The Mafiascum World of Warcraft Thread

[JDodge]

i'd also like to take this time to ask exactly what this co-founder position's benefits are, noting that if it's essentially co-GM then reck definitively should step down as GM as it's pretty clear he's no longer a trustworthy arbiter, nor is he acting in his position as the "necessary functionary" that we agreed on

[InflatablePie]

You know, I chipped in for a bank tab, have been making pots and such on request (namely cayke and her mana potions), have farmed mats for people (ex - dram's Motes that took for-freaking-ever), have mailed random useful gear/potions to those that could use it... Hell, our guild name was one of my suggestions. Do you see me asking for power or throwing a fit about other people having a higher rank than I?

No. Because not only is this just a game, but we're supposed help each other out, as a guild. We're supposed to not only help, but communicate with one another. That's key. And that's all this seems to be - a miscommunication.

JD, I see where you're coming from. If you had a problem, though, you could have spoken up instead of threatening to quit the guild. I don't have anything against you, but I do have to say this - if you want to leave, leave. No one's stopping you. Also, if you want this to be a full democracy, why not let our recruits have some input too? You've failed to mention them.

Concerning the guild architecture or whatever the fuck, I gave no input because I don't think I'm that great a player, so my opinion doesn't matter as much. I do like the idea of higher ranks acting as "teachers" to the lower ranks. I'd even offer to "sign up" for a council position, but again, I lack self-confidence/skill.

Concerning the guild tabard, I like the yellow. But if we change it, I suggest either white, black or blue. Just my two copper.

But basically, we're all adults here (right?). Let's talk things out. As long as we have a website, I fail to see why it matters who makes it. Everyone has equal input regardless of rank (Reck offering to step down to appease JD proves this), so everyone just take a chill pill.

First tans and now this - I'm tired of all this drama. =/

/phonepost

[Flameaxe]

WORLD OF DRAMACRAFT. WEEEE.

[AGar]

WORLD OF DRAMACRAFT. WEEEE.

Bam, how long was the server transfer approximately?

[Flameaxe]

WORLD OF DRAMACRAFT. WEEEE.

Bam, how long was the server transfer approximately?

No longer than 2-3 hours for me. Surprisingly quick.

[AGar]

Hmmmmm.

HMMMMMMM.

I wonder.

[Flameaxe]

DO IT.

[AGar]

85. Heroic Ready. Prot/Arms.

Only hitch is that I'm still in a guild on Shadowmoon that I like, it's just I never get on with them anymore :/

Grrrrr.

[JDodge]

You know, I chipped in for a bank tab, have been making pots and such on request (namely cayke and her mana potions), have farmed mats for people (ex - dram's Motes that took for-freaking-ever), have mailed random useful gear/potions to those that could use it... Hell, our guild name was one of my suggestions. Do you see me asking for power or throwing a fit about other people having a higher rank than I?

No. My point is not that I have no power or that other people have a higher rank, my point is that there is no need for the power to exist and the rationale behind it is a steaming BS sandwich.

No. Because not only is this just a game, but we're supposed help each other out, as a guild. We're supposed to not only help, but communicate with one another. That's key. And that's all this seems to be - a miscommunication.

The latest in a string of miscommunications.

JD, I see where you're coming from. If you had a problem, though, you could have spoken up instead of threatening to quit the guild. I don't have anything against you, but I do have to say this - if you want to leave, leave. No one's stopping you. Also, if you want this to be a full democracy, why not let our recruits have some input too? You've failed to mention them.

This is me speaking up, and I have technically quit already (as has Cay, who has cosigned on my original letter, but she's not formalized it yet)

I have not met any of our recruits yet.

Concerning the guild architecture or whatever the fuck, I gave no input because I don't think I'm that great a player, so my opinion doesn't matter as much. I do like the idea of higher ranks acting as "teachers" to the lower ranks. I'd even offer to "sign up" for a council position, but again, I lack self-confidence/skill.

My point is that everyone's opinion should matter if we're to continue the facade that we're a welcoming, social group.

But basically, we're all adults here (right?). Let's talk things out. As long as we have a website, I fail to see why it matters who makes it. Everyone has equal input regardless of rank (Reck offering to step down to appease JD proves this), so everyone just take a chill pill.

First tans and now this - I'm tired of all this drama. =/

/phonepost

As an artist, and as someone who views this undertaking (most of which is going to be about aesthetics, as is most every website in the long run; you wouldn't visit a place if it was hideously ugly) as a creative endeavor, having creative control stripped from me without anyone consulting me is something I take as a personal insult to my talents and to my dedication towards this project (which will require a lot of hours of work). Since it seems we have taken the "I'm just going to make my own" approach to things here, then the fact that my project was at a competitive disadvantage from the beginning is also insulting to me.

[AGar]

I MIGHT DO IT GUYS.

