Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[Ashblade]

Okay, Reck is even more almost definitely town, for among other reasons saying he didn't think Mariy/PO were scum together, not mentioning it for awhile, and then continuing to have that read in mind ages later even after the mafia are gone. He's trying to figure out what's going on. Nero hasn't been as active, but I don't find him scummy.

Oh, and *facepalm* I mean, dude. I know we're partners but this was just fail.

[Ashblade]

Actually, I take back what I said about my PoE because my brain isn't processing who might be connected with Kise at the moment. I'll need to work on it later.

[LlamaFluff]

@the quote about tragedy: I was referring to mafia as a general name for the scum. Specific reference would be stupid in this context, considering even in the most stupid of scenario I can't see Tragedy proposing a suicide when she's the last member of her team.

No you werent, you specifically said "If Tragedy was mafia". You never use mafia as a general term throughout the entire game. Every time its mentioned it refers to a specific faction. When you are using a term to cover all anti-town, you use the word "scum". Unless you are attempting to argue that the one time in the entire game you deviate from previous usage of a word occured in the one post where a scumslip is entirely possible, you didnt bring up her being wolf. I dont buy that the one time in 32 posts that you decide to change use of a word happened, and that more likely you ignored her being wolf because you are wolf with non-tragedy.

Also you say it again here, you cant see her proposing suicide as last member of the team, which means specifically mafia (not wolf), and you are ignoring any chance of her flipping wolf.

@voting for partners of reads: I think it's quite a stretch to say I was voting q21's partner (i think?) to muddle votecount analysis. I don't do VC analysis for one thing, and frankly I'm just voting the larger wagon in the pair.

I do VC analysis when the situation calls for it. This one needs a major pair flip and it will be very useful. Jumping on lover 1 for what lover 2 did will do nothing but rush the game and make it harder to understand from a replacements standpoint (as I am finding out) since its hard to keep track of why the votes are where they are.

[Purple Orange]

It actually makes it EASIER to analyze things when people's partners are voted for. Trust me on this. :p Look at the person voted for as the "representative" of the team as a whole. People usually note which of the lovers they see as scummier, when they vote, especially if they happen to think it's the one other than the one they voted for. The only time I get confused when doing votecounts of this thread is when I look at Day 1, and there's people who are voting for the SAME LOVERTEAM, but split up between the two halves of it. *headache headache death doom*

[LlamaFluff]

Even if you are going to disagre with me on that, what do you think about the case on dram?

[xRECKONERx]

Anyone else see dram completely ignoring the fact that Tragedy can be wolf here? He brings up the scenario where Tragedy is town, and the scenario where Tragedy is mafia. The possibility of Tragedy-wolf is myseteriously missing though. Note that he has got past the "slip" of tragedy at this point so that is discounted.

lol this

You dont go lynching null reads to get the game moving.

Actually, you do. Dram wasn't the only one who wanted to lynch vezok just to "get the game moving".

Today we see dram trying to line up a PO/Esp and then Tragedy/Mary lynch very early on in a no so consipicous manner, saying that neither group can live to the endgame. Since then... nothing. Dram has never presented a case on people, and spent most of his time buddying up to people and setting up lynches, just exploiting the town read that Reck has jammed town everyones throats for him.

YES, AND KISE DID THE SAME FUCKING THING, AND SO HAS EVERYONE ELSE
You can't just call out ONE FUCKING PERSON for being scummy on one thing when LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT LINING UP LYNCHES.

Seriously, someone point me to a strong case dram has made this game.

Seriously, someone point to a part of Llama's case that isn't just pomp and circumstance.

There is none. However there are plenty of attempts to set up lynches (he already got the vezok one, and is moved on to Esp/PO). There also is the quote that looks like a wolf slip to me.

First off, it's there ARE none.
Second off, the lynch thing... Jesus, just look above at what I said.
Third off, that quote IS NOT A WOLF SLIP BECAUSE EVERYONE REFERS TO BAD GUYS AS 'SCUM' OR 'MAFIA'. Welcome to the land of I READ TOO FUCKING MUCH INTO SHIT, population LLAMAFLUFF.

Wrath of reck in 3... 2... 1...

See, then you throw this in at the very end as if it's going to make my rebuttal to your bullshit any less effective. I know you tried to make me look like "Oh, he's just delusional and following dram to the ground" but if dram is town this game

I will literally fly to wherever you are and suck your balls

.


Now, what I see here is that Llama comes screeching in out of left field and tries to start a completely new case on dramonic when he has zero votes so far. The town motivation for doing that is... well, he's retarded, because his case is shit. However, because his case is shit, I'm forced to look at what the potential scum motivation here is... and, honestly, it's looking more likely. Scum would want to do this if one of their partners were almost at a lynch. I literally cannot consider any other scum motivation.

