Newbie 1060: It's a Murder Mystery (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

Oto - game ended.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=16125

PEDIT: Glad you're not leaving, I do like you. I just can't talk myself out of lynching you today just because I personally like you. It's so much easier to lynch people you hate

I'm always kinda glad when someone who truly annoys me pulls scum. It's so... fitting.

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler:

Mod: Votecount, please.

Done. (Equinox)

I assume you mean these two?

Wow ...this has slowed down tremendously.

It got quite. :*(

First off: snowjorden was hammered for that because he had a ton of stuff to respond to. I already responded to everything (if I missed something please direct me to it). Second, activity=good.

Spoiler:

He speaks the truth here.

Ah, ICE is voting me again. For wagon hopping? First off, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who has ever voted oto. Second, I gave my own reasons for voting primate, therefor I wasn't just following the (1 vote) wagon.

Spoiler:

Actually, LLD voted for Oto D1, if you could kindly recall.

Yes, you asked what marathon games were.

Spoiler:

Oh, well, thank you. Slipped my mind.

Post 3 (or 4 in my ISO) is not, post 4 (5) is only if the vote is not because of RVS.

I thought it was clear that I did that to bandwagon out of RVS

Spoiler:

It appears that what you intended and what you got were two entirely different things. I understood you were jumping off an RVS bandwagon, but I wasn't sure it was powered mainly by RVS.

What? The whole breadcrumbing thing? Doesn't seem to be much of a link beyond the fact that you apologized for what you said here in your BC post.

It was for the purpose of breadcrumbing, and apologizing for my post not having everything I wanted.

Spoiler:

The post before your BC post, to me at least, is fluff. The actual BC post is not. Besides, I'm only talking about the post before the BC here.

BTW, not at all game related, but pretty awesome that Voided has figured out that ISOs don't necessarily tell you that much and that they're better as tools than as be all and end alls. A lot of people get stuck on them for game after game, especially players who like things to line up.

Spoiler:

...

I don't think I figured out anything, though...

Spoiler:

By the way, you didn't answer my question as to whether or not being the hammer vote two times consecutively is a good or bad thing.

I am currently throwing away the game. Nothing more, nothing less. Lynch me if you want but I won't do aything else than actively lurking until Mb53 say that HoN is a better game than LoL. This is also true for Sarg.

And don't be a chicken GreyICE, don't unvote like this ...

Spoiler:

This post (and anything around it) is so stupid it deserves breaking off of using Edgeworth GIFs JUST for this one. God DAMN.

Can we PLEASE stop this stupid as hell off-topic fluff? PLEASE?!

I think I've done this post the editing justice it needs. Let me know if I didn't do it correctly. (Equinox)

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP:

Spoiler:

Mod: Votecount, please.

*stupid stuff*

Spoiler:

This post (and anything around it) is so stupid it deserves breaking off of using Edgeworth GIFs JUST for this one. God DAMN.

Can we PLEASE stop this stupid as hell off-topic fluff? PLEASE?!

[Primate]

I wasn't arguing for his lynch though. I was arguing against his lynch. I changed my mind on that yesterday shortly after his claim.

I'm going to change it back after having a day to think about it. I did think his claim was plausible, but it's also completely believable that under pressure like this he would make a claim like that.

I also wouldn't be happy him getting to endgame based on what I think is solely that claim and I suppose that's the test as to whether you actually believe something.

Going to keep thinking about it but I'm very likely going to hammer before I go to sleep which'll be about an hour.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP:

Spoiler:

And, uh, please fix my quote tags, too. The spoiler tags should help with that.

[GreyICE]

I wasn't arguing for his lynch though. I was arguing against his lynch. I changed my mind on that yesterday shortly after his claim.

I'm going to change it back after having a day to think about it. I did think his claim was plausible, but it's also completely believable that under pressure like this he would make a claim like that.

I also wouldn't be happy him getting to endgame based on what I think is solely that claim and I suppose that's the test as to whether you actually believe something.

