Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!


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Post Post #1550 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 am

Post by The Fonz »

To end P10 (I can't lie, i'm struggling to find the motivation here).

tual scumhunting from Lowell. Now, this places me in a quandary. The only game I've ever played with him where he tried, he was scum (the recently-finished Simpsons Mafia). Contrast that with how useless he was in Consulmaker as town. But I really don't want to lynch someone because they're scumhunting.

Though again, I think the actual point on Gonnano is weak... people who haven't posted at all in thread aren't particularly likely to be tactical lurkers.
XScorpion wrote:I totally don't understand how people are QQ'ing about the 'speed' of PI's wagon when he hasn't even responded since it started.
This doesn't make any sense. It's precisely a wagon growing close to lynch before the wagonee has a chance to respond that should make a town player worried about it.

Then pretty much the rest of the page is the usual Furc fail. Nothing really to see here.
DavidParker wrote:Furc seems to be living upto his anti-town reputation fairly well.
This is pretty scummy. Filler post. What do Furc's actions tell you about his alignment? What about the people wagoning him?

Scummy looking ThAd wagon jump.
gonnano wrote:But I can tell you that this is definitely not pro-town behavior:
Furcolow wrote:
vote: poisonivy for the reason of survival.
Disagree, as noted I think being open about it is a protown sign.

156 is pretty fillerish as well. Strong ThAd scum read right now.

Steph should expand on why bv's iso is scummy.
gonnano wrote:
ThAdmiral wrote:It is if you are town.
Actually, I believe the pro-town move in this situation would be for Furcolow to try to find scum, not to just push any wagon that isn't his. Especially since we've still got weeks until the deadline.
When you're as much of a VI as Furcolow, then your primary aim as town seems mostly to be not to get lynched Day one. Pressuring certain VIs, and especially this one, can be counterproductive, since they tend to go into their shells/ focus solely on defending/ OMGUS. If you wanna policy lynch him, policy lynch him, it's perfectly justifiable, what I don't like is people trying to make out that his usual playstyle actually makes him more likely to be scum.
BV wrote:If someone (a townie) read the possible mafia wincon (Rule #4), then yes, they'd notice their own wincon (Rule #3) and the fact that each player has an alignment, a nationality, and a role (Rule #2). This, of course, implies that alignment and nationality are separate.
Sure, but that doesn't rule out from the perspective of someone with a free world or third world role pm that the scum are all Soviet, nor that all Soviets are scum. It's quite possible that the town is multinational but that a scumgroup might be monoethnic. Until we have a Free world aligned scum flip or a Soviet town flip, this is all just speculation.
XScorpion wrote:PI it's kind of hard to say I'm 'twisting everything [you] say' when what you say is pretty vague and hard to understand.
This is correct, though I got a 'deliberately picking the scummiest-sounding interpretation of everything' vibe off you earlier, which indicates blinkered town or railroading scum, I'm not sure yet. Though your previous post where you do ask for clarification mitigates.

Hmmm, Pappums looked like oppo scum with his first vote, but I like him better for his reaction to furc.

Ghostwriter does actually make a pretty good scum point on furc, the first I've seen- it's one thing to give up, it's another to play to survive, but to do both at once?

Hmmmm, don't like Beast's wall. Since you can't infer scum from furc's normal playstyle, you clearly can't infer obvtown either. He looked pretty town early on to me, but seems to be slipping back into furcidiocy.

Artem 199 comes across as sincere.

Hmmm, don't like Gonnano going 'Furc is antitown not scummy' then commenting at the bottom of the post. I don't see the sense in dwelling on his antitownness if you're not willing to vote for it, unless you're trying to set up a furc lynch down the road. Because, let's face it, he's Furc. HE WILL continue to play like this.
GhostWriter wrote:My lack of placing a vote is due to the fact that both the lead wagons are on two players who are clearly VI's.
And? Bvoight has this right. FIND SOME OTHER FUCKER THEN.
GW wrote:No doubt, most of, if not all, of the scum are on one wagon or the other by now.
Right. So. Who. Is. It. Then?
ThAd wrote:
Good analysis.
I think goanna is a good person to look at tomorrow.
Why not today? Good God ThAdmiral is scummy. Like, srsly.

