Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over

[Oso]

I did and you are right. I look at enigma's vote count and read the posts down to the one I responded to that Parama made.

This probably seals my lynch but I didn't see TS's vote. (I know, it is right below Enigma's vote count. But I missed it just the same.)

Until you pointed it out just now, I thought Cecily was at 4 votes when I made that post. I've ISO'd a lot of people this game TS hasn't been one of them.

[Sundy]

Alright, so here is my ranking of suspiciousness for all players, from best to worst. I started with DH's catch of Akira's scum-slip and read through the rest of the game, listing posts that pinged me in one way or another. +1 for good ping, -1 for bad ping, and nothing if I don't know how to interpret the post. While summing this up, I realized it's exactly the opposite of who I suspected before, but whatever. This game is a learning curve for me. Also I agree with DH's interpretation of what's going on post-Cecily lynch, so my values depend on that.

Bub > DemonHybrid > Pianist > Parama > Oso > Riceballtail > Agar = Twisted

Bub: Overall, 4 + 0 = 4. Seems to be thinking on his own, not too willing to jump on wagons, and pressuring in a reasonable manner.

Spoiler:

#11: He agrees w/ Parama's defunct theory that Cecily is trying to start a counter-wagon on Twisted, asks Crazy what he thinks about team. Don't like the logic, but looks to be scum-hunting and trying to put pieces together.
#248: This isn't in the ISO, but Akira says Bub is being scummy (+1 for Bub, unless it's WIFOM).
#18: Bub doesn't buy DH case (+1)
#21: Bub doesn't buy arguments on Oso, but points out his own logic (+1)
#22: Maintaining pressure, logical on Oso (+1)

DemonHybrid: Overall: 4 -1 = 3. Mainly I like him because he was on Akira before anyone else was, and though the Cecily lynch sucked, at least he was explaining his logic throughout. I like the way he's reacted to the pressure on him today.

Spoiler:

#16, Catches a scum-slip from Akira(+1)
#20-#22: Agrees with the Cecily/Akira theory, but his points on Cecily not bad(+1)
#26: Votes Cecily without explanation (-1)
#27: Responds very reasonably to Agar's vote by asking why him? (+1)
#31-38: Mostly agree with DH's posts here and how he's interpreting events (+1)

Pianist: Overall: 1 - 1 = 0. Didn't seem like he was rushing things at first, though some of this credibility disappeared. I like his questioning of Twisted (which no one else seems to have brought up?)

Spoiler:

#19: Pianist wants to see results of a night/lynch before deciding on Cecily (+1)
#21: Pianist votes Cecily without further explanation (-1)

Parama: Overall; 3 - 5 = -2. I get the feeling that he might have decided to bus his partner and get another lynch (Cecily) out of it, but overall I'm just not sure how to interpret his posts.

Spoiler:

#19: Joins DH on the Akira wagon (genuine or bussing?)
#20: Declares Cecily to be scum and Twisted to be town, this eventually leads to Cecily's death (-1)
#21: Says Cecily-scum starting counter-wagon on Twisted (-1)
#22: Gives permission to hammer Akira before he posts (-1)
#23: Explains the Cecily/Akira theory, not a bad explanation (+1)
#32: Votes Cecily without further explanation (-1)
#33: Asks for a claim from Cecily (+1)
#42: Academy Awards post! Arrogance or scum mocking town?
#44: Parama accuses Oso/Sundy, likes DH (+1)
#47: Parama says DH is acting scummy (-1)

Oso: Overall: 2 - 3 = -1. I didn't read his posts at first because I was looking at people on wagon, but then I realized he was the only player on neither wagon, which is not good. Wagon building up on him now, but I want to at least bring up a few other players first.

Spoiler:

#21: Oso looks up Akira's response to see when he'll be back online (+1)
#22: Oso says he's willing to hammer, wants Akira's last thoughts (+1)
#24: Oso says he's blown 3 calls if Cecily flips town, changes avatar (!)
#25: Oso says he can see DH being bad, has not been on either wagon (-1)
#29-30: Really confusing posts, not keeping players straight very well (-1)
#33: Still not keeping players straight, flail flail flail (-1)

Riceballtail: Overall: 0 - 2 = -2. The only good thing about her Cecily accusations is that she previously was suspicious of him, though she didn't give much detail. Not a lot coming from the player.

