Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[inHimshallibe]

Vote Count

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 2 Vote Tally

11 players remain; 6 votes needed for a lynch.

AntB (4)

- Bella, DavidParker, andrew94, smashbro_of_the_SSS

smashbro_of_the_SSS (3)

- lord_hur, brokenscraps, Egg

andrew94 (1)

- AntB

lord_hur (1)

- Looker

Yet to vote (2): Archer, farside22
==============================

Prodding

: Egg, brokenscraps

Note

: Lost modding powers for the moment. Will be able to edit posts soon, hopefully.

[Looker]

I'm sorry guys, but I can't put time into this game. Was trying to hold on and hope i would have more time to post, but apparently not.

mod, replace me

as for any final thoughts, I still think antb is scum, and im thinking town for bella and davidparker. there is a grey area for pretty much everyone else. looker's vote back to me looked weird to me though, considering that he recently said he thought i was townie (for pretty bad reasons I might add. the fact that my lack of activity can be accounted for?)

• Wrong. I disliked how conveniently and with so much ease everyone jumped on your wagon despite your absence being nothing more than school life and the fact that no one brought that up.

@AntB - spam attack that allowed you to post in several other games but not this one? Bit strange to say the least

@looker - you're on the fence wrt Egg? Sure, he may be a rather useless townie due to lack of, well, everything, but he did out scum when batt false RC'd. So how can you be unsure of him? Surely if Egg is lying then after the batt lynch the real real jailkeeper would've come forward so that we could likely lynch another scum?

• You're absolutely right; I didn't think of that. Thanks.

This pretty much confirms you as town to me. I find it hard to see scum thinking they could get away with pushing doubt on a JK claim after that claim lead to their buddy getting lynched.

• Where are you?
  
• UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps

---

• RE:lord_hur...again
  • I didn't say "making sure someone is lynched no matter what" was townish; I said it was moreso determined and persistant than scummy.
  • You say "And?" as if you read nothing of what I posted but expect me to eyeball you every step of the way. I didn't care what you posted about Battousai because it wasn't directed at me, unlike the reasons I posted at/to you regarding why I found your move suspicious. ITT paranoid bullshit is bullshit.

[AntB]

@IHSIB
spammer

@All
I claimed VT so speculation about me claiming Town PR is pointless and detracts from useful discussion. Scum score an easy lynch and Farside is probably the ring-leader. Her unvote is realisation that if I am quick-lynched she would be first in the firing line. We also have an attempt to hammer a nail in the coffin just before this:

Andrew is scum, farside is leaning that way.

Oh look who's following the crowd with no actual case again.

Case? You turned on me quickly D1 with little case yourself, you've riding the living crap out of my wagon all day so far, purely because I missed Battousi.
Your case is so good, even I'm convinced I'm scum(!) x)

Remaining scumteam is 2 of 3: Bella ("Okay, can we please get on with lynching AntB now?"), Andrew(Look at the case), Farside22 (slip and backtrack).

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Archer

[farside22]

@IHSIB
spammer

@All
I claimed VT so speculation about me claiming Town PR is pointless and detracts from useful discussion. Scum score an easy lynch and Farside is probably the ring-leader. Her unvote is realisation that if I am quick-lynched she would be first in the firing line. We also have an attempt to hammer a nail in the coffin just before this:

Andrew is scum, farside is leaning that way.

Oh look who's following the crowd with no actual case again.

Case? You turned on me quickly D1 with little case yourself, you've riding the living crap out of my wagon all day so far, purely because I missed Battousi.
Your case is so good, even I'm convinced I'm scum(!) x)

Remaining scumteam is 2 of 3: Bella ("Okay, can we please get on with lynching AntB now?"), Andrew(Look at the case), Farside22 (slip and backtrack).

1) I rode Nacho all day yesterday your point?
2) I made a case on you based on your play and lack of scum hunting which is still happening. I also pointed out how you in your post town games, push and question and push more on those you find scummy which is sorely missing in this game
So far nothing you said has changed my view. Part of my case was also Batt's and your lack of comments in regards to the case and pushing a Bella lynched instead. Thanks as always proving that you are not reading the game.
Lets add OMGUS to more bad scum hunting to the list.
Also I would like there to be a replacement for SoS in place before the day ends. What's your hurry?

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

[brokenscraps]

Where are you?

Busy couple of days.

UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps

You responded to this post several pages ago, what changed now? Do you usually move your vote around so much when there's a large bandwagon?

