Newbie 1076: Day Three

[Kagetora]

But anyway, can you give your thoughts on Sakako even if you aren't going to vote for him? You don't seem to say much about it, and you just answered about Otolia.

To be entirely honest (and I'll probably get hate about this) this is mostly what my gut is telling me. Sure I could repeat what a lot of other people have said, but frankly that doesn't do much good does it? Internally I essentially read each post looking at basically only this. Author, theory/player, support/disagree.

@Chk
Way to take what kage said completely out of context.

and if I didn't think he's just being weird I would have hammered him.

Thank you.

@DFL: Regarding my addression (which I have thus decided is a word) of Sakako, you'll notice I don't do much addressing of most people unless my name pops up.

[Sakako]

Well this is interesting. Has anyone else noticed how Olinea has conveniently disappeared? I'm not going to vote for him because there's so little time left, but it is like he's almost certain I'm going to be lynched today. But from my point of view I can't vote for him because everyone else thinks he's town. This post doesn't really mean much at this point but for the sake of the game, when I flip town, he's going to have some explaining to do.

[Sakako]

And when I say I can't vote for him it means that if I vote for him then we will end up in a deadlock.

[Sakako]

Also Glass. I really don't like the way you count the votes that we need. Yes Kagetora is voting No Lynch, but that doesn't mean that we need 5 out of 6 town votes to guarantee a lynch. What do we have at the moment? We currently have 6 out of 8 people voting for someone, and Kage voting No Lynch. The way I see it, although I have no way to guarantee it, is that someone voting me is scum. Sorry for the triple post. Just thought people might like to hear a little more from me.

[chkflip]

I asked CM this earlier, but it appears I need to ask Sakako the same thing:

Who of the three votes, or for that matter any of the votes ever placed, are scum?

Also, I didn't pull anything out of context. At all. Kage said that he never mentioned hammering, so I showed him where he spoke of hammering. There's not context to pull it out of, that wasn't the point. The point was to show the liar his lie.

[MrBump]

Misrepping me like a pro, Glass. Let's begin.

I was a happy glass waking up, but then I come to this.... I am no longer a happy glass.

Well that's no good, I wonder why?

I do not like this bump, I do not like this at all....

Awk now.

First off bump, it is pretty clear that you are voting otolia because you dislike his playstyle instead of thinking that he is scummy.

Clearly you have not read my posts at all.

Otolia has contributed nothing to town, continues to sit on a read given to him by someone FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW is town, can't explain his vote fully, then votes Sakako

just because he dislikes No Lynch.

Really. He has expressed no read on Sakako really and just wants to lynch him to end the day. That is not ProTown.

Bump comes into the game jumping onto the easiest target he can find (CM) and then sits around doing nothing but complaining about lack of activity and some one-liners in between.

THE LACK OF POSTS IN THIS THREAD IS DISTURBING

Grey, this is getting boring.

Can we do something now?

>Easiest target
>Is commonly viewed as town
*insert funny pic here*

Common Man was viewed as Newb Town. Everyone just unvoted him in seconds after a very faulty defence, saying he was just a newb. I'm sorry, NO. He looked incredibly scummy to me.
But you're not. You're his replacement and I generally don't think of them as the same, if that makes sense. Your opening wall screamed "TOWN" at me and then it was obvious that Common WAS just a Newb.

Oh btw bump:

Did it never occur to you that YOU'RE town, so your ideas are also good...?

This was directed at Otolia in ISO 13
How do you know that otolia is town? If you know that otolia is town, why are you voting for him?

Misrepping me.
So hard.
From everyone's point of view, they are town. Everyone tries to look town, right? There's no point in saying, every time, "If you're town from your point of view ______", because that just wastes time. Innocent until proven guilty and all that jazz.

Anyways, I come in and bump pretty much jumps ship on the CM wagon saying that I am town. Changing reads is not scummy, but if you really thought that CM was scum you would have at least tried to poke at me. In that same post ISO 14 bump says:

Otolia's whole "I'm following someone else's logic" is very anti-town. It's not scummy, but anti-town.

and

It's so good in fact I WOULD vote for Sakako but he's at L-2.

The reason I'm super suspicious of Sakako though

Ok, neat. So from that I think it is safe to assume that you think that sakako is scum and that otolia is town. Not voting is kind of meh, but you are just going to use DFL's argument if I attack you on that, so it is pointless.

