Newbie 1070 - Game Over

[Alduskkel]

The tags are fine. You quoted too much!!!!

Vote Count

muh316 (4) - splitfarvle, T-Bone, Ellyssa, Jack Forman
Quaroath (2) - Rain, Stels
Stels (1) - Quaroath

Not Voting (2) - muh316, barefoot-fighter

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Quaroath]

The tags are fine. You quoted too much!!!!

meh

go me?

[Ellyssa]

It looks like somehow the " in the quote="name" bit got changed to ” for the last few quotes. Weird Microsoft Word auto-correction!

@Rain (or others) Jack put muh at L-1. What should be "standard procedure" now for muh or anyone else at L-1 in a game, if any? (Like, I've seen some games where they claim at L-1, but have no idea if it's a standard thing to do or if it's even really a smart thing to do.) I'd say at least that no one else should hammer him before he gets a chance to speak though.

@Quaroath You said you've felt a barefoot-Stels scumteam. Have you seen any sort of connection between the two, or they just happen to be your main suspects besides Rain? I'm not sure if you've listed any already, may have missed it, I only saw the early post you referred to where you said you mainly suspected them, before Rain jumped on and you two OMGUS'd each other. Adding to the question, which of the three do you think is more likely to be innocent, since you did vote Rain too? One of them at least has to be innocent.

Also, I disagree with one counterpoint you made against Jack; now that I've re-read it,

Quaroath- You flip flop more than a fish out of water with your votes. Lets see, i am pretty sure this is in order- Your votes- 1 stels, 2 rain, 3 jack, 4 bear, 5 rain, and 6 bear. You are all over the board and don't tell me it is to get info out when you have not voted t-bone (even though you have suspicions he is scum), but Splitfavle and Muh you talk about but are posting enough info for you to not vote them for info??

Read what I type more carefully, I have never said I think T-bone is scum, I have said that a lynch on T-bone would be more informative and thus better for the town, than a policy lynch. My scum group has been preety static all game. Pretty sure that's not flip-flopping. What's more..
your vote list for me is simply full of holes. Untrue even. You have 6 votes listed for me, I've voted 4 times (though technically it's only three as I screwed up the bolding on one. The following are the votes I've made:

RVS:
Stels (This is the one i botched the bold on), Rain (voted this because of the bolding issue on my first vote)

Real Votes:
First "real vote"
Jack over the no lynch issue

Second and only other post-RVS vote:
Rain for the misrepresentations.

You did a FoS on bf in #76 between those two real votes, and that is essentially a real vote too, except you did not want to put her at L-1. More to the point it would have been a real vote if she was not in any danger of being lynched. Rain also pointed this out in #113 as well, but that was before Jack's post and your counterpost. Agreed Stels twisted the phrasing on that particular quote a bit though. I definitely read that as "My (suspected) scum group has been pretty static all game".

@barefoot Welcome back! Still staying nicely neutral I see, though. Interesting that you didn't vote muh even though you noted the case against him, though probably a good thing since he is L-1 and hasn't been on to defend himself yet. I think you're still the only one without any vote besides muh. If he is scum, that may heighten the suspicion on you because scumbuddies wouldn't always want to vote each other (except for bussing, but I'm not sure any of the others who aren't on muh's bandwagon at the moment are really even considering him as a lynch yet).

Though if he is town then you just passed on an easy hammer on him (because you wouldn't have to explain an unvote on someone else before voting, like the others would) so perhaps you're not scum if he's town. I'd still like to hear who you feel your main suspects are though, as well as any reaction to what I said above.

[Rain]

Generally, people claim at L-1. If the person to be lynched is town, might as well reveal the information and let the town discuss before a hammer is dropped. If he's scum, it gives a chance for him to fake claim and for town to judge whether it's plausible.

My feel towards claims is that they are as reliable as the person who claims it. A scummy person who claims some awesome town power role is still scummy. In this case, however, muh316's.... weird. He doesn't put much of a defense, although he was quickly brought from L-3 to L-1, and has not posted since he was at L-3. Then again, much said against him isn't quite convincing. I wouldn't hammer him anytime soon, not before he posts something.

[Jack Forman]

Muh's lack of posting makes me think that he could be lurking, but at the same time if someone is playing the role of mafia you would think that he would be checking on the game more often. Even if he is lurking, with 4 votes on him you would think he would be all up in defense mode to stay alive. Since he has not posted in 71 hours this makes me think that he could be town and lacks the interest to play a townie role. Just a thought before we bring the hammer down on him.

[Jack Forman]

Yeah I know, that was a list of people I'd rather lynch for information than policy lynch jack at that time. Don't think a T-bone lynch would be a good idea after the last page. Still feel barefoot-stels.