---

AntB's meta has been mentioned as part of the case against him, I've played a game with him before (Mini 1091) with him as VT where he didn't play that differently. What are the big pointers you're looking at?

[lord_hur]

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

You sounded very positive when you said this (even repeating it twice), and yet now it's "I think". This sounds inconsistent to me, and I don't like inconsistencies, especially in an attack/defense. It can mean you're scum flailing around or weak attacking.

Oh, and there is no "turn around vote". I liberally use votes for pressure, as I'm sure you've noticed. This doesn't mean in any way that smashbro_of_the_SSS('s replacement) has suddenly become townish to me.

[farside22]

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

You sounded very positive when you said this (even repeating it twice), and yet now it's "I think". This sounds inconsistent to me, and I don't like inconsistencies, especially in an attack/defense. It can mean you're scum flailing around or weak attacking.

You sounded certain that I was wrong with how I took your question. So it turns into an "I think".

[farside22]

Where are you?

Busy couple of days.

UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps

You responded to this post several pages ago, what changed now? Do you usually move your vote around so much when there's a large bandwagon?

---

AntB's meta has been mentioned as part of the case against him, I've played a game with him before (Mini 1091) with him as VT where he didn't play that differently. What are the big pointers you're looking at?

You want to link the game in that you were in with him as an example?

[farside22]

AntB as town:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 19&start=0

AntB making cases, stating his belief's and having multiple suspects with reason's


http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 84&start=0

AntB with views on players. Fought against lynches he didn't believe in. Pressured about his vote and lynched day 1.

Compare this game to those. Feedback is welcomed.

[brokenscraps]

What I was saying was that in this game he didn't seem to play that differently to now. It seems like he was pushing a lot on nacho in this game while ignoring or not getting involved with much else (similar to how he pushed a lot on moose at the start of Mini 1091) then once Nacho died and flipped town he struggled to re-enter the game (combined with what seems to be some difficulties in playing fully).

I'll read his ISO in those games a little later and provide comments.

[farside22]

What I was saying was that in this game he didn't seem to play that differently to now. It seems like he was pushing a lot on nacho in this game while ignoring or not getting involved with much else (similar to how he pushed a lot on moose at the start of Mini 1091) then once Nacho died and flipped town he struggled to re-enter the game (combined with what seems to be some difficulties in playing fully).

I'll read his ISO in those games a little later and provide comments.

First of all he was pushing Moose most of day 1, which he kept pounding into people over and over again.
His game here he voted for you, switched to andrew, then to nacho which was more an OMGUS vote then an actual case.
I notice in that game he talked more too. Hell that game he actual ISO'ed and pushed the case hard. The only similar thing I see is the blindness (which would account for his attack on Bella) but again he pushed and made a case on why he thought X was scum and pointed out various reason's why.
Second bahabahbhahhahahaha on my god I lost it seeing the scum team buddy up with him and he agreeing with him. That is just a priceless moment.
He at least later saw one scum team that day and voted him.

[lord_hur]

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

You sounded very positive when you said this (even repeating it twice), and yet now it's "I think". This sounds inconsistent to me, and I don't like inconsistencies, especially in an attack/defense. It can mean you're scum flailing around or weak attacking.

You sounded certain that I was wrong with how I took your question. So it turns into an "I think".

- This sounds very, very off to me. Why would you take my reaction into account and let it alter your perception so radically, unless you knew that I am town? When you are uncertain about someone's alignment, only cold facts and reasoning should have this effect.
- Also, I suspect you are lying to me. "I think it's because..." clearly means that you never were positive about it.
- Finally, you said you "believed AntB to be scum". What's your position about AntB now?

[AntB]

1) I rode Nacho all day yesterday your point?
2) I made a case on you based on your play and lack of scum hunting which is still happening. I also pointed out how you in your post town games, push and question and push more on those you find scummy which is sorely missing in this game
So far nothing you said has changed my view. Part of my case was also Batt's and your lack of comments in regards to the case and pushing a Bella lynched instead. Thanks as always proving that you are not reading the game.
Lets add OMGUS to more bad scum hunting to the list.
Also I would like there to be a replacement for SoS in place before the day ends. What's your hurry?

1) Nacho flipped town. It goes pretty heavily against both of us.
2) All of your cases are based on Meta which I find very amusing. Your slam me for failing to hunt yet all your doing is meta-searching. While this may pass as a valid tactic for other, I don't like meta - I recently flipped town in another game where I was repeatedly slammed for my apparent inactivity. It shouldn't be hard for you to find it and review. - Morale: Meta sucks unless you take EVERYTHING into account.

