie.
especially considering the whole wagon that's already going on on bgg, I really think S_C is just pushing for a mislynch.

UNVOTE: VOTE: S_C

GreyICE · Post Post #199 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:01 am

Nathaneal, question. Answer this, and I might have a reason to agree with you.

There are 3 players in the game. You are one of them, bgg another. We have lynched 2 scum, one of whom aggressively came after bgg, and one of whom ignored him as a newbie. The other player is scummy, but not terribly so. bgg has played at about this level the entire game. Do you lynch bgg?