Newbie 1070 - Game Over

[splitfarvle]

See what a little discussion gets us guys? People like Quaroth "confirming" other players based on no actual facts. Quaroth, that's not called "confirming" that's called buddying. Same thing for you Rain, you don't know that Ellyssa is town, unless YOU are scum. However, other than that comment I like the rest of Quaroth's points, so maybe he made a legit town mistake. I don't know.

By buddying, do you mean something like this?

@Split - Actually I'm much more okay with your vote then Stels and Rain's prevote. Unlike them, you're taking responsibility for your vote. When I flip town, it's gonna make everyone who lynched me look bad. But, as a member of the town you shouldn't worry about that. I like it. Not so much the vote on me, but actually having the conviction to do so.

Now I'm going to do something shocking and change my tune a little bit. I am much happier with your rebuttals than your original post. Do I think you were seedplanting? 100%. Do I think you were breadcrumbing a vote on me? 100%. But like Split you are taken responsibility for your vote, and part of me doesn't see scum doing that. After these last few posts by Stels, Nacho, and Rain, you're looking like a less desirable lynch.

Everyone you mention in #285 gets an attack except the two players currently voting for you.

[Quaroath]

But Toad didn't tunnel Jack on D1.. they argued a bit at the end over his lack of any sort of tells but Toad was mostly on Stels D1.

Hmm. I'll go double check this, I've got it in my head that t-bone was on muh towards the end.

[T-Bone]

2 points. One, Jack wasn't confirmed ON Day 1. Two, I thought you were referring to Ellyssa being confirmed town, not Jack.

@ Split - So I didn't attack Ellyssa in that one post. See most posts before that. Do you want to be attacked? Why do you care if I attacked you or not? Had I attacked you, you would have posted something along the lines "T-Bone is only attacking me because I voted him" and DON'T pretend for one second if I nitpicked at something you did you wouldn't pull something like that out. As it turned out, I didn't see anything worth attacking. Your vote on me has NOTHING to do with my scum hunting. It's not my fault you're voting incorrectly.

Truth be told, if/when I get lynched, it'll tell a lot about the people voting me, and the town might have a chance come LyLo Day 3. Those who were giving excuses to justify when they jump on by bandwagon later. If those people making excuses to vote me later really think I'm scum, why aren't they voting me now? Why haven't I been lynched? Because they realize I'll flip town and they'll be in hot water come Day 3?

[T-Bone]

EBWOP

Oh I see what you mean Split. I was not doing what I accused Quaroth of doing. I never said "Split IS town". I wasn't inferring that I know that you are a member of the town, I don't know that. I was inferring that IF you are town, then you have nothing to lose by putting yourself out there.

Gosh I'm pulling Quaroth's left and right now

[Stels]

@Stels
Coaching is only really revealing when the person on the receiving end flips scum, otherwise it's a null tell. Also, Nacho has the credentials to be an IC. This is not scumhunting, this is exaggerating.

Ok, coaching redefined for me. I know Nacho has the credentials to be anything on this forum. The fact that it's not his role to do so is what I'm getting at and even if it was, it's totally unnecessary, since I'm sure most of us know what's what now. Advice is advice, but advice can be buddying as well, although I won't expect that from Nacho.

Nacho is town. I believe in Nacho, even if Nacho doesn't believe in me.

Trying to do the same here, but so far no luck.

Honestly T-bone just doesn't interest me at this point, I'm watching him but he's pushing one person I have zero interest in voting today, and I think he's doing it poorly..

He also tunneled a confirmed townie D1

. I don't think he's scum, I just don't think he's effectively hunting scum either.

Yet, you can't confirm that until their actual flip. The only confirmation you can have about someone's alignment is if you're scum, which I'm guessing you knew? from Day 1?

Honestly T-bone just doesn't interest me at this point, I'm watching him but he's pushing one person I have zero interest in voting today, and I think he's doing it poorly..

He also tunneled a confirmed townie D1

. I don't think he's scum, I just don't think he's effectively hunting scum either.

Yet, you can't confirm that until their actual flip. The only confirmation you can have about someone's alignment is if you're scum, which I'm guessing you knew? from Day 1?

@Rain. Whoa whoa. That's a mighty fine fishing pole you're considering whipping out. There's no reason for me to consider a Cop in this equation, because there's no reason for a Cop to out themselves to protect a townie.

