Theme Test Market

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Post Post #2875 (ISO) » Wed May 04, 2011 4:19 am

Post by GreyICE »

gandalf5166 wrote:
GreyICE wrote:
Empking wrote:
GreyICE wrote:Do NOT take any ideas from the version that was run over at MTGS.

The spy worked like this - pro town role, kills a player IF THEY TAKE A NIGHT ACTION.

Vig that doesn't kill vanillas..



What's wrong with that? (It seems "meh" to me.)

Lemme put it this way: 4 townies, 1 scum. Spy still alive.

Also he was confirming people having not taken shots or made actions all day long :P

And roleblockers can do the same thing. I don't see how that's a problem, considering that SCUM COULD HAVE FUCKING KILLED HIM.

I guess.

It ended up being really swingy, since the scumteam was too scared to submit a kill (Roleblocker confirms town when a kill is submitted... spy Confirms town when a kill is submitted... AND AUTO-KILLED SCUM IF IT "BLOCKED" THEM).

Medic overcharge ended up being worse though if I think about it. 1-shot or not, allowing the doctor to self protect in addition to having a normal protection target is fucktarded.
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Post Post #2876 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 9:18 am

Post by Hoppster »

So, thinking it through, comparethemeerkat.mafia is something I'd like to run as a (small) Large-theme; probably around 15-17 players. As I haven't modded any games yet, it certainly won't be coming up any time soon. (Rest assured though that I haven't forgotten it!)

I'm currently working1 on We Will Rock You Mafia (which will be a Mini Theme). For those who don't know, it's a musical based on the songs by Queen (fairly negative reviews by critcs tbh, but I loved it) - so that'd make the game a game based on a musical based on the songs of a band.

1I have just thought of the idea2

2I lie. I stole it from somebody (with permission)
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Post Post #2877 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 9:27 am

Post by Twistedspoon »

Hoppster wrote:
I'm currently working1 on We Will Rock You Mafia (which will be a Mini Theme). For those who don't know, it's a musical based on the songs by Queen (fairly negative reviews by critcs tbh, but I loved it) - so that'd make the game a game based on a musical based on the songs of a band.

1I have just thought of the idea2

2I lie. I stole it from somebody (with permission)

what is this i don't even-

Firstly with sufficient interest I will be modding this game with hoppster. I'm fine with him being the prime mod, but he could have mentioned it was my idea at least :igmeou:

so yeah, he does have my permisssion to mod it with myself. He forgot to mention that :P
probably be a mini-theme game, yes hoppster?

so yeah, declare your interest or pre-in. Probably be a while off yet since we have no modding experience already, but that means more time to make it the best we will rock you mafia EVAR! :D
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Post Post #2878 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by zoraster »

Buy and Sell Your Fate

Currently on hold

This is easily the most complicated game I’ve ever proposed running. It uses a resource system that will not be unfamiliar to those who have played Settlers of Catan, but let me assure you it is not “Settlers Mafia.” It is a setup that requires teamwork, insight, resource management, and trading. It’s designed to be a 20 player game.

I will take pre-ins for this, but please note that all my attention will be spent on Team Mafia over the next couple of months, so it will probably be a while before this game ever sees the light of day


General Outline


The Draft and Plots of Land

There are six types of resources: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo and Foxtrot resources. At the start of the game there will be a draft in the typical fashion. One player will get first pick in the first round, but the last pick in the second. One player will get the last pick in the first round, but the first pick in the second. In the draft, for each pick, the player will choose a plot of land.

There is one plot of land for each resource at each of the following numbers: 2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,11 and 12 for a total of 40 plots of land. Thus, each player will get 3 plots of land. Note, there is no “7” plot.

The draft will take three days. Each day, each player will list his top 20 land plot choices for the draft and PM that to the mod. Please format this with a letter and the plot number. For example:
1. A8
2. D6
…will put your first choice as the Alpha 8 plot, and the Delta 6 plot as second.

