A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[danakillsu]

My eyes voluntarily left their sockets after those last two posts.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My eyes voluntarily left their sockets after those last two posts.

Did they join your ability to post anything but one-liners out there somewhere?

[Locke Lamora]

And get this: throughout the game, despite pushing for hasdgfas, DGB always kept her original random-stage vote on LynchMePls, who she never tried to push. Only now she moved her vote to Locke, and between him and zoraster, I'm more confident of Locke being town.

The more I read this, the less I understand why you have mentioned zoraster here. What has zoraster got to do with anything? The implication of this is that DGB is scummy because she's voting for someone who you believed was more likely to be town than someone else - have I got that right?

DGB was scummy for not voting who she was pushing. She had suspected you all day, but she only voted you after Kast and zoraster had started a wagon on you. In addition, I could not see her having any reason to suspect you. And no, zoraster has nothing to do with that... he had just stuck in my mind with you since I'd read both of your posts in context, which is where I got my initial reads on you from.

Well, I certainly agree with the first point (in fact I still don't know why I was in the obv-scum category of every DGB scumlist yesterday), but doesn't the phrasing imply that choosing me over zoraster somehow has more relevance here? I get that you think I'm town at this point, which in itself still wasn't a great reason to suspect DGB, but the way you stated it suggested that there was a Locke-zoraster choice to make, and DGB chose the person who wasn't scum.

LMP: I think I might see where you're going here, but can you elaborate on your thoughts when you saw Feysal's reaction to the Chesskid kill?

[Thor665]

Prody dodgy. Still reading (though really by 'reading' I mean waiting to the weekend so I can actually read, though I am on page 11 if that rocks anyone's socks. 80% chance I'll be caught up then.

[Feysal]

I will say it is suspect that Feysal suddenly springs to life and starts posting right after his scum-meta is voiced.

I was prodded. I did not even know there was a case brewing on me at the time I started catching up.

Supplementing your theory with skimmed knowledge from a wiki with no direct source material knowledge is pretty bad play, IMO.

I think it is better than remaining completely in the dark about the source material. In my off-site games I've often not been familiar with the theme, and reading about it from a wiki has been helpful, so I did the same here.

My question about your thoughts – they all sprung from one of Raivann's WIFOM "Why was Chesskid killed" posts. If your suspicion of Raivann of scum is so high why would you answer his post directly as opposed to questioning his possible scum motivation for bringing up the Nightkill speculation?

It did not even occur to me to question him about it. I saw a question, I answered it, it is what I do.

1. You say 'the last person you saw'. This indicates you have seen others making that argument. What were the outcomes of those.

There was one time in Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War. One of the players had been considered obvtown for a while, and when we were about to elect him as Tribune, another player commented that he should not be considered untouchable even though he agreed on him being town. One of the Consuls said that this was undermining his credibility, and since he already had a scum read on him, he executed him at the first opportunity. He was wrong, it was a mislynch. What was even worse, the obvtown player was in fact scum, and the town should have questioned how he kept surviving night after night. The town lost.

2. Benmage made that exact observation in Clash and was dead-on. Additionally I see it elsewhere on site on a regular basis. Is your theory that an isolated incident that went the opposite of expecations should weigh more than other examples?

My theory is that no player should be considered untouchable if they're not completely confirmed. Reasonable suspicions should not be discouraged, by throwing a comment at you such as the one Zdenek made, or by calling it anti-town to suspect people not on Benmage's list. Note that I'm not saying whether it is reasonable to suspect Locke of being a serial killer, just that every case should be evaluated on its own merits, not based on who it was made against.

Twilight Sparkle is being suspected for more than just that. This attempt to minimize the rest of the case against them is noted.

The main point does seem to be that they're not being as pro-town as people expect though.

[hasdgfas]

Prody dodgy. Still reading (though really by 'reading' I mean waiting to the weekend so I can actually read, though I am on page 11 if that rocks anyone's socks. 80% chance I'll be caught up then.

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

*puts head in hands*

[Feysal]

Well, I certainly agree with the first point (in fact I still don't know why I was in the obv-scum category of every DGB scumlist yesterday), but doesn't the phrasing imply that choosing me over zoraster somehow has more relevance here? I get that you think I'm town at this point, which in itself still wasn't a great reason to suspect DGB, but the way you stated it suggested that there was a Locke-zoraster choice to make, and DGB chose the person who wasn't scum.

