Newbie 1079: Feed the Lynch Mob (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

Seriously man, when did we go from 'hero' to 'nacho' on zero commentary?

AAARRRGGGGGHHHH THIS TOWN THIS TOWN.

Imma gonna go beat my head against a wall now.

[GreyICE]

No you know what? Whatever.

Screw Nacho, if he gets quicklynched, well, it's a newbie game, and he should know the risks. I still can't help screaming at how he ALWAYS sits here and waits FOREVER to answer anything. Newbies will be scummy as heck given any time, and I think he's exploiting that.

Vote: Nacho

Whatever.

So fine with a hammer landing right now.

Nacho... if you're town, this is why activity is nice, mmmkay?

[tarsonisocelot]

Not L-1, hero unvoted.

I'm all for a nacho lynch, but I want to hear some stuff from tars beforehand at least.

I'm claiming VI for most of that on account of at the start of this I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to do, particularly in RVS. I find it hard to read fights between players like Nacho and Hero.

Traveller's jokes have been off-putting, I think Hero described the reasons why best in his ISO#31 - that's the kind of thing I meant by tone.

On the thil13 story, the continual non-answering then answering with a non-answer was a big part of my read on him going from null to suspicious to scum. His posts since then have largely said "I don't care about this game" - is that supposed to make me think town?

I'm trying to be less derailing - trolling and tangents here are much less part of this forum than the one I got linked from forum I got linked to here from so I'm now checking through my posts for relevance before submitting.
If you have any advice on reading fights between experienced players, please share it. Right now they're confusing. Nacho seems the least towniest of Nacho and Hero at present, but not nearly as suspicious as thil13.

[tarsonisocelot]

lol expert scum hunter ftw

tars, where are thou?

I'm here.

Why did you just change your vote to Nacho?

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.07

Nachomamma8 (3) - thil13, pandabear, GreyICE

Herodotus (1) - Nachomamma8
tarsonisocelot (1) - Glass
thil13 (1) - tarsonisocelot

Not Voting (1) - Herodotus

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, May 1, 2011, at 11:59 PM EDT (UTC-4).[/area]

[Nachomamma8]

Will be back, tomorrow.

[Glass]

Seriously man, when did we go from 'hero' to 'nacho' on zero commentary?

AAARRRGGGGGHHHH THIS TOWN THIS TOWN.

Imma gonna go beat my head against a wall now.

QFT

it is time to claim, nacho.

[Herodotus]

Everyone has voted for Nacho8 at some point, and I'm not sure who would be bussing. That has me willing to wait to hear more before the day ends. Nacho answering Grey's questions would be a start.

Really hero? You think that all those votes had the intention of lynching nacho? Distancing is very common and it is not strange at all for someone to vote their scumbuddy especially if they can easily get away with changing their votes/reads. You of course should know this.

I didn't mean it made me want to not lynch him, just that I thought there might be something to gain from delaying.

[GreyICE]

More helpful comments to help us make a decision.

Will be back, tomorrow.

I swear unto god if those are not the bestest answers ever, it will just be a wall of me screaming "HAMMER"

[Herodotus]

You think I'm going to need encouragement?

[GreyICE]

You think I'm going to need encouragement?

Oh right, you're not currently voting.

It's Thil, the person whose first post in like a week was attacking you for not making a case, and panda who was voting for you before hopping.

This town is so strange, but I'm not letting Nacho off the hook for a bunch of newbies being odd. He can and should be doing more than this, and the way he hits prod range every single time CANNOT be a total coincidence.

[Glass]

So is panda going to explain...?

[Equinox]

Searching for a replacement for thil13...

[GreyICE]

*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*

[GreyICE]

Hero, Glass,
It's a conspiracy.
There's two scumteams
The Nacho-Tars werewolf team
And the Panda-Thil Mafia team

They're just playing with us.

[Equinox]

Voidedmafia replaces thil13! Thank you!

[Glass]

That was quick. We should wait for voided to catch up before hammering and have panda explain and get nacho to claim before he gets hammered.
/wait patiently

[Voidedmafia]

Don't ask me where Thil went, I have no clue myself -_-.

Anyways, hiya Grey! Should go better with us here, eh?

Nacho, you've got two games that need your attention, including this one. You need ta step up!

I've watched this thread since it was on page 5, but I'll have to read again to make sure what I've thought as a neutral observer fits with what I'll think of as an actual participant.

