, RayFrost has been making a large amount of accusations t'ward other people based on the fact that they suspect him or toxic. I still believe that toxic is scummy, but the way Ray's been posting lately...
TwistedSpoon: ETA, Estimated Time of Arrival. He's waiting for a mod post.
David: If you're interested in votecount, there's one on page four. Just count 'em up from there.
Anyways, I'm not quite sure what to make of this right now. I kinda understand the reasons on toxic, but I want to just think it through and not jump to a vote just yet.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
Twistedspoon wrote:
there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum
This is a lie, because if you really believed that you would be voting him and not asking him apathetic questions and voting someone else.
Twisted wrote:
ray's just annoying me, that's all.
It's bad play to attack players because they annoy you. I understand that if players annoy you, it's more difficult to read them, but there's no reason to be making such silly statements as you're making.
David: Toxic is at L-3 currently. Is there a reason you're not voting him?
Spoiler: The Toxic Case - @David
David Xanatos wrote:1: In my eyes a major implication of non-public knowledge in #47. Seemed like an error, tipping his hand the wrong way somewhat.
How do you get that impression? I agree that it sounds rather reactive and defensive, but what other knowledge does it imply?
David wrote:2: (WIF)OMGUS vote, coupled with getting rather defensive, rather fast..
Why is it scummy in this particular instance for him to be voting jindori? Why, as scum, would he have voted jin over Dekes and Twisted? As town, who do you think he would've voted?
David wrote:3: Claiming shenanigans. Apparently trying to get a wagon rolling and denying it with a cry of "but I only mentioned your name once!"...
Can you explain the shenanigans part?[/quote]
I flatly disagree with the Toxic-Ray connection, but I'd like to know why Ray thinks Toxic is town. (Also, Ray, please never use that color of green in my sight again. )
Voided: What's wrong with rushing into a vote? You can always just vote & find out what it brings out afterward. + Is there a specific question you can ask the people voting Twisted as to why he's scummy? It's hard for anyone to help you to understand if you just say you "kinda understand."
Twistedspoon wrote:
there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum
This is a lie, because if you really believed that you would be voting him and not asking him apathetic questions and voting someone else.
something is a lie because I don't believe it myself?
That's interesting logic.
I find toxic scummier at the moment. That's all
KittyMo wrote:
It's bad play to attack players because they annoy you. I understand that if players annoy you, it's more difficult to read them, but there's no reason to be making such silly statements as you're making.
my statements aren't silly
'my logic doesn't revolve around 'cuz I'm town' as another player's does
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good
"Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick"
~Screwtape
Twistedspoon wrote:
there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum
This is a lie, because if you really believed that you would be voting him and not asking him apathetic questions and voting someone else.
something is a lie because I don't believe it myself?
That's interesting logic.
Okay, I don't understand your response to this at all. If telling a lie is defined as the deliberate act of deviating from the truth in speech, then how could you be lying if you stated something you believed to be true?
Twistedspoon wrote:I find toxic scummier at the moment. That's all
KittyMo wrote:
It's bad play to attack players because they annoy you. I understand that if players annoy you, it's more difficult to read them, but there's no reason to be making such silly statements as you're making.
my statements aren't silly
'my logic doesn't revolve around 'cuz I'm town' as another player's does
My point is that saying things like
Spoiler: see here
there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum
If there's no reason for him to do that as town, then that means he is scum, no? Why are you unsure on his alignment if you believe this? If you don't believe this, then why are you saying things you don't mean while yelling at him for appearing to be saying things while appearing to be acting contrary to the things he is saying?
you clearly want other townies to lynch me so you can keep your hands clean after my lynch becuase you know I'll be flipping town, scum
Oldest trick in the scumbook. Looking to keep your hands clean should i flip town and using the two excuses of yours
#1, you seem to be saying you're positive he's scum and then making posts that imply otherwise. The basis of your argument that he is scum also seems to be, to me, that you know that you are town, and so him trying to start a wagon on you means that he is likely scum.
is silly because the only logical explanation for what you are saying is that you are joking around a lot, in which case, why does it annoy you that
he
is joking around a lot?
I apologize in advance if it appears that I've misrepped you; I'm fairly confused.
, RayFrost has been making a large amount of accusations t'ward other people based on the fact that they suspect him or toxic. I still believe that toxic is scummy, but the way Ray's been posting lately...
Wrong. My accusations toward
one person
were regarding the method in which he suspected people. Not who he suspected. If he suspected billy bob joe teh scum de la scum but was doing it in the same way he is now, I'd believe he was scum as well. How people try to reason out their suspicion is a major thing as it is a very good indicator of motivation solidity of reads, sincerity of reads, etc. You're lack of really saying how I'm scummy is cute. Have a cookie.
toxictaipan wrote:
You say that like I was the only one.
"well frosty did it too" *walks off*
yeah, that hardly stops you from being scum now does it?