Maybe you can read it that way. No such implication was intended though, and there is still no implication of where my town read on you came from, like LMP keeps saying.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think it is better than remaining completely in the dark about the source material. In my off-site games I've often not been familiar with the theme, and reading about it from a wiki has been helpful, so I did the same here.

There is a difference between becoming passingly familiar enough with the source material to supplement your game-play and using very limited information to make sweeping conclusions about the set-up (ie that said player being in the game means that it is a single scum set-up). I read up via wiki enough to have a good sense of my character.

It did not even occur to me to question him about it. I saw a question, I answered it, it is what I do.

Really? You are going to pretend you don’t use context and your own reads to make judgements and scum-hunt and just derp derp derp along answering general questions you see?

There was

SNIP

The town lost.

This looks very much like a recitiation of your one example. That’s again dodging the question I asked. Have you seen OTHER examples, and if so what were the outcomes?

The main point does seem to be that they're not being as pro-town as people expect though.

No, that is not the main point. I do a good job summarizing my case against them in post
1170.

[Raivann]

Feysal seems really flustered that he can't get his precious raivann mislynch today like he and his buddies had planned last night.

MoI- Yeah you said something about me being scared I was on chopping block next.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI- Yeah you said something about me being scared I was on chopping block next.

Yeah, if you mean the following quote –

What Pro-Town reason do you have for asking, other than to make sure you aren’t on the chopping block? Keeping the possibility of further shots obscure helps Town as it withholds information from scum.

What in the

HELL

does this have to do with you cribbing your ‘read’ on ASOIAF / Thor Day 1 from me while simultatnoeusly accusing me of being a ASOIAF / Thor buddy? Answer – nothing …

But do answer the original question – what good does asking Cow if he has another shot do for Town?

[Raivann]

Good point it should be unknown.

I was seeing if you would be willing to bus Song. Your post was what I was thinking too.
I don't see the big problem saying I agree with something. Ooh sheeping ooh bfd!

What's your view on DTMaster? Did you have a read on greyICE?

[Twilight Sparkle]

I'm in the middle of writing a wall-post on Magna, but unfortunately, I'm running late for work. And Magna is the kind of player who needs to be tackled with a huge post with headings, subheadings and bulletpoints. But I'm going to answer a couple of things real quick:

@Twilight Sparkle –

If you haven’t already

please answer the following question

Maybe you missed it because it was behind a spoiler:

Why would Kast cease to be scummy if there is more than one scum team?

I'm not Sotty, but I'm still reasonably comfortable fielding this one.

If kast was scum, but there was a second scumteam, the second scumteam would probably be taking at least some measure to groom his mislynch. The tell that "this lurker is getting a free pass - it seems like there is a significant group of players not interesting in pursuing his lynch" only works with ONE such group. With two, one scumgroup might not want to pressure kast, but the one without him would just see him as another easy-shot townie.

Why does it confirm the other as Town? Wouldn’t it confirm the other as “Not Stark / Whatever faction the first flips” aligned? That doesn’t make sense to me.

Interesting.

This was posted before LMP's revelation that he killed chesskid.

Can you guess why we might have assumed that a scum Thor flip would confirm Raivann as town, and vice versa?

Magna, I would

really

like for you to answer this yourself. Because you seem to be implying that our comment was scummy. Do you think there's a problem with the underlying assumption behind it--at least before LynchMePls' claim?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I was seeing if you would be willing to bus Song. Your post was what I was thinking too.

Ah, you want to play the clever “It’s a Tarp” card. Sorry, I don’t think your play warrants that as an acceptable defense.

What's your view on DTMaster? Did you have a read on greyICE?

Are you not reading the thread? I pretty much made my thoughts clear on GreyICE Day 1 (he’s scum, IMO). My read on DTM hasn’t changed, as today’s initial post indicated -

After night results and upon review of yesterday’s play my top suspects are Twilight Sparkle, Bunnylover, DTM, and Nexus.

