Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[danakillsu]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about? Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum? You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hmm, was a bit suspicious of CDB's confirm vote on Peregrine, but I like the way he explained himself. I'm willing to see what Peregrine does when the discussion turns his way.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

[PeregrineV]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about? Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum? You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

This:
1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

This:
Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

and this:
I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

If I thought you were scum, you'd feel the wrath of my mighty vote. So, no, I don't think that yet, but trust his opinions listed above.
But, please expand more on why he is wrong. Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

[PeregrineV]

Hmm, was a bit suspicious of CDB's confirm vote on Peregrine, but I like the way he explained himself. I'm willing to see what Peregrine does when the discussion turns his way.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

I like the way you liked the way he explained himself.

I think Peregrine is legit scummy, though. I quoted the sentence I did because it's worded from the perspective of scum who are afraid of having discussion turn to them. Town don't need to be afraid of that.

[ChannelDelibird]

I assumed that the post above was pending an EBWOP, seeing as you forgot to type your point.

[danakillsu]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about? Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum? You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

This:
1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

This:
Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

and this:
I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

I realize that you think RC's side of the argument is better than mine. But you didn't answer my question, which is whether you being town in fact MEANS you have to believe I'm scum via RC's arguments. Because that is literally what you were saying in that post.

If I thought you were scum, you'd feel the wrath of my mighty vote. So, no, I don't think that yet, but trust his opinions listed above.
But, please expand more on why he is wrong. Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

Ironically, you choose to use the word trust despite you saying that you did not trust anyone. But even more importantly, THAT LAST SENTENCE IS EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why, you ask?
1) Because even if I could prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong, it wouldn't make him scum.
2) I don't particularly want anyone voting RC at this juncture.
3) I REALLY don't want to try to convince my top scumread to vote anyone (except himself, if that's allowed). You being convinced and voting someone would only make me think they were actually town.

[PeregrineV]

I assumed that the post above was pending an EBWOP, seeing as you forgot to type your point.

Note: I generally avoid post wars this early in the game, as I find them fairly pointless. But, luckily, I got time while my hot pocket cooks.

My point was that

I

liked the way

he

liked the way you explained yourself. Your explaination being:

(1)I think Peregrine is legit scummy, though. (2)I quoted the sentence I did because it's worded from the perspective of scum who are afraid of having discussion turn to them. (3)Town don't need to be afraid of that.

To break down how you explained yourself:

1. Opinion.
2. Opinion.
3. Opinion.

So, Mastermind of Sin liked your opinions. I liked how he liked it.

Hope this helps.

[MarchHare]

@MarchHare: You said you've played with him before, and didn't like his playstyle. Was he fluffy and directionless then?

No, it was just narrow minded and generally bad. He was town in that game.

[PeregrineV]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about?

Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum?

You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

This:
1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

This:
Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

and this:
I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

I realize that you think RC's side of the argument is better than mine.

But you didn't answer my question, which is whether you being town in fact MEANS you have to believe I'm scum

via RC's arguments. Because that is literally what you were saying in that post.

If I thought you were scum, you'd feel the wrath of my mighty vote. So, no, I don't think that yet,

but trust his opinions listed above.
But, please expand more on why he is wrong. Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

Ironically, you choose to use the word trust despite you saying that you did not trust anyone. But even more importantly, THAT LAST SENTENCE IS EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why, you ask?
1) Because even if I could prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong, it wouldn't make him scum.
2) I don't particularly want anyone voting RC at this juncture.
3) I REALLY don't want to try to convince my top scumread to vote anyone (except himself, if that's allowed). You being convinced and voting someone would only make me think they were actually town.

Blue highlights for your enjoyment.

And more answers from out of the

blue

:

Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

Ironically, you choose to use the word trust despite you saying that you did not trust anyone. But even more importantly, THAT LAST SENTENCE IS EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why, you ask?

Why?

1) Because even if I could prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong, it wouldn't make him scum.

