[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[drmyshottyizsik]

I once won a vengeful in like 10 hours...

[Herodotus]

fairly simple setup

11 town PR's out of 27 players

2 scumgroups

All mafia are PR's

I think you mean "normal" setup, which it is.

I'm not good with large setups, but I'd remove some PR's from both town and mafia. Optionally, give each mafia group a watcher or tracker respectively for fakeclaiming purposes.



@Hoopla: I assume the scum win if they outnumber the surviving BP townies, right? In fact, an intact scumteam should be given the win against 2 BP's and the IC, since they can hypothetically wait through 100d1000 NoLynch/NoKill cycles before shooting the IC (if the IC hasn't already used their PGO ability.)

[Hoopla]

@Gandalf:

There is plenty of opportunity for deeper play and analysis of the possibilities, but the strategy/consequences I talked about are pretty straightforward. There are plenty of people who are competent enough to get it - I refuse to cater for those incapable or unwilling to invest thought into a game.

~~

@Herodotus:

Well yes, that's the reason for the 50% no-lynch rule. To give scum an extra opportunity to eliminate the BP's, by potentially keeping their scumteam intact with 2 or 3 players. A 2 Goon/VT/BP endgame forces a no-lynch --> VT kill --> BP lynch (with 2 goons voting out the last town player), so in this situation or situations where Mafia has 50% of the town and outnumber the BP's, mafia will win.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok so I have done a lot of thinking about games I have played and I came up with this! It's not finished but I would really like you guys's input on it.

Power Roles are US

Town

1 Role cop jail keeper
2 Masons
2 Doctors
1 One-shot Vig
2 Lovers
5 Townies

3rd Party

1 One Bullet Proof, Unjailkeepable, Investigation Immune, Janitorial Serial Killer

Mafia

1 Janitor
1 Back Up Janitor
1 Bullet Proof RoleBlocker

All Janitorial Roles' targets alinement's flip.

Yes there are a lot of confirmables, but with two NKs mass claiming day one is dumb, and after night one, since there are two Janitor kills that happen, a mass claim is pointless because the mafia and SK can just claim using the roles they killed the night before. If the SK is targeted by the role cop then the role cop will get back the role of one of the SK's targets.

[Hoopla]

In fact, an intact scumteam should be given the win against 2 BP's and the IC, since they can hypothetically wait through 100d1000 NoLynch/NoKill cycles before shooting the IC (if the IC hasn't already used their PGO ability.)

As for this, I think I'd follow normal rules of a cycle of 2 No-Lynches and 2 No-Kills equals a draw, so scum would have to take a potshot on the IC-PGO on one night or take a draw.

[Herodotus]

@Hoopla: I didn't know that was a standard rule.
Did you account for the fact that the mafia teams will be trying to avoid cross-killing and that this will make it harder to get rid of them?

@drmyshottyizsik: You post a new setup several times each week. If people don't feel like discussing one of your proposals, you can't force them to.

And what's with this massive push for Janitors?

They are now a crutch to compensate for design flaws.

[Andrius]

And what's with this massive push for Janitors?

They are now a crutch to compensate for design flaws.

Evidentially.
I agree with you though.

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: I didn't know that was a standard rule.
Did you account for the fact that the mafia teams will be trying to avoid cross-killing and that this will make it harder to get rid of them?

It's the most common solution to break the potentially ongoing back-and-forth between no-lynch/no-kill cycles.

I did - it's hard to predict exactly how scumteams will play it. They could in theory discuss and sync their kills at night, but such discussion will leave clues to the other team as to who is likely/not likely mafia. It is always important from a scum-perspective to maintain the dominant upperhand as the other team needs to die at some point, and I think if scum don't have a found BP to target, they won't try and kill the same player which increases the chance of a crosskill. A scum killed at night could sever altruistic tendencies between the two teams. I'd expect if scum strongly thought someone else was on the other team, they'd take a shot at them.

You also have to remember, in order to orchestrate lynches on town players, they need to surrender some of their protection, ie; narrowing the pool of possible places they could be by declaring someone town, and then also by going onto that wagon is a strong clue. If anything, I think scum will be wary of this and their numbers won't give them much influence during the day.

[Tragedy]