--

Maybe you missed it because it was behind a spoiler:

Yes, I did miss it. Which is why I don’t think Spoilers are useful beyond hiding large amounts of Raw Vote-Count Data.

Can you guess why we might have assumed that a scum Thor flip would confirm Raivann as town, and vice versa?

Magna, I would really like for you to answer this yourself. Because you seem to be implying that our comment was scummy. Do you think there's a problem with the underlying assumption behind it--at least before LynchMePls' claim?

Now it is important for someone to answer the question put to them without interference? :roll”

My issue is not the relation problem with your statement (Thor flipping scum means Raivann is not scum) but with the absoluteness of Town in the result. You aren’t allowing for any potential third party possibilities (back when the assumption was 1 scum team). For example I’m not giving Locke a 100% pass based on his presumed identity. He’s likely Lannister so I’m going to let his Dayplay guide my read and perhaps later the small chance he’s a Serial Killer will have to be sorted out if his play comes to that.

[danakillsu]

My eyes voluntarily left their sockets after those last two posts.

Did they join your ability to post anything but one-liners out there somewhere?

It's a funny joke, but you obviously haven't read my iso if you actually think this.
And this is line 2.

[Feysal]

Really? You are going to pretend you don't use context and your own reads to make judgements and scum-hunt and just derp derp derp along answering general questions you see?

Of course I do those things. I also answer questions and provide my opinions. You asked me why, in this specific instance, I answered the question instead of questioning Raivann's motives in asking it. I gave you my answer. It did not occur to me. I was much more interested in why Raivann had voted Song with no case and then started pushing her lynch. And for the record, I would never refuse to answer a question just because I suspected whoever asked it. I would consider doing that anti-town or scummy. Even when questioning others, I answer their questions directly, and in return expect them to answer mine.

This looks very much like a recitiation of your one example. That's again dodging the question I asked. Have you seen OTHER examples, and if so what were the outcomes?

I did answer your question, it is you who do not read very well. I said there was "one time". No others. If you think I implied more than one, check again what I said. The "last time" can just as well refer to the only time as to the last time of several.

Why are you asking me this anyway? I feel a discussion like this belongs into the MD forum and not in this thread.

And by the way, if you say this was "again" dodging your question, you'll have to point to where I dodged a question from you before.

Feysal seems really flustered that he can't get his precious Raivann mislynch today like he and his buddies had planned last night.

Rhetoric.

What are you doing in this game? All day you've been sheeping others and asking pointless questions, not contributing at all to finding scum.

[Raivann]

MoI - Whateves y'all bussed the hell out of me in aCoK. Good job that game btw._

[DTMaster]

Just saying that I won't be able to post till Friday (any thing substantial at least). I just read Lynch's action claim. That's random, but a town claim (premature kill action claim suggests more behind the scenes, but that's best said for a later date at the full claim). Though this changes my initial notes.

We have someone that can confirm that scum tried to shoot someone (well duh, since 2 kills) since a Stark still died. I have 1 theory, but this said person who I think it is has a confirmed person. Don't claim (duh) this till you're ready to.
I was going off the fact that Chesskid might have caught scum (hence his death but his anti-town meta), but that nullifies my earlier notes in regards to Chess :S.

Anyways, I'll post answers to questions tomorrow.

Selfnote: BL, Ghost, Xvart. Any other DTM questions.

[Raivann]

^ scummy. Talk about not scumhunting, huh Feysal?

I'm not agreeing with all this thor/raivann flip nonsense.

I'm actually null on Thor atm. Too many scummy players are saying he is scum

[Zdenek]

Regarding Twilight Sparkle suggesting that LL is a serial killer: My knowledge of site meta isn't good enough, so I'd like to ask others (and especially Twilight Sparkle) about this: what do you think are the chances that the mods would put a serial killer in the game and a lyncher who's goal is to lynch the SK?

Your extremely careful language on this ("who most people are percieving?") needs some elaboration. What do you think about LL?

I don't think that he's scum.

If kast was scum, but there was a second scumteam, the second scumteam would probably be taking at least some measure to groom his mislynch. The tell that "this lurker is getting a free pass - it seems like there is a significant group of players not interesting in pursuing his lynch" only works with ONE such group. With two, one scumgroup might not want to pressure kast, but the one without him would just see him as another easy-shot townie.