If a player lists fewer than 20 land plot choices or doesn’t make any choices, the player will have the rest of his choices “auto-picked” for him in the following manner:

Spoiler: Autopick Rankings
1. A8
2. A6
3. B8
4. B6
5. C8
6. C6
7. D8
8. D6
9. A5
10. A9
11. B5
12. B9
13. C5
14. C9
15. D5
16. D9
17. A4
18. A10
19. B4
20. B10
21. C4
22. C10
23. D4
24. D10
25. A3
26. A11
27. B3
28. B11
29. C3
30. C11
31. D3
32. D11
33. A2
34. A12
35. B2
36. B12
37. C2
38. C12
39. D2
40. D12
41. E6
42. E8
43. F6
44. F8
45. E5
46. E9
47. F5
48. F9
49. E4
50. E10
51. F4
52. F10
53. E3
54. E11
55. F3
56. F11
57. E2
58. E12
59. F2
60. F12


Resource Production

At some point each real life day, two six sided die will be rolled to produce a number, 2-12. This will be done twice per day. Each plot of land that has that number will produce one of the resources. For example, if a 5 is rolled, then the 5 plot for Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo and Foxtrot will produce a resource.

Spoiler: Probabilities
2: 2.78% (1 out of 36)
3: 5.56% (2 out of 36)
4: 8.33% (3 out of 36)
5: 11.11% (4 out of 36)
6: 13.89% (5 out of 36)
7: 16.67% (6 out of 36)
8: 13.89% (5 out of 36)
9: 11.11% (4 out of 36)
10: 8.33% (3 out of 36)
11: 5.56% (2 out of 36)
12: 2.78% (1 out of 36)


The game will begin with three rolls of the die. Thereafter, each real life day the die will be rolled twice.

Echo and Foxtrot Resources

Echo and Foxtrot Resources are special. They are not used to directly produce anything, but may be traded as normal with the NPC for other resources, traded with other players, or used to buy plots of land after someone’s death.

Marketplace: Trades

By PMing the mod, you may place any of the following up for trade. You must specify the specific resources sought OR say a total number of resources. You may only sell an item or resource for resources, not other items.
1. Resources (A,B,C, D, E and/or F)
2. Plots of land
3. Abilities
4. Waiver Spot

For example, you might PM the mod with: “2 D resources and my D10 plot for 10 total resources.” Or you might say “My double voter ability for 3 A and 2 C resources.”

Once the trade is posted in the game thread, it will remain open for acceptance for twenty-four hours. At this point, one of the players who accepted the trade will randomly get the bid. If no player has accepted the bid, it will be removed from the marketplace.

Votes

Each player will start the game voting for another player (randomly assigned) but no player will be at “worse” than L-2.

Vote changes and unvotes cost either two C or one D resource. If a player makes a vote, they will automatically be assessed the cost in the following order: one D resource, two C resources. If they cannot cover the cost, 4 resources will automatically be taken at random from the player. If the player doesn’t have 4 resources, their vote will not count, they will be moved to the bottom of the waiver list, and 1 resource will be deducted at random.

The NPC Trader

Any player may use the NPC trader to trade some resources for another resource. Unmodified by abilities, it takes 4 total resources to trade for one specific resource. For example, you could trade 2 A, 1 C and 1 E resource for a single D resource.

Sevens and Deadlines

After the first five rolls of the game (3 beginning the game and 2 for the first day) the following things happen:
1. All players who have stockpiled more than six of a particular resource will have the excess resources given to the “thief.” At the beginning of the game, the robber is one of the scum.
2. The deadline counter is adjusted. When four sevens have been rolled in a game day, one more die roll will be made and then day will end in 24 hours. If the Day ends without a majority of players voting for a player, there is a no lynch.

If the Day Ends Quickly

If the day ends quickly, either by a fast lynch or reaching 4 sevens rolled, additional roles will be made. The number of roles will be determined by the following formula: 25-number of rolls already made that day-number of already dead players. For example, if on Day 2 twelve rolls have already been made and there are four dead people, there will be 25-12-4 for 9 additional rolls.

Death and the Waiver System

When someone dies (by lynch or NK), their resource plots will be put up for sale for 24 hours. Each player may attempt to buy precisely one of the resource plots at a time (even if there are more than one people dead). At the end of the 24 hours, the player who is highest on the waiver list will get to buy the resource plot. Each player who successfully buys a plot will move down to the bottom of the waiver list.

The cost of the plots is as follows:
Spoiler: Costs
2 and 12: 1 of any resource
3 and 11: 2 of any resource
4 and 10: 3 of any resource
5 and 9: 4 of any resource
6 and 8: 5 of any resource


The waiver system initially starts set as the opposite to the draft order, so the last pick of the first round gets the top waiver spot.

At death, all abilities and resources are lost. If at the end of 24 hours, the plots are unclaimed, the plot is lost forever.


Building an ability

The game has many abilities that may be produced by spending your resources. Each has a unique cost. To build an ability, simply PM the mod with the ability you want built.