@ Quaroth - I'm sorry. CONFIRMED TOWNIE? The only people who 100% know who is town, is the mafia. So, was that a Freudian slip? Gonna kill Ellyssa tonight so that she flips town, so you can come back Day 3 and say "see I knew Ellyssa was town!"

DAMNIT! Ninja'd.

[Quaroath]

@Rain. Whoa whoa. That's a mighty fine fishing pole you're considering whipping out. There's no reason for me to consider a Cop in this equation, because there's no reason for a Cop to out themselves to protect a townie.

@ Quaroth - I'm sorry. CONFIRMED TOWNIE? The only people who 100% know who is town, is the mafia. So, was that a Freudian slip? Gonna kill Ellyssa tonight so that she flips town, so you can come back Day 3 and say "see I knew Ellyssa was town!"

DAMNIT! Ninja'd.

ZOMG YOUR RIGHT, SEE MY REPLY TO TBONE!

[Rain]

Well, to be fair, the main reason why I consider Nacho to be town is meta. While he hasn't done much in this game, he has played enough to build a play style to compare to.

Btw, nice twist of words. Notice that I haven't fished for roles. That sentence was mainly there to provide an explanation as to why some people would strongly defend another player.

[Nachomamma8]

The fact that he's being outright scummy, coaching him might get him into a better situation. Giving random blurbs of advice is not scummy if you were an SE or IC this game, but you're not ;P Especially when most of the players know how the game works by now as well as T-Bone already having experience, I find your action even more scummy in this situation.

T-Bone sounded in the quoted post like he legitimately thought tunneling was a good idea.

@Nacho - I guess the same holds true that I said last time. The difference between what I'm doing and what you're doing, is that I'm willing to lynch whoever I think is most scum. Right now Ellyssa is it. Day 2 is young, that could very easily change. What I still have a problem with is that your 1st post in the game you've already decided "I'm gonna vote T-Bone or Rain, depending on who's bandwagon starts rolling." I don't get how that's pro-town play.

I'm willing to lynch whoever I think is most scum as well. I just don't see my top suspect in the group of Stels, Elyssa, or Quarorath. If they do something to make me doubt that town read on them, then I will have no problem lynching them. But if they continue playing like they have, I won't allow them to be lynched.

Also, are you going to vote on the failed tunnel on Ellyssa? Or are you just going to float around until a bandwagon is formed?

[T-Bone]

OMG YOUR RIGHT! I LACK THE ABILITY TO CHANGE MY MIND! MUST VOTE ELLYSSA AGAIN!!

...

Wow, your astute accusations are amazing Macho.

@ Rain - Meta? Alright. Here's a "meta". I play scummy whether I'm scum or not. So

[Nachomamma8]

The point of the questioning was not to infer you couldn't change your mind, but to point out that you're not actually taking any direction with your accusations.

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count

T-Bone (2) - Ellyssa, splitfarvle
Rain (1) - Nachomamma8
Nachomamma8 (1) - Stels
Stels (1) - Rain
splitfarvle (1) - Quaroath

Not Voting (1) - T-Bone

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[Rain]

Moar votes on Stels please.

[Ellyssa]

Blech, stagnancy is not good.

@Rain: Why? Have you got any other reasons to vote Stels besides #249? I may have missed something or other? Are you that confident he's scum from a single D1 play? I don't even see a strong argument against him of any kind besides that, yet you seem to want to risk putting us into lylo (if he's town) based on a single read. I think even T-Bone has a stronger case on me than that, despite me blowing a few holes into it (from my perspective anyway). I get that you're a bit bored with the game, re: the D1 lynch and that #311 just above; the pace has definitely died down, but I don't see how there's logic there that implicates Stels at all besides the same kind of logic that T-Bone used on him early in D1 (Randomly being the Xth person to do something.) that I called him on..

[Stels]

@Nacho: And tunneling isn't good?
@Rain: Try harder.

[splitfarvle]

@Nacho

What do you think about Jack's nightkill? Do you have any opinion as to why barefoot played the way she did? i.e. being wishy-washy and then disappearing for most of D1? What do you think about Quaroath's case on me?

[Nachomamma8]

@Stels: Absolutely not, for the reasons listed. At a minimum, you need to at least be CONSIDERING other suspects.