Given that Nacho seems to be the lynch of the day, I won't unvote just yet. However, how he responds to all the questions from all of you who have asked will also factor into that.

[Herodotus]

Could you tell us what you thought as a neutral observer first?

[Voidedmafia]

...and then there's the problem that I can't remember what I thought while I was watching -_-

Well, I mean, I can't go into a whole lot of detail about it, as that will come with a proper re-read, but just going off of what I remember, I thought Grey was town, Glass is townish, and everyone else is null until I can go over it again.

It's not a whole lot for a first content-full post, I know, but like I said, better reads will come once I can look this over again. Probably during N2, if Nacho gets lynched before the IRL week's up.

[Nachomamma8]

Internet's probably going to be shut off in a few, so sorry if this post is frenzied and rushed and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'll try to fix it tomorrow.

1. Don't remember and don't care; arbitrary restrictions like lynch must happen "during the last three days of the deadline" or "after the ninth day" are silly.
2. I have improved my reads. I think it's most likely Thil or Panda (though I don't claim to be certain), and we have enough breathing room to lynch them both. Or maybe an investigation will help.

1. You don't have to set arbitrary restrictions to tell if the day's ending too early or not. But days should never go Case --> Response --> Lynch.
2. You have enough breathing room to lynch them both if I flip scum. And relying on investigations is pretty naive.

Sn1 was acting scummy enough during pages 1-3/4 that I would have started a wagon if one didn't already exist. Since he was at L-1, instead I just posted my reasons for finding him scummy to get my most important thoughts out and to let him respond. I did have some confidence that he was scum. I was wrong, and I knew I might be wrong.
When I decided he was town, I said so, and I started talking more about others.
Before I finished reading, the degree of my scumread on Sn1pe was stronger than the degree of any scumread I had after I finished reading. I know that's unusual, but it's the reason I didn't have a case to make.

Fair enough.
And I'm assuming the townread you got on him on pages 5 and 6 was stronger than the scumread you got from the first four pages, and thus there was no need for him to answer your questions anymore.

I wasn't going to fake certainty that my top two scumreads were the scumteam or that there wasn't some small chance I was wrong about Sn1 being town when I wasn't really confident about either of those ideas.

It's not that you didn't fake certainty; it's that you had to announce that your reads were weak. When you don't downplay your own reads by announcing they're weak like that, you let other people interpret them.
I find it scummy because it's losing all responsibility for the lynch, which is what it seemed you were trying to do when defending Snipe, and when you went so hard after the people on the wagon the next day.

I was looking for an alternative. See post 159 for a specific example.
I'm not the Decider, I'm only one townie among 75.
Sn1 responded to you when you asked him about reads and you voted him; it's possible he would have responded to me (like an unplanned bad-cop, good-cop).

Okay, fair enough.

Ok, the next time I'm mafia I'll make a superweak accusation against every experienced player in my first post then accuse them of sneaky, clandestine OMGUS if they ever vote me. Thanks for the strategy tip.
But seriously, you weren't making any type of case against me, just tossing mud over a null-tell.

I'll grab links from a couple of my games later.
But I know I've dominated as scum before by completely neutering the people likely to suspect me by attacking them first, which weakens the attack when it does come.

Anyone who is scum is a better lynch than Sn1. You seem to be suggesting that I should have sheeped with the easiest counterwagon I could find. The votecounts suggest that would have been Panda. But unless Panda was scum there would be basically no point to my joining his wagon. If I had no other choice I would probably have lynched Panda instead of Sn1. Panda looked scummier than Sn1, though I felt there was some potential for information from the Sn1 wagon; but you looked scummier than Panda.

No, I'm not saying go for the easiest counterwagon, and you know that.
It's better to find a happy medium of a lynchable person who is likelier scum.

1. You had time to respond, you simply didn't, and that's not my fault.
2. Ever played in a marathon game? There was plenty of time for everyone to say whether they agreed.
3. There wasn't any room for expansion. I posted everything I could think of regarding you, from the towntell at the beginning of the game to an analysis of your most recent post. Barring any more posts from you, there was nothing more to say.

1. Had I responded, we most likely would've engaged in an epic wallbattle. Four days before deadline. Confusion results, rocks fall, everybody dies.
2. Yes. But this is most definitely NOT anything close to a marathon game and thus time works a hell of a lot differently.
3. Okay, fair enough.

If he had hammered without reading, we'd have known he was scum.