How does this make the sentence scummy?

2) I don't particularly want anyone voting RC at this juncture.

Why not?

3) I REALLY don't want to try to convince my top scumread to vote anyone (except himself, if that's allowed). You being convinced and voting someone would only make me think they were actually town.

Still not seeing how that makes the sentence scummy. After all, you are posting all this crap to try to get people to agree with you. If you can get me to agree with you, I think you'd be very happy.

[ReaperCharlie]

MoS, can you please read the thread and give us some reads? Your posts have been generally contentless thus far.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ PV: If it's a quote, put quote tags around it, and attribute the quotes properly. Nobody wants to try to discern things you've said vs. things others have said, and nobody likes your pretty colors.

P.S. Succinctness is pro-town.

[danakillsu]

@ PeregrineV
I don't want anyone voting RC because I don't believe he's scum.
Voting RC is not "agreeing with me". It's actually doing the opposite.
How what I've said makes your sentence scummy would, I think, be plain to see. If you say "Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again." and convincing you to vote him is not something I want to do, you're misrepping my purposes. If you're my top scum candidate, you're trying to get me to do something scummy by persuading you to vote someone else, which has no pro-town motivation. And back to this:

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

This is DEFINITELY saying that you have to believe I'm scum. Let's look at what happened here.
1) ReaperCharlie calls me scum, partially because of the way in which I called you scum.
2) I tell him that his points aren't going to stick because they don't use logic. Context will pretty clearly tell you that I'm saying his efforts to make me look like SCUM are not going to work.
3) You say why you're inclined to take his side. Your main reason is the town role you say you've been given. You say OTHERS MAY DO THE SAME, AND IF SO, THAT

IT MAY STICK

. In other words, if people take the same path you have, they will believe RC's arguments and think that I'm scum. I dare you to try to retcon your way out of that one, cause your words are pretty plain to see. So I ask you again: What about you being town and others being town WOULD make you AND them believe that RC is right and I am scum?

[danakillsu]

@mod

Votecount, please.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ PeregrineV

I don't want anyone voting RC

because I don't believe he's scum.
Voting RC is not "agreeing with me". It's actually doing the opposite.
How what I've said makes your sentence scummy would, I think, be plain to see. If you say "Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again." and convincing you to vote him is not something I want to do, you're misrepping my purposes. If you're my top scum candidate, you're trying to get me to do something scummy by persuading you to vote someone else, which has no pro-town motivation. And back to this:

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

This is DEFINITELY saying that you have to believe

I'm scum.

Let's look at what happened here.
1) ReaperCharlie calls me scum, partially because of the way in which I called you scum.
2) I tell him that his points aren't going to stick because they don't use logic. Context will pretty clearly tell you that I'm saying his efforts to make me look like SCUM are not going to work.
3) You say why you're inclined to take his side. Your main reason is the town role you say you've been given. You say OTHERS MAY DO THE SAME, AND IF SO, THAT

IT MAY STICK

. In other words, if people take the same path you have, they will believe RC's arguments and think that

I'm scum.

I dare you to try to retcon your way out of that one, cause your words are pretty plain to see. So I ask you again: What about you being town and others being town WOULD make you AND them believe that RC is right and

I am scum

?

FTFY

[danakillsu]

@ ReaperCharlie
It's what you've been doing all game, why stop now?

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, it's never been so cheeky and obvious before, but you DO admit you're scum with relatively the same frequency throughout all your posts, in one form or another.

[PeregrineV]

@ PeregrineV
I don't want anyone voting RC because I don't believe he's scum.
Voting RC is not "agreeing with me". It's actually doing the opposite.
How what I've said makes your sentence scummy would, I think, be plain to see.

No it's not.

If you say "Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again." and convincing you to vote him is not something I want to do, you're misrepping my purposes.

Ok, now I get it after re-reading. You want me to think he is wrong in your argument, but not vote for him because he's not scum. In that case it was a misunderstanding. But, even after understanding, I'm not getting why you would care what I think if I'm scum. Get it?