DP with an original vote. That looks somewhat good. Well, his reasoning is sheeping LF, but he's not following the herd. LOOK, IT MAKES SENSE IN MY HEAD OK?

gonnano keeping his options open I see.

Good Lowell point. Could it be that he's finally changed his playstyle? Please God.

I should probably note again at this point I don't think RQS is scummy per se, though I have seen scum do it. Seems to me when scum do it, it comes from a 'trying too hard to look town' place rather than a scum benefits from it place. RVS leads to wagons based on theory disagreements too- half the players say 'X is scummy, or scummy enough for an opening vote' and half the players say 'Hey what you talkin bout scum, that isn't even slightly scummy.'

Scott the MFY makes a good point re: jmj. Looks active lurky (J, not S).

Thing is, I think Pappums is a pretty big VI himself. At least, judging by his posts so far and txtmafia.

Oh Lord, PGO softclaim from PI.
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Post Post #1551 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:38 am

Post by ThAdmiral »

Furcolow wrote:I'm REALLY glad to see you and DDD, considering the amount of flack I have been receiving. Even if you all decide on me, I know that my win condition will be achieved.
Are you implying that you are town, and that you somehow
know
both vpbaltar and ddd are town? Or is it that your win condition requires vpbaltar and ddd to be achieved???
VP Baltar wrote:What's the current game state? Any confirmed townies I should know about? Any confirmed scum I should know about?
VV
ThAdmiral wrote:
The Fonz wrote:OK, could someone fill me in on the current issues, summaries of the cases behind the leading wagons etc? I don't want to be essentially inactive for what will probably be close to a week before I get caught up entirely.
Furc wagon - he keeps lying about shit basically
Dp wagon - Furc was about to be lynched and lmp pointed this out:
LynchMePls wrote:
DavidParker wrote:Furc, you suck. You had this lynch coming. Stop your all caps/rage as if it's town's fault/mistake (if you are town), it's your own bloody fault for this mess.
"Yes you're a mislynch, and I recognize that, but it's your own fault, so you can't complain."

DP is scum.

Unvote
Vote: DP


People should seriously switch here. DP is obviously scum. I mean seriously, look at the language here. "you had this lynch coming". Wow.
Smarg wagon - ok this isn't really a wagon per se, but it could/should be!
The reason for it is in two parts Part One: where I look at the bunny wagon that lead to his lynch because of a slip-that-wasn't-actually-a-slip, and Part Two: where I iso smarg and decide that out of the potential scum candidates she is the best bet.
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Post Post #1552 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:40 am

Post by Amrun »

Fonz, keep pushing through. I replaced in, too. You can do it.
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Post Post #1553 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:17 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

You did have less pages to read though...
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Post Post #1554 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:42 pm

Post by Amrun »

Yes. I'm just trying to encourage our replacements.
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Post Post #1555 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Post by EGL »

I'd encourage DP votes. I haven't seen any new developments reading back to catch up that make him look good. I disagree with (bvoight's? The guy with the mouse picture) defense of DP. It smells of WIFOM to me.
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Post Post #1556 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:45 pm

Post by EGL »

Also noticed a couple people buddying to The Fonz. And I think Furc blew the Sathoris PM thing out of proportion as long as it wasn't game related, but we have our instructions from the mod since Sotty made a post about it.
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Post Post #1557 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:27 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

By March 11, 12:00 AM EST, I will make a post in this game I can be proud of. One that will do my people proud.

This I swear, or I will seek out Glork to replace me and change my avatar to the most messed up, but allowable, avatar this game thread can come up with for the rest of my time on Mafiascum.net. I will change the avatar of all hydras and alts I am in accordingly.
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Post Post #1558 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:40 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Read thirty pages, made me wonder why I joined another large game; will read another thirty tomorrow.

VPB, I have found scum in the first thirty pages; I expect you to come up with the same person and reason or I will have to assume you are their scum partner. No pressure.
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Post Post #1559 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:11 pm

Post by Furcolow »

First off, Amrun, you space a pretty poor post out to where it looks bigger. That is probably null, but could you refrain from doing that in the future? Thanks. You also said, and I quote:
though I'd rather see what happens to Furc at night.