No.

He didn't say that until after I asked him, did he? For all I knew, he might have only ISO'ed you.

Fair enough.

OK, you got me. Sn1pe and I are buddies. No. This is absurd. Where do you think I was going? What's supposed to grow from the seed? Everyone knows that Sn1 and I couldn't have been buddies; there's nothing scummy about my basically saying "you could have determined that from how I played yesterday."

You're establishing your own scum behavior. If you start protecting someone scummy who is suspected to be your partner and anyone remembers that statement, they think "Hmmm... would he really protect his partner like that as scum since he said that he wouldn't earlier? Or is that what he wants us to think...?"
Then a chicken lays a bunch of WIFOMggs which eventually hatch into WIFOMkens whose heads are cut off and the good part shipped to some mom and pop's restaurant in South Carolina and the beak and legs shipped to McDonalds to go into chicken nuggets that some 25 year old businesswoman will choke on and get a million dollar sentiment from.

Without new posts from you, I didn't have anything new to add. My reasons for voting you I had already written.
And this argument could be turned back on you. You didn't expand on your accusation of Sn1pe. In fact, you never built a case on him.

True and true.
The only thing that distinguishes me from you is the timing, I suppose.

Aren't you talking about Day 2? I had no intention of looking for a partner for you on Day 1.

Confused, will go back later.

Thank you for the WIFOM.

Please keep in mind what this was a response to.

Posting this bit.

[GreyICE]

OT: Hi Voided! This town is a lot less active than our town, but in fairness we had the bestest newbie town ever (not exaggerating, every non-SnowJordan played quite well).

ON TOPIC: No answers, not unvoting. *sigh* I'll wait for the internet to come back up, and VoidedMafia doing a catchup.

Hero, I'd prefer to wait for voided, but I leave the hammer entirely up to you. Because if you're scum, it's passed my 'not giving a shit' limit, I'm not voting for you outside of LyLo.

[tarsonisocelot]

UNVOTE: thil13
Awaiting voided post, going to study for last midsem now.

[pandabear]

alright guys, i'm FINALLY done with finals...
will be doing what I can to try and be more active
so I guess we should wait for all of the replacements opinions?

Nacho seems like he has given in as being scum lol

[Herodotus]

Anyone who is scum is a better lynch than Sn1. You seem to be suggesting that I should have sheeped with the easiest counterwagon I could find. The votecounts suggest that would have been Panda. But unless Panda was scum there would be basically no point to my joining his wagon. If I had no other choice I would probably have lynched Panda instead of Sn1. Panda looked scummier than Sn1, though I felt there was some potential for information from the Sn1 wagon; but you looked scummier than Panda.

No, I'm not saying go for the easiest counterwagon, and you know that.
It's better to find a happy medium of a lynchable person who is likelier scum.

Wait, so you voted someone you didn't think you could get lynched because you thought I was a better lynch than Snipe? Why didn't you try to get someone lynched who you didn't feel was as town as Snipe, but likelier to get lynched?

Putting these together, it looks like you're suggesting that you were unlynchable.
Also, lynching a townie other than Sn1 would not have been any improvement over lynching Sn1.
Also, removing the momentum for a Sn1 lynch was a task I wasn't sure could be done, and if I couldn't do that, I could still draw everyone's attention to you.

1. You had time to respond, you simply didn't, and that's not my fault.
2. Ever played in a marathon game? There was plenty of time for everyone to say whether they agreed.
3. There wasn't any room for expansion. I posted everything I could think of regarding you, from the towntell at the beginning of the game to an analysis of your most recent post. Barring any more posts from you, there was nothing more to say.

1. Had I responded, we most likely would've engaged in an epic wallbattle. Four days before deadline. Confusion results, rocks fall, everybody dies.

Was that the reason you didn't respond?
Also, you need to explain this, because "Confusion results, rocks fall, everybody dies." just sounds like unfounded doomsaying. Who would be confused? How would negative consequences result? Who would die? If you happen to be familiar with the source of "rocks fall; everyone dies" then you should know that it's just hand-waving.

Thank you for the WIFOM.

Please keep in mind what this was a response to.

Okay, that's fair. I think it was the way you stated it that made it come across as a WIFOM argument.

Your low degree of presence here is annoying, especially as there have been times when you've spent time posting in other threads and not this one. If you don't catch up soon, I'm going to hammer without waiting for a claim.