So far nothing you said has changed my view.

Then how did I go from Town to Scum?

Part of my case was also Batt's and your lack of comments in regards to the case and pushing a Bella lynched instead.

I genuinly missed Batts tells until the JK claim when I was a little too late to join in, as for Bella. I don't remember actually pushing any case on her, but asking her a few hypotheticals and saying I would be happy with her lynch IF it came to it... but its only part of your case, not a large chunk, not a majority of it, just part of it.

Lets add OMGUS to more bad scum hunting to the list.

And you only just notice? You do all that meta-hunting, and despite me and nacho having a brief conversation about it earlier you bring it up as a fresh point.
VOTE: Farside22

Farside is resurrecting old points on me as part of her case despite seeing me as town for a lot of time

after

those points came up and failing to challenge me at the time. #591 is a blatent AtE if you ask me, a lot of people look on self-hammering with disgust, I see it as a tool. I know this provokes emotional reaction as its heavily frowned on - as does farside... but I challenge you to find where I've actually done it.
She's also WIFOMing, discussing potential claims and scenarios and basically fuelling the distraction from town-beneficial conversation.


Also,

@MOD: I just realise your last vote count is wrong, lord_hur unvoted at the bottom of pg25.

[farside22]

I'm completely confused. Outing the doc would only, ONLY happen if AntB claimed PR, and thus is scum. If AntB is town, he doesn't claim, and no one is outed. How can you derive from me asking this question, that I think, or even better, that I know that AntB is town?

I think it's because I believed AntB to be scum and your turn around vote comes from the prospective of AntB town only.

You sounded very positive when you said this (even repeating it twice), and yet now it's "I think". This sounds inconsistent to me, and I don't like inconsistencies, especially in an attack/defense. It can mean you're scum flailing around or weak attacking.

You sounded certain that I was wrong with how I took your question. So it turns into an "I think".

- This sounds very, very off to me. Why would you take my reaction into account and let it alter your perception so radically, unless you knew that I am town? When you are uncertain about someone's alignment, only cold facts and reasoning should have this effect.
- Also, I suspect you are lying to me. "I think it's because..." clearly means that you never were positive about it.
- Finally, you said you "believed AntB to be scum". What's your position about AntB now?

I still believe him to be scum.
As for you there is nothing scummy I found from your post or the person you replaced. I've had you listed as town and frankly nothing you stated so far has changed my views.
Finally I take into account that I like to fight with those I believe to be scum. Fighting town on town helps scum hide so I back down these days when it's a player who I believe is town.
Do I feel paranoid I could be wrong about you?
It crossed my mind that question and I came to the conclusion I'm will to take a slap in the face for being wrong when every instinct tells me your town.

[farside22]

Then how did I go from Town to Scum?

Nacho post had me thinking and re-analysising the possible scum teams. You seemed to keep missing those post.

And you only just notice? You do all that meta-hunting, and despite me and nacho having a brief conversation about it earlier you bring it up as a fresh point.
VOTE: Farside22

Well aren't you the hypocritical scum man. First it's wrong to meta you and aparently your lack of case means nothing here. Then it's wrong for me to miss a meta that you OMGUS people? Seriously this is your best case.
You need to work on being scum better.

[andrew94]

i believe farsides explanation of her having lord hur as a town read (alothough lord hur aint a town read to me) to be saying 'i think'/

atnb just pushing dirt on anyone he can

[farside22]

i believe farsides explanation of her having lord hur as a town read (alothough lord hur aint a town read to me) to be saying 'i think'/

atnb just pushing dirt on anyone he can

Do you believe lord hur is scum? What conclusion do you have of Bella or Archer?

[Archer]

She's (farside) also WIFOMing, discussing potential claims and scenarios and basically fuelling the distraction from town-beneficial conversation.

Farside was asked to explain it all, hardly brought it up herself. This is a big reach if you are really using it as part of your reasoning

Well aren't you the hypocritical scum man. First it's wrong to meta you and aparently your lack of case means nothing here. Then it's wrong for me to miss a meta that you OMGUS people? Seriously this is your best case.

