Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[Kise]

If others see the reward of clearing a few lovers, then yes we can do it. I may be alone with finding Grey to be scum, but I have a link for you. If Esp & PO are scum, I doubt theyre grouped with Ash & Llama due to their wagonhopping, BUT I do think Purp & Esp would be partners with Grey & Anti due to Grey building counterwagons and setting up others for plausible reasons as to why he will be voting them next. If Ash & Llama are scum, as I said, we can eliminate a few lovers from being most likely partners due to horrible wagon hopping and ignorance from both Ash & Llama - Llama seems selective with what he has been commenting on, lately. If Grey & Anti are scum (and I do not see them as a lynch today), then we really get nothing to work with because that does not say much about who they are partnered with, so theres not as big a reward for lynching them.

I feel that by using PoE, if Ash & Llama flipped scum today then the werewolf field is narrowed down a helluva lot more. Between Ash, Llama, & Grey, they have not done much in the way of mentioning each other other than an occasional "I want to hear more from you" or "such and such are town." Realistically, Reck? All it takes is influence and popularity to attract people into voting out Ash. What I dont want is to be lynched, flip town obviously I will say, and then players go right back over to Esp & Purp. Reason being? I dont (currently) view them as scum any more - my reason to begin with was independent of other players, so there was no connection I drew from others until Grey came along with the counterwagons. Why I now view them as town is due to Ash's continued misrepping of myself, his contradicting "opinions" towards both PO and myself, his neglect to acknowledge I suspected him nearly a week before he "suspected" myself (a.k.a. lying), and also a personal assumption that Ash would not have tried to take a shit all over Purp's replies to me if the two of them were partners.

There is no TL;DR version so plz soak all that up. If Ash flips werewolf, its pretty damn safe to say that those of us who his pair have been shitting on and voting are as close to confirmed town as you can have - PO & Esp, Trag & the replacement, and likely Emp's pairing as well. I say Emp as well because Ash was setting up an Emp vote when he first came in (which is when he instead decided to wagon the popular lynchee), and also I remember thinking that Llama had misrepped Emp and I blindly took Llama's word instead of researching myself. To me, that would point to Emp being town post-werewolf flippage of Ash.

[Kise]

More important than gaining votes on Ash though, Reck, I really do want people to see him as scum instead of thinking I'm dragging them into finding him scummy. The fact of the matter is that he has misrepped my suspicion of him as, "oh you only saying I'm scum cus I said it to you first." Not true. I've pulled out the quotes and even dated the areas proving exactly who suspected who first. Ash has not acknowledged this fact, and his ignorance tells me he is hoping people take his word for it instead of manning up and admitting I suspected him first. Sounds childish, but that's reality.

[Tragedy]

So basically, you guys are going to

Stall

the fucking wagon.
Real Noted.

[Kise]

Not stall, just hit the brakes to a screeching halt and switch directions. Look, I was as die-hard as perhaps you are right now towards PO, but I will admit again that I found Esp to be independently scummy. I find Ash to be scummy, but doubt Esp would have been bussed by him and Llama. I find Ash's lying to be more indicative of scum than Esp's page 2 thingamajig.

[xRECKONERx]

Kise, let me ask you something: what motivation would GreyICE have for

not

going along with the quicklynch plan if he's scum?

[Nero Cain]

I seriously don't want this lynch to happen.

Kise seems town to me.

^^^^^^^

Do you or anyone else for that matter feel the back and forth between PO/Esp could be distancing?

I don't know how you'd prove that.
Kise's attacks on PO/Esp have no reason to not be taken as genuine at this point.

Why are you trying to scumhunt your own lover?
-_-

I'm not!!!

Vezo/Mist was clearly bussin' BS/KCD but there was no way to "prove" that either.

Kise and PO have been attacking each other for like 2 days now. I'm just saying if one pair were to flip werewolf I'm not going to rule out the possibility of distancing.

[Kise]

For one, uncertainty as to whether he and his buddies are considered top town reads, ergo whether they would be possible lynchees. For two, he could play the "I told you so" card if there is an abundance of mislynches behind that.

