Point #2: Mafia Balam set up Mafia YosCayke's roleclaim in advance because they are scum together and planned it out.
- Don't make the mistake of thinking these guys don't have it in them to plan ahead. Breadcrumbing a fakeclaim in advance is par for the course, and I'd expect nothing less from Yos2.
So, let me get this streight. Your theory is this:
1. Balam breadcrumbed multiple times the I was a jailkeeper, breadcrumbs that no one picked up on (including me) but are obvious in retrospect.
2. Balam forced me to claim, threating to hammer me at lynch -1 if I didn't claim. Note that without the threat of Balam's vote, there would have been no need for me to claim at this point.
Balam forcing you to claim is what saved you from being lynched. Otherwise you would be dead.
3. I refused to do so for 24 hours. At any point during this time, I could have been hammered without claiming at all, completly ruining this supposed "gambit".
4. 24 hours later, once I got a response from Incognito, I claimed jailkeeper.
5. Balam claimed roleclop, pointed out his breadcrumb, and claimed Fate was a vanilla townie (correctly).
6. He was so sure of that, that when Fate decided to pick up the idiot ball and claim cop, Balam's response was "WE ARE EITHER GOING TO LYNCH ME TODAY, OR LYNCH FATE" with zero hesitation.
And you really think that the most likely theory is that Balam and me set up an elaborate jailkeeper fake claim, which I then refused to give while staying at lynch -1 under threat of hammer for 24 hours, and then that Balam blindly guessed that Fate was a vanilla townie with no role knowlege, and was so sure of that he was willing and eager to set up a 1v1 lynch situation with Fate?
That's a more probably theory then, say, the theory that Balam is telling the truth?
Yup, cuz it's exactly the type of gambit I would do if I was scum.
Point #4: Even after we breadcrumbed a doctor role at the end of the day yesterday, YosCayke supposedly blocked us anyway.
- That pretty much seals them being scum at this point. Scum YosCayke would block us so they could kill DaSpot without problems, but town YosCayke would not have reason to target us.
...
That was supposed to be a doctor breadcrumb? How the hell does that make any sense? This comment:
Matermate wrote:
YosFlavouredCayke, you are NOT to target DaSpot tonight. Balam, same thing. We trust DaSpot's claim more than either of your claims, since Copper has made valid points about the potential scum link between you two.
You ordered me to not protect Spot. Looked to me like you were trying to find out if I was going to target Spot, in order to figure out if you could kill him or not, and/or trying to stop me from targeting spot. That was one of the biggest scumtells I saw from your hydra yesterday.
Since it was obvious that you weren't actually a jailkeeper, that's not at all what I was doing. I told you not to target DaSpot because otherwise he would not be able to get a result on one of you. I breadcrumbed doctor by saying that he should get protection from a doctor. I was very careful to try and phrase it in a way that didn't give away whether or not we were the doctor. I think you picked up on it and roleblocked us so you could kill Daspot.
Point #5: Balam only breadcrumbed YosCayke's roleclaim.
- I don't believe they are a rolecop at all, much less a town one. They claimed to have a result on FD, but didn't even breadcrumb it, even after taking all the trouble to breadcrumb YosCayke's.
Why would you breadcrumb a vanilla result? Now you're just being silly.
Already answered that question.
Mastermate wrote:With someone as high profile as FD being under suspicion all game, any sane power role would have breadcrumbed that result so they couldn't fake claim later in the game.
Edit for new post:
Ok so if I am correct YosFlavouredScum and BalamScum have voted Copper, as well as LordFonzi? That pretty much solidifies the three of them as scum. Here's to hoping FES and PC see through their ruse and don't make the mistake of ending the game.
Checking in and not hammering. If nobody's willing to unvote, then I guess I'm pretty much waiting to see what FES does at this point because that should narrow things down by a whole lot for me.
Mastermate wrote:
Since it was obvious that you weren't actually a jailkeeper, that's not at all what I was doing.
The whole post of yours is BS, and obviously so, but this is especially silly. You thought it was "obvious I wasn't actually a jail-keeper" at the end of the day yesterday, and yet you quick-hammered Fate, after he unclaimed cop but before the rest of the town had a chance to comment on his new claim?
Your behavior at the end of the Fate wagon MIGHT have made sense if you thought I was town and he was scum at the time. If you thought my roleclaim was "obviously false", though, then your hammer makes no sense at all.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
Mastermate wrote:
Since it was obvious that you weren't actually a jailkeeper, that's not at all what I was doing.
The whole post of yours is BS, and obviously so, but this is especially silly. You thought it was "obvious I wasn't actually a jail-keeper" at the end of the day yesterday, and yet you quick-hammered Fate, after he unclaimed cop but before the rest of the town had a chance to comment on his new claim?
Your behavior at the end of the Fate wagon MIGHT have made sense if you thought I was town and he was scum at the time. If you thought my roleclaim was "obviously false", though, then your hammer makes no sense at all.
By the way, if Matermate is claiming roleblocked doctor, then that means we've got two people claiming roleblocked last night, which actually confirms me as town unless either Mastermate or Balam is lying. If two people were roleblocked last night, then one of the people doing the blocking would have to be town.
Of course, Matermate *IS* pretty clearly lying, so that dosn't really help that much. Still, if there was any doubt in any pro-town people's minds about who the scum is, that should about seal it. If Matermate were telling the truth about being a doc, then he would have know, for a FACT, that I am confirmed town UNLESS Balam is scum. So it would have made no sense for him to vote me, under ANY circumstances, before voting Balam.