I think this is a wifom argument and that it is just as likely that Kast isn't being pressured because he's declared V/LA, rather than active lurking (for instance).

Also, do you only feel that Kast is scum because he's not being attacked for being V/LA?

Basically I'm saying there is a difference between active lurking and being completely away from the game. A big difference.

So, Kast has been V/LA, and you suggest that could be scum because he's not being attacked, and then you seem to suggest that being away from the game is a reasonable defence.

No elaboration that he even knows what soft accusations MoI is referring.

I don't feel the need to repeat things that have already been said. If you want clarification about something, ask.

Asks us an obvious question before more sheeping language to latch onto MoI. I have no clue if he even understands the case MoI is presenting on us at this point or what. He is just latching onto the reasoning with what feel very much like, empty words.

My question about this:

Beyond that, I suspect to find at least one scum in kast/lmp/nexus/mikujin.

was not obvious. There is a difference between posting a list of people who you think might be scum, and saying that you think there is at least one scum in a list of people. To me the latter suggests that you think there is a connection between the people and that as the players flip town, your confidence that one of the remaining players in the list is scum increases disproportionately compared to that of the other players.

Yes, I saw the inconsistency regarding Zdenek from Twilight Sparkle

Funny, I missed it. What was the inconsistency?

Also noting once again the use of the phrase “softly attacking” more MoI mirroring.

"Noting" that I am mirroring MoI for using standard terminology is mudflinging.


Here are some other reasons I think Twilight Sparkle is scum (as requested by Twilight Sparkle):

I agree with much of what MoI, Benmage and Magua have said, and I am not going to repeat their cases in their entirety, but there will inevitably be significant overlap.

First of all, I see that there is an inconsistency in how TS wants to treat almost confirmed town players: hascow and LL.

With Hascow, Twilight was willing to call him confirmed town immediately.

I thought he was almost certaintly fakeclaiming, but after his shot actually went through, I'm calling him confirmed town.

Now that there is good evidence that we have two scum-teams, what do you think of hascow? Still confirmed town?

On the other hand, with LL, TS insists being careful.

Point out that someone being treated as confirmed town isn't actually confirmed town - and specifically including the criterion to look for that might disprove a LL confirmation - is what we in the business call really fucking important.

So, why the careful attitude with LL, but the cavalier one with hascow?

There's no rule saying that all of your scumreads have to be on a scumteam together. It's sloppy to clear people as town based off of flips that haven't happened yet.

We think Thor has a very large chance of flipping scum, we think Raivann has a fairly large chance of flipping scum, and a scumflip on one virtually confirms the other as town. There's no contradiction here.

In the first paragraph, TS suggests that there we should assume that there is just one scum team, but in the second paragraph, TS argues that a scum flip of either Thor or Raivann would imply that the other is town, which is an argument that requires there be only one scum team.

There is also a conflict in how Twilight views we should treat new players.

@MagnaofIllusion: I've been meaning to ask you about something. How come you attacked GreyICE for accusing you of IIoA early on D1, but never responded to this post of mine?

It rang a small bell for me at the time when you attacked an easier target with a more controversial playstyle but left me alone. Maybe it's because despite GreyICE's rhetorical skills sucking, he rang as so genuinely town from our POV, so I disliked you hammering to him to death.

In that post, Twilight, subtly attacks MoI ("rang a small bell for me") for attacking an easy target.

Here, Twilight explains attacking Shadow and ASOIAF, with the hope of getting reactions out of them.

Not quite argumentative. It wasn't a true argument, it was just random trolling, and I'm of the mindset (apparently the only one) that scum are more primed to be unhelpful to the town and thus more likely to troll.

I over-justified it because if I was right lots of pressure out of nowhere would make shadow-scum slip.

Our original vote on ASOIAF was in part to get a reaction out of a player who'd probably be easy to read under pressure.

As far as lack of scum hunting goes. Twilight has been guilty of wasting time trying to figure out hascow's post restriction, arguing about policy lynching, talking about Hascow's post restriction, posting pictures, appeals to emotion about the state of the hydra.

Here Twilight wastes time talking about the governor ability, but I don't think it was ever followed up on. That makes me feel like this was a purely rhetorical discussion designed to make it seem like they were being active.