Keep in mind that since we're in town vs. wolves currently, the wolves don't have to worry about eliminating the mafia. Grey was so sure of himself when lynching these last four days, but now that there's only werewolves left, he wants to go the route of being careful with his vote all of a sudden. I expect he wants to play the "ITYS" angle, as hinted by quotes such as "I'm going after you next, especially if she flips town." Then, labeling Tragedy & Mari as town giving up hints that he is aware of what will happen post flip, so he's taking the necessary steps to ensure his hands are not dirty by the time endgame approaches.

[Tragedy]

I would declare that it

would

possibly get us some

results

if we got to ironically stick with

ONE

person at a time..
So basically, it's about Espeonage, then Ash, then Kise.

@Llamarble : You only mentioned GreyICE & Anti looked

TOWN

for you. Takes forever for you to read Reck and GreyICE, but we still need to be convincedz0rs..

[Kise]

Nero lol... you think I would throw Esp under the bus on day 1? Page 2/3/whatever? When there was still a chance for me to get labeled as the other scum early on? That would have ended my team's chances right there if I successfully got Esp lynched day 1. People would not have ruled out me being on the other scumteam. Strategically speaking, I would never do that as scum, especially considering I was the ONLY person to point fingers at Esp. I could see if Esp had cases against him that I could slip onto, but I'm not going to provide an original case when no one else is looking at my buddy.

We've hydra'd as scum twice, though in reasonably VI-filled games. You know I don't care to bus on day 1 as much as I do set up cases against townies. I don't even defend on day 1 as scum.

Now please tell me you've read the recent arguments in full.

P-edit:
Trag, we could actually clear Esp too if Ash flips werewolf. The bigger picture I'm alluding to is that we could possibly put 8 of us in a pool of players that are least likely to be wolves in the event Ash flips wolf. You put us in that pool and we're looking at Grey next. And although I feel that would be game after his team's lynch, the last teams left would be dram/PZ & Nero/Reck, versus 8 other players that Ash/Llama (pending wolf flip) practically shitted on vehemently.

In the same right, I would say this is what makes it clear that Esp/PO are not buddies with me. There's a certain level of genuine intensity that makes it clear when players are or are not partnered.

[xRECKONERx]

If Esp is scum, Kise is not.

[Kise]

If Ash is scum, Esp, Kise, Trag, Emp and our lovers are not [likely] scum.

[GreyICE]

If Esp is scum, Kise is not.

I'll agree to this.

[xRECKONERx]

So if Ash is scum, then which of {me/Nero, dram/Xalxe} is more likely to be the other scumteam.

[Kise]

Grey/Antihero.

[GreyICE]

You mean if we lynch PO and she flips scum, and then somehow get through PZ/Tragedy, Hiraki/EmpTyger, and Llamarble, and we're down to Me&Anti, Kise, you, and Dram? Fuck man, at that point I'd hammer myself and leave the fun of THAT LyLo up to you.

[Nero Cain]

Nero lol... you think I would throw Esp under the bus on day 1? Page 2/3/whatever? When there was still a chance for me to get labeled as the other scum early on? That would have ended my team's chances right there if I successfully got Esp lynched day 1. People would not have ruled out me being on the other scumteam. Strategically speaking, I would never do that as scum, especially considering I was the ONLY person to point fingers at Esp. I could see if Esp had cases against him that I could slip onto, but I'm not going to provide an original case when no one else is looking at my buddy.

Meh I guess you're right.

Now please tell me you've read the recent arguments in full.

I have.

vote:ESP

[dramonic]

@Emp: I think the whole "Fate wouldnt be a cruel bitch" to be null and frankly doubt that Reck really believes that at all. Most likely he didn't want to say "...meta?", because we all know that's what it is.

Though I will smack him for leaving the site. Many times.
Anyways.