Spoiler:

#6: Riceballtail says "we agree" that Cecily is scum (-1)
#7: RBT votes me with no explanation (-1)

Twistedspoon: Overall: 2-5 = -3. Do like his first reaction to the Akira scum-slip, don't like his attitude towards Cecily as the lynch was happening. Seems like he might have given away that he had knowledge when talking about the traitor/number of bad guys.

Spoiler:

#21, Asks why Akira gave a scum-slip, this gives me some good vibes because wouldn't a Mafia player want to hide that they were thinking the same way scum did in not identifying scum slips?? (+1)
#23, Votes Akira before figuring out why it was a scum-slip (-1)
#28: Cecily vote: "obvious vote is obvious" (-1)
#29: Twistedspoon: "So are we giving her a chance to claim?" Willing to lynch without explanation, don't like it. (-1)
#30: Scummy post from Twistedspoon about existence of traitor (-1)
#33: Twisted says he doesn't know how many bad guys there are (-1)
#35: Twistedspoon votes Oso, kind of like his argument here (+1)

AGar: Overall: 0 - 3 = -3. Disagree with his case on DH, don't like how he tries to associate scummy players with other players by putting words in their mouth, which he was opposed to in the case of Pianist. I don't like that in Parama either, but at least it provokes reactions that help get reads. I think DH is right in his defense, and that AGar comes off looking worse.

Spoiler:

#15, Agar says TS is buddying (-1)
#20: AGar votes DemonHybrid (-1)
#24: AGar seems to have ignored my point on Maemuku in his continuing to attack DH (-1)

I want to see more posts from RBT. Oso wagon is fine, but don't really want to rush through again without more discussion. I don't feel that Twistedspoon and Agar can both be scum given their interactions, but I think one is bad.

Hopefully we can talk about this more rather than chain-lynching again.

[Sundy]

Btw I already know that these numbers are not scientific and only based on my own read of the last few pages, so no need to point out that my numbers don't

actually

mean anything.

[Twistedspoon]

shrug

I wanted to discuss the possibility of the traitor since It had yet to be discussed.

Apart from Enigma's sample PM i know nothing of the traitor.

[Parama]

your system is terribly skewed if you think all your -1's are scumtells.

#20: Declares Cecily to be scum and Twisted to be town, this eventually leads to Cecily's death (-1)
town can be wrong. I still stand by the theory that Cecily was an antimiller, personally.

#21: Says Cecily-scum starting counter-wagon on Twisted (-1)
He DID try and start a counterwagon, regardless of his flip.

#22: Gives permission to hammer Akira before he posts (-1)
And Akira was scum. So...

#32: Votes Cecily without further explanation (-1)
See: Day 1 posting

#47: Parama says DH is acting scummy (-1)
Because he is?

This looks like faux-scumhunting to me. Your points are not valid, not a single one, as they assume I'm scum (which is false to begin with) to argue that I'm scum.

[Sundy]

I'm not arguing that you're scum, nor have I assumed that you're scum. I'm pointing to the posts that I believe lend insight into your alignment, whether positive or negative. I know it must be very difficult for you to deal with the idea that anyone would question your alignment rather than taking you at face-value, but life's tough.

#20: What is an anti-miller? It's not on the wiki. Do you think Enigma is lying when he says Cecily is a VT, or does your post mean something else?
#21: He justifiably pointed out something suspicious about Twisted's play w/r/t his vote on Akira. Twisted's reaction to Akira (first saying he didn't know why it was a scum-slip, then voting before he understood why it was a scum-slip) is note-worthy. You immediately assumed that this meant he was evil, and did not entertain another possibility. Either a bad read or an ulterior motive.
#22: Regardless, discussion = helpful. Akira's posts while under pressure might have been enlightening. Cecily's lynch shows the danger of rushing.
#32: Your reasons for suspecting Cecily varied in Day 1 (and I thought some were good), but Day 2 wasn't about pressure or information-gathering, and I don't like that rushed play.
#47: Shrug. I agree with DH that he is questioning AGar as to why he picked him out of all the wagoners from Day 2 to attack. I don't think he was attacking you, though I don't know why he shouldn't have.

[Oso]

Quick before work.

I agree with Sundy on Parama although I would have definately put him above Bub, crazy and DH on the town scale.

I know you've blown the call on me but ,eh, trying to convince you of that is probably not going to work.

I think you have most definitely blown the call on both AGar and TS. The main reason I didn't attack (just refuted) the posts Parama, TS and AGar made in regards to me is because I think they stand a decent chance of being town and are simply wrong, but not scum-wrong.