If you're my top scum candidate, you're trying to get me to do something scummy by persuading you to vote someone else, which has no pro-town motivation.

Ok, I'm trying to get you to do something scummy by being persuaded by you to vote someone else? So, if you do persaude me, you become scum?
Do you see how this doesn't make sense when one employs common sense?

And back to this:

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

This is DEFINITELY saying that you have to believe I'm scum. Let's look at what happened here.
1) ReaperCharlie calls me scum, partially because of the way in which I called you scum.
2) I tell him that his points aren't going to stick because they don't use logic. Context will pretty clearly tell you that I'm saying his efforts to make me look like SCUM are not going to work.
3) You say why you're inclined to take his side. Your main reason is the town role you say you've been given. You say OTHERS MAY DO THE SAME, AND IF SO, THAT

IT MAY STICK

. In other words, if people take the same path you have, they will believe RC's arguments and think that I'm scum. I dare you to try to retcon your way out of that one, cause your words are pretty plain to see. So I ask you again: What about you being town and others being town WOULD make you AND them believe that RC is right and I am scum?

It was not saying that I beleive you to be scum, but after all the "hard work" you've put into your non-case on me, and then arguing your non-case with another town member (according to you), and then arguing it even more with me, I think you have changed my mind.
1) Yes he did. I saw that. Bad RC. :handslap:
2) Your opinion, but I see why you would want others to ignore his efforts.
3) I was actually referring to only RC's arguments that I posted the points to, about your case being weak on me. But, I can see how you would be worried about being perceived as scum, as I think that is the whole point of you post here.
What is retcon?
Yes, I have been using smaller words in order to help some readers.
Once again, I was pointing out the portions of his argument about the case being weak on me. I can repost them, but others can scroll up or page over to see: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p3017844

Ok, I did link it...

[danakillsu]

Apparently, I've gotten through to you on some level as to why I think you're scum and why you shouldn't think I am even if you're not scum. As to the rest of the points, I honestly don't feel like discussing your issues with them any more. I think what they say to others is really what matters, and I think most others will get them. To answer your questions in a basic way:
Yes, of course I get it. That's exactly my point. You're trying to get me to persuade you to do stuff, when I don't really care who you vote for unless it's yourself. I'm pretty sure you're scum.

No, believe me, it makes sense. You're trying to get me to contradict myself by calling you scum and then trying to get you to vote someone. That, in itself, is scummy.

Retcon (I believe) stands for Retroactively Contradict. It just means you can't change what you already said without looking even scummier.

The end of your post shows your intentions in this conversation very clearly. If simply arguing with you was going to make me scummy in your eyes regardless, then you were out to get me, which is exactly what I've been saying. And then you STILL didn't deal with the actual scummy logical error in the post I keep quoting. This time you tried to dodge it by saying that you were dealing with something else that RC said. But I wrote all of 3) out for a reason, and it explains clearly why your words are not JUST about RC's response to my case on you. And then there's this, the height of all fake scumhunting:

But, I can see how you would be worried about being perceived as scum, as I think that is the whole point of you post here.

Nobody WANTS to be perceived as scum. You can't use the fact that I'm defending myself against me, because scum gives up exactly as much as town does.
I am glad I've pressured more content out of you, though, since it should help the others make a decision about you.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Ok so it seems like EP has actually hit up some points I wanted to bring up.

Mastermind of Sin

: Null
#93 Almost 100 pages in and has to get his "random" vote in.
In quotes because I believe he is keeping his cards close.
I guess we are not worth his time

If there is one thing that is a pet peeve of mine, it's people reading something into a random vote as if it was anything but a random vote. Don't make me hate you forever.

Ok, that is cool. I was going to ask why you felt the need to random vote then/not add anything new but I think those points have already been hit.

That's why it's a random vote...

they aren't supposed to be helpful

, or they wouldn't be random.