Mudslinging = scumtell
Worth noting:
Misrepresentation = scumtell
Mudslinging is not what toxic did. He was making a rather good point (if inaccurate) of "he and I did the same things - how am I scummy when he isn't?" Mudslinging would be an attempt at trying to move the topic and suspicion towards me based off of it, which is what he didn't do it. So yeh. He didn't mudsling, and misrepresentation is a scumtell.
Choo-choo on teh spoon.
This is basically what I've been trying to say. I don't understand why when
I
do something, it's scummy, but when
someone else
does the
same thing
(albeit, I may have taken it a little further than RayFrost did), it's not as scummy. Now, before you say it, I know RayFrost had votes and all, but he wasn't put at L-1 and given the same amount of heat as me. I really hate to keep using RayFrost as an example, especially after he so kindly defended me, but he also posted non-public info that only a mafia-aligned player could know (see spoiler). However, I'm the one who showed a, "major implication," of having non-public knowledge. If my
actions
were really that scummy, then RayFrost should (have) be(en) under the same amount of pressure as me, as we did similar things. But because he was never pressured as hard as I was, I can only conclude that I was stuck as the RVS choice when two players were joking around and you had to pick one (fair enough), in which case all I can say is, "You're wasting your time."
Spoiler:
I fail to see how this:
toxictaipan wrote:
RayFrost wrote:
toxictaipan wrote:
RayFrost wrote:
Vote: tylerjarvis
Scum.
o rly?
VOTE: RayFrost
Second scum found.
Your chainsaw was premature, toictaipan. Foolish fool fell fairly into my trap.
Mhm, yeah. Sure.
Dekes wrote:
toxictaipan wrote:
RayFrost wrote:Vote: tylerjarvis
Scum.
o rly?
VOTE: RayFrost
You know more than Ray does?
What'chu gonna do about it even if I do?
is scummier than this:
RayFrost wrote:
Vote: tylerjarvis
Scum.
RayFrost wrote:Also: KittyMo, jindori, and Xanatos are all town.
Discuss.
I don't really know what defense I have, or what you all want me to say. I haven't done anything wrong. I was joking around during the beginning of the game (the point of that being, I thought it would have been obvious I was joking, but apparently not), and you just have to accept that if I were really scum, I wouldn't have come out so willingly or easily provoked.
It's cool, bro. You just haven't mastered the art of making jokes yet. Merely follow my lead, and you too can become a jokemeister. First rule in joking is make it
really
obvious. Like saying someone's town in the rvs. In newbie games, this is particularly effective for getting reads (not just a joke... reaction fishing) s the newbies tend to take you seriously and so you can get reads based upon their reactions. Your reaction was completely null, not scummy as people are putting it. I think the amount of suspicion peope are putting on you is more based upon the fact you were posting in response to them and I wasn't - I could have gotten pressure based upon whether I was able to post, this is an unknown. The fact of the matter is, what you did is not scummy. The fact you are being attacked over it and went completely undefended is evidence of the lack of
any skill at this game at all] town-motivation of at least one of those attacking you. As a result, I find myself believing twistedspoon (the misrepresenter of things and user of ad hom) to be scum. I find the votes on me cute, though.
Twistedspoon wrote:i like how your last 4 posts have been calling for my wagon yet you don't even vote me yourself
Hippocracy there for you
you clearly want other townies to lynch me so you can keep your hands clean after my lynch becuase you know I'll be flipping town, scum
Something I remembered while I was here: there's still a difference between my lack of vote and your initial lack of vote on toxic aside from the fact I forgot to vote in contrast to your actively not voting. You don't have any people voting you (Aside from me). Toxic did.
Oh, and it's "hypocrisy" -_-. I saw someoone put "Hippocracy", which is worse (We are NOT talking about Hippocrates or the Hippocratic Oath, people!)
Rayfrost does bring up a very good point, now that I look over the thread again, at least in regards to toxic's pressure, and because of said unnecessary pressure I will
vote Twistedspoon
. However, Twisted voted for toxic way back in ISO 7 (post 56), so your argument about voting is actually a little switched around, Ray. You've got the wrong information somehow.
Any defense, Twisted?
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
His vote seemed a little suspicious because of the misrepresentation of his vote in post 103. Also sorry I am sorry I haven't been paying much attention to this game I will get into it more soon.
It's a sin to tell a lie.
wins/loses town 0/1 scum 0/0 third party 0/0
ajolin's reasoning isn't misrep. It's just cute. "something's off about rayfrost's posts..." is just the right amount of cryptic not really able to substantiate my claim but wanting to put this vote down post that just brings the newbie scummer (scummer as in mafiascum member) smell wafting to my nose. Null read so far.
)
+ Is there a specific question you can ask the people voting Twisted as to why he's scummy? It's hard for anyone to help you to understand if you just say you "kinda understand."