These are two different quotes, but I would like to know what T-Bone said in the last page that made you change your mind on him.

[T-Bone]

I didn't say anything in the last page. He just wants the heat off of him.

[Jack Forman]

Ebwop- sorry I had two quotes at first but then took one of the out after I re-read it. Quaroath you said in post 116 that T-Bone contribution= zero and in 117 you say you dont have a good read on him due to lack of contribution. So I was just trying to figure out why you hadn't try voting him to get information out of him like you had done to others.

[Jack Forman]

I didn't say anything in the last page. He just wants the heat off of him.

How do you feel about Quaroath then T-Bone? And I think he was talking about the post on page 6 since you really had no input on page 7.

[muh316]

Townhunting is what I do. Its pretty much the same as scumhunting except its like eating the good part of the Pizza first and keeping the bad part for last.(Its actually what I do in real life:) )
What I don't get is why I'm at L-1 on such a weak case.
Ellyssa, I gave a list. You can understand that whoever was not on that list was suspicious or borderline suspicious.

[Stels]

@Quaroath: I think you're just getting very personal now, insulting me, my reading comprehension as well as taking the pre-game incident very close to heart by calling me a snert at the same time. The fact that you can't phrase your sentences correctly isn't my fault, since you can't actually express your opinions clearly by referring to something specific, like putting (barefoot-stels) in parentheses. The fact that "My scum team has been static all game" implies many thoughts. So what if it's been static all game on who you think the two scum are? The fact didn't change that you never actually got me voted during that assumption, instead going for Rain. If I've been your supposed scum-group all game, why haven't you voted for me before?

@barefoot-fighter: So explain to me the correlation of being troubled with names and that giving incentive to stating that we have different roles?

[T-Bone]

I don't have feelings for Quaroth, sorry Jack.

[Ellyssa]

(@muh Doesn't everyone eat pizza like that? )

I put muh at L-2 to pressure him to speak more, the L-1 was a bit of a surprise but by the time I had logged on this morning, the war was still raging on between Quaroath and Rain/Stels, and everyone else who hadn't voted for Muh yet already had at least a post go by.

@Jack in #179 I agree. He definitely doesn't seem to be an active lurker in the sense of reading-but-not-posting as some Mafia do.

What I don't get is why I'm at L-1 on such a weak case.

You're coasting and charting the neutral course. You're not actively playing. Only answering a few directed questions. No insight about anyone else at all other than a gut feeling about 4 people who could be townies. No explanation why, even for them. I think you're hurting town, even if you ARE town. @Everyone else, have you read his ISO? In the view of "only plays defence" and "tries to stay perfectly neutral"?

Muh is infuriating though. Really? 3 sentences when you're at L-1, for even what you describe as a weak case? :/ Not caring, to the point of apathy? I agree it's a somewhat weak case, but that's because you've posted nothing of substance, so a large part of the attack is on what you haven't said, as opposed to what you have. If it's so weak, there should be tons you can say to tear it up to shreds. But you're not! I think at this point, really, if you get lynched and flip town, it'd be filed under the policy lynch category. Which is ironic in a roundabout way, but perhaps better to do on D1 than nearer a potential lylo-that-contains-muh, especially when you COULD still be Mafia.

If you flip mafia, great for us - and maybe that IS why you're not worried currently, because you know who the other one is (hi barefoot!) and know they won't hammer you, and everyone else is busy arguing semantics with Quaroath and voting each other. But I'm not as certain you are Mafia now because you admittedly didn't panic at L-1. Didn't do much of ANYTHING at L-1 though.

I'm not convinced on Quaroath to vote him yet (although he has done a few fishy things, one in particular that nags at me that I commented on in #103 - about #91, though there's admittedly lots of wine there now), he still seems to be fairly strong town overall.. I think I will take another look at his + Rain + Stels' ISOs side by side tomorrow though. But you know what? I think I'll let my vote sit where it is for now pending,
a) Meaty post from muh,
b) Bandwagon on barefoot, my other suspect so far, or
c) A re-read on Quaroath/Rain/Stels' ISOs giving some new insight on him, or one of his two accusers.
( d) Extenuating circumstances. Deadline lynch, someone slips up, etc. )

[Rain]

You can understand that whoever was not on that list was suspicious or borderline suspicious.

Not only is the above hella weak, it's also hella scummy. It's akin to saying "you can interpret it however you want, I won't commit to an opinion right now". Scum can easily coast by claiming to townhunt (since they know who's town anyways); scumhunting and posting reasons why you find a person scummy is much harder (read: townier).

I like this new Jack. I will no longer support a PL on Jack.