You're missing the point again. No, anti-town means that he needs to get his game sorted out. I didn't say he was town. People's reads change. You look incredibly town, yet Common Man did not. It's not that difficult.

Next post bump turns around thinking that otolia is the scummiest thing that has walked the earth. He attacks otolia for not listening to reason even though he said in ISO 14 and ISO 12 that it is not scummy (ISO 12 bump says he gets town points for it, ISO 14 he says its not scummy).

I'm failing to see what's wrong with that.
Otolia's reasoning for his vote(s) is awful. That's my opinion. His vote on Olinea was downright awful, but it was more anti-town as I couldn't see him quoting something like that as scum.
Then his vote on Sakako changed things simply because that looked incredibly opportunistic. Oh look, this guy has a high chance of dying, I've expressed no read on him whatsoever before this, LYNCH HIS ASS! NO.

you're voting Sakako PURELY because you dislike No Lynch?

Wowowow. I thought you wanted a sakako lynch? What happened man?

I don't even see where you're getting this from...? I never said I wanted a Sakako lynch, I said I wouldn't be opposed to it. You also seemed to miss the part where I said chkflip, Otolia and Kage are my top scumreads. That implies Sakako is not one of my top scumreads. I didn't want a Sakako lynch because I'd much rather lynch one of those three, preferably Otolia or Kage.

ISO 19:

I didn't really want to lynch Sakako today, but after that AtE defence I would be okay with it. I'm not going to hammer simply because I would much rather lynch Otolia today, or even Kage.

Oh, and in ISO 21:

I know, from your point of view, he's town and you're town.

Directed at otolia, why are you so insistent that otolia is town?

FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW
DO YOU WANT ME TO SLAP YOU IN THE FACE WITH THE POST!?!?

I have yet to hear a good argument of why Otolia is scum. Bump, you have yet to explain why ice would be telling otolia who is town if he were scum, you have yet to explain why otolia would admit to editing the post if doing so would incriminate him. Your jumpiness in reads is truly frightening though.

ICE is a good player. He'd probably do that to make Otolia look ProTown afterwards. I mean, he put in enough effort on a pointless case, he was probably taking notes as he went.
Otolia admits to editing the post. What'd he edit? The part where ICE instructed him on what to post, and how this made him look town.

tl;dr
If sakako flips scum I am lighting bump's arse on fire.

Good for you.

Also, Otolia has yet to answer why Grey's PM said "COMMON MAN" at the top of it.

Aaanyway. I'm tempted to hammer Sakako now purely because we're not lynching Otolia, Kage or chkflip. No one else wants to. There's no point keeping my vote on someone if it's not doing anything.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Did NO ONE see or regard my mini V/LA saying I'd be back by Sunday at the latest? Seriously. That's why people post them so that OH MY GOD USELESS LURKER cannot be used against them when they're not here to do anything. I'm catching up now, but seriously guys...chill. lol.

[Otolia]

Ok, I had enough of this bullshit. Mr Bump doesn't do anything to helpme clear my play, he is misquoting what I said. I'll ask for replacement after the beginning of D2.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Otolia, if you can't handle this, maybe you shouldn't be playing mafia. It's just how the game works. Being frustrated is never fun, but you have to learn to deal with it.

I do not think Otolia is scum. Honestly he strikes me as a very newbynoob with communication problems. Yes he's been aggressive and played badly but anyone who's been in many newbie games should be able to tell the difference.

more reads coming soon.

[Nachomamma8]

One of you grabs a piece of chalk and begins to draw ornate and complicated signs on the ground. He begins muttering various incantations, which of course alarms some of you. He smiles. "Trust me, I know what I'm doing."

A little while later, there is a puff of smoke and a figure appears in front of all of you. He seems slightly confused. "You summoned me?" He asks, looking around at all of your faces. You instantly recognize his voice as the voice over the loudspeaker.

"Yes. We need a count of all supervisors present."

The man blinks a couple of times. "Well, I'm the only one present. But while I'm here, I might as well tally up the destruction count..."

Votecount 1-7:

DarkFlashlight (0) -
Otolia (2) - MrBump, Sakako
Glass (1) - DarlaBlueEyes
MrBump (0) -
Kagetora (0) -
Olinea (0) -
Sakako (3) - Glass, Olinea, chkflip
DarlaBlueEyes (0) -
chkflip (0) -
Not Voting (2): DarkFlashlight, Otolia
No Lynch (1): Kagetora


With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Your mod has returned! Sorry for the unexpected V/LA, all. As an aside, deadline has not changed and is now in two days.