But I actually and legitimately have to consult my girlfriend first.

[Flameaxe]

85. Heroic Ready. Prot/Arms.

Only hitch is that I'm still in a guild on Shadowmoon that I like, it's just I never get on with them anymore :/

Grrrrr.

WE NEED MORE PEOPLE FOR CLASSIC/BC RAIDS MAAAAN.

[AGar]

85. Heroic Ready. Prot/Arms.

Only hitch is that I'm still in a guild on Shadowmoon that I like, it's just I never get on with them anymore :/

Grrrrr.

WE NEED MORE PEOPLE FOR CLASSIC/BC RAIDS MAAAAN.

IF THE GF APPROVES, WE ARE A GO.

[Flameaxe]

WOO

[xRECKONERx]

Well, JD, I told you I'd step down to prove I don't care about the power involved. And everyone else seemed to be okay with it. The structure I would like to set up is this:

Hierarchy

Guild Master ~ A function-only role, possibly someone's Level 1 alt that won't actually be used much, only there to change Rank, Rank Permissions, and Bank Tab Permissions.

Council ~ An odd number of people, each one in charge of a separate area. This would ideally include whoever has Guild Master privileges, so that the Council can carry out their demands through the use of the GM power. We have to vote on Council positions, though.

Veteran ~ Any member who has proved their worth to the guild long enough and does not want a Council position/doesn't win a Council election.

Member ~ Standard guild member.

Recruit ~ Trial period for two weeks after they originally join.

Probation ~ Someone who has been inactive, or has committed a rule infraction.

Council Positions

So far, I've figured out that we could potentially use the following roles. The council as a whole will make executive decisions, but these roles would focus specifically on certain things. The names, obviously, can change.

The Banker ~ Organizes/moderates what goes in and out of the bank, to an extent.

Public Relations ~ Specifically deals with recruiting.

Human Resources ~ The go-to person for any interpersonal conflict within the guild.

Raid Leader ~ Person who is responsible for leading the raids and knowing the fight information (when we get there, which will be sooner than we all expect).

Someone-Who-Organizes-Guild-Calendar-Shit ~ I don't have a name for this role, but essentially they would make sure Guild Events get posted, and they would (ideally) also be responsible for knowing what achievements we have left to get in order to properly create events/groups for raids/achievements.

I'm open to any other ideas you can think of.

Democracy

Once every [x] period of time, Council positions will be voted on by Members/Veterans, and the Guild Master will be chosen by the Council, from the Council. We would need to have a Council election NOW, and we would need to decide on the different positions within the Council before going ahead with the actual election. Unless someone has a different idea, I don't see how we could just have a free-for-all for every council position available.

Website

JD has a specific design/layout in mind for the website, AGar has offered to help with coding, and Brock has set something up as an "in the meantime" type thing. Everyone can find the current temporary website here. You can sign up for the site using your WoW login and characters, and everything is streamlined into the site itself. Brock is more interested in the management/upkeep side of things than he is the actual coding/design of the website (though obviously he wants to be involved in that), but I think the Guildzilla site works for now. AGar is looking into ways to route WoWhead data and Armory data directly into a custom-built site. The three of you could collaborate (and anyone else, for that matter) on putting the whole website together.

AGar has already signed up (as did I, and Brock) and I would like to move all guild-related discussion to the temporary site so that everyone can read along, not just MS.net people. Forums are being set up as we speak so they should be good to go fairly soon.

In conclusion, this is democratic. I don't care about power, and I believe the above system can keep power in-check as well as give people a direct say in who runs what, and who has what abilities.

[dramonic]

No. My point is not that I have no power or that other people have a higher rank, my point is that there is no need for the power to exist and the rationale behind it is a steaming BS sandwich.

The only one with ACTUAL higher power besides Reck is myself, and it's that to reorganize the bank pretty much freely. Brock's Co-GM title is a name more than anything else.

My point is that everyone's opinion should matter if we're to continue the facade that we're a welcoming, social group.

I'm not sure how anyone's opinion is being ignored frankly. You haven't logged on in a while and only hinted once at having interest in us having a website =S

As an artist, and as someone who views this undertaking (most of which is going to be about aesthetics, as is most every website in the long run; you wouldn't visit a place if it was hideously ugly) as a creative endeavor, having creative control stripped from me without anyone consulting me is something I take as a personal insult to my talents and to my dedication towards this project (which will require a lot of hours of work). Since it seems we have taken the "I'm just going to make my own" approach to things here, then the fact that my project was at a competitive disadvantage from the beginning is also insulting to me.

Well, if you're not openly announcing that you are currently working on a website for the guild it's not stripping you of creative control as much as assuming you were just launching an idea in the air...

[dramonic]

EDIT: Even then, Reck's not using his guild master powers beside making special ranks to avoid getting recruit-plundered.