The Ability List

This is a preliminary list, and has not be balanced yet. It’s meant more to give an idea of what types of roles might be in the game than to actually list them. Mostly I need to sit down and actually think about how fast any individual role is achievable.

Voting Abilities

1. Delayed Vote (x2)
Cost: 1 Delta
Info: This ability gives you two votes to spend for the price of one. However, they may not be used or sold within 72 hours of being produced. You may sell the delayed votes together or separately.

2. Ghost Voter
Cost: 1 Alpha, 3 Charlie, 4 Delta
Info: This ability allows you to use an alt-account (one will be given to you) to vote. This will allow you to effectively have double voting powers without allowing other players to know it is you. Please note that it will still cost you one Delta or two Charlie resources for every vote your ghost voter makes. The ghost voter may do nothing EXCEPT vote. It is suggested you use a different browser when posting on the ghost voter account. This ability may only be used once (i.e. you may not have multiple ghost voters running around).

3. Increase Lynch Threshold
Cost: 1 Alpha, 2 Bravo, 1 Charlie, 4 Delta
Info: This ability increases the number of votes required to lynch you by one. Only works for the present day. Can be stacked.

4. Deadline Extension
Cost: 1 Bravo, 2 Charlie, 2 Delta
Info: Increases the number of “seven” rolls to trigger the deadline by one. May be stacked.

Resource Production Abilities

1. Lucky Sevens
Cost: 1 Alpha, 2 Bravo, 3 Charlie
Info: When a seven is rolled from now on, you receive a specific resource. You must specify in your PM to the mod asking to build this ability what resource you want to be created when a seven is rolled.

2. Thief
Cost: 2 Charlie
Info: This takes the “thief” away from whoever had it last. Any time a seven is rolled while you are the thief means that all players who have more than 6 of a particular resource have the excess given to you. Each thief is assured at least one roll before another player is allowed to become the thief.

3. Security System
Cost: 2 Alpha, 2 Bravo, 5 Charlie, 2 Delta
Info: Prevents the Thief from taking your excess resources.

4. NPC Trader Upgrade 1
Cost: 1 Alpha, 1 Bravo, 2 Charlie, 1 Delta
Info: The NPC trades at a 3:1 ratio now.

5. NPC Trader Upgrade 2
Cost: 1 Alpha, 1 Bravo, 4 Charlie, 1 Delta
Info: The NPC trades at a 2:1 ratio now.

6. NPC Trader Upgrade 3
Cost: 2 Alpha, 2 Bravo, 4 Charlie, 2 Delta
Info: The NPC trades at a 1:1 ratio now.

7. Negotiation Level 1
Cost: 2 Bravo, 3 Charlie (+ usage cost)
Info: Once you have this ability, at a cost of 1 Charlie per use and a maximum once per game day, a QT will be set up for you and a target (PM the mod to set it up). You may negotiate a trade directly with the other person. Other players will not be aware that you have made the trade. You may trade anything you want for anything else. The QT will last for 72 hours and then will be shut down.

8. Negotiation Level 2
Cost: 2 Bravo, 2 Charlie
Info: You may now set up two negotiations per game day and negotiations no longer cost resources. The negotiations (and the QTs) last until the end of the game day.

Killing Roles

NOTE: Mafia is factionally limited to two kills per night. No two weapons may be used by the same player in the same night.

1. Knife
Cost: 2 Alpha, 1 Bravo
Info:

2. Gun Level 1
Cost: 4 Alpha, 1 Delta
Info: A gun always kills. It can only shoot once per night. The musket requires bullets.

3. Gun Level 2
Cost: 8 Alpha, 1 Bravo, 1 Charlie, 1 Delta (or 5 Alpha, 1 Bravo, 1 Charlie, 1 Delta to upgrade from Gun Level 1)
Info: This gun shoots twice per night. It still requires bullets. You may only shoot one gun per night.

4. Regular Bullets
Cost: 1 Alpha
Info: These bullets are normal. They kill things.

5. Armor Piercing Bullets
Cost: 2 Alpha
Info: Bulletproof vests and doctors do not prevent someone shot by an armor piercing bullet from dying.

6. Dissolving Bullet
Cost: 2 Alpha
Info: Forensic Scientists and Watchers are unable to tell who shot the victim.

7. Poison
Cost: 5 Alpha
Info: One dose of poison. It kills someone not that night but the following one. Undetectable by trackers, watchers, or forensic scientists. Does not show up as a gun to the gunsmith. Curable by a doctor if treated either night.