[Otolia]

See DBE, this is exactly why if want to smash your pretty face with a baseball bat. I have played Mafia IRL for a long time before coming here and I know how to deal with frustration. However I can't help but being annoyed by people like you who are arrogant, and look down on me. I don't even understand how someone like you play newbie games. CM left for others reasons but this all town have responsability in his left but nobody his taking its responsability. Playing with newbies isn't the same as playing with SEs or ICs. I dare suggest you to keep your maternalism for you and help newbies to improve their play instead of bashing them like you do with me.

The sole person who has been helping me in order for me to clear my play and solve the case I made is Glass. Mr. Bump obviously won't allow that and you come after a V/LA and you arrogantly try to maternize me. How is this suppose to help anyone ? Really explain me with your almighty wisdom.

I did my best to propose actions but the town didn't want to allow that. I explained the consequences beforehand and so far, I am not seeing any improvement in your various play.

I am SCUM.

[Otolia]

FUUUU, I wanted to claim Vanilla Townie.

[Glass]

Good rebuttal bump, just a few things I want to point out:

First off bump, it is pretty clear that you are voting otolia because you dislike his playstyle instead of thinking that he is scummy.

Otolia has contributed nothing to town, continues to sit on a read given to him by someone FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW is town, can't explain his vote fully, then votes Sakako just because he dislikes No Lynch. Really. He has expressed no read on Sakako really and just wants to lynch him to end the day.

You just said: "I don't like how he is playing. Oh, and he did one scummy thing that I forgot to mention when I voted him".

Common Man was viewed as Newb Town. Everyone just unvoted him in seconds after a very faulty defence, saying he was just a newb. I'm sorry, NO. He looked incredibly scummy to me.

I thought I was I L-2 when I came in?

But you're not. You're his replacement and I generally don't think of them as the same, if that makes sense. Your opening wall screamed "TOWN" at me and then it was obvious that Common WAS just a Newb.

Ok, how are you so sure that otolia isn't just a newb?

Misrepping me.
So hard.
From everyone's point of view, they are town. Everyone tries to look town, right? There's no point in saying, every time, "If you're town from your point of view ______", because that just wastes time. Innocent until proven guilty and all that jazz.

Not a misrep. But your response is okay.

Then his vote on Sakako changed things simply because that looked incredibly opportunistic. Oh look, this guy has a high chance of dying, I've expressed no read on him whatsoever before this, LYNCH HIS ASS! NO.

Sooo.... Why did he unvote? Was he trying to make himself look town by doing that?

You also seemed to miss the part where I said chkflip, Otolia and Kage are my top scumreads. That implies Sakako is not one of my top scumreads.

ISO 14 you said sakako was your top suspect.

Otolia admits to editing the post. What'd he edit? The part where ICE instructed him on what to post, and how this made him look town.

This is pure speculation. You think that he posted that pm just to look town?

Aaanyway. I'm tempted to hammer Sakako now purely because we're not lynching Otolia, Kage or chkflip. No one else wants to. There's no point keeping my vote on someone if it's not doing anything.

Sakako is L-2.

PRE-edit:
did that just happen?
VOTE: otolia

[Glass]

Also, I didn't pull anything out of context. At all. Kage said that he never mentioned hammering, so I showed him where he spoke of hammering.

Kage said he was never close to hammering, not that he never mentioned it.

[DarkFlashlight]

Really? I know Bump, but who else?

Sakako.

Oh...duh.

@DFL: Regarding my addression (which I have thus decided is a word) of Sakako, you'll notice I don't do much addressing of most people unless my name pops up.

Fair enough.

And when I say I can't vote for him it means that if I vote for him then we will end up in a deadlock.

How so? I'm almost definitely going to put my vote back on you, so if Otolia or Darla does the same you're dead, and if neither does, Bump said he would. You're pretty much dead already.

I am SCUM.

FUUUU, I wanted to claim Vanilla Townie.

What.


So now the question is: Is Otolia a fed-up Mafia, or a fed-up troll? It sounds really bad, but I honestly don't know if we can trust lynching him. He went from, "I'm replacing tomorrow" to, "RANDOM UNPROVOKED CLAIM AND COMPLETELY CONSCIOUS CONFESSION. I MEAN—".