So, I'll ask you
amrun
um... if you were town, why would you be worried... no, let me reword this
if you were town, and you wanted me out of the game for whatever reason (i.e. policy lynch, "you're scum", etc.) why the fuck would you not just push my lynch instead of being worried what happens to me in the night?

Even if you consider me "vig-bait", why not just policy lynch me? If I'm just "bad at town" isn't it better to keep someone who is bad at town than someone who is scum? I personally feel like I am a good scumhunter, and good at defending people who are newb and townie, which I don't feel like you are. I find you to be newb nervous scum. Pardon the French.

Part of me likes part of smarg's #1541, but I dislike the information about how scum would be imagining things in that situation. Why are you in that mindset, smarg? Otherwise, you helped my read of you a little up until the point you claimed townie, but I shouldn't be hypocritical about claiming.

EGL, I doubt you're going to get modkilled for inactivity, and it's nice to see you're here and all, but we don't want excuses

anyone else reading 1544-1546 as scum playfighting? Maybe it's just a gender bias
gonnano wrote:Well, I guess I was too late to remind everyone that the PI/Amrun slot is still scummy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: smarg

Because smarg is the only person that seems scummy to me who also has a reasonable chance of being lynched today.
Well, no, Gonnano reads it the same way
possibly gonnano is in a different faction than smarg/Amrun, due to their shit reasoning?

fonz, your "furc will continue to play like this" reads as something you don't consider true to me

I will tell you why
1) you spend your time going over a tell I made
2) then into how I can fix my VI play
3) if I was worthless you wouldnt have spent 60-70% of your post on me, if I'm such a VI,
why is my name in your mouth?


The point of the matter is that, regardless of what you all think, it is better to be talked about negatively than not talked about at all.

The "survival yet giving up" reads as town to me when people do that. It is more of a town reaction to be generally hurt over a game to the point where you want to quit or be tactically modkilled, for instance. I wouldn't EVER do the latter, but I've seen it.
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Post Post #1560 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:12 pm

Post by smargaret »

Furc, while I'm glad that you think I'm more town than you used to, you completely misinterpreted my post.

1. At no point did I claim vt. Saying I'm town != saying I'm vt. I claimed an alignment, not a role.

2. I don't see the "scum imagining things." If I had said "Scum are concerned with survival more often than town. Furc seems overly concerned with his own survival - note the numerous fakeclaims designed to keep vig's away. FOS: Furc" - would that be the same scum imagining things? Because it's the same argument: "Scum have to do more than stay alive. They have to power role hunt. Steph is power role hunting. Even though Steph is posting fluff in the game, that doesn't stop him from posting content in the QT."
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Post Post #1561 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:08 pm

Post by EGL »

Furc how can you guarantee the scum have fake claims?
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Post Post #1562 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:37 am

Post by Furcolow »

Glad you can get so immersed in viewing it from the scumside, smarg. Why would you be concerned with power role hunting? Where has Steph done that? I also read it as a VT claim. That's how it felt like, and it felt fake regardless of whether or not you were claiming VT or "town". My problems still stand; you didn't address them properly.

EGL, when do they NOT on mafiascum?
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Post Post #1563 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:05 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Read thirty pages, made me wonder why I joined another large game; will read another thirty tomorrow.

VPB, I have found scum in the first thirty pages; I expect you to come up with the same person and reason or I will have to assume you are their scum partner. No pressure.
I was actually considering only reading Day 2 and getting the gist of Day 1 with lots of questions. :( You really suggesting I need to read this entire game? Cause I honestly don't have the time for all of that (at least within the next week or two) and I only /inned to do Sotty a big favor.
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Post Post #1564 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:19 am

Post by Furcolow »

You didn't really need to say that, VPB, it's fairly obvious
admitting that to the people who wouldn't pick up on it detracts from you doing it to me
now, care to answer the question I asked you?
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Post Post #1565 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:05 am

Post by VP Baltar »

You were asking me if I had any notable reads? No, I haven't read anything except for all of the stuff that came after I replaced in...and most of that doesn't make sense yet. It's honestly probably going to be until friday or saturday when I get a chance to really sit down and read some stuff.
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Post Post #1566 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:11 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Day 2, vote count 13