Investigative Abilities


1. Gunsmith
Cost: 2 Alpha, 4 Bravo
Info: The gunsmith sees whether a player owns a gun. Investigates at night.

2. Tracker (one shot)
Cost: 1 Alpha, 2 Bravo
Info: The tracker will track a player at night and report on who that player visited.

3. Tracker
Cost: 2 Alpha, 3 Bravo
Info: The tracker will track a player at night and report on who that player visited.

4. Paranormal Investigator (one shot)
Cost: 2 Bravo, 2 Delta
Info: Identifies one “Ghost Voter” account.

5. Watcher (one shot)
Cost: 1 Alpha, 3 Bravo
Info: Identifies anyone who visited a player that night.

6. Forensic Scientist (one shot)
Cost: 3 Alpha, 4 Bravo
Info: Identifies who knifed or shot a player from the night before.

7. Corporate Espeonage (one shot)
Cost: 2 Bravo, 2 Charlie
Info: Identifies who a player entered into negotiations with the previous day and what was exchanged.

8. Cop with a Warrant (one shot)
Cost: 1 Alpha, 4 Bravo, 1 Charlie, 1 Delta
Info: Identifies everything that a player currently holds including resources, plots of land, their position on the waiver, and abilities.

Protection Abilities

1. Bulletproof (one shot)
Cost: 2 Alpha, 2 Bravo
Info: Protects against one gunshot wound.

2. Doctor (one shot)
Cost: 2 Alpha, 2 Bravo
Info: Protect another player from death.

Misc. Ability

1. The Winner
Cost: 12 Alpha, 12 Bravo, 12 Charlie, 12 Delta
Info: You win an individual win. Everyone else loses. Not available if you have held the Thief role at any time.
Last edited by zoraster on Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #2879 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:38 pm

Post by GreyICE »

Seems more like a mish-mash thing.
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Post Post #2880 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:43 pm

Post by zoraster »

GreyICE wrote:Seems more like a mish-mash thing.


no.

There's a mafia, a town, a majority lynch mechanic that, though alterable, should favor an uninformed majority over an informed minority, a night where the informed minority can probably put together a night kill.
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Post Post #2881 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:45 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

I'd agree with GreyICE, but I'd check it through mith. There have been several mafia games run through TWSOGMM, and they seem to fit into this category.
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Post Post #2882 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:48 pm

Post by GreyICE »

zoraster wrote:
GreyICE wrote:Seems more like a mish-mash thing.


no.

There's a mafia, a town, a majority lynch mechanic that, though alterable, should favor an uninformed majority over an informed minority, a night where the informed minority can probably put together a night kill.

No, I mean it would be more fun in Mish Mash.

Let people form alliances, break alliances, backstab each other, that sort of thing. Let them buy things like a neighborizor role to use to communicate with their "allies." Trade resources. Etc.

Maybe give people a 'secret group?' Five groups of 3 or sth, and win if two specific groups are eliminated?

1 -> Kill 4+5
2 -> Kill 3+5
3 -> Kill 2+4
4 -> Kill 3+1
5 -> Kill 2+1
Last edited by GreyICE on Fri May 06, 2011 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2883 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

GreyICE wrote:No, I mean it would be more fun in Mish Mash.

Let people form alliances, break alliances, backstab each other, that sort of thing. Let them buy things like a neighborizor role to use to communicate with their "allies." Trade resources. Etc.

Maybe let the last three people alive win, as well as the 'buy a win' thing.



THIS. SO MUCH THIS.
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Post Post #2884 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:55 pm

Post by zoraster »

GreyICE wrote:
zoraster wrote:
GreyICE wrote:Seems more like a mish-mash thing.


no.

There's a mafia, a town, a majority lynch mechanic that, though alterable, should favor an uninformed majority over an informed minority, a night where the informed minority can probably put together a night kill.

No, I mean it would be more fun in Mish Mash.

Let people form alliances, break alliances, backstab each other, that sort of thing. Let them buy things like a neighborizor role to use to communicate with their "allies." Trade resources. Etc.

Maybe give people a 'secret group?' Five groups of 3 or sth, and win if two specific groups are eliminated?

1 -> Kill 4+5
2 -> Kill 3+5
3 -> Kill 2+4
4 -> Kill 3+1
5 -> Kill 2+1


If you read the setup you can see that they can trade resources (and land plots and abilities), they can buy things like neighborizors (see "negotiation 1").

As for the rest, I like this fitting into a game of mafia. It gives direction to the game, and my intention isn't to make some sort of LOL game.
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Post Post #2885 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by zoraster »

animorpherv1 wrote:I'd agree with GreyICE, but I'd check it through mith. There have been several mafia games run through TWSOGMM, and they seem to fit into this category.


