Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[EGL]

How is a vote fluff?

Also, how do you account then, if you're not scumbuddies or masons and if he's town, that he is so sure you're town to do such a thing?

[bvoigt]

LlamaFluff is obvtown.

I like how when I ask for some justification of the accusations against me, I'm then accused of being scummy for trying to defend myself. Great scumhunting there.

It's scummy because, if you're town, you really don't need to be concerned about a couple of "baseless" votes or accusations against you. However, if you're scum, your focus is staying alive, so you want to look good and defend yourself thoroughly.

[Amrun]

@EGL; A vote on the top wagon with zero explanation is fluff, in my opinion. No wiggling out of it... it's fluff, and scummy fluff at that.

Honestly, I don't know WHY Llama is so sure of me. It seems to be his playstyle. I guess he's a good reader.

[LlamaFluff]

No. It's more about the means you used.

So faking a govenor ability is scummy?

Will get to gonnao stuff later.

[ThAdmiral]

A few things from the last couple of pages...

People promoting no lynch are making me suspicious, especially ThAd, since he is the alternative. "Let me live one more night," he seems to be saying.

Wtf? When did I suggest a no-lynch? I would honestly rather people lynch me than that.

@Everybody who's claiming that McCarthy was a "warmonger": can you please link to where you're getting that from, because I don't necessarily associate spy paranoia with a desire for war.

Amrum described herself as a "warmonger" when she claimed mcarthur in post 704. It's one of the reasons the whole mis-claim thing is fishy in my eyes.

Ive been saying PI is town since around page five and still believe it.

Amrun wagon is almost certainly a GUARANTEED MISLYNCH.

How could you possibly be so sure of this without inside info? I've never

ever

been as sure about a town read as you guys are about PoisonIvy/Amrum who have, combined, scumtelled more than probably the rest of the playing list combined.

ThAd's sudden arguments with Llama make me feel SO GOOD about my vote. Talk about super survival instincts. "Hey wait everyone, it was just a gambit, come back to Amrun wagon!!!!"

I love how literally everything I do is just more proof that I am scum, and everything amrum does is more proof that she is town.
I just want you to know that you are failing at mafia.

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

??? Where have you been?

Well to be fair even though a lot of people had mentioned you up until this point in the game you really hadn't attracted many votes.

Also, maybe this is a bad idea, but should Amrun and Furcolow paraphrase their flavor as well?

Absolutely. I notice Furc has, so it's your turn Amrum...

@llama case on gonnano in 907: there's

something

there, but your evidence doesn't sound very damning to me. I could see cautious/tentative town acting in a fairly similar way.

I would definitely be up for an egl lynch though. Completely unhelpful through the day and then there's the flip from this:

Why is ThAd still alive?

to this:

I'm not too interested in tales of ThAd scum these days.

With no explanation.

[Lowell]

I don't know where the EGL case came from, but I like it. The "I'm not buddying Llama, look: VOTE LLAMA" posts crack me up, and he seems to only show up to defend himself and ask leading questions to others about their ideas. Save room for me on this wagon.

bvoigt's summary of the case on gonna is exactly right. gonna has that vibe of "OMG me?????" about him, and frankly I'm tired of him always acting like the victim of baseless attacks.

[RedCoyote]

FoS: RC

for such an obvious rolefish on the last page, to the point where I'm not even sure if I should FoS because that's just plain stupid to do as scum, but there you go.

When a player mentions that he has a power, all bets are off. If Llama had implied that he had another power, then that would be rolefishing to press him, but not when he outright admits he has a Vig shot.

[Furcolow]

Furc -

1. Why give a miller a power, especially one that looks as anti-town as what Amrun has claimed? I would say Amrun is town before I would say she's a miller.
2. Your character was the leader of a communist nation, according to wikipedia.
3. Why do you assume a 3-man scumteam, especially in a game this size?

Actually, I'm not at all certain that Amrun is scum - I think it's more likely she's some sort of third party role. Notice all the third party speculation in her posts, and it would make much more sense for McCarthy to win when all the communists are dead. Either way, I am pretty convinced she's not town.

IP - I unvoted Amrun because I was under the belief she'd been governored, and I didn't want a no lynch. When Llama revealed his gambit, I put my vote back on, because Amrun was and still is the player I believe to be least likely to be town. Why does that make me scummy?