Going to keep thinking about it but I'm very likely going to hammer before I go to sleep which'll be about an hour.

Yay, if he flips town, a blind monkey would lynch you for this post so I don't even have to worry about being the victim of the night kill.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.04

mb53 (3) - Sarg338, Otolia, GreyICE
Otolia (1) - mb53
Sarg338 (1) - Primate

Not Voting (2) - Mhi200, Voidedmafia

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, March 18, 2011, at 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

Mod Notes

Mhi200 has limited access March 3-8

[mb53]

By the way, you didn't answer my question as to whether or not being the hammer vote two times consecutively is a good or bad thing.

It depends really. The game ICE and I were in, someone in town quick(ish) hammered both of the scum. But if you quick hammer two town, it can very much be a bad thing.

P-Edit: Holy crap, lots of new posts right away.

[Voidedmafia]

Your mod fails at stalking the thread... ;_;

Spoiler:

How dare...!

I wasn't arguing for his lynch though. I was arguing against his lynch. I changed my mind on that yesterday shortly after his claim.

I'm going to change it back after having a day to think about it. I did think his claim was plausible, but it's also completely believable that under pressure like this he would make a claim like that.

I also wouldn't be happy him getting to endgame based on what I think is solely that claim and I suppose that's the test as to whether you actually believe something.

Going to keep thinking about it but I'm very likely going to hammer before I go to sleep which'll be about an hour.

Yay, if he flips town, a blind monkey would lynch you for this post so I don't even have to worry about being the victim of the night kill.

Spoiler:

I can agree with this. I still need to ISO Primate, and he was going to be my next point of suspicion if mb53 flips town, based on what he's done D2. He sounds similar to SnowJOrden before I heckled the latter, too.

Oto sounds more like a frustrated town, if not frustrated null. But I HATE this stupid tangent about LoL and DotA and HoN.

In any case, I'm not going to hammer mb now. As much as we're all suspicious of his doc claim and BC, the fact that he claimed the role stays my hand more than anything, like with Primate. You may consider it a scummy move for me, as well, but I'm just hesitant at lynching PRs.

[Primate]

I wasn't arguing for his lynch though. I was arguing against his lynch. I changed my mind on that yesterday shortly after his claim.

I'm going to change it back after having a day to think about it. I did think his claim was plausible, but it's also completely believable that under pressure like this he would make a claim like that.

I also wouldn't be happy him getting to endgame based on what I think is solely that claim and I suppose that's the test as to whether you actually believe something.

Going to keep thinking about it but I'm very likely going to hammer before I go to sleep which'll be about an hour.

Yay, if he flips town, a blind monkey would lynch you for this post so I don't even have to worry about being the victim of the night kill.

Changing your mind is pro-town because it shows dislike of posturing, which scum really like because it sticks people into categories that allow them to play the long game better in their own mind.

It's actually pretty reliable if their reasons are even remotely plausible.

You can't trust it in this context of course because I'm advocating it, but it's quite a good one and worth remembering once the game is over.

[Primate]

I mean more along the lines of changing your opinion on whether someone is town and scum and how scummy/townie you think they are. Changing your mind about simple things and things that aren't just concessions in service to your existing opinions don't really count.

[Primate]

*are just

[GreyICE]

Nah, it's not that. It's very pro-town to change your mind in response to input.

It was the "I'm

going

to change it back."

Only scum PLAN to change their reads before they change em. I dunno if it's a legit slip or just the worst phrasing I've seen in ages, but it's a death knell for tomorrow.

That being said, MB53 hasn't even coughed out the ol' chesnut "well I think you'll still win if you lynch me" which I'd actually tend to believe, he just feels... defeated.

[Primate]

Going there isn't meant in the sense of I will do it in the future, it's meant in the moving sense. Like "I am going to have a smoke" doesn't mean the guy's planning to have a smoke, it means they are doing it now.

