Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

[bgg1996]

Nevermind, they just changed their vote

[bgg1996]

Nevermind on #2 that is.

[DeathRowKitty]

ITT = In this thread

It's generally used in titles of general discussion topics, but I rather like the abbreviation.

[bgg1996]

Ok, thanks a lot.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, tbh, the read I'm getting off of GreyICE's recent posts is hilariously pissed off town. The big thing missing from this game when I initially gave the scum meta read on him was emotion. In both of his town games I'd seen, he'd gotten really worked up about things early and often, whereas he'd been much more mild this game.

[bgg1996]

Yeah, I'm not gonna vote for that person yet.

[Xine]

ITT we learn that GreyICE thinks I have never heard of bussing. did you forget that I have been calling him scum, with you, since the beginning of the game?

[Ant_to_the_max]

weee lots of stuff to look at/comment on.
But I will pass out before I get to actually posting it. But on the bright side, my school week is done now!

[Llamarble]

I think Xine and Neruz are town. Ant looks a bit scummy, particularly if bgg is scum but even if he isn't.
Bgg is continuing his wifom bombardment. What townie bothers with "think I'm town (rightfully)" or "flip town (which I will)" or whatever it was?
I still have to read more players though.

[Nathanael]

prod-dodge. no time to make a full post and won't be online whole day. will comment asap

[GreyICE]

ITT we learn that GreyICE thinks I have never heard of bussing. did you forget that I have been calling him scum, with you, since the beginning of the game?

No, actually I didn't.

Somehow you have the same bullshit reads that you did on page one of this thread.

You've gone NOWHERE since then? This entire thread, and those reads haven't changed in the least? Argh.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Apologies to everyone, but I'm going to be very short on internet time for a little bit. I haven't actually had a chance to even look at the updates since my own last post, so hopefully the problem will be solved soon and I'll be back online.

[Ant_to_the_max]

there's a famous go proverb: if you plan playing 1,2,3 (where 2 is the opponent's move), just skip the 1/2 exchange and play 3 directly.
why not lynch S_C directly instead of going through bgg first if you seem so certain bgg will flip town anyway?

There is always the uncertainty of how things will turn out though...which leads into

@Ant: What Nat said. Chain-lynching is, as a rule, not a good idea on day 1, and I would LOVE to see 1) what your justification is for deciding on both me and Hiraki, and 2) Your statement shows you're at LEAST okay with bgg going down. Which means you must agree. But the second half shows that you think we're probably scum if we're wrong. Which is a total contradiction, the way I see it. Combine lurking with contradictions and stuff doesn't end up looking so good for you

1)

I don't know if they would push a lynch on a claimed VT, I was just of the opinion that if we lynch someone else and he turns up dead in the morning, his death hasn't really taught us anything, and ideally we should be able to learn SOMETHING from NKs.

Maybe it is just me, but does the town really (usually) learn anything from nightkills? Usually it is just "oh...there goes our <insert power role>" or "oh...there goes the most pro town person"

The thing I didn't like about Surprise Carcinogen is how they pushed the bgg lynch. To me it seemed like it was "this is our only option" thing.

As for Hiraki, I didn't like "Screw it, I'm done with him" post, but thinking about things some more, his is not that scummy. Going through his ISO, I am going to lean towards him being town.

2) For the amount of times I have been wrong before, I like to have a backup plan. Always have, and probably always will. Don't know why, but I usually always end up in a similar situation like this, and go against my gut and it ends badly, so this time I'm just going to run with what my gut says.

[Redacted]'s post here is really good though. Enough contradictions there for me to feel better seeing him go
VOTE: Neruz

[bgg1996]

Is greedling still playing?

[Neruz]

Maybe it is just me, but does the town really (usually) learn anything from nightkills? Usually it is just "oh...there goes our <insert power role>" or "oh...there goes the most pro town person"

A lot can be learned from night kills, but it can also be very touch and go sometimes too. Usually 'smart' scum go for safe or obvious kills, but sometimes that can actually put them at a disadvantage, which can potentially lead to getting a lot of information out of very little.

A nightkill also eliminates a potential suspect so long as there are no confirmed townies on the table (and at this stage there arent).

[Redacted]'s post here is really good though. Enough contradictions there for me to feel better seeing him go

Um, for a start i've already refuted that post, for an end there are no contradictions there. Redacted is accusing me of distancing myself, not contradicting myself.

FoS: Ant_to_the_max

for a nonsense vote.

[Neruz]

Is greedling still playing?

Hm, good catch, i missed him entirely.

@Mod: Can we get a prod on Greedling?

He hasn't posted for what looks like 5 days.

[Xine]

ITT we learn that GreyICE thinks I have never heard of bussing. did you forget that I have been calling him scum, with you, since the beginning of the game?

No, actually I didn't.

Somehow you have the same bullshit reads that you did on page one of this thread.

You've gone NOWHERE since then? This entire thread, and those reads haven't changed in the least? Argh.

This made me smile.
Actually, I have made progress, Neruz, and Llam seem pretty much town, and DRK has moved closer to a town read then my initial impression. I've got my eye on Nath and SC, but I'm waiting to see more before I act on that. You and bbg have done nothing to erase my initial scum reads. am I tunneling? even if I am, that does not mean I am not correct.