[InflatablePie]

I'll run/apply/whatever for the Human Relations spot.

Or Public Resources.

[Edit] I'm so tired I mixed up both names. Strike that, reverse it.

Even then, Reck's not using his guild master powers beside making special ranks to avoid getting recruit-plundered.

^

Can't we all just get along?


@AGar: A free transfer (when Cata first came out) was about 15 minutes and a paid transfer I did a month or two ago (because I was too lazy to reroll a Lv60) took about 30-60m. So, not very long. Then again, they were fairly low level with little items and stuff, so...

[JDodge]

really suggest in the long-term scaling the HR position to a sub-council of people, or perhaps separating it from the "council" part

You haven't logged on in a while and only hinted once at having interest in us having a website =S

1. i stated pretty publicly that i was taking a 2 week break for midterms + spring break
2. i'm on AIM almost 24/7, people could have dropped me a line there
3. we have a fun thing called a pm system here on MS that could have been used

Well, if you're not openly announcing that you are currently working on a website for the guild it's not stripping you of creative control as much as assuming you were just launching an idea in the air...

i don't see how i at all didn't openly announce i was working on one, and people could still have asked instead of assuming

when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself

The only one with ACTUAL higher power besides Reck is myself, and it's that to reorganize the bank pretty much freely. Brock's Co-GM title is a name more than anything else.

it's impossible for any of us to confirm that

[TheGunslinger]

when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself

when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption.

[JDodge]

when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself

when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption.

so long and thanks for the fish, asshole

[xRECKONERx]

1. i stated pretty publicly that i was taking a 2 week break for midterms + spring break
2. i'm on AIM almost 24/7, people could have dropped me a line there
3. we have a fun thing called a pm system here on MS that could have been used

Why is it our responsibility to do that? I appreciate you volunteering as I'm sure everyone else does, but we saw no proactive progress, and it's not up to us to somehow get ahold of you to make sure you're doing what you at-one-time volunteered to do. And no, there was no way for Brock to contact you, seeing as how he doesn't have AIM and isn't on MS.

it's impossible for any of us to confirm that

It's impossible for any of you to confirm... what? That nobody else has higher power other than dram? No, that's pretty easy to tell. That I haven't given secret powers to people? No, I haven't done that, and there's no reason to think I have.

really suggest in the long-term scaling the HR position to a sub-council of people, or perhaps separating it from the "council" part

This is probably a better idea anyway, since one person making conflict resolution decisions is a bit too overpowered.

I would like to figure out a set few council positions so we can get a preliminary list and start the elections.

[JDodge]

1. i stated pretty publicly that i was taking a 2 week break for midterms + spring break
2. i'm on AIM almost 24/7, people could have dropped me a line there
3. we have a fun thing called a pm system here on MS that could have been used

Why is it our responsibility to do that? I appreciate you volunteering as I'm sure everyone else does, but we saw no proactive progress, and it's not up to us to somehow get ahold of you to make sure you're doing what you at-one-time volunteered to do. And no, there was no way for Brock to contact you, seeing as how he doesn't have AIM and isn't on MS.

so you're working from the assumption that i'm a liar when i say i'm going to do something and/or that i'm a flake

well that's a good place to start

it's impossible for any of us to confirm that

It's impossible for any of you to confirm... what? That nobody else has higher power other than dram? No, that's pretty easy to tell. That I haven't given secret powers to people? No, I haven't done that, and there's no reason to think I have.

actually, i'd argue that defining a rank for

a single person

is a good reason to think that you have, otherwise it's at best just an appeasement (which i'd find kind of insulting, personally)

[xRECKONERx]

No, I'm working on the assumption that people say they'll do things a lot then don't have time. But a guild website is a rather pressing matter since we're trying to start recruiting.

I'm not discussing the matter any further. It's been discussed to death, apologized for, and everyone else but you seems to have moved past it. I'd like to move on to actually improving the guild.

[xRECKONERx]

So I created and leveled a Warrior with dram tonight (he has a hunter, both are undead). I'm terrible at tanking with it though. I'm just not sure what the general approach to tanking with a Warrior at this low of a level should be. Any advice, guys?

[Fenchurch]

What level are you? I'd say the basics are:
a) You pull. It's a major pain trying to get aggro off someone else at the start of the battle with zero rage.
b) Get the Prot talent Blood and Thunder. Charge, Rend + Thunderstorm into groups, repeat Thunderstorm as often as possible.
c) Use Sunder Armor (later replaced by Devastate) and Shield Slam and Revenge on your main target.
d) I like Gag Order, for silencing casters, to ease maneuverability without using line of sight. I find that besides threat, the main challenge as tank is ensuring the fight happens in the right place so you don't get adds.

Additionally, an addon like Tidy Plates: Threat Plates works wonders for telling you which mobs you're losing threat on.