Again, no. This isn't even a borderline case. It is mafia.
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Post Post #2886 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

Whatever happened to "the dice have no place in mafia"?
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Post Post #2887 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 1:59 pm

Post by zoraster »

animorpherv1 wrote:Whatever happened to "the dice have no place in mafia"?


Randomness is often a very BAD idea for a game of mafia, but it is not a disqualifier for it. The reason we dislike chance in mafia is that it tends to be very swingy because there are few iterations. For example, in a game where there are likely to be 4 nights, having a doctor who 50% of the time heals and 50% of the time kills is terrible because there's a fairly good chance he'll throw things off by killing 3 or 4 times out of the 4. In other words, the difference between winning and losing comes down to whether or not one or two coin flips come out your way or not. That's not fun.

Here, that's not the case. There are likely to be dozens of iterations so the actual swing will be fairly low. It's like a game of scrabble. If the game were to get 7 letters and play the highest score off of that, it'd be a bad indicator of skill. But played over many drawings, it IS an indicator.
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Post Post #2888 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 2:04 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

Honestly, nothing against you or the game idea (I actually quite like it. It could easily run as a Mish Mash, from my direction, if you just change around some of the abilities), but it looks to Mish Mash-ish for a Mafia games. The ability to buy and, upgrade and use what essentially are rewards has been used is Mish Mash before. Many times. It's being use din an ongoing game right now.
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Post Post #2889 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 2:12 pm

Post by zoraster »

animorpherv1 wrote:Honestly, nothing against you or the game idea (I actually quite like it. It could easily run as a Mish Mash, from my direction, if you just change around some of the abilities), but it looks to Mish Mash-ish for a Mafia games. The ability to buy and, upgrade and use what essentially are rewards has been used is Mish Mash before. Many times. It's being use din an ongoing game right now.


And yet I don't want to run it as a mish mash. I want to run it as a game of mafia, and I think it can work well there. I'll make the changes I need to in that direction, not toward Mish Mash. I have zero desire to turn this into mish mash.

What games are you referring to anyway? I'm aware that buying and selling isn't a new concept. But getting it to work within the framework of mafia is something that hasn't been done a lot before.
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Post Post #2890 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

The buying and selling, Nomic.

The using of powers, SO MANY (for one, Haunted Mansion).

The trading of Powers, [ongoing game I don't feel like mentioning], 1000 Blank White Cards, etc.
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Post Post #2891 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 2:26 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

Honestly, 1KBWC fits for all of them, Nomic fits for all of them.

I couldn't be assed to think of any more right now.
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Post Post #2892 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 2:27 pm

Post by zoraster »

And all those games aren't mafia for reasons that have nothing to do with those mechanics. Nomic wasn't mishmash because there was buying and selling (that part of the game was player developed, from what I can tell), haunted mansion wasn't mish mash because its players used powers (this is a very confusing point since most games use powers), and 1000 blank white cards isn't in mish mash because there's trading.

They're in mish mash because there's not an informed minority versus an uninformed majority where the uninformed majority must try to eliminate the informed minority through voting and a majority (or plurality) lynch. Haunted Mansion comes closest, but that fails the lynching part.

I think the problem here is a fault in logic. A has C, and B has C and B is a D doesn't mean that A is a D. Just because there are similarities between my suggestion and many mish mash games doesn't mean that the game is a mish mash game.
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Post Post #2893 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 2:32 pm

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Technically, in the current ongoing 1KBWC there is a minority and a majority. If you want to be technical, no, it is not informed vs, uninformed.

But I strongly believe this game has more potential in Mish Mash because a game that involves all of the above has a high potential to confuse the players and make them focus on the mechanic more than the game.
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Post Post #2894 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 6:08 pm

Post by zoraster »

animorpherv1 wrote:Technically, in the current ongoing 1KBWC there is a minority and a majority. If you want to be technical, no, it is not informed vs, uninformed.

But I strongly believe this game has more potential in Mish Mash because a game that involves all of the above has a high potential to confuse the players and make them focus on the mechanic more than the game.


Well the Alamo was fought between a minority and a majority, but they weren't playing mafia.

