Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Kcdaspot]

GreyICE... we clashed?

[GreyICE]

Dropping your accusation of me, Grey? Was it some sort of test?

Yep. You failed.

[Doombunny9]

So tell me what would you expect to provide more 'potentially usefull'-content:

1.
- What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
- Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
- How active are you?

or

2.
What is more usefull:
- voting in such a fashion that timetravel can`t interfere with the votes(scum-proof)
- or so that we can (confirming liars/bringing back confirmed innocents)

They both provide useful content, just in different ways which is why I said both types are fine, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. We can have both of these types of discussion going on at the same time. Using number two as the majority of discussion, how would you expect to catch scum?

Kcda vs GreyICE looks TvT

When did this happen? Or did you mean Amrun vs. kcda? Anyway, when you get back from your V/LA I would like to see more about why you think the people you said are town/scum.

[RangeroftheNorth]

ME: Insert Obligatory Refusal To Answer Pointless Questions Here
GROUP A: Vote: Ranger for refusing to answer pointless questions
GROUP B: Vote: Group A for thinking not answering questions is scummy

There, now that's done with. Can we get on with the game now?

What?
What pointless Questions?

I don't think the questions that Doombunny asked are in any way helpful to finding scum, and thus I see no reason to answer them. That's my general feeling on RQS. I recognize that this feeling isn't terribly common or popular, but it does not reflect on my alignment. In several games I have read, I have seen refusing to answer the questions taken as a scum tell. I see no evidence that this is accurate. I can't cite any personal meta here, as I have yet to complete any games on the site since the practice of RQS became common.

also i'd like to see what he thought of the exchange between amrun and I.

I'm getting a town read on you at the moment, and a slight scum read on Amrun. The exchange between the two of you seems to have been based on very little actual evidence and a fair amount of misunderstandings. It could be ScumAmrun attempting to manufacture a case, but it could very easily just be him misinterpreting remarks.

Looking over Doombunny9's ISO, he has been consistently posting without doing any serious scum hunting. He's pointed out the problems in other people's theories, and has occasionally agreed with them, but he has yet to put forward any original ideas, and he hasn't done anything to help with finding scum.

[RangeroftheNorth]

EBWOP:

Vote: Doombunny9

[GreyICE]

So guys, page 4. Yes?

[RangeroftheNorth]

So guys, page 4. Yes?

What about it exactly? If you have anything you'd like me to address, feel free to state it. Otherwise, please do something useful

[GreyICE]

I'm locating scum.

It's going pretty well.

[Tasky]

LYNCHCOUNT 1.3

LYNCH (0/8): //
NO LYNCH (13): MrTrow, Chronopie, Mist7676, RedCoyote, smargaret, Amrun, Tragedy, GhostWriter, RangeroftheNorth, Doombunny9, Kcdaspot, GreyICE, Exe

Deadline is 30.04.2011, 19:00 CET.

__

(Pseudo-)Votes

RangeroftheNorth (1): Exe
GhostWriter (1): Kcdaspot
Doombunny9 (1): RangeroftheNorth

Not Voting (10): MrTrow, Chronopie, Mist7676, RedCoyote, smargaret, Amrun, Tragedy, GhostWriter, Doombunny9, GreyICE

__

My Inet fell over the other day, so I'm actually piggybacking on a neighbour's wifi. So that makes me v/

LA

.

When will you have full access again?

[Amrun]

If I failed your little test, then why have you failed to address me again?

That's hardly an effective way to scumhunt.

And since I have apparently already failed, care to explain how one would pass a test with a loaded question such as that?

[GreyICE]

Well you could start by doing some form of scumhunting that does not involve picking on kcdaspot for a joke made during the confirmation phase.

I don't see any real signs that even you think that he's scum - just that his actions were anti-town and a bad idea.

[Amrun]

I was out of state at a conference thos weekend, so my attention hasn't been the highest.

I have given a scumlist and questioned my candidates. Not sure what else you would expect me to do, nor do I care.

Ranger of the north, how do you expect to move the game along? Can you rephrase your case on doombunny?

[Amrun]

To clarify, ranger, how is questioning people's theories separate from scumhunting?

[MrTrow]

They both provide useful content, just in different ways which is why I said both types are fine, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. We can have both of these types of discussion going on at the same time. Using number two as the majority of discussion, how would you expect to catch scum?

Ok lets have a look at your questions:
1. The well known policy-timesink-debate, there will never be a clear answer to this (case by case is usually required, learning personal defaults and wasting time are the only things this question provides)
2. direct counterclaimable, easy to prove information: impossible to lie about (where is the information in this one)
3. given details like 'real life' for example, it`s not possible to accurately predict this, 'this player`s default'-will become clear soon enough, and can easily be checked of it seems off.
So if you want to go from here to scumhunting i see only one thing.
You claim not to act on lynch-all-lurkers alone, (avoiding to make more scum-slips after already having made one, isn`t a policy, it`s a scumtell).
So why are you, someone who doesn`t believe in going after lurkers, interressted in how passive someone has to be to be considered a lurker?

VOTE: Doombunny9
Hmm. that was actually more usefull than i expected.

if we`re to asume these questions we`re not intended to out yourself though, how would these questions lead to 'hunting-grounds' faster than the question that`s actually related to this game.
preferably to an extend it justifies:

Question: Does any of this really even matter anymore. I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that there are crazy lynch and night mechanics so there's no need to keep talking about it and going off on tangents. I understand that it may be confusing to some but after three pages, we should be having some discussion about things other than mechanics. So as of right now I'm going to declare this a RQS to (hopefully) get the ball rolling:

to switch between the 2 scenarios

[RangeroftheNorth]

To clarify, ranger, how is questioning people's theories separate from scumhunting?