Would it be better to lynch Sakako today, then let Otolia replace and see what the replacement does/lynch him tomorrow, or just lynch him now? Like I said, it kinda seems like he's just screwing with us, since he just posted multiple paragraphs about how he doesn't like us.

[Glass]

Is Otolia a fed-up Mafia, or a fed-up troll?

no such thing as a "fed-up troll", but could he be a fed-up townie trying to get lynched just to screw us? Normally I would say no, but otolia seems actually pissed off at town so I could see himself trying to get lynched. I am going to have to think about this for a bit. Another point that I just thought of is that mods don't tend to like it when mafia get replaced due to strategic reasons. Is nacho like that? Again, I don't know. But it is something to think about.
UNVOTE:

[chkflip]

Given the current circumstances, I'd be willing to lynch Otolia now. I see the "I am SCUM, wait FUUU" as a terribly placed joke, but it might be easier for town to perhaps mislynch that slot and deal with Sakako accordingly afterward.

Glass brings up a solid meta-point. This would be the first time I've ever seen someone have a replacement for a week.

[MrBump]

Did Otolia just claim scum? I'm not seeing things, am I?

Glass, when'd I say Sakako was my top suspect? I don't remember saying that o.O
The thing is, though, Common's play reeks of Newbiness and Otolia has said he's played multiple times IRL (at some point he said that). I'm not saying for certain he did any of those things, but based on the rest of his play those ideas seem plausible as to what he would have done as scum, seeing how I'm pretty sure he is scum.

And Otolia. I'm not being arrogant or looking down to you. I've asked you questions, questions and more questions about everything in my case and you've ignored them and just answered with AtE. After a while, it gets frustrating. Don't try and act the victim and put the blame on me, and the rest of town, because we have done NOTHING. I have continuously, over and OVER tried to help your reads and try to understand where you're coming from and over and over again you've just said, "Oh I trust him. I'M GOING TO REPLACE OUT BAAWWW". Yeah, I'm being annoying now because I'M fucking annoyed. Sort your game out.

Aaaaanywho, I suggest we lynch Otolia now for obvious reasons. If we let someone replace in for him, the replacement has a clean slate, and they won't understand Otolia's reasoning and therefore the whole case on Otolia kinda falls to pieces with a replacement. It's based on OTOLIA'S play, not on, say, GreyICE's.

[MrBump]

Also, why do you assume a lynch on Otolia would be a mislynch, chk?

[Glass]

Glass, when'd I say Sakako was my top suspect? I don't remember saying that o.O

Although you did not say the exact wording "sakako is my top suspect" when you went through your "lynst" you said...

I WOULD vote for Sakako but he's at L-2.

And after that you did not vote for anybody. It is pretty clear that sakako was your top suspect. If you did not, why did you not vote for anybody at the end of your post?

The thing is, though, Common's play reeks of Newbiness and Otolia has said he's played multiple times IRL

True, but so did CM and kage.

If we let someone replace in for him, the replacement has a clean slate

No, just no. You do not clean the slate of somebody when they replace in. If a cop has a guilty on someone and they replace out, are they no longer scum? No, they are still scum.

Also, why do you assume a lynch on Otolia would be a mislynch, chk?

Didn't I attack you for essentially the exact same thing a couple posts ago and you said "innocent until proven guilty.... blah blah blah"?

[MrBump]

No, I said from everyone's point of view, they are town. In this case with chkflip, from his point of view, Otolia is a mislynch, therefore town.

Well, obviously my read on Sakako has changed. Who do YOU want to lynch today, Glass?

[Glass]

Oh, and

VOTE: Sakako
I think that otolia is just having a hissy fit. Not to mention that sakako is really trying to deflect suspicion onto anyone he can find it seems, either that or he was trying to get otolia to get his vote back onto olinea so he couldn't get lynched. (he wanted to vote olinea, but that would result in a deadlock? lolwut?)

PRE-edit:
See post for answer.

[chkflip]

You're not putting enough emphasis behind the word perhaps, Bump. Everyone has an air of uncertainty until the flip occurs; no lynch is 100%, we all know this.

[chkflip]

EBWODP: Everyone has an air of uncertainty with the lynch until the flip occurs.

You can scream gut and that you're very certain, but nothing's ever for sure for sure.

[chkflip]

Since

everyone else

has done it, I wanted to be cool and triple post, too.

Sakako is L-1