Bub's vote is attack worthy because well, Bub is scum and that by definition mean there is malicious intent behind all of his posts.

Off to do some work. If I remain un-lynched, I should be back in 10-12 hours or tomorrow morning. I have the 12pm-12am on-call shift today so depending on how busy I am, I may not be able to post until tomorrow if I hit the sack right after I'm relieved.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I did and you are right. I look at enigma's vote count and read the posts down to the one I responded to that Parama made.

This probably seals my lynch but I didn't see TS's vote. (I know, it is right below Enigma's vote count. But I missed it just the same.)

Until you pointed it out just now, I thought Cecily was at 4 votes when I made that post. I've ISO'd a lot of people this game TS hasn't been one of them.

Figuring out that Cecily was at L-1 would have been as simple as 4+1=5; 6-5=1. Your excuse doesn't hold water.

Even if you thought that he was at L-2 (which I highly doubt, considering that Twisted's vote was right after the vote count), you didn't try to get people to slow down. The four votes that you admit to seeing were right after each other. Any reasonable player would assume that the lynch was moving very quickly, and yet you didn't do anything to say that the lynch was too quick until Cecily had already been lynched.

[Oso]

Caught a bit of slow down-down and checked in.

..
Even if you thought that he was at L-2 (

which I highly doubt, considering that Twisted's vote was right after the vote count

), you didn't try to get people to slow down. The four votes that you admit to seeing were right after each other.

Any reasonable player would assume that the lynch was moving very quickly, and yet you didn't do anything to say that the lynch was too quick until Cecily had already been lynched.

First bold. Already answered in Post 375 "

..This probably seals my lynch but I didn't see TS's vote. (I know, it is right below Enigma's vote count. But I missed it just the same.)..

" If you think its a lie, then say so, don't use this aside shit EVEN IF....(HIGHLY DOUBT....). You've left yourself an out there on that particular point no matter what what I flip because you have covered both possibilities.

Second bold. Wrong. It is not reasonable to expect that a person is going to be lynched in 3 1/2 hours in anything but a slam dunk LyLo. People get run up to L-2 and L-1 very quickly all the time, but I can say I never played in a game where it all the way to a lynch that quickly at the beginning of the day in anything but the example above: A no-brainer Lylo.

As to why I didn't try to get people to slow down? Again, I didn't think it would go to lynch that quickly. I thought I would have plenty of time after work to get all my ducks in a row and attack those who taking advantage of it. I fully expected to come back and see that the pressure has eased somewhat. What I did not expect was to come back and see a lynch.

@ Sundy. Small point to correct.

You Said:

#24: Oso says he's blown 3 calls if Cecily flips town, changes avatar (!)

I actually said :

See that new avatar of mine? If Cecily actually flips scum, I'll keep it until someone from this game tells me I've learned my lesson. That would make 3 blown calls in 2 days for me. winger, Akira (who I thought was going to flip town despite being willing to hammer him) and now Cecily.

If Cecily had actually been scum, I would have kept that avatar and probably went back to the Newbie forum for a game or two until my bout of the herpdy-derps has passed.

As to the rest of your points on me. I'd disagree on the last 'flail,flail,flail' part but yes to all the plusses and yes to all the minuses. When I get in a hurry (which does happen a lot on weekdays) I do tend to think way faster than I type. Makes for rather confusing posts sometimes. And yes, I can see DH being bad but his probability of being bad is way lower than Bub or crazy in my opinion. We still have an unknown number of scum out there but there is at least one more mafia and the traitor. That's two I'm sure that are still out there so I have no problem just having two serious suspects at the moment.

To answer any doubts about my stance on any of the players at the moment:

Prob town: AGar, Parama, TS

Scum: Bub, crazypianist

Undetermined: DH, Sundy, RBT but DH is riding the line.

I don't like the way he defended himself earlier today but as I said earlier, he does make a bit of sense. He doesn't however take any responsibility for his being on the wagon, simply points at the play of others that was similar to his own. Bub doesn't take any responsibility nor does TS and crazy hasn't even been in here yet today to say anything.

Only Parama has what I would call an "Oh shit" moment about the Cecily lynch when he answers your point:

#20: Declares Cecily to be scum and Twisted to be town, this eventually leads to Cecily's death (-1)

town can be wrong.

I still stand by the theory that Cecily was an antimiller, personally.

It's a small moment but it is there. That is why he is in top group of my list rather than the middle or bottom groups. That and his play in this game isn't saying 'scum' to me.

