Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[Regfan]

Haylen, link me to a mini game which includes one of these roles and then I'd consider unvoting:
Non-Sane Cops, Blanks/Quacks, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Scum Masons, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.

[bgg1996]

As well as a weak doctor and sledgehammer? (Not to mention jailkeeper, if there is one)
Especially if I was right and the weak doctor role did what magnetic said.

[Haylen]

Liking how people jumped on me for that without knowing how normal setups are reviewed lolz. So at least one of Bgg, Regfan and Scott are scum.

I'm going to carry on by saying that there is a difference in balance and normality between a One Shot role and a continuous role. Reviewers are more likely to be more lenient when the role is a one shot.

Also, are either of you a Hoopla alt?

[Haylen]

You want me to search through every game on site to find that? Jeeze, talk about setting impossible aims. Ok, I'll do it. *shrugs*

[Haylen]

If you've suddenly become a normal boff, answer me this: If survivor is a non-normal role, then why is a person's role changed to Neutral Survivor when they have been modkilled?

[Haylen]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=16260 <-- scum masons/lovers. Scum was allowed to talk during the day.

[Regfan]

You want me to search through every game on site to find that? Jeeze, talk about setting impossible aims. Ok, I'll do it. *shrugs*

There's a difference between leniancy and putting a role in the game which they strickly said cannot be in the game.

If you've suddenly become a normal boff, answer me this: If survivor is a non-normal role, then why is a person's role changed to Neutral Survivor when they have been modkilled?

No, but you said you have experience when it comes to mini-normals via hosting some.

Liking how people jumped on me for that without knowing how normal setups are reviewed lolz. So at least one of Bgg, Regfan and Scott are scum.

I'm going to carry on by saying that there is a difference in balance and normality between a One Shot role and a continuous role. Reviewers are more likely to be more lenient when the role is a one shot.

Also, are either of you a Hoopla alt?

Because when you become modkilled the mod wants to give you no possible chance to win the game, a dead survivor has no chance of winning the game.

[Regfan]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=16260 <-- scum masons/lovers. Scum was allowed to talk during the day.

I spectated that entire game, and it's not a mini normal. Nice try.

[Haylen]

It's a large normal. Same principles apply.

[Regfan]

It's a large normal. Same principles apply.

"# Closed Normal Games should satisfy the following rules: "

That game wasn't a closed Normal.

[Haylen]

I'll be back in a bit.

[bgg1996]

If I'm not mistaken, Mini 851 had not only a cult leader, but also a vigilante, and serial killer. That's my cue to

unvote

. Coincidently, I believe Haylen was in that game. And won.

[Regfan]

If I'm not mistaken, Mini 851 had not only a cult leader, but also a vigilante, and serial killer. That's my cue to

unvote

. Coincidently, I believe Haylen was in that game. And won.

It was also over a year and a half ago.

[bgg1996]

So?

[Regfan]

So likelyhood states the rules are much more recent then that.

I'll look into it, but I'm close to certain that the wiki is very updated on what is/isn't allowed in the game.

[Scott Brosius]

If I'm not mistaken, Mini 851 had not only a cult leader, but also a vigilante, and serial killer. That's my cue to

unvote

. Coincidently, I believe Haylen was in that game. And won.

The problem with it being 1.5 years is that game was before normals had mandatory checks for balance and normality. So you could get away with a lot more. Even if there is some leeway with a non-normal role, we already had one flip of a non-normal role with sledgehammer.

The whole neutral survivor defense is unbelievably weak. Also the immediate, WELL I GUESS THE 3 PEOPLE VOTING FOR ME ARE INSTANTLY SCUMMY NOW attempt to discredit.

Normal rules last modified two weeks ago.

[subgenius]

Votes speak louder than weak deadline NL avoiding promises.

I don't disagree with that, and if we had more time and days, I'd be willing to wait until more votes were cast to comment on them. Unfortunately, this might be our last day, and we are nearing the deadline, so I had to act earlier.

Also the whole x scum are in this group of people argument is flawed. At this point I can take any group of 2-4 people and probably find scum in it. So it doesn't really have value.

I happen to think breaking off a set of players that likely contains scum, eliminating as many as possible, and picking one or two out who are most likely to be scum could be pretty effective.

This is a complete misrepresntation of the situation at hand, and something I expected much better from you. Lets take a look at the actual facts:

April 4th I vote for CryMe due to him being my strongest suspect at the time.
April 6th I state agreement and disagreement with portions of the case against CryMe
April 6th I state I still believe River is mafia, just not with as much strength as I did in the past, state I have no issue voting him at all.
April 6th I state reads from strongest to weakest with CryMe being the highest of any alive player.
April 13th I state my full list of reads with CryMe as my strongest mafia read.
April 21st I reaffirm confidence in a CryMe potential lynch.

Fair enough, I should have read more carefully. I was basing my opinion of my recollection of you being the most vocally doubtful of the case on CMAR when I was trying to push the case on him during D2. Clearly I didn't read as far back or as carefully as I should have.

Lol what? You guys do realise that mods are allowed to put one or two non-normal roles in a game? I had a Town Godfather in the large normal that I ran, and I think some other weird role too.

GF is an explicitly normal role, though, and while the normal rules do allow for one

unusual

role, they do not allow for non-normal roles.