I'm going to ask something a bit strange. Do people think that a one-shot governor would be useful for town? Say, on a town read in LYLO who looks lynchable but whom you're sooooo sure was town (which is a double-edged sword, if you're wrong or it )?

Right now, I think the role would mainly have a scum benefit, and even then, only when played at the right time. I'm asking because we're discussing the best use of the role in the Hydra QT. We'll explain more, later.

There was this fluffy waste of time argument with MoI.

That condescending attitude helps no one. Yes, this is a game about reading, but that doesn't mean that it's equally easy, enjoyable, or useful to give us giant walls. If I were to write all of my posts in Pig Latin, it is obvious I could not take recourse in the "this is a written game" defense; but oftentimes slogging through a large wall is equally as annoying as deciphering Pig Latin.

I'm also not too fond of Twilight's rationale for it's early votes.

There was the early vote on Shadow for the following reasons:

you're scummy for Raising without voting and your only justification for self-raising being "a concise way to piss off zoraster."

There's no motivation for either faction. But someone who's scum is more likely to be primed to troll. Especially since this is Shadow's first large game on mafiascum. Scum tend to like to show false bravado, in my experience.

Which is a reason that has already been pointed out as far from convincing.

Considering my view of Thor, I can't fault Twilight for voting Song. However

You don't know what a VI means, so what exactly did you like about the posts of someone most just recommending we policy lynch them? Rav points this out in 209; I am similarly confused.

Vote: A Song of Ice and Fire

the rationale for the vote is poor since Benmage had said quite a bit more, and
it had already been pointed out by Raivann.

I'll comment on the following since Twilight suggested that I didn't understand this argument above.

MoI:

Explain how this:

Despite rolling town. I've been looking forward to this game way too much to not give it my A-game.

As long as your A-game doesn’t involve faking a guilty on someone who ends up Lannister aligned I’m happy to hear this.

Gels with this:

Unraise MoI
Raise Benmage

I’m willing to do this based on past experiences with you Ben. Don’t disappoint me.

Magna replies by saying that he has town read on Benmage, but that he's also seen Benmage fake a guilty result on a town player, which he wasn't happy with. To this TS responds with:

To me, it read like you were taking a snipe at him as a VI and yet you had raised him after your early game rant. Your explanation tells me I read that wrong, but I am still paranoid. Can I get some games you were in with Benmage as a "Pro-Town force"?

Magna provides the links, and criticizes Twilight's accusation that he was taking a snipe at Benmage as a VI.

To me, Twilight's accusation reads as an attempt to drive wedge between Benmage and MoI who's co-operation could be strongly pro-town.

Please point to the exact quote where you think I was swiping at Benmage as a VI. I’d really like to know where you saw that because that’s about as far removed from what I’ve said about Ben as you can get.

The snipe I am talking about is what I originally quoted here. It read like a dig at him because it was a response you gave to ben that wasn't actually needed. Ben was just talking about bringing his A game and you brought up some fail on his part as if he needed a reminder. I don't understand why you would do that unless it was you trying to discredit him. But I have noticed that your playstyle has changed from when we first played in that you like to throw out a lot of these quips at people that makes you sound very judgmental. I'm guessing it is a null tell now, but I don't like it much.

Combine all that with the fact I remembered you were raising benmage despite him not playing up to your standards recently and I saw a contradiction.

Actually as I type this out, I am getting more and more confused as to why you would raise Ben. He doesn't seem like your kind of player. His style is either hit or miss from my experience and as already demonstrated, you look down on players who “miss”. I'm gonna check out these links you have provided, but out of everyone in the game... I'm having a hard time swallowing you raising Benmage. Gut says you did it to either get him on your good side or to go with the flow. Neither is a good thing

TS doesn't read the requested links, and continues to criticize MoI raising Benmage.

"I had this read yesterday" doesn't sit at all well with me. Scum are oftentimes over-focused on consistency over anything else, and that seems awfully much like "hey guys, look, I didn't change my mind." A mijukin townflip casts a serious shadow on dana.

Or it's a townie with a static read from one day to the next. I don't see how a Mikujin town flip could cast doubt on Dana, and view this as a poor attack on Dana.