DavidParker - 6 -
LynchMePls, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Lowell, EGL, Beasts of the Sea, Nachomamma8
Furcolow - 4 -
Scott Brosius, XScorpion, Stephoscope, Sathoris
gonnano - 2 -
Amrun, bvoigt
Amrun -1 -
Furcolow
smargaret - 2 -
ThAdmiral, gonnano
Stephoscope - 1 -
smargaret

Not voting - 4 -
The Fonz, Feysal, DavidParker, VP Baltar

With
20
alive, it takes
11
to lynch.

Deadline for the end of day two is Tuesday 23rd March @11am CST


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Feysal
have been prodded.
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Post Post #1567 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:36 am

Post by bvoigt »

@smarg: What exactly is the point of claiming town alignment?
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Post Post #1568 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:14 am

Post by The Fonz »

OK, I'm going to
try
to avoid commenting on everything for the sake of catching up faster. to page 15:
Scott Brosius wrote:
bvoigt wrote: Since when are anti-town and scummy the same thing? Some actions make no sense from scum or town, and some actions only make sense from scum.
This. There is a stark difference between someone who isn't helping town (anti-town) and someone who is scummy. Blurring the lines is sloppy scumhunting.
No, no it isn't. Anything antitown is at least somewhat scummy, because there's always the chance the player is hurting the town
because they want to hurt the town
and they think they can get away with it. Of course, with known VIs, the likelihood they're just being themselves makes it much, much less scummy.

Put it this way. If you had a VI who was being less antitown than normal. That'd be a towntell, right?

Also, you need to distinguish between things that are anti-town (ie, harmful to town but less harmful, neutral or even positive for scum) and things that are merely stupid and anti-self. Proposing D1 nolynches, for instance, is not actually antitown, because there's no way it's actually going to lead to a no-lynch happening.

/theory diversion

Don't like PapRat pre-emptively justifying wagoning lots of town.
Gonnano wrote:Hence me counting Furcolow's staggering amount of anti-town statements against him as points toward scumminess.
To me, Furc's actually somewhat less antitown than normal here.

Gonnano's looking really scummy. He's gone for a lone wagon on a VI player who's actually playing better than normal, but isn't actually attacking any of the top three wagons. Says 'speed' of PI wagon is scummy, but doesn't point out any particular player on it as looking like a scummy wagon-jumper.

Don't like IPie attacking a good smargaret vote.

Pretty much agree with the GW points being made pages 11-12.

Someone is going to bullshittily try to make out that Furc's wagon hopping is a scumtell here. I guarantee it.

THAd is looking like he's genuinely scumhunting in the last page or two which makes me feel better about him.

Confident, don't care what people think of him Nacho is usually town.

Ewww, Artem votes someone for votehopping. Surprisingly, it isn't Furc. VOTEHOPPING IS NOT (in itself) A SCUMTELL PEOPLE!

IPie's defence of himself is good.

RC V. antitown for pointing out which names sound town and which sound scummy.

DP's inb4bussing post kind of makes me think he's scum, and she's town.
RC wrote:I don't know why I'm bothering. She's not even here defending herself.
Really suspicious-looking justification for jumping a scummy-looking wagon.

Thanks ThAd for supplying the Furc as scum meta.
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Post Post #1569 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:52 am

Post by Furcolow »

uh?
i did too
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Post Post #1570 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:52 am

Post by Furcolow »

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Post Post #1571 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:24 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

VP Baltar wrote:
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Read thirty pages, made me wonder why I joined another large game; will read another thirty tomorrow.

VPB, I have found scum in the first thirty pages; I expect you to come up with the same person and reason or I will have to assume you are their scum partner. No pressure.
I was actually considering only reading Day 2 and getting the gist of Day 1 with lots of questions. :( You really suggesting I need to read this entire game? Cause I honestly don't have the time for all of that (at least within the next week or two) and I only /inned to do Sotty a big favor.
:?