The fact that he did, and in fact, did so right off the bat without hesitation, proves one thing. He is not town. In fact, it's pretty clear that he, and his scum team, were already planning to try to lynch me today.
Mastermate wrote:Lawl. Where did we claim to be a doctor? Scummy mcscum scum is a bit quick on the draw there.
Mastermate wrote: I breadcrumbed doctor by saying that he should get protection from a doctor. I was very careful to try and phrase it in a way that didn't give away whether or not we were the doctor. I think you picked up on it and roleblocked us so you could kill Daspot.
Also, you notice I said "If matermate is roleclaiming doctor". I certainty did notice the way you tried to keep your claim as ambiguous as possible there. Either way, though, it dosn't matter. You can't possibly be town here, and that should be obvious to everyone. And if you're scum, and you haven't hammered Copper yet, then Copper is also confirmed scum. GG
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
LoL. We're not the doctor, but that still doesn't explain why you roleblocked us after we breadcrumbed it.
Regardless, I'm not going to keep wasting everyone's time arguing back and forth with the two of you. YosCayke and Balam don't need to be convinced that they are scum, they already know they are, and at this point it's fairly certain that Fonzi is, too. So that means the rest of you are townies. Copper, PC, FES, what hasn't been addressed that you feel we should fill in about our case against the mafia?
Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:Don't bother pretending, PC. We lynched scums.
Yeah, we obviously did. You've got to appreciate the effort of PC and Mastermate lying right up through twilight, even after they're so completely caught, though.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
Copper: Balam, Lord Fonzi, YosFlavouredCayke, FES
YosFlavouredCayke: Mastermate
That's a lynch!
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
Last edited by TheButtonmen on Sun May 08, 2011 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
As annoying as Yos's jailkeeps have CONTINUED to be, I have to admit that the dude's probably town unfortunately.
Yos, who did you jailkeep last Night?
And before any of you sillies go lolvote:PC, I want you all to seriously THINK about what smargaret and I have said and done this game and whether or not our actions even make sense as scum. Because I'm telling you right now that they don't.
Copper was bussed Yesterday by at least one of Lord Fonzi/FES. I know this because I know I'm town but if you need more reason to see this just think about it logically: how often do potential LyLo wagons lynch correctly that quickly?
Spoiler: CLICK ME FOR THE ANSWER
NEVER.
I don't think they'd both bus Copper at the same time, so my guess is Mastermate is indeed the third scum since it looks like we're probably dealing with a scum team of 3 people.
Oh man, we really screwed the pooch yesterday. I (we) owe an apology to Balam and YosCayke for being completely retarded. Tunnel vision is a bitch, and let it never be said that I don't get impressed by my own cleverness at times. Unfortunately, I pushed this case on my better half right after he hammered FD, and although he agreed with me (and approved of our line of voting/questioning), I tended to overrule any potential wrenches he brought up, like the "one town power role balance" that was also mentioned in thread. So while our hydra was in agreement about its actions then and is now as well, I need to take responsibility for my stupidity at this point. I'm going to address a few basic points for today before handing things over to my other head, who obviously has a better grasp on this game.
1) Profane Confusion is most likely scum, but since I was completely convinced of Yos/Balam yesterday, I don't trust myself to review the evidence against them and come to a reasonable conclusion.
2) Fonzi or FES is the third scum, but we don't know which it is yet. The only evidence I can offer at this point is that PC was willing to posit that we are definitely scum (lining up the town lynch that will definitely lose us the game), whereas they were unwilling to point a strong finger at either FES or Fonzi specifically. Unfortunately, it's not a strong defense, considering that I am basically saying the same thing in this post.
3) I am utterly confused by the fact that the scum did not jump on the chance to end the game yesterday. I know it looks bad for me today and that helps them in the long run, but honestly it would have been terribly easy for them to simply lynch YosCayke, since our town vote made it impossible for any scum to be lynched yesterday without help from the bus. Maybe they were paranoid about timing and didn't think they'd all be around to place votes before we came to our senses and unvoted YosCayke, I dunno. I don't have a good explanation at this point.
4) I'd like to see everyone (including ourselves) offer solid arguments about why other players in this game *could* be scum. I think that's the only way we're going to cut through this mess at this point. However, I'd like to have YosCayke save their arguments for last, since they are the most likely town of all of us. It will be beneficial to them to see everyone have to put forth reasoning without being able to copy off themselves. Personally I'd like to see this done in a round robin manner, where each hydra posts arguments against one other hydra at a time, so that each of us has to put forth reasoning against someone before anyone else does it. I suggest that YosCayke decide the ordering for this. The benefits of this plan are similar to a properly executed mass claim (which, for the record, we completely failed at yesterday).
Question: What is it that now makes you sure of YosCayke's alignment being town?
I'm kind of confused by that because Yesterday you were arguing that the balance looked about right with a single PR in the set-up, and the only things that have changed since that point are the scum flip and Balam's Rolecop flip.
Incidentally, I've never really said that I think you're definitely guilty - my last post was a guess based on how I think the scum would have acted Yesterday; the thing that's bugging me about that guess is how my read of your predecessor could have been that off.
Oh, and last night, I targeted Mastermate. Not that it matters who I target at this point, since I assume that the scum blocked me and killed Balam, which is pretty much what I expected them to do.
Yos, considering Copper's awful level of activity throughout the game, do you really think it's right to make that kind of assumption? I think you're being a bit premature with your vote.
Scummy mcscum scum is a bit quick on the draw there.