I can't help but pointing out the irony of TS attacking me for being a lurker/background player after this:

I love it when someone who has gone under the radar mysteriously pops out of the woodworks to defend their lack of contribution when someone mentions their name.

...

...

What are you all looking at me for? *whistles innocently*

Also, your entire case on me is based on the fact that I agree with others about you, which is not a scum tell.

I don't have time to reread the arguments between Feysal and LMP at the moment, so I don't feel comfortable commenting on that issue at the moment.

Mod and all, I will be V/LA until Sunday. I apologize for these frequent absences, but I've been travelling a lot these past three weeks. My schedule calms down after this.

[Benmage]

This is an unacceptable lynch for TODAY. Look elsewhere. We can reconsider it tomorrow. But for today he gets a pass. I've already said this. So either lynch me, or look into the many people I've listed for today. Otherwise this waste of fucking time is anti-town.

This is just nonsense to me. Any lynch that can be "reconsidered tomorrow" is not a "waste of fucking time" today. Nobody gets a pass.

I'll govern it yes. If you can't wait 1 day to lynch Raivann...and actually want me to use my govern ability on some shit like that...Than now would be the right time for you to claim scum.

Why would you govern someone that you would be open to lynching one day later?

-They do if I say they do.

-Because I have a town read on them..and am allowing them some allotted time to show enough others that they are town.

--Remind me to come backt o xvart..and post 1186.

Sorry, but this all stems from 'Raivann still looks bad', and I think needs much more pressure without hiding behind an equal/opposing lynch like day 1.

So pressure him... I never said don't pressure anyone...He simply won't hang today.

-1193…one big appeal.

But I will be honest and say that I can see why we're drawing some heat. Yes, we've been scattered and slow to move votes, we didn't particularly attack any of the flipped scum, we haven't been a protown driving force, and we've been struggling to catch up for most of the game. And sorry, hito, but I actually see Magna's point on Shadow, because I don't agree with the psychology of newb!scum being MORE likely to be controversial than newb!town.

So dont be mad when you hang.

It is fucking unfair to penalize them because my name is in the sig, under the logic that three non-VIs > two > one.

The level of play from this slot is unsatisfactory from any single one of you let alone any sort of combo of the 3.

Part of this is time constraints, and part of this is because the three of us are too similar.

The three of you are too similar?? How does that equate to the following?:

As a result, we've been a bit scattered in our suspicions on D1. I'll write, "Let's vote Kast, because his first post is scummy fluff!" in the QT, and Sotty will say, "What do you mean? I totally agree with him on the Hand and policy lynches, so he's my BFF." And then we all go, "Oh, shit, I can't vote until you agree with me," and then things stagnate, because we're all so behind that we don't have a full picture of the game, and no one is confident enough in a read to push it. And by the time we can decide on a compromise vote, the conversation has moved on.

Furthermore this just reads as hydra excusing.

That said, scum can also use being a hydra as an excuse to fence-sit. We should not be given a free pass, because it's our responsibility to pull our slot's weight. But sadly, this is the reality of a hydra composed of three slow and deliberate players who are struggling to catch up. All we can do is try to be more cohesive from now on, so that you aren't forced to lynch us eventually for being unreadable.

Well atleast it looks like you'll understand why you die.

All of us are frustrated that we don't have the time and energy to play this game at our top level--which was the whole reason we're hydra-ing in the first place.

For everyone being time-strapped...All the heads trying to agree in a QT and then act seems like the most illogical move ever...No one foresaw huge delays in posting?

I'm actually wavering on Raivann, not just because of his interactions with diddin but because he's been showing the occasional genuine stab at scumhunting--

if this isn't multiscum, then he's unusually competent

.

Ooooo someones been playing to many games with benmage.

How was my stance not strong? I think governor is a bad role, and it's probably best used by trashing it. As Hand, I would hold on to it because people wanted it to "get reads", but my inclination is that I would never use it.

We didn't give you hand despite the town read. This is because we were worried you were going to try to be a bad-ass hero with it (see ISO 30) by doing shit like - well, like you're doing. (Even if all of the scum are on your "to lynch" list, it's still not a good idea to decree that some people are vote-immune.)