Your required reading for D1 is Pages 19-21.
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Post Post #1572 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:33 am

Post by Furcolow »

Ill go read that myself.
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Post Post #1573 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:40 am

Post by Furcolow »

vote: feysal
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Post Post #1574 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:59 am

Post by Furcolow »

Furcolow wrote:Unvoting in and of itself is deterring the wagon. It was at L-2, now it is at L-3, and he is mudslinging on the 2nd most wagon while jumping on it. How is that not deterring? Every aspect of it SCREAMS deterring/buddying/scumteam to me.
If you don't hold stock in associative tells, that's fine, put me at L-8 or L-7 or whatever. I really don't mind dying in this game whatsoever, as the tone has been majorly snooty, my role is questionable, and I am from a country I don't want to be from.
To pappums rat/Feysal

Pappums Rat wrote:
lol thats quite a stretch there furc. if you will recall, i was voting you first and then i went over to pi after lmp's point and the fact that she put up a wall post after you had said she was sus for not having done so. then your omgus vote on pi made me change my mind back over to you.
and this is his reply. Notice the buddying to LMP?
pappums rat wrote:i can vouch for what lmp is saying, he has said basically the same thing in another game. that has to be one of the weakest reasons for voting someone evar.
More buddying to LMP

I'd like to add Feysal's unwillingness to try to break the game, tunneling, and flaking/lurking the past day to this case. I feel their partners are Amrun/Smarg/LMP.
PoisonIvy wrote:I would just like to point out Furcolow is abstaining from my wagon.
Ive seen him play as town and he is one who bounds ahead regardless of anyones welfare but his own. Ive not seen this side to him and we have only played together as towns. His "early questining stage slash whatever he called it" was not something i have ever seen from him and he is for the moment acting too cautious for my liking. Apart from this, i understand i may be bouncing with the read/slight read i have on him. But i think that in comparision with how ive seen him play as ruthless, that he has a high chance of being anti town. He is scummy and he will after my death continue to drag people down.

Lastly. My reads have been given. If i had to pick scum from my wagon i woulf pick.... Xscorpion (FYI you ask for clarification and nothing you have tried to twist is exactly THAT complex), pappumus rat (late wagon jumper)and beasts of the sea(aggressively pushing other peoples opinions, with no question of who and why people are on my wagon)

My town reads stand.

If anyone would require a role claim do take care to let me know but its nothing that special. Let alone save me.
Kay guise? Thanx for your times!

~Ivy.
Lets look at PI here she admits her read on me is weak, but that I will "drag people down". Who drags people down? Bad town. She is admitting I'm going to be a hindrance to the town, which assumes she KNOWS I'm town.

She then lists scumreads. . . BOTS, pappums rat(feysal, now), and XScorpion. BotS and XScorpion have detailed, elaborate reasons... though the reasoning/logic is bad. pappums rat is listed because he's a "late wagon jumper"? Why would they isolate one late wagon jumper from the others without reasoning? I'll tell you why:
They're scum together, and she ends up backtracking on the read two days later "letting them off the hook" while not ever having voted them or intended to. Notice how she places it in the middle to avoid it being noticed? Yeah. Scumteam.

Here is where she responds to him next:
PoisonIvy wrote:PS. Rat. I was NOT prodded. I was out drinking, sobered up and participated. There is nothing too hard to understand as someone having a social life.
Reads as appealing to a scum partner not to bus, to me. I might be stretching here, admittedly.

and here is where she backtracks
PoisonIvy wrote:
I agree with pappumus rat.


There are a) too many people slipping off the radar and b) there were far too many people on my wagon for them all to be innocent. It gained rapid velocity because of my own speculation on the set up.

Based on pappumus rat was saying i find it perfectly logical why he would bounce votes.

Yet some people here have a very arrogant knack of twisting things...... or..... uh...... i mean "misreading".

Scott anti town = greater potential for being scum? No? No one here is verified town or scum. Until we have such information then i am really missing your point about furcolow. And besides. What is so bad about policy lynches. If someone is scummy by nature having them survive in itself will do the town damage. Damage limitation is in order. I would be voting furcolow now if in fact i was not so sure that Xscorpion is most likely scum.
Add in the fact that Amrun has claimed SILENCER, a scum role that has NO BENEFIT to the town
and I'd call this blatant distancing

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