I'm not limiting myself to a 3 man scumteam. I'm just adapting reads as I go through the game. I have no idea how many scum there are.
1. McCarthy just being McCarthy would work as a miller
2. I saw that. Azerbaijan, or something. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't want to appear too informed.
3. see above

I'm not certain Amrun is scum, either. Did you see EGL's spiel just a minute ago? Scummy, scummy, scummy!
Obvious distancing from LF when LF isn't even close to a lynch, after an unvote of Amrun from 2 posts before... I mean, I shift FoS and wagons, but this guy is providing no reasoning. Play like that can't go unpunished, and I'm glad I already laid out a case on him and was buddying him. His defense, a one liner, is inadequate vs. the case I presented on him. If people aren't willing to lynch EGL, I have no hope for us.

I messed up the tags.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AmRun

This is the 3rd time you've just blindly hopped on one of the largest wagons. PI, thead, amrun... all with 0 reasoning.

And Furc, I think you've confused me with someone else. I wasn't buddying up to LlamaFluff.

Actually, you really were. Want me to quote it again? How about you actually quote the case I had on you and respond to it. That'd be nice.

Actually, I'd like to see Llama lynched today due to his recent play, if it's not too late to do so.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LlamaFluff

for what reason?
yet again, we're seeing 0 reasoning out of you, when I can provide an obvious reason: you're trying to distance from who I feel your partner could be. obvious distancing is obvious, especially since just a page ago I had highlighted why you all could be teammates. This is not the way to play, if you're town, which I believe you aren't.

So EGL shows up and votes on the biggest wagon without saying anything. Then he notices someone is voting for him, sees an accusation of buddying, and votes for his supposed buddy.

That's town behavior. Right.

Right, he's soooooooo town
let's lynch this guy

I like how when I ask for some justification of the accusations against me, I'm then accused of being scummy for trying to defend myself. Great scumhunting there.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but Furcolow actually made sense when he suggested that McCarthy could potentially be a miller. It's the only way that I can see for Amrun's flavor to be reconciled with his townie reaction to being lynched.


On a side note, paper ignites at about 450 degrees Celsius, not 451 degrees Fahrenheit.

I completely agree. Why is that book called Fahrenheit 451, though?

[Furcolow]

And that I think AmRun might be scum. I'm not too interested in tales of ThAd scum these days. You seem to be too insistent that we don't lynch AmRun. It suggests you're somehow paired together. Either as neighbors or scum. And I picked the one I thought most likely.

LOL EGL agrees with my other two reads, then "goes back into his cave"

SO, EGL is suggesting Amrun/LF
I'm suggesting EGL/Amrun/LF
MAAAAJOR distancing imo.

[Furcolow]

Actually, I'm not so sure about Amrun. If LF flips scum, though, you can book that. I am way more sure on EGL, and after him, I will probably adapt my reads.

Seriously, though, I haven't really felt this good about a situation. We need to lynch between EGL/LF based on this reaction.

[Amrun]

@ThAd: pushing for a test on governor when you did had a good chance of leading to a mislynch.

I already did paraphrase my flavor, but you disagree. McCarthy didn't warmonger in the sense that he pushed us to go to war with the Soviet Union. He warmongered in the sense that he created so much upheaval and paranooia in his own country. (Interestingly, I am doing the same by having claimed McCarthy. Maybe this game is deeper cover than we thought.)

I don't know why everyone is flat out not believing he is town. While I readily admit it is a bit strange, still, McCarthy was seeking spies. He was doing in real life what we are pretending to do now, just badly. (More irony? Ha.)

P-edit: I'm also willing to lynch EGL.

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count XXI

Amrun - 8 -

XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, Stephoscope, mothrax, Scott Brosius, Lowell, Sathoris, smargaret

ThAdmiral - 6 -

Nachomamma8, LynchMePls, GhostWriter, Amrun, Feysal, bvoigt

mothrax - 2 -

gonnano, RedCoyote

gonnano - 3-

Artem, LlamaFluff, DavidParker

EGL - 1 -

Furcolow

LlamaFluff - 2 -

ThAdmiral, EGL

smargaret - 1 -

InflatablePie

Not Voting - 1 -

Fuzzyman

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

GhostWriter has been prodded

Fuzzyman is being replaced: Feel free to pimp this game to your friends. No one seems to be biting.