Ant's #302 was cool and pro-town. You are invited to the Alliance. Please confirm or deny your membership in your next post.

/confirm acceptance. This should be interesting

but but, MOS isnt even trying. March Hare is looking for scum. How's march scummier?

I'm really not liking MoS and MBF excusing their inactivity, by saying there's too much fluff. My current guess for the scumteam is them + dana.

I didn't say anything about fluff...

*goes to get a quote but EP totally was on the ball*

but even after your random vote you have nothing relevant to say. This is pretty close,

Perhaps if you guys didn't spam up the topic so much, it would be worth MoS's time.

This.

I'm projecting here, but a fake day kill was the tactic I used as scum in a mini game where posting was meager and I really didn't know what to say ..

And I have seen a game where town pulled off a fake day kill. Guess that point is null then.

@Ant: I'm sure this line could have applied to me too. Why did ya add it only to ani?
"Although has posted elsewhere and not here."

Because you weren't prodded? You have posted in this thread every day except for the 4th. There was no reason for me to look into you like that.

What's scummy about AntTTM?

All of his posts give me a made-up feel. The initial vote post which I mentioned earlier, the one reacting to the day-kill, the player analysis where all but one are town or null.

Cool. So you have a larger list of people who are scum? *looks* Hmmm 1....maybe 2. Nope =/

[PeregrineV]

@Dana- Ok, I agree with you.

Unvote.
Vote: Danakillsu

[Thor665]

Seriously, WTF is this Smurf?

I just skimmed Thor in iso. and he's hardly mentioned me since his precious fake day vig. He asked RC to meta me and hasn't even taken note of RC's response. Jesus Christ.

I could tunnel you more if I felt it would help - I was pretty explicit in reasons I got off you, and the thing you're complaining about is me bringing up that I still think you're scummy.
Congratulations - you have caught me being consistent. Good job!

@MarchHare: You said you've played with him before, and didn't like his playstyle. Was he fluffy and directionless then?

No, it was just narrow minded and generally bad. He was town in that game.

Generally bad? Nah, you couldn't have played with me before. That said, stay tuned and I'll respond to you and PereV at the same time via a quote!

@Thor- Since I don't think I've seen your play as scum yet, and I don't find this completely unfounded at this point, can you respond?

we're on Page 10 and I still feel like we're in the RVS and it's making me crawl the walls.

ITT MarchHare has accurately provided a read on how I'm playing today that I already provided for everyone. Good job!
Do you think my call that I feel we're still in RVS might lead to a feeling that I'm directionless? And, quite frankly, this was an accusation I already leveled *at the entire thread* (quite justly I believe) so...good job again, MH, you're rocking along.

I'm too May 5thed up to bother with most of the rest of these walls. That Pere wagon certainly sprang up quick and aggressive all of a sudden once Dana started picking up speed. We didn't see that when my wagon sprouted. Food for thought, I sorta feel we're on the right track and Pere is the chosen mislynch wagon. That's all I've got.

[PeregrineV]

What's ITT?

[Ant_to_the_max]

ITT = In This Topic

[Mastermind of Sin]

but but, MOS isnt even trying. March Hare is looking for scum. How's march scummier?

I'm really not liking MoS and MBF excusing their inactivity, by saying there's too much fluff. My current guess for the scumteam is them + dana.

I didn't say anything about fluff...

*goes to get a quote but EP totally was on the ball*

but even after your random vote you have nothing relevant to say. This is pretty close,

Perhaps if you guys didn't spam up the topic so much, it would be worth MoS's time.

This.

That doesn't say anything about the contents of said spam, does it?

In other news, you kids need to chill out. I go to sleep, and I wake up with a prod from the mod. What's up with that? Can't a guy take a nap without getting prodded these days? I wasn't gone for *that* long...

[Thor665]

@MoS - that's pretty weak. How about you just comment on more things and then we won't think you believe they are fluff. Huzzah!