I think it's a fair criticism that it may be confusing, although I suspect that it won't be that confusing after walking through it. I suspect it seems a lot more complicated to those who have quickly read through the rules to comment on it here than it would actually play out. It's probably less confusing than my previous Trader Mafia, actually (a lot less math too). But still, it is a very complicated game. It's certainly not one that people who hate discussing the setup in a game would like. But several of my other games have been like that (Almost No Rules Mafia, Real Time Mafia, Parallel Universe Mafia, and to a lesser extent Pledge of Allegiance).

In any case, as I've said before, I am uninterested in running this as a mish mash game. It loses a considerable amount by turning it into something that's not mafia It unravels. The game is actually set up to be played as mafia which is why I reacted so vehemently to the suggestion that it's better suited for mish mash. It is not. Don't get me wrong: it is certainly DIFFERENT than most games of mafia that get played and requires some mish mash type of mentality as far as what rules do. But that doesn't mean its core isn't about finding and lynching scum or avoiding that fate.
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Post Post #2895 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 6:13 pm

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I understand where you are coming from, but I'm still worried about people focusing on the mechanic more than the scumhunting.

If you could put the rolls at the end of the day, this may solves the problem a little bit.
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Post Post #2896 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 6:34 pm

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animorpherv1 wrote:I understand where you are coming from, but I'm still worried about people focusing on the mechanic more than the scumhunting.

If you could put the rolls at the end of the day, this may solves the problem a little bit.


Many of the roles are night roles. The voting and resource ones aren't, for obvious reasons, but the investigation and killing ones all work at night.
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Post Post #2897 (ISO) » Fri May 06, 2011 7:46 pm

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zoraster wrote:
animorpherv1 wrote:I understand where you are coming from, but I'm still worried about people focusing on the mechanic more than the scumhunting.

If you could put the rolls at the end of the day, this may solves the problem a little bit.


Many of the roles are night roles. The voting and resource ones aren't, for obvious reasons, but the investigation and killing ones all work at night.

Uhhhhhhhhhh

I strongly, strongly, STRONGLY suggest that if you go this route you check out Advance Wars games. Variable cooldowns solves a lot of balance issues. That being said, this game is still much better off in Mish Mash.

Why? Look at advance wars. Half the mechanics had to do with voting, lynching, etc. Here, your mechanics have to do with investigations and kills. Shoehorning that into a mafia setup is a waste of time. You don't enhance the mafia game by adding a bunch of night actions, you don't enhance the actions by stuffing them into some very limiting setup restrictions.

What you're doing here is thinking that every interesting mechanic deserves a mafia game to go around it. No. I might love portal 2 and Monday Night combat, but their mechanics would suck for Mafia... and so do these, to be honest.
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Post Post #2898 (ISO) » Sat May 07, 2011 4:42 am

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Variable cooldown times? You mean like Real Time Mafia? This isn't my first rodeo.

I suggest reading the setup before making such definite criticisms, GreyICE. I have become convinced the more I read your comments that you have very selectively skimmed the setup in order to try and win an argument as the comments seem to be divorced from either a holistic understanding of the setup or a specific understanding of many of its features. Not getting it all in the first reading is understandable given the breadth and complexity of the setup, but it makes it hard to have a real conversation about the game.

Voting and lynching play an integral part in the economics of the game. There are four abilities that have to do with either, and voting is perhaps the linchpin (har har) of the economic system, requiring that the town work together with resources (rather than hoarding) and trading. Regardless of THAT, the abilities themselves are in no way set. I point this out at the beginning of the abilities list when I say, "It’s meant more to give an idea of what types of roles might be in the game than to actually list them. "

I am certainly not "thinking that every interesting mechanic deserves a mafia game to go around it." Over the course of the 9 games I've finished moderating, I have considered and rejected at least as many as being not a good fit for mafia.

Take a step back and quell your continually patronizing attitude. It is as misplaced as it is insulting.

To be clear, there are certainly criticisms leveled that I understand and perhaps make it not worth the time. For example, ani's worry that it'll be too confusing and the game will devolve into just a bunch of mechanic discussion rather than scum hunting. That's something I worried about while making it, and it's something I'll continue to mull over before actually running a game with the setup above. What I tend to think is one of my strong suits as a moderator is restraint with a concept, and thus this setup makes me nervous on that front. But what I don't think is fair is your tone or your assumptions about my creative process, especially when you lack the proper understanding of the game.

Last and for the last time, I will not be running this game as a mish mash game. It will either get run as a mafia game or not at all.
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Post Post #2899 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2011 4:33 pm

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DEFCON Mafia 3.0: Yes or no? Trying to gauge whether there is interest in another run or whether this theme has tired out and I should move on to something else.

Your opinion in the thread or via PM is appreciated.

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