New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

Redirection is not in this list.

Further, I find Haylen's method of defense suspicious. If her role was valid, I would expect her to be legitimately surprised as well as irritated with the mod for assigning a role that could potentially put so much heat on her. Instead, her first reaction is to explain why the role makes sense based on her understanding of normal rules, which is pretty clearly incomplete, which would explain why she claimed redirector in the first place.

vote: Haylen

[Maxous]

Granted I am not familiar with the rules and requirememnts for this game but lynching somebody due to set-up speculation is not a good idea at all.(maybe open games but not normal ones).
And with CMAR's claim it's not as if her claim is saving her from a lynch. I highly doubt both of them are town with such claims. I personally think it is feasible neither of them are but that's just me.

Liking how people jumped on me for that without knowing how normal setups are reviewed lolz. So at least one of Bgg, Regfan and Scott are scum.

Why and who? (In your opinion)

Further, I find Haylen's method of defense suspicious. If her role was valid, I would expect her to be legitimately surprised as well as irritated with the mod for assigning a role that could potentially put so much heat on her. Instead,

her first reaction is to explain why the role makes sense based on her understanding of normal rules

, which is pretty clearly incomplete, which would explain why she claimed redirector in the first place.

vote: Haylen

I raised an eyebrow at this vote..
She explained why her role can be in the game, why should she be outraged and surprised if she moderated a game that had a couple of these 'unusual' or whatever roles?

[Regfan]

Granted I am not familiar with the rules and requirememnts for this game but lynching somebody due to set-up speculation is not a good idea at all.(maybe open games but not normal ones).

It's not setup speculation it's pretty much black and white of what roles can be and can't be in the setup.

She explained why her role can be in the game, why should she be outraged and surprised if she moderated a game that had a couple of these 'unusual' or whatever roles?

No, she didn't. She attempted to link games that weren't mini normals to defend herself with.

[subgenius]

She explained why her role can be in the game, why should she be outraged and surprised if she moderated a game that had a couple of these 'unusual' or whatever roles?

She cited the inclusion of GF, which is explicitly mentioned as a normal role to validate her claim of redirector, which is explicitly non-normal. Mentioning a mini-normal with a GF does nothing to make her claim more believable. If she can remember what the other roles are and show that they were outside the normal rules of the time, I would be willing to listen.

I think a townie's natural reaction to someone pointing out that their claim is contrary to the rules of the game would be to read the rules, recognize that they've been somewhat screwed over by the mod, and protest that regardless of the clearly stated rules, he or she did in fact receive that role. Instead, Haylen is trying to argue that her role is allowable without giving any compelling evidence. I see her putting more effort into showing that her claimed role is feasible than that she actually received that role. I think this is because she fake claimed and she has a bit of pride on the line if she's lynched on the basis of a foolish role choice.

[bgg1996]

vote:Haylen

With both a claim that hasn't been in mini normals since #209, and already both a weak doctor and sledgehammer, it's not really likely that Haylen is telling the truth, especially with that defense.

[Haylen]

No Regfan. They were LARGE NORMALS. As it's a NORMAL game, the same principles of mini NORMAL'S still apply. They go through the same rigorous reviewing as mini normals do. The fact that you're saying large normals and mini normals are different in this way is probably one of the stupidest things I've seen in a game for a whole. And I mostly mod newbie games.

If her role was valid, I would expect her to be legitimately surprised as well as irritated with the mod for assigning a role that could potentially put so much heat on her.

I enjoy heat. Example: A couple of months ago, I replaced into a Jungle republic game; it was a 1 mafia, 3 town and 2 werewolves situation. Guess which slot I replaced into? It was fun. I like being attacked. I find it difficult to be interested in games where I'm not being attacked regardless of my role. I also drew the role I drew for this game; I don't give a crap what setup is in use. I'd have lol'd so hard if I'd got a role like cult. Why? I'm not exactly normal, mischief like this amuses me greatly. Also, if I was scum, I would have looked into what roles I could feasibly fakeclaim before doing it.

Loving how Bgg is ignoring the fact that a NORMAL game with SCUM MASONS has just finished.

I explained why and who Maxeous >_> The people voting me over this stupid thing without looking at what I'm frigging saying.

Gf is a normal role but last time I checked Town GF is not.

[subgenius]

What's a town GF? A miller? If so, those are normal.

Loving how Bgg is ignoring the fact that a NORMAL game with SCUM MASONS has just finished.

Quote from the rules post of that game:

This game is being run as a Large Open set-up.

That was not a normal closed game.

[Haylen]

That role was no-reveal, Subgenius. People weren't told what a Town Godfather was when it flipped. It was a miller-Vig. No-reveal roles are prohibited too.

I need a break. I'm going to go to sleep and stop thinking of the fucking stupidity of others playing this game because it's really beginning to piss me off. Greatly.

[subgenius]

That role was no-reveal, Subgenius. People weren't told what a Town Godfather was when it flipped. It was a miller-Vig. No-reveal roles are prohibited too.

That role is still normal, since it is a combination of normal functions. False reveals are prohibited, but not explaining unusual roles is not. After reading the setup that you were talking about (Large Normal 109), it does not appear to break any normal rules. It contained two unusual roles (town GF and super saint), and neither of these roles had any prohibited functions.