[barefoot-fighter]

@barefoot Welcome back! Still staying nicely neutral I see, though. Interesting that you didn't vote muh even though you noted the case against him, though probably a good thing since he is L-1 and hasn't been on to defend himself yet. I think you're still the only one without any vote besides muh. If he is scum, that may heighten the suspicion on you because scumbuddies wouldn't always want to vote each other (except for bussing, but I'm not sure any of the others who aren't on muh's bandwagon at the moment are really even considering him as a lynch yet).

Though if he is town then you just passed on an easy hammer on him (because you wouldn't have to explain an unvote on someone else before voting, like the others would) so perhaps you're not scum if he's town. I'd still like to hear who you feel your main suspects are though, as well as any reaction to what I said above.

It's too early to "hammer" muh316, besides his case

is

weak. Even now when has spoken, he hasn't said much and I want to hear more from him, but I dont know how to apply any more pressure. He's at L-1, is he tired of the game or something?
If he gets lynched by one quick-hammer now and flips scum, is town lucky. To catch a scum with a case like this, and have him not fight for his life whatsoever...

I admit I'm acting neutral(ish), but I'm afraid of pissing someone off and getting more votes on me. There are players here who are voting for anyone who directly attacks them.
My eyes are on the Stels-Rain-Quaroath-T-Bone little hassle.

@barefoot-fighter: So explain to me the correlation of being troubled with names and that giving incentive to stating that we have different roles?

I said "possibly different roles". I didn't mean to offend. I was saying there had been some trouble with names. Please calm down, I'm not Quaroath.

[Quaroath]

Ebwop- sorry I had two quotes at first but then took one of the out after I re-read it. Quaroath you said in post 116 that T-Bone contribution= zero and in 117 you say you dont have a good read on him due to lack of contribution. So I was just trying to figure out why you hadn't try voting him to get information out of him like you had done to others.

Yeah I know, that was a list of people I'd rather lynch for information than policy lynch jack at that time. Don't think a T-bone lynch would be a good idea after the last page. Still feel barefoot-stels.

These are two different quotes, but I would like to know what T-Bone said in the last page that made you change your mind on him.

Don't think he's scum. Not going to bother trying to pressure a player I think is town. Post #140 and #146 swung me.

I didn't say anything in the last page. He just wants the heat off of him.

Nah, Don't really feel a lot of heat right now.

@stels #185, had a better place for it, couldn't be bothered to vote you since I'd said I thought you were scummy early on.

@Elyssa I'm really not sure I agree with the sentiment in Jacks #179, that post is loaded with WIFOM issues. I'm not really sure it's more than circular logic and I definately don't think he should be lynched because he didn't defend himself quickly.

You can understand that whoever was not on that list was suspicious or borderline suspicious.

Not only is the above hella weak, it's also hella scummy. It's akin to saying "you can interpret it however you want, I won't commit to an opinion right now". Scum can easily coast by claiming to townhunt (since they know who's town anyways); scumhunting and posting reasons why you find a person scummy is much harder (read: townier).

I like this new Jack. I will no longer support a PL on Jack.

The above is true, on both counts.

It's too early to "hammer" muh316, besides his case

is

weak. Even now when has spoken, he hasn't said much and I want to hear more from him, but I dont know how to apply any more pressure. He's at L-1, is he tired of the game or something?
If he gets lynched by one quick-hammer now and flips scum, is town lucky. To catch a scum with a case like this, and have him not fight for his life whatsoever...

I admit I'm acting neutral(ish), but I'm afraid of pissing someone off and getting more votes on me. There are players here who are voting for anyone who directly attacks them.
My eyes are on the Stels-Rain-Quaroath-T-Bone little hassle..

I have a hard time reading apathy to L-1 pressure. Do you claim VT? What's the point? people get called scum when they get defensive, people get called scum when they are apathetic (or seem to be). Muh not pushing a case on anyone is not particularly town though. The big thing for me is i think town tends to defend then present a case, not just ignore the pressure or say "meh, whatever, lynch me if you want".

@barefoot - worrying about votes to much comes across scummy. Votes happen. Unless you are at L-2 or L-1, it isn't a huge worry in my mind because picking up three quick votes is unlikely, to say the least.

I've been admittedly biased against stels, because he's been irritating me consistently (including pre game) and decided to interpret one of my posts in the scummiest light it could be cast, then cut only that line from my post, and use it as the touchstone on a case on me. It's a little frustrating, yes. Combined with the repeated pokes on nonsensical issues early on, I wasn't predisposed to being happy with stels.