-Trashing it...bad.
-So I named all the scum, and call town immune..and that has a negative effect on the game??
--Most illogical thing I've ever heard...moreover I must've said 100 times that it’s a TODAY thing.
---Who is specifically not on my list that you would've liked to see there?

4. Way to much non-confrontational coastage.

At least in my personal case, my biggest scumread was ASOIAF, and she flaked from the game. True point I should've had more than one scumspect.

Truth is about half of the names just ran together in my head until I actually sat down and ISO'd every goddamn one.

Yeah way to attack someone in their first game. Talk about the very essence of being non-confrontational. In nonmafia terms she probably has no clue which her left and right hand are.

-Yeah..a one team scumteam really needs to work to find flaws in others plays seeing as they know who scum is.

**5. Ding Ding Ding. In 1016 I illustrate how scum reacted to Zor's claim. You can reference diddin's reaction and match it up nicely with Sparkles.

dindin posted words and was scum.

Benmage, you're posting words as well. You're scum.

I see no reason to pussyfoot around voting for people who are obviously fakeclaiming.

This analogy makes no sense.

(that's the problem)

I'd be worried if I was scum against me too.

zorasters fakeclaim is bad enough that both town

and scum

can vote him with impunity.

Wouldn't you just love that to be true.

she shouldn't have found Benmage to be townie and raise-worthy.

Not necessarily true. She could've been raising me for the boldness of my posts..You can't flat out say she had no reason....Point is you don't know the reason.

And the stuff about the reaction to a fake claim is weak because you are generalizing behavior to simple binary behavior.

So far Chess has flipped town. And Diddin scum. I wouldn't try and put-down my commentary so easily.

Anyone hear tree's being chainsawed?

I have to agree with this sentiment. Also I don't understand why Mina's large wall of "oh woe is me" means they are town.

QFT

[Benmage]

DAAAAMn dis shit be getting dense. .. I got a couple pgs to work through.

[Benmage]

What Pro-Town reason do you have for asking, other than to make sure you aren’t on the chopping block? Keeping the possibility of further shots obscure helps Town as it withholds information from scum.

The this you were asking, of course, had to do with whether Cow had further Day Vig shots.

I have a very obvious town answer for this.

especially less experienced scum who don’t have a meta repository to fall back on like other

‘outrageous’

players.

Huh?

*Points to the top of his post*

I'll look back into this.

Why did you unvote here?

Because I think that Benmage is probably town, and if he's a PR, then he knows what he's doing.
Actually, answering that question made me realize that he probably wouldn't have a problem with:

unnominate nominate: Setael

vote: Bunnylover

DANA!!

I have no issue with the Setael Nom. But shit you might as well go back to voting him, because you went from one person I said not to vote.. to another person I said not to vote... yeesh

Point being, there's nothing to indicate he's PR, and my question on your post I just quoted. What does him being PR have to do with anything when there's no such inclination or claim, let alone a clear on himself.

Actually I did quasi-claim something...Didn't I?

DGB

, I've read you in ISO and played with you. You're better than this. Play harder.

INDEED.

Seriously DGB. I got another early town read. No need to fall of the map and be utterly useless... And if you choose to...atleast just vote what I vote.

If DGB is scum, does that retroactively make us feel better about DTM?

Don't we already feel good about DTM?

[Twilight Sparkle]

Okay I'm busy with homework at the moment and can't get to that whole zdenek wallpost at the moment, but:

Your extremely careful language on this ("who most people are percieving?") needs some elaboration. What do you think about LL?

I don't think that he's scum.

Just gonna go ahead and make sure everyone sees that one.

Response to zdenek to come.

[Raivann]

RE: LL

I say Petyr Balish is 3rd party. I've read the source material and if you think that Petyr is Lannister aligned, you're fooling yourself.

Petyr only looks out for numero uno.

[Benmage]

Regarding Twilight Sparkle suggesting that LL is a serial killer: My knowledge of site meta isn't good enough, so I'd like to ask others (and especially Twilight Sparkle) about this: what do you think are the chances that the mods would put a serial killer in the game and a lyncher who's goal is to lynch the SK?

Woah I looked up for what TS was saying..and read this too.

Yeah LL aint SK.