Also a mod note to let you all know that Andrius is the new back up mod for this game. So if I get struck by lightening, shoot him a PM.

[Amrun]

Oops, in my last post, I meant no lynch in my first paragraph, not mislynch.

[LimMePls]

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

Why a gonnano lynch anyway. I know a lot of people have mentioned him but what has he done that's scummy?

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

[LimMePls]

Sorry, I messed up the quotes.

If they're scum, how would they fakeclaim from memory?

That's the thing, they don't. But by changing some things later they make you believe they were. Hence, I distrust it.

Isn't there some saying about "The simplest scenario is also the most likely"? This doesn't seem very plausible to me.

Occam's Razor. It's your friend.

Tags fixed ~ Mod

[LimMePls]

^^Sigh...

@MOD

Can you fix that? Closing tag should be [/url]

[LimMePls]

So EGL shows up and votes on the biggest wagon without saying anything. Then he notices someone is voting for him, sees an accusation of buddying, and votes for his supposed buddy.

That's town behavior. Right.

WIN

[LimMePls]

@Llama: What's your take on bvoigt?

@ThAd: Same question.

@RC: What do you make of this EGL buisness?

[Feysal]

So basically you are lying scum, right? If anyone needs a bullet tonight it's you.

For everyone who didn't notice:

Amrum has not been governered, and llama is to be killed asap. Put votes back on amrum.

Okay, now I'm really disappointed. Are you aware that Furry is an alt of LlamaFluff? Aka the player who, in The Return to Liten, faked a double vote on me to prompt a claim from me? You were there, you saw it happen.

If I had to guess, LlamaFluff probably spotted that it was not a real hammer and added that governor bit to stop anyone from hammering for real. Or, he was looking for reactions to the claim. Either way, having been on the receiving end of one of his gambits, I say this is not something to lynch him over.

@Feysal, question from 34:
Fahrenheit 451 is the temperature at which Soviet literature would have been burning at in America, or vice versa. It is the heat at which books burn, as far as I know, and a good book which I'm sure you know.

I do know, I've read it. What I don't know is why it would be relevant to this game. The Cold War was not the theme of the book. It was about a dystopian future, where the United States have degenerated into a nation of apathetic idiots due to a ban of books and reading.

All

books, not just Soviet ones, from the Bible to Mein Kampf. The fire department incinerated them all whereever they could find them.

By the way, the autoignition point of paper varies depending on source, in Wikipedia it is 218-450°C, or 424-842°F.

I like this post from ThAd. I mean, I REALLY like this post. I was starting to be less sure of him, but this pressure on LlamaFluff is good, considering he was the only person I saw EGL buddying up with that could be his scum partner. Amrun/EGL/LlamaFluff wouldn't surprise me.

That is funny, because I don't. This reaction is completely different to what I've seen from ThAd before.

I'm currently in the process of catching up with all of my games, and I'll ISO read gonnano after I finish. Other games need my attention more urgently right now.

[Scott Brosius]

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

Why a gonnano lynch anyway. I know a lot of people have mentioned him but what has he done that's scummy?

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Very good catch.

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

[DavidParker]

As much as I have somewhat-adamantly defended ThAd and never believed him strongly to be a good lynch today information-wise, he is definitely playing in a cautious way that is really looking to be scummish at this point and it upsets me, because I have defended him and pushed for a non-ThAd lynch for so long... I'd still prefer gonnano at this point but ThAd has managed to creep up.

[gonnano]

go back and read my earlier post?

You mean the one where you criticize me for voting JMJ (for essentially the same reason you were voting him), then criticize me for voting Amrun when he does something scummy and then unvoting when he does something townie, then say that a general statement about how I would expect someone with the role of McCarthy to handle that role is somehow a reflection of the amount of concern I have for how others see me?
I saw it. It wasn't a real case.

bvoigt's summary of the case on gonna is exactly right. gonna has that vibe of "OMG me?????" about him, and frankly I'm tired of him always acting like the victim of baseless attacks.