Kingdom of Churches

1 Corrupted King
1 Loyal Guard
1 Holy Leader

1 Serial Killer

1 Beloved Princess
1 Guard
1 Vengeful Townie
1 Prince
1 Doctor
2 Holy Priests
7 Villagers

Notes

-Corrupted King resembles the Godfather, however. Corrupted King can order his Loyal guard to jailkeep or kill someone during the Night Phase, or do it himself. If he is lynched, a Prince will become the new Corrupted King. S/he, the Loyal Guard and the Holy Leader may speak with each other during the Night as well. If there is no Corrupted King, the Town automatically wins.
-Loyal Guard knows whom the King and the Holy Worshipers (Cultists) are. S/he may talk to the King and the Holy Leader during the Night Phase. Loyal Guard protects the King from being killed during the night, but s/he may do the King's action instead.
-Holy Leader can recruit/brainwash people into obeying the king. The Holy Worshipers may not speak with each other during the night, but they know whom the others are.
-Serial Killer has to murder everyone and stay alive.
-Beloved Princess is quite important. If she dies during the Night Phase, instead, her Guard will take her place. Unless the Guard is already dead, s/he will be killed, and the next day will not be able to start since there will be a ceremony upon her death. S/he does not know whom his/her guard is.
-Guard can protect the Beloved Princess during the Night Phase, as s/he knows whom s/he is.
-When the Vengeful Townie is lynched, s/he may suicide with somebody else with him/her.
-Prince starts out as a town. However, when the Corrupted King is lynched, s/he may become the New Corrupted King in replacement, earning all of his/her abilities.
-Doctor is SANE, and could protect people during the night.
-The Holy Priest may speak with the other. They cannot be recruited into the 'Holy Orders'.
-Villagers are plain Townies.
-

NIGHT START

[Chronopie]

So a townie that becomes scum on Scum GF death...

[chkflip]

Mayhem, Murder, Mafia

MAFIA

2 Goon

OTHERS

1 Odd-Night Serial Kiler

TOWN

1 Random Doctor
1 Back-up Doctor (not told)
1 Doublevote (also not told, and held secret until lynch)
7 Vanillas

The SK is not forced to use his NK on odd-nights, that's just the only time it's available to them. Making the mafia even-night NK doesn't feel like it'd even anything out, nor do I think 2 NK's on odd-nights is that detrimental to town. Let's assume town sucks and only lynches town AND mafia/SK pwn and only kill town.

10:2:1 D1
8:2:1 D2
5:2:1 D3
3:2:1 D4 LYLO

Possibility for upwards of four mislynches sounds about right, doesn't it?

Also, to clarify, lynch would be achieved a vote early (to protect the doublevoter)

[Tragedy]

So a townie that becomes scum on Scum GF death...

But the town wins if both/Or 1 'Godfather' is lynched.
Best way to win.

N1: 14 : 1 : 3
D1: 12 : 1 : 4

Basically, this has to happen.

[lewarcher82]

Mayhem, Murder, Mafia

MAFIA

2 Goon

OTHERS

1 Odd-Night Serial Kiler

TOWN

1 Random Doctor
1 Back-up Doctor (not told)
1 Doublevote (also not told, and held secret until lynch)
7 Vanillas

The SK is not forced to use his NK on odd-nights, that's just the only time it's available to them. Making the mafia even-night NK doesn't feel like it'd even anything out, nor do I think 2 NK's on odd-nights is that detrimental to town. Let's assume town sucks and only lynches town AND mafia/SK pwn and only kill town.

10:2:1 D1
8:2:1 D2
5:2:1 D3
3:2:1 D4 LYLO

Possibility for upwards of four mislynches sounds about right, doesn't it?

Also, to clarify, lynch would be achieved a vote early (to protect the doublevoter)

Projection is unaccurate. Depends a lot on when DV dies. I am thinking DV should be told about his role... also: can SK and scum joint? Is SK NK-immune?

[Olinea]

Might be imbalanced, not sure. I'd like opinions on this.

Operating Room

MAFIA

2

Mafia Goons

1

Mafia Roleblocker

TOWN

3

Doctors

6

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors target the same person, that person dies.

[Mr. Flay]

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors target the same person, that person dies.

What if one of said Docs is RBed?

Otherwise, I got nothing. I feel like it's been done before...

[Ythan]

If the doctor is blocked I would assume his action does not affect the target.

[Empking]

8p Lovers

3 Mafia Lovers

5 Townies

Nightless

[chesskid3]

Two sweet ideas.
Minesweeper mafia: 13p. 1 town traitor, 1 scum executioner, 1 goon. 9vt 1pgo

And 12p mountainous 9/3 with players divided into 3 groups of 4 people, and guaranteed exactly 1 scum in each group.

[gandalf5166]

executioner?

[Crazy]

8p Lovers

3 Mafia Lovers

5 Townies

Nightless

Chance of scum win:

5/8 * 4/7
20/56 = 35.7%

:X

Way too town-favored, I think.

[Tragedy]

Lover's Mayhem

2 Mafias

8 Town Lovers

Silly Mafias can't be lovers, as a Nightless game.
Mwahehehe. This would most likely favor Mafias if they can lover-death-dodge, while Town are the silly mafia catchers.

[Empking]

8p Lovers

3 Mafia Lovers

5 Townies

Nightless

Chance of scum win:

5/8 * 4/7
20/56 = 35.7%

:X

Way too town-favored, I think.

6p Nightless has a 12/30 chance of victory. I think scum has good odds at winning that game.

[Crazy]

6p Lovers had a 40% chance of

town

winning. 8p Lovers has about a 65% chance of town winning. Meaning the town will win more often than not if they just random lynch all the time.

[Crazy]

What about this?

8p Lovers

2 Mafia Lovers
1 Mafia Goon

5 Townies

Nightless

Eh, nevermind. Way too scum-favored.

[Tragedy]

It's not a lovers game when Townies aren't lovers.