I have to agree with AntB here, you cant cherry pick the parts of meta that suit you. Having said that I dont think (at least in the case of AntB) that you are only using meta. So basically it looks like another reach from AntB

[lord_hur]

As for you there is nothing scummy I found from your post or the person you replaced. I've had you listed as town and frankly nothing you stated so far has changed my views.
Finally I take into account that I like to fight with those I believe to be scum. Fighting town on town helps scum hide so I back down these days when it's a player who I believe is town.
Do I feel paranoid I could be wrong about you?
It crossed my mind that question and I came to the conclusion I'm will to take a slap in the face for being wrong when every instinct tells me your town.

Damn it. As much as I hate it when people rub me the right way, I can't deny that, objectively, I would view myself as townish were I in your place.
Also, you tend to occasionally phrase things imperfectly ("It crossed my mind that question"), which could explain my second and third point. Alright, points dismissed for now.

[lord_hur]

Farside is resurrecting old points on me as part of her case despite seeing me as town for a lot of time

after

those points came up and failing to challenge me at the time.

This is the only point of your argumentation that I find any value in, yet it is not precise enough. Can you link me these "old points", please?

[lord_hur]

[*]Where are you?
[*]UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps[/list]

---

• RE:lord_hur...again
  • I didn't say "making sure someone is lynched no matter what" was townish; I said it was moreso determined and persistant than scummy.
  • You say "And?" as if you read nothing of what I posted but expect me to eyeball you every step of the way. I didn't care what you posted about Battousai because it wasn't directed at me, unlike the reasons I posted at/to you regarding why I found your move suspicious. ITT paranoid bullshit is bullshit.

- Well, you draw a fine line. So, you think it's exactly neutral? Fine, I can't argue with that, there are tons of arguments made by someone else that I never believed in. There's quite a difference between not believing in an argument, and establishing probable scum intent, though.
- Irrelevant. Both votes were identical in structure, and not directed at you in any way. Yet, you reacted to one, but not to the other. And given how close it was from the end of day 1, I have trouble believing that you would miss the first. My "And" means I carefully read several times what you've written, but still didn't find a single incriminating reason I could be voted for.
- And thanks for the great scum slip : who typically doesn't care about what's not directed at them? Scum of course.

Vote : Looker

The reasons I advance are:
- Weak voting : in my opinion, none of your arguments are valid ;
- Backing down without justification after a counter-attack (synergy with weak voting) ;
- Contradicting : you say you're voting me for interfering in a lynch, yet you were not voting the person ;
- Quick-lynching intent without a deadline in sight ;
- Letting out a scum slip : you said you didn't care about what's not directed at you, which makes for terrible, terrible scumhunting ;
- Viewing JesseSheffield as town for reason I find far-reaching ;
- Completely ignoring Battousai D1.

Also, your meta looks much, much worse as town than as scum. With all your vote hopping, I only noticed you voting for scum once, and even then, you said yourself it was basically a shot in the dark between 3 persons (the 2 others were town), and you self-hammered the post after (nice letting your townbuddies down). Even random voting would have netted much better results on average.

What was holding me back is I have trouble picturing any scum being this careless. Still, you are my best lead till smashbro_of_the_SSS gets replaced (maybe even then).

For future reference :

Looker scum :
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=11001
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=11001

Looker town :
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=11001
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=11001

[farside22]

- Letting out a scum slip : you said you didn't care about what's not directed at you, which makes for terrible, terrible scumhunting ;

Looker said something close to this prior.

• farside
  • Not everything is relevant to me; some things I leave for only the involved parties until it becomes relevant to me.

I don't recall if it's normal for him to believe it. Will look at the meta a bit later.
I need to look at the vote pattern you speak of.
Right now my mind is not here yet.

@Archer: You completely missed the point. He's attacking that meta is weak reasoning but complains about missing the OMGUS. You can't have both ways. It's weak, weak reasoning.

[farside22]

@Looker:
Why did you get involved in the discussion between Hur and myself but ignored the conversation with Batt? What was the difference and why?

Either way, I wasted a vote yesterday. If it's going to be sotS against AntB; I'd rather lynch sotS.

Why SotS over AntB?

Why was Lord Hur's comment about me worthy of a vote?

Wrong. I disliked how conveniently and with so much ease everyone jumped on your wagon despite your absence being nothing more than school life and the fact that no one brought that up.

ummm I mentioned that he looked busy many times over, but you still voted for him. What changed your views, especially as it was during today's lynch that you were voting him and calling him scum over AntB?

Are you really voting for Broken for not being here? Did you search to see if he was posting around MS?