That said:

Stels, I'd like to apologize for the attitude of my posts, I've had pneumonia, I haven't been sleeping, and I'm stressed more right now that I have been in a longer time (finals+work imploding with my sickness/hospitalization) and I vented it all in your general direction because it's easy to do in an online forum. The person on the other side of a screen is the easiest target to go after with anger. I apologize and promise it won't happen again. I hope you will accept my apology.

[Alduskkel]

@mod, could you please fix the quote tags in #171. Sorry about that.

Just repost it. As the Mod, I prefer to interfere as little as possible, and interfering here is a little pointless. It's about equivalent to asking me to spell-check posts too, no offense.

Vote count unchanged from the one in #175.

[Jack Forman]

@T-Bone how do you have no feelings what so ever for Quaroath? Sorry that is just jacked lol

@Quaroath how did T-Bones post #140 and 146 make you swing and why do you think he is town now. I hope you are feeling better and I know what it is like when you have that much going on IRL.

@Barefoot you need to stop worrying about getting a few votes placed on you people are going to get pissed off if either way.

@Muh why do you have no defense against the 4 votes on you and townhuntting sounds scummy to me but whatever you say.

@everyone else Muh doesn't seem to want to play anymore or he just doesn't care. I think we have got just about all the infor. we are going to get from D1 lets lynch and move on to the next day. If Muh is not a lynch we want to do, fine then lets start making cases on someone else. That is all for now I hope everyone has a good day IRL.

[T-Bone]

Because I'm a psychopath and keep all my feelings bottled up inside.

I think it's time for someone to drop the hammer. I think we've milked this Day phase for everything it is worth. Personally it's driving me crazy because I'm accustomed to 4 day deadlines and 20 page days for day phases. We've been at this for over a week. Posting has slowed down considerably. It's time to take the horse out to the back and shoot it.

[muh316]

Muh is infuriating though. Really? 3 sentences when you're at L-1, for even what you describe as a weak case? :/ Not caring, to the point of apathy? I agree it's a somewhat weak case, but that's because you've posted nothing of substance, so a large part of the attack is on what you haven't said, as opposed to what you have. If it's so weak, there should be tons you can say to tear it up to shreds. But you're not! I think at this point, really, if you get lynched and flip town, it'd be filed under the policy lynch category. Which is ironic in a roundabout way, but perhaps better to do on D1 than nearer a potential lylo-that-contains-muh, especially when you COULD still be Mafia.

Yeah 3 sentences. The case that Split posted was already answered. Your going to lynch me for something I haven;t said.
The case is weak in general. Its not the specific bits if it that I can tear apart. I am being pretty lazy here. T-Bone its not good to rush the town. Rushing leads to mislynches. This is obviously the case here. I like T-Bone's mindset of 20 pages. I like that. This game is too slow for me. I have seen Newbie games finish with just 15 pages. They don't end up well. I'm just saiyan that we should pick up the pace in this game. If lynching me helps discussion, so be it. I'm willing to die.

[splitfarvle]

If you aren't having fun, why not ask for a replacement? Speaking for myself, it isn't fun having someone claiming that their scummy playing is a result of laziness.

[Stels]

@barefoot-fighter: I'm not offended or anything, I just wanted to see the correlation between how you got from being confused by names to presuming that we may have different roles the sentence after that was said.
Also, I noticed that you just pushed off the pressure by referring to Quaroath, that I should lay off you and go back to him, since I am currently voting him. This strikes me as very odd. Why would you do so in the first place?
UNVOTE: Quaroath
VOTE: barefoot-soldier

@Quaroath: I understand what you went through, and I'm not offended, it's just, this is a game of logic and reasoning, not some flame war between people. I just wanted to stop that from happening further than it already was.

@muh316: So you did your town-hunting and have come up with that little list of 4 people you consider town, what about the rest? Are you going to scumhunt at least, because, even if you do find town, we still need to find the scum...

[muh316]

I'm up for voting barefoot right now.

VOTE: Barefoot-fighter

[Rain]

That... was... scummy.

Any last words/claims before I hammer, muh?

[Jack Forman]

@Muh when you quote it is helpful if you say who you are quoting and I don't think that we have be rushing the game you said "this game is too slow for me" but you have done nothing to help move it along and you have side stepped a lot of questions that have been asked of you. Why are you voting barefoot now???? You say our case is week against you but you don't even make a case against barefoot. You said said lets pick up the pace in this game but you didn't post for 72 hours the other day, so how about you pick up the pace!!

@T-bone you want the day to be over but you have done very very little in the last few pages to help with anything. For now I am done talking to you since you never have anything to say to people when asked and I still think that you are lurking and I don't care how many times you say your not you are.

@Rain I would like your input on Muh and Barefoot votes.