@Split: He seemed townie to most of the players. Thus, he died. The eagerness to get to night is also a classic PR tell, so they may've been cop or dochunting.
I have no idea as to why barefoot played the way she did. The only information I have that you don't about her is that she did it all from a town perspective.
He makes a good point on your waffling, but I'm not quite decided on your motivation yet. Town and scum fencesit equally, so I just need to see how you continue to play in order to determine why you fencesit.

[T-Bone]

I missed you guys.

Guess the only problem I have with the most recent posts is Rain. At least make a case on Stels. Geez.

[splitfarvle]

@T-Bone

But, if you must know I am considering the Rain vote myself. But for now, I don't need to move my vote from where it is.

As for my suspicion of Rain, it's just something I'm keeping in the back of my mind. I echo the sentiments that have been said about him thus far. Fair points have been made about him. I don't need to repeat them.

I don't really mind if you repeat others, especially since Rain is the only person besides Ellyssa you've expressed an interest in voting for. You've been aggressive about voting and stating why for the entire game. What's interesting is that you made these statements when you and Rain were tied, and since then you've unvoted Ellyssa, defended yourself from Rain and brought up fishing and his case on Stels all without voting for him. I can see how it might be taken as scummy to vote for Rain at this point since you two would be tied, but

As a member of the town you should

n't

worry about making mistakes or looking scummy. Your goal isn't to survive, your goal is to nail scum. Meanwhile the mafia's goal is to survive.

Bolded part added by me, based on a correction he claimed in his exchange with Ellyssa here#266

It seems like you're trying to get Rain lynched instead of you without actually contributing a vote that could bite you later.

[splitfarvle]

@Nacho

I think that Stels is town because of how transparent he's been this game. As scum, he's a bit more reserved. He avoided the muh bandwagon yesterday, but didn't call muh town for cred after the lynch. He's also had some really good scumhunting this game (#9 and #12, especially), and nothing he has done has been remotely scummy.

What was good about Stels' scumhunting in #9 and #12? One thing common in both posts is that he expresses strong suspicion of barefoot (you!) and Quaroath, whom he votes for at the end of #12.

[Quaroath]

@Nacho

I think that Stels is town because of how transparent he's been this game. As scum, he's a bit more reserved. He avoided the muh bandwagon yesterday, but didn't call muh town for cred after the lynch. He's also had some really good scumhunting this game (#9 and #12, especially), and nothing he has done has been remotely scummy.

What was good about Stels' scumhunting in #9 and #12? One thing common in both posts is that he expresses strong suspicion of barefoot (you!) and Quaroath, whom he votes for at the end of #12.

(For finding a scum-slip/claim that he had to twist my words to find)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Stels

Have reasons, but I won't go into them right now.

[T-Bone]

What is the case on Stels exactly?

@ Split, the simple answer is I haven't decided yet.

[Ellyssa]

@Nacho

I think that Stels is town because of how transparent he's been this game. As scum, he's a bit more reserved. He avoided the muh bandwagon yesterday, but didn't call muh town for cred after the lynch. He's also had some really good scumhunting this game (#9 and #12, especially), and nothing he has done has been remotely scummy.

What was good about Stels' scumhunting in #9 and #12? One thing common in both posts is that he expresses strong suspicion of barefoot (you!) and Quaroath, whom he votes for at the end of #12.

(For finding a scum-slip/claim that he had to twist my words to find)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Stels

Have reasons, but I won't go into them right now.

So.. Stels and Nacho are the scum? Convince us to vote too or it'll go nowhere?

No idea T-Bone. This is definitely confusing.

[Stels]

There is no case. That's the point.
@Nacho: I do have other scum suspects besides you, it's just you're more worthy of pursuing due to that action of yours.

[Nachomamma8]

@Split: I said it was GOOD scumhunting, not that all of it was accurate . But if you reread his posting, you'll notice that he's following up on a variety of scum suspects in both posts, and in #12, he gave a reads list unprompted. Both of these things make him take positions that aren't beneficial for scum to take, because he's stepping on toes and documenting his positions on each individual player so it can be questioned if those positions suddenly change.

[Rain]

Stels' #12 was not unprompted. Jack's list was, I followed suit and invited others to join. Stels came later, after Ellyssa.

The gist of why my vote remains on Stels is this:
- He provided no explanation to his read-change on Jack right after Ellyssa and I changed our reads.
- He keeps his vote on Nacho despite acknowledging the original reason behind the vote may not be a scum tell.
- He exhibits no town tells (subjective, and admittedly weakest argument here).