@Kise's new chainlynch plan: What the hell is this lining lynches BS? Ashblade has not shat on me, reck or Grey, that's true, however feel free to try and disprove me, but apart from Antihero, I don't think

anyone's

really shat on us past day 1.

you're being quite selective in the information you're using my moogly friend.
If Ash flips werewolf, you are in no way close to being in the townier people.

Doubt that will happen though.
Esp still needs rope.

[Kise]

It shouldn't come down to you guys, dram. Ash/Llama, then Grey/Anti and it's GG.

Nero, I'm not sure you follow me. The arguments I'm referring to are against Ash, not Esp. Ash is the one lying about things. Esp is at least innocent from blatantly lying like Ash is.

[xRECKONERx]

If Ash is scum, Esp, Kise, Trag, Emp and our lovers are not [likely] scum.

You mean if we lynch PO and she flips scum, and then somehow get through PZ/Tragedy, Hiraki/EmpTyger, and Llamarble, and we're down to Me&Anti, Kise, you, and Dram? Fuck man, at that point I'd hammer myself and leave the fun of THAT LyLo up to you.

wat

[GreyICE]

It shouldn't come down to you guys, dram. Ash/Llama, then Grey/Anti and it's GG.

Nero, I'm not sure you follow me. The arguments I'm referring to are against Ash, not Esp. Ash is the one lying about things. Esp is at least innocent from blatantly lying like Ash is.

Both are town.

You are bad at this.

Unvote

Vote: Kise

I am in favor of this lynch.

[xRECKONERx]

Both are town.

You are bad at this.

THESE
AREN'T
REASONS

FUCKING CHRIST

UNVOTE; VOTE: GREYICE

[GreyICE]

I'VE PRESENTED MY FUCKING REASONS.

HE TUNNELED YOU ON DAY 1.

HE LURKED DAYS 2-4.

NOW THE OTHER SCUM TEAM IS GONE AND HE'S ALL LIKE "I'M CAPTAIN PRO FUCKING TOWN."

WELL FUCK THAT SHIT. HE AIN'T FUCKING TOWN. PO WASN'T GETTING LYNCHED ON DAY 1, IT'S FINE FUCKING DISTANCING, AND NOW HE WANTS TO LYNCH SOMEONE NOT PO? HE'S FLAILING LIKE FUCK, AND IF YOU'RE TOO DUMBSHIT TO REALIZE THAT, THEN FUCKING GO AHEAD AND LYNCH ME.

[Antihero]

That's funny, it actually seems like town-Zito to me.

Then again, the first game I was in I mislynched him...

Should I even bother? Or am I just going to be dismissed and told I'm stupid?

Both are town.

You are bad at this.

THESE
AREN'T
REASONS

FUCKING CHRIST

UNVOTE; VOTE: GREYICE

You know, it's already bad enough that you're protecting werewolves, but if you get us lynched, I'm going to be a little pissed this time.

[GreyICE]

When did I say you're stupid? You're not.

FUCKING RECKONER IS A MORON FUCKING FUCK VEZOK IS TOWN HERP DERP

You're fine.

[Kise]

Here's a neat timeline for you all.

Not much to add although Kise is making me seriously

nervous

as of late.

Don't get OMGUSy on me just yet. I may have actually misjudged you with Grey & PO's recent interactions coming out of the blue.

You didn't even put us on the table until I said I was uncomfortable with you. Seriously though this is almost obvious that one of your groups are scum, and your reactions are making it look like it's you.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2868511

Can you bulletpoint what's wrong with Kise then?

Tunnel hyperdrive on PO until he couldn't handle it anymore.
Added Grey to the list when he disagreed with the excess tunneling.

Added me when I didn't like the tunneling either

, and is now voting me instead of the person he thought was SO SURE, that PO and Esp would flip scum.

That last bolded line shows Ash's persistent denial in an attempt to make it look like I suspected him afterwards. He's listed a jumbled amount of reasons to hinder my credibility as well as twist my actual views. Where o where did I say I you were scum for disagreeing with my tunneling, Ash? This post should clearly show Ash for the misrepresenting, lying scumbag he is.

Please give a simple yes or no: Does anyone else see Ash as misrepping/lying?