Frankly, I'm tired of being subjected to baseless attacks. I don't have any objections to being suspected, but it's a little frustrating when the accusations consist more of people saying "Gonnano needs to die" than actual content.

It's scummy because, if you're town, you really don't need to be concerned about a couple of "baseless" votes or accusations against you. However, if you're scum, your focus is staying alive, so you want to look good and defend yourself thoroughly.

There's been a lot of very vocal support for these accusations, though. Is it really better to ignore it and hope that someone else will come save me before it gets out of hand? I agree that scum need to stay alive, but in most situations it's in a townie's best interest to stay alive, too.

My thinking is that if someone lets an accusation go uncontested, it's equivalent to admitting that it is true and hoping that no one will notice. Which seems like the wrong thing to do if the accusation is a poor one.

[bvoigt]

It's scummy because, if you're town, you really don't need to be concerned about a couple of "baseless" votes or accusations against you. However, if you're scum, your focus is staying alive, so you want to look good and defend yourself thoroughly.

There's been a lot of very vocal support for these accusations, though. Is it really better to ignore it and hope that someone else will come save me before it gets out of hand? I agree that scum need to stay alive, but in most situations it's in a townie's best interest to stay alive, too.

My thinking is that if someone lets an accusation go uncontested, it's equivalent to admitting that it is true and hoping that no one will notice. Which seems like the wrong thing to do if the accusation is a poor one.

[/quote]

Is this normally something you do as town...as in, devote entire posts just to asking for a summary of the points against you?

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: What's your take on bvoigt?

Townish. He has moved around a lot in my reads, and is reading town right now but have quite a few reservations about him compared to my solid town reads.

unvote
Vote Thad

Splitting the wagons between scummy and scummish while letting town read get the entire counter-wagon isnt a good move really. I should be able to get all caught up friday. I had a midterm yesterday, another in 30 mintues and two more tomorrow. So friday expect something tying everything together.

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: pushing for a test on governor when you did had a good chance of leading to a mislynch.

In my experience with governer roles if a player reaches lynch threshold nothing happens and the day continues. How many governer roles have you experienced in your playing history.

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

Why a gonnano lynch anyway. I know a lot of people have mentioned him but what has he done that's scummy?

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Um, DOES COMPUTE! Read them again, they actually say more or less the same thing but the second one is framed as a question.

@Llama: What's your take on bvoigt?

@ThAd: Same question.

Nothings really jumped out at me. I don't really have a read on him.

So basically you are lying scum, right? If anyone needs a bullet tonight it's you.

For everyone who didn't notice:

Amrum has not been governered, and llama is to be killed asap. Put votes back on amrum.

Okay, now I'm really disappointed. Are you aware that Furry is an alt of LlamaFluff? Aka the player who, in The Return to Liten, faked a double vote on me to prompt a claim from me? You were there, you saw it happen.

If I had to guess, LlamaFluff probably spotted that it was not a real hammer and added that governor bit to stop anyone from hammering for real. Or, he was looking for reactions to the claim. Either way, having been on the receiving end of one of his gambits, I say this is not something to lynch him over.

Return to Liten is a good game to bring up actually because Furry/llama's play was completely different in that game. In that game he was constantly providing good material and looked fairly obv-town from the get go. This game he has done hardly anything before a couple of days ago and since then all he's done is basically ask for a flip and then gone a fair bit out of his way to prevent one.

I like this post from ThAd. I mean, I REALLY like this post. I was starting to be less sure of him, but this pressure on LlamaFluff is good, considering he was the only person I saw EGL buddying up with that could be his scum partner. Amrun/EGL/LlamaFluff wouldn't surprise me.

That is funny, because I don't. This reaction is completely different to what I've seen from ThAd before.

...and? What is it that you don't like about it?

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

Why a gonnano lynch anyway. I know a lot of people have mentioned him but what has he done that's scummy?

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Very good catch.

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

*Facepalm*
Look above.

As much as I have somewhat-adamantly defended ThAd and never believed him strongly to be a good lynch today information-wise, he is definitely playing in a cautious way that is really looking to be scummish at this point and it upsets me, because I have defended him and pushed for a non-ThAd lynch for so long... I'd still prefer gonnano at this point but ThAd has managed to creep up.

As if? What have I done that is cautious?