TS is up there with AGar and Parama because of his vote of me here. From that I got he thinks I might be scum but his main objection seems to be being mentioned in a post. Normally I'd say that reeks of scum but, in light of the speed in which Cecily was lynched yesterday, seems to me a perfectly normal and understandable survival reaction that a new player of either alignment would have. That said, it looks to me like a normal reaction of someone who really doesn't have a clue as to what's going on at the moment so that makes him town rather than scum in my estimation. Scum would have a clue.

[Twistedspoon]

just realised i don't feel so comfortable with oso on l-1 anymore

Unvote

i'm probably going to get ripped to pieces for this, especially if he flips scum, but...

[crazypianist1116]

Hey everyone I'm alive. Sorry for not posting much. I'll make a substantial post within the next 20 hours or so. As for who I think is scummy, Oso/TS although I want to go back and reread day 3 to verify my suspicions.

I find it a bit funny that Oso's calling me and Bub uber scum when he hasn't voted either of us. Also it's interesting how I get lumped together with Bub without even posting...

[Enigma]

Votecount 3.2

Oso (3) - Parama, Bub Bidderskins, AGar

Sundy (1) - Riceballtail

Not Voting (5) - Oso, DemonHybrid, Sundy, crazypianist1116, TwistedSpoon

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch, 4 to no lynch.
The

deadline

is 11:30pm 21st March GMT+10.30.

[AGar]

just realised i don't feel so comfortable with oso on l-1 anymore

Unvote

i'm probably going to get ripped to pieces for this, especially if he flips scum, but...

Hallo buddy.

[AGar]

I should read

every

post before posting to avoid looking like Chesskid3. Anywhooo

Hey everyone I'm alive. Sorry for not posting much. I'll make a substantial post within the next 20 hours or so. As for who I think is scummy, Oso/TS although I want to go back and reread day 3 to verify my suspicions.

I find it a bit funny that Oso's calling me and Bub uber scum when he hasn't voted either of us. Also it's interesting how I get lumped together with Bub without even posting...

Or this guy.

I'm backing off my DH read. In retrospect, now that the tunnel's gone, DH's responses seem townish.

Oso is scum.
With CP or TS.

That's about all we need to know.

[Oso]

..
I find it a bit funny that Oso's calling me and Bub uber scum when

he hasn't voted either of us

. Also it's interesting how I get lumped together with Bub without even posting...

Way I play pretty much. I generally don't vote if I haven't already, or change a vote, when I'm under pressure.

@TS, thank you. BTW, you are in no danger from my flip if I get lynched today.

@AGar, you are absolutely, certifiably 33.3% right with your last post:

Oso is scum.
With

CP

or TS.

[Riceballtail]

Better post coming later; most likely moving my vote.

[Twistedspoon]

i'm probably going to get ripped to pieces for this, especially if he flips scum, but...

hallo buddy.

thought so.

but I don't feel safe with an Oso lynch.
My gut is appealing for an Agar one though.

[Twistedspoon]

If oso flips town then I'm going to be looking at Agar day 3

[Parama]

Sudden realization:

just realised i don't feel so comfortable with oso on l-1 anymore

Unvote

i'm probably going to get ripped to pieces for this, especially if he flips scum, but...

If oso flips town then I'm going to be looking at Agar day 3

Twisted

knows

Oso won't flip scum, because Twisted's the mafia traitor.
And he wants to chain lynches to ensure a scum victory. Since he knows Oso is town, the second statement is there so he can push AGar tomorrow for a "valid" reason.

unvote, vote: Twistedspoon

let's get this gravy train rollin'

[Twistedspoon]

I don't know Oso won't flip scum. he might. I just unvoted because I didn't believe it was sensible having him at L-1 at this moment in time.

I have tried to prevent us repeating the mistake that got cecily lynched. And it looks like you're about to do it again.
Anyways, If i'm the mafia traitor why would I have lynched akira? I already had an excuse not to vote him, but I did anyways becasue I thought him to be scum.

[Parama]

See: Bussing

<_<

[Twistedspoon]

shrug

could i not have bussed without voting?

[Sundy]

I am totally down for a twisted wagon.

VOTE: Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

Curse my Oso voting worries.

If Oso turns out to be scum I'll cry myself to sleep

[DemonHybrid]

If Oso is town, look at AGar?

If Oso is scum, you'll cry yourself to sleep?

Vote: Twistedspoon