I had already changed my mind before I made that post.

[Otolia]

Oto sounds more like a frustrated town, if not frustrated null. But I HATE this stupid tangent about LoL and DotA and HoN.

I was truly pissed off by what Mb53 said. However I find it appropriate to turn the things arund and use it against him, which worked great since he is getting emo. Not that I gained anything from that apart for small hints. And don't be mad over fluff, they are part of the game. IMO you shouldn't AT ALL consider that I'm frustrated, had what I want fron this situation and you obviously don't since you are still mumbling over it yet again (2nd or 3rd post commenting it)

If you feel the game is too slow and I'm dragging the whole town down then call me out for that or you could just vote and hammer Mb53 or question him ... whatever floats your boat !

[GreyICE]

I'll explain it for tomorrow, since I have no idea if I die or not.

Basically, assume for a second Primate is scum. The motives today are, in no particular order:

1) Survive (no other motive can take precedence, he loses if lynched)
2) Lynch someone who isn't mb53 (since mb53, if town, is an obvious mislynch)
3) Generate scumreads from town on people who aren't him
4) Work up town credit.

Four is the toughest - it's much easier to make someone scummier than you than make yourself town when you're this deep in the pit. So 1 through 3. One was that apology to the town. Two was that vote for sarg and the 'I just have a bad feeling about him.' Three was hopefully a total dud - I'm not seeing the sort of mess that normally precludes a total LyLo failure. Four, he's done pretty good with up till that last post.

The problem is his "I'm going to change that back..." in that post, because it betrays exactly the level of planning that I knew Primate-scum would have to be making. Winning here would be mind-numbingly difficult for him, every post is living on egg shells. Every post has to be near-perfect. IC scum is always tough - people tend to lynch the IC for bad reasons if they're still alive on day 3, just because "why isn't the game over and shit! And you're better, you must be unreadable because they're better" (and because ICs tend to give off scum tells like mad just because they are planning their posts the way scum do) So he's under pressure, I want to see the slip.

The problem (and the reason he's #2, way behind mb53)

- LLD is much more of a mb53 shot than Primate. She was very involved in the back and forth at the end of the day, I was sick as a dog for most of that week and not really caring since I figured my vote was on scum. LLD is very much more likely to generate the chaos Primate would need to win this game (love you LLD-chan, but it's true!). She's a bad Primate shot.
- MB53 has just done so many different things badly here
- He just feels defeated in his last posts. It's not a town defeat if we mislynch today.

If this is still going on on day 4... uh... I've screwed up really badly, first. Second, at that point, you guys are going to have to trust your own reads and your heads because I've screwed up really badly. If there's a cop he needs to claim tomorrow and tell the town if Primate is scum/town. Doesn't mean that the cop is trustworthy, but it'll tell you if Primate is scum/town. And now there will be no cop claims in LyLo (then again, we're lynching the doctor today if the game is going on on day 4, so... heh).

[GreyICE]

I mean if you forced me to choose at gunpoint for #3, it would be either Otolia or mhi200, probably mhi, but that is not a note for anyone to do more than keep your eyes open.

Sarg and Voided still read obvtown to me.

[GreyICE]

*cough*

As for LyLo, quick survival guide for the two town who are left:

If EITHER of you throws down your vote quickly, and it hits town, the town loses. Take your time, read people, THINK ABOUT THE MOTIVES behind their actions.

If you're alive at LyLo it's because there's a reason you're alive at LyLo. Is it because the scum thinks you'll toss the vote on the other townie? Are you the mislynch? Do they think they can persuade you? You're there for a reason, oh yes you are. There's three shots to make sure that you were the two people alive - not anyone else. Especially after tonight, both shots went into someone they wanted dead.

It's very possible and likely to win at LyLo. Scum are still scummy. Town are still town. Just don't tunnel - everything is open to question.

[GreyICE]

And that's that, I've said everything I want to before this hammer.