[bgg1996]

So Neruz, why did you vote me again?
First you misinterpreted one of my posts, saying "I dislike contradictions" as your main reasoning, referring to my post. Afterwards you claimed that it was another post I made before you voted that made you think I was scum.

[bgg1996]

That is to say, could you "tell me why you voted me" again?

[Neruz]

Two primary reasons: First you contradicted yourself by claiming that you would have proof of your innocence tomorrow, which you cannot provide due to your townie claim. Second for the aforementioned threats.
The rest of your play could also arguably be pointed to, but could swing either was as newb scum or town; it's the two main points that lead me to believe the scum side.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?


Also Neruz, You say that I am contradicting myself by saying that I should

come up with

information that I do not yet have.
Based on how you wrote your response on post 160, in your head it probably went more like:
I have proof that I am not scum, I'll show it to you tomorrow. (Remember guys, I'm a claimed Vanilla Townie.)
With it said that way, why would you tell everybody to "see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell." You went on to vote Nathanael.
With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?



My vote is between:


Neruz, for among other things, contradictions and hypocracies.

Surprise_Carcinogen, for being so adamant about me being lynched and a few logical fallacies.

Nathanael, because he acts like he knows without a doubt that I'm town. The tactic I liked to use when playing scum was to pretend that I was a townie. It would explain why he was protecting me, because if it is like that, when he sees my posts, his first impression is that I'm what I say I am, and he automatically thinks up an explanation in his mind for when I did something "scummy", to see the actual reason I did it. Real townies will doubt the information immediately. They will never come up with an explanation in their heads of why this townie would've done this, because their minds automatically write me off as scum.

[bgg1996]

*hypocrisies

[Nathanael]

what do you mean by "a defense this transparent"? what does "transparent" mean for you?
why do you think that newbscum would tell "I can prove that I am town" when it's clear they can't as they aren't town?

@S_C: I'd still like an answer to those.

You need to die now. Nathanael for tomorrow. That doesn't depend on the flip btw.

If you want to lynch me independent of the bgg flip, why aren't you voting me right now? (1,2,3 principle again.)

Do you seriously not think that voting someone for voting No Lynch in RVS is at least better than a randomvoting (you would LOVE this post if that's really what you are saying)? I'll explain again. it is quite simple. assume EVERYBODY did the same thing: what would we get? a no lynch and no information.

That's perfectly reasonable....except you unvoted and re-random voted afterwards. Was voting someone for no lynch suddenly not better than a random vote?

I was obsessed by your BF-sig. It was a mistake and I already explained that.

The major reason for me to believe Xine to be scum is post 121: I really see this as blatant opportunism on the easiest wagon (a newbtown.) What I didn't like especially about this post is the delay between bgg's vote on Xine and Xine's response. To me this really indicates scum wanting to first check the general atmosphere before trying to push the wagon.

You seem quite sure that bgg is town. I agree that he probably is, but basing a case off of him being easy-to-wagon newbtown? Not seeing it.

Sometimes it is much easier to go looking for town-reads than for scum-reads. And then you have to find scum based on you town-reads. Well, this is one of those cases.

I think Xine and Neruz are town. Ant looks a bit scummy, particularly if bgg is scum but even if he isn't.
Bgg is continuing his wifom bombardment. What townie bothers with "think I'm town (rightfully)" or "flip town (which I will)" or whatever it was?
I still have to read more players though.

shouldn't you be voting Ant if you think he is scummy regardless of bgg bein scum or not? especially since you have no vote anywhere.

PS: UNVOTE: VOTE: Neruz.
Neruz:
a) why do you think I think you are scum? Yes, this is a serious question I'd like you to answer.
b) I'd still like you to provide with the links to those questions I didn't answer you claim in post 160.
c) define "free lynch".
d) was there ever a moment you thought it could be a reasonable possibility that bgg had in fact the claimed "proof of innocence"?

[Hiraki]

If you want to lynch me independent of the bgg flip, why aren't you voting me right now? (1,2,3 principle again.)

Because people are stupid and won't join me on your lynch. Bgg is as bad, and therefore needs to die. I'm getting more and more newb tells from him, but I'm doubting them.

Per se, this statement.

The tactic I liked to use when playing scum was to pretend that I was a townie.

Herp derp, scum acts like scum obv. And this too.

They will never come up with an explanation in their heads of why this townie would've done this, because their minds automatically write me off as scum.

So are you telling me that townies are supposed to think you're scum based off of your play?

Eye spy a slip.

I need a good re-read of this game though. Apparently Neruz is scummy, but I never saw anything of that nature from skimming his posts.

[Exe]

Mmm...bacon...

Vote Count #8

Day 1

bgg1996

(4): Xine, Surprise_Carcinogen, Neruz, Hiraki,

Neruz

(3): [Redacted], Ant_to_the_max, Nathanael,

Xine

(2): Greedling, GreyICE,

Nathanael

(1): DeathRowKitty,

DeathRowKitty

(1): My Milked Eek,

Surprise_Carcinogen

(0):

Llamarble

(0):

GreyICE

(0):

[Redacted]

(0):

My Milked Eek

(0):

Greedling

(0):

Ant_to_the_max

(0):

Hiraki

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

: Llamarble, bgg1996,

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is at 10:00 AM EST on 2/24/11.