[xRECKONERx]

No you werent, you specifically said "If Tragedy was mafia". You never use mafia as a general term throughout the entire game. Every time its mentioned it refers to a specific faction. When you are using a term to cover all anti-town, you use the word "scum". Unless you are attempting to argue that the one time in the entire game you deviate from previous usage of a word occured in the one post where a scumslip is entirely possible, you didnt bring up her being wolf. I dont buy that the one time in 32 posts that you decide to change use of a word happened, and that more likely you ignored her being wolf because you are wolf with non-tragedy.

streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch

[dramonic]

...llama, it's suicidal for her team even without being the last member =_=
Connections can be drawn between dead scum and living one.

[Hiraki]

Hey guys.

When Espwolf flips, that'll confirm Llamawolf. However, the Llamawolf guarantees nothing.

So.

Kill the wolf, please?

[xRECKONERx]

THERE ARE TWO LLAMAS NOW

[Hiraki]

THERE ARE TWO LLAMAS NOW

TOO MUCH PRESSURE.

The bad one of course.

[LlamaFluff]

This is friggen rediculous... dram is just chilling while he has Reck defend him.

The scum-mafia thing is not a stretch in the least bit. Go do a search on dram and see when he uses the two terms. For the entire game he says that someone is "scum" when talking about them being anti-town, he brings up scum/scummy around 25 times throughout the game. When he uses the word "mafia", around ten times, he is refering the the mafia faction, not the wolf faction. He even brings up wolf faction a few times, each time refering to them thusly.

Him calling Tragedy either town or mafia is completely out of place with the rest of his terminology, and sure looks like a slip. Im not reading too much into it when its the ONLY time in the entire game when he changed his terminology.

*still cant believe im arguing my case with someone who isnt my lynch target*

Anyways, lining up lynches is scummy. I dont care if other people have been doing it, its scummy if they are too. Dram is doing it for a while though (vezok [even though was mafia, was not wolf so counts], then Esp (who im pretty sure is town), and tragedy (who is town if dram is wolf)). It counts as a tell, you cant argue that it gets thrown out when everyone is using it, in that case it just applies to everyone.

The vote on vezok was scummy, he was already writing off responsibility for it when he made the vote, while already getting ready to continue policy lynching the next day, and the day after that. This is not scumhunting, which is something he has not done this entire game.

Also im scum for starting a case on someone with no votes? I know Kise is town, I have a town read on the PO/Esp pair... guess how many votes the pair I think is scum is going to have?

Yes you have some sort of confirmation bias in him being town because that is what you want. If its going to take me arguing for the entire time im alive that dram is scum for you to finally lynch him when I flip town, im going to do that because no one is remotely considering this possibility.

Pairing is dram/xalxe with one of Emp/hikari and ash/evil llama.

Dram is refusing to scumhunt
Setting up policy and chain lynches
Trying to shrug off responsibility for his votes
Possibly scumsliped about alignment....

He is wolf. My balls will (sadly) remain dry.

[GreyICE]

Hey Llama

@PO/ESP: Why were you two more interested into lynching

Silavor

lynch instead of the Q21 or Kcdaspot wagon?

Damn werewolves.

So... You think that PO/ESP are part of the werewolf team (for no reason), yet your argument is based on them lynch both town and NOT the MAFIA team?
Damn mafia

Vote: Tragedy

See? I don't even need to participate that much, scum just outs themselves magically

Not done with my reread, obviously.

Your posting is lame.

More tomorrow when I can work up the care to care

[LlamaFluff]

Nope, that was him voting Tragedy who he was calling a member of the mafia team because he thought she slipped. Notice he goes back to calling anti-town scum in that same post.

[GreyICE]

Except where he, y'know, keeps referring to her as "mafia" until we flip Vezok Piraka.

Your case is even lamer than the "GreyICE bussed kcda and Vezok" theory.

I don't say that lightly.

[Kise]

Excuse me, how the fuck are we scummy as hell? You AND Kise have never explained this one anywhere near adequately. It looks like you're trying to hold open our mislynch if people are up for it while preparing yourself for a Town flip.

And the reason you're concerned about getting lynched if we flip town is..? I thought werewolves had days to go before winning with a full team. There's no reason for concern. I get the hint that you have a pre-planned posts that goes over how mega holy of a townie you are. Go ahead and post it, as I'm pretty sure you have it sitting in your 'My Documents' folder.. Just As Planned..

I will say [again] that Reck has no problem admitting when dram is scum or null. I myself know a bit about dram's play, so I wouldn't use his every-game actions to judge him, LF.

[Purple Orange]

Except where he, y'know, keeps referring to her as "mafia" until we flip Vezok Piraka.

Show me where. LlamaFluff is right about his use of terminology- there's not one single example of mafia/scum used interchangably by him. Were you trying to refer to this?