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler:

I am annoyed that you seemingly seriously considered dropping out because someone thought that a game you liked wasn't as good as a game he liked.

No matter what your intentions, this tangent was, and will be, stupid.

Spoiler:

Also, I never said that.

Spoiler:

And it's "around"

GreyICE:

Spoiler:

Not pinning anything on you or anything, but why was that split up into three posts?

[GreyICE]

Because that's how I think, and how I post. I'm a pain in the ass that way.

[mb53]

I've said everything I want to before this hammer.

[Primate]

*cough*

As for LyLo, quick survival guide for the two town who are left:

If EITHER of you throws down your vote quickly, and it hits town, the town loses. Take your time, read people, THINK ABOUT THE MOTIVES behind their actions.

If you're alive at LyLo it's because there's a reason you're alive at LyLo. Is it because the scum thinks you'll toss the vote on the other townie? Are you the mislynch? Do they think they can persuade you? You're there for a reason, oh yes you are. There's three shots to make sure that you were the two people alive - not anyone else. Especially after tonight, both shots went into someone they wanted dead.

It's very possible and likely to win at LyLo. Scum are still scummy. Town are still town. Just don't tunnel - everything is open to question.

Yeah, this is good advice. Secondguessing yourself to heaviliy under the pressure of lylo is a real threat but you absolutely need to sit back and be as objective as possible at that point.

@GreyIce: I think you're overthinking there. You're definitely overthinking how much thought I'd put into it if I was scum. I generally don't play to do anything other than plan for the current day, kill off the townies who suspect crap then deal with the day as it comes. Needless to say I'm not normally a great scum, though it generally works ok.

VOTE: MB53

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.05

mb53 (4) - Sarg338, Otolia, GreyICE, Primate

Otolia (1) - mb53

Not Voting (2) - Mhi200, Voidedmafia

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, March 18, 2011, at 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).[/area]

[Equinox]

The seven of them tore the place apart, searching for any evidence left behind by Lady Lambdadelta's killer. Nothing was left unturned; they looked into every nook and cranny that human hands could reach, and they did not rest until they all agreed that the killer had successfully covered his or her own tracks. The mafia was still one of them. Since yesterday's lynching had been such a smashing success, they decided to try again. There really wasn't much else they could do, anyway; they could hardly call the authorities. It should have occurred to them to call the cops yesterday as soon as the first couple of bodies fell, but it was too late to regret their decision now.

In preparation for the day's witch hunt, everyone cleaned up the ballroom. All of the tables that were upturned in their morning search were righted again, and the four rotting bodies on the stage were shoved into a space underneath, where they hoped the smell wouldn't bother them. They couldn't do anything about the dried blood, so instead they took one of the tablecloths and placed it on the stage floor like a decorative rug.

Of course, the scene was not complete without a mock gallows. As one of the guests climbed on one of the tables to tie the noose to a hook in the ceiling, the guest tripped and fell, hitting the floor head-first. Immediately, the medical professional among them, mb53, rushed over to see the guest. Fortunately, the guest sustained only a head bump, and the doctor prescribed rest for the patient. He noticed a small cut in the guest's head, however, and he searched among his pockets for a spare bandage.

That was when one of the more paranoid guests noticed something glimmering in mb53's coat pocket. When this guest reached over to grab it, mb53 dodged and then moved the object to an inner pocket, out of everyone's sight. This move raised a few suspicions.

There was no need to ask what it was. There could only be one answer, one that was found in an event of violence that was even quicker than the previous afternoon's. mb53 was never allowed a moment to protest his innocence. The last thing the dying doctor heard were screams of "Kill the mafia! Kill the mafia!"

When everyone calmed down, someone searched mb53's inner pockets. Out came... a locket with a picture of mb53 and a young woman. It wasn't a gun after all.

mb53,

town doctor

, was lynched on Day 2!

Night 2 begins now. The deadline is Friday, March 4, 2011, at 9:17 PM EST (UTC-5).