What I mean by questioning people's theories is that he has occasionally commented on what's going on in the game, but never in any way that indicates that who he finds suspicious. The essence of scum hunting is finding someone's mistakes, but Doombunny doesn't seem to have been looking for mistakes. The nature of his posts has been to state that he sees one person's argument or doesn't see another person's. That's a very effective way to look like you're contributing to the game without actually having to do anything.

[GhostWriter]

Something is irking the hell out of me, and I honestly thought one of you would have picked up on it by now. Doombunny originally says that talking about game related mechanics no longer mattered and that we shouldn't continue talking about it. After pressure, he does some insane backpedaling and is suddenly claiming to have said that he thinks that both the discussion HE inturrepted with fairly pointless questions and the pointless questions themselves were fine. Crazy backpedaling indeed. Take a looksie. I've bolded all my favorite parts.

Question:

Does any of this really even matter anymore.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that there are crazy lynch and night mechanics so there's

no need to keep talking about it

and going off on tangents. I understand that it may be confusing to some but

after three pages, we should be having some discussion about things other than mechanics

. So as of right now I'm going to declare this a

RQS

to (hopefully) get the ball rolling:

@Everyone-What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
How active are you?

Shutting down tactic discussion for a discussion-starter. only purpose this serves is limiting tactic

Erm, where exactly was I trying to stop tactic discussion fully? Tactic and mechanic discussion is fine, just as long as there's enough gameplay discussion and scumhunting to go along with it. At that point in the game people were doing 95% mechanic discussion and 5% scumhunting which is why

I tried to stimulate more game related discussion.

So tell me what would you expect to provide more 'potentially usefull'-content:

1.
- What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
- Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
- How active are you?

or

2.
What is more usefull:
- voting in such a fashion that timetravel can`t interfere with the votes(scum-proof)
- or so that we can (confirming liars/bringing back confirmed innocents)

They both provide useful content

, just in different ways which is why

I said both types are fine

, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. We can have both of these types of discussion going on at the same time. Using number two as the majority of discussion, how would you expect to catch scum?

Of note on this last one is the last line. Apparently, you can catch scum with the first one being used as the majority of discussion.

Also, note that he says that we should have more going on by page 3 of a game with extremely weird mechanics. Before that post, Amrun began to suspect Kcda, Smar had begun pointing at Amrun about interaction with Kcda, Exe was pressuring Kcda, and Trow was pressuring Exe. Seems like a good start to me, whilst discussing game related mechanics. I assume mafia know a bit more of the mechanics than we do and he wanted to keep it that way. The buddying to me he feels like he's been doing also bugs me. Especially when talking about Kcda buddying to Amrun.

-------------------

Honestly, at this point, I've got my list fairly down pact. I'm almost ready to go. Should get the middle organized WAY before enough of you are also ready. Plus, I need to gather some more info for my theories on how the time travel mechanic will work. Thought up some stuff at work that seems plausible. But I need to see all the stages to be certain.

Vote: Lynch

[smargaret]

Do we want to release the top three living names on our lists? I'm worried that if we don't and if scum communicates we could wind up with two obvious townies on the chopping block.

[GhostWriter]

I plan to. Once I decide which one is 3rd and which is 4th. I think I've just about got a feel for a 3-man scum team. 2 of them have been linked, to me, and I've actually already hinted on them in one of my older posts. I just need to do some meta to see if someone has earned the 3rd spot or not. I hate doing meta, so it might take a while. Especially since I intend to go play LoL for a little bit first.

[GreyICE]

Top 3 if we went right now?

1) Chronopie
2) Ranger of the North
3) Amrun

[smargaret]

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

[GreyICE]

Amrun on kcda is not scum on scum, try again smarg. This time with less waffles.

Are me and kcdaspot the only ones who see why Chronopie is going to die unless he explains himself convincingly right quick?

[Exe]

Ghostwriter, we should play LoL together sometime.

Ranger completely avoids my point. I am dead-confident in my top scumsuspect being Ranger.

Doombunny is playing extremely passively, though that's basically already been brought up. He'll be high on my list.
Kcd still just reads gut-scummy to me.
Amrun seems pretty much identical to her last game with me, in which I called her as scum. I need to check her meta to see if she always plays the same, though.
Still waiting on Chrono to answer where he got such a specific scum-team assumption. Also waiting on Chrono to actually post more than 1 post.

Compared to a previous experience with Ghostwriter, this GW seems pretty much obvtown.
GreyICE, question: are you trying a different strategy than normal, in your opinion?

P-Edit: GreyICE, are you perhaps referring to Chrono's super-assumptions regarding the scumteam?

[Exe]

Also, I have to agree that Kcd and Amrun are most likely not scum together. I don't see their interaction as scum-v-scum.

[Tragedy]

@Exe: Out of simple curiosity, how does GhostWriter look "obviously town"?

[Amrun]

The irony here is immense. I can't say more than that.

However, I've re-read doombunny and I can see that case.

I'd like to see ranger's, kcda's, and doombunny's lists asap.

P-edit: Grey, you're ridiculous. Try explaining. Also, your first statement contradicts with your second statement.

Exe: I actually do play mostly the same. Consider in that game, everyone was so convinced I was town until I threw my advantage away in a tactical power play on purpose and still never got executed. You're running dangerously close to calling looking town a scumtell. Ironically, I have been better in my scum games than in my town games... My completed town games are earlier and therefore not as reliable, but knock yourself out.