Tragedy and Co are being dramatic, again. Now that it turns out they cannot be mafia, the townish feel I'd gotten from the whole Vezok debacle has got them back in my scummier list.

Dram is specifically saying they cannot be mafia [team], BECAUSE THE MAFIA TEAM IS DEAD.

And concerning this:

I do not see the town motive at all for saying she'll self-vote if Vezok makes a decent case (barring the fact its a riskless bet, considering vezok making a decent case is statistically impossible). On the other hand, if she were mafia it means giving up any hope for her team to win.

"Mafia team in particular" is PRECISELY how I interpreted dram the first time, because it IS how he (and most other people) have been using the words this thread. And because he mentioned suicide. I wasn't 100% clear on what dram was saying, because it was phrased a bit weird, but I thought it was along the lines of, "it would be a bad idea no matter what scum alignment they were, but that if they were mafia-team, it'd be utter suicide and the loss of the game for their team."

Which...means I DIDN'T think he was scummy for referring to the mafia team in particular. I just thought it was a bit badly phrased. It's his denial that that's what he was doing, and his trying to say he was using scum and mafia interchangably, that actually makes me look at him funny today.

[LlamaFluff]

Except where he, y'know, keeps referring to her as "mafia" until we flip Vezok Piraka.

Dram thought Tragedy was specifically mafia though. He said that multiple times. Show me where he used mafia as a general term in this game.

[xRECKONERx]

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST LLAMA

"OH NO HE DIDN'T SAY MAFIA AT ALL EARLIER IN THE GAME"

OH FUCKING NO HE'S OBVIOUSLY SLIPPING AT THAT
PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS
OH WAIT YOU PROBABLY FUCKING CAN'T BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM

VOTE: LLAMAFLUFF

YOU ARE SERIOUSLY PUSHING A TERRIBLY WEAK CASE ON A LURKER/NONCONTRIBUTOR

TUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNEL

FUCKING DIE SCUM

[xRECKONERx]

NOT TO MENTION you're wanting to lynch dramonic BEFORE HIS LOVER EVEN HAS A CHANCE TO CATCH UP

SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU

/rage

i'm going to go drink more now

[Hiraki]

RECK STOP. LLAMAWOLF CAN DIE TOMOROW.

[xRECKONERx]

THEN WHO THE FUCK DIES TODAY

[Purple Orange]

Um...you realize Llamafluff is Kise's partner, right, guys?

Even if you are going to disagre with me on that, what do you think about the case on dram?

As above, I thought dram was referring to mafia-team-in-particular, and I didn't think it was a scumslip when he said it.

I think that a lot of the things you're accusing dram of, Kise looked worse.

dram was holding steady my as third scumpick the last time I analyzed everyone. He's still about that level. But as of right now, I'd still rather lynch you/Kise. It does feel like you two are trying to look town and get votes off your back and onto ANYONE else (and cause Espy/me to be lynched by default, but with YOUR hands coming away technically clean) by initiating more new cases in the past half day than you guys did all thread. (Grey, llama, dram...)

This isn't entirely fair of me, as you're a replacement, so of course will have your own and new opinions about the thread. And you might cause votes to come off Espy/me as well as yourselves in the process. But, dammit, I gotta make a call here, and right now it's still stuck on you guys. If I'm tunneling wrongly...well, Kise would know what that's like, and how hard it can be to break.

Also, I want llamarble to answer the question I asked him.

[Purple Orange]

NOT TO MENTION you're wanting to lynch dramonic BEFORE HIS LOVER EVEN HAS A CHANCE TO CATCH UP

I'd really like his lover to post...anything.

And as all the replacements including the new llama are just making things very confusing:

In order claimed.

UPDATED (AGAIN) LOVER LIST

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - Ashblade _{(replaced DarlaBlueEyes)}
Kise - LlamaFluff _{(replaced PrayPiotr, Implosion)}
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain

vezokpiraka - Mist7676 _{(replaced SnakePlissken)}

q21 - Umbrage

Tragedy - Papa Zito _{(replaced Mariyta)}

Kcdaspot - Baby Spice

Purple Orange - Espeonage

Silavor - Charlie _{(replaced Haylen)}

dramonic - Xalxe _{(replaced werewolf555)}

[LlamaFluff]

So reck, when I flip town will you finally realize that dram isnt obv town?

Even you just called him a lurker/non-contributor. After almost 70 pages having a pair with zero contribution isnt a tell?

You are also now saying "trying to get any other lynch" when I come in an immediately take the path of GREATEST resistance? I know how people think enough to know I was going to get blasted for saying that dram is scum, but he is, so its something im going to say. And auto-lynch before his partner catches up? When did I say "we should auto-lynch dram"? Why doesnt that make you scum for wanting to lynch me before Xalxe catches up?

Reck needs to get over the read he has had since early in the game. They can be hard to break, but he needs to break it, and is not really willing to even try to.