Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

[Doombunny9]

I, for one, would like to see you elaborate on "all the other stuff". You still haven't told us what this stuff is - at the very least you could post links.

It begins near the end of D1/beginning of D2 where he and Sea start heavily voicing their feelings that each other is scummy at close times. However, other than a short time near the end of D1 where Set votes Sea for a short time and recently, they seem to ignore voting each other and instead just throw things back and forth between them. (Actually, I've missed something in here until now which I will address at the end of this case). None of them really push the Jedo case either except in a few select areas and instead focus on each other, possibly setting up a case where if Jedo got mislynched, they could say "Oh, but what I

really

wanted was for Set/Sea to get lynched, not Jedo!". Overall, their points on Jedo just seem like a place to park their votes while they try and bus or cast suspicion on each other. other than that, Set doesn't seem to be doing any solid scumhunting. Other than responding to other peoples posts directed toward him, he just seems to be passivly participating in the game, not doing much of his own scumhunting.

Anyway, the question I wanted to ask set was- In ISO post #10 you state "there was a possibility for Seacore momentum if other people besides me were finding him scummy but hadn't thought a wagon on him was a possibility." Why is this the case on D1 but not now?

That's a distinction rather akin to that between "he shot a man" and "he shot a man charging at him with a knife".

I would agree with you but then I decided to take back everything I've said when I saw Sea's post in which he does exactly what I said.

I guess I've been more confident he's scum ever since these posts and his crappy explanation of it:

This still isn't really what I was looking for. Let me try something else. How scummy did you find Sea in these periods:

-When you replaced in
-Near the end of D1
-Near the beginning of D2
-Now

[Nachomamma8]

Grey, your accusation that I'm lurking is ridiculous. I've devoted plenty of time to this game, it's just all been answering Nacho's questions. I answered them when I came to them and had no time to read the rest of the thread.

It's also false to say I've done nothing. I haven't been able to be as active as I'd like lately, but I certainly haven't been absent. You're just trying to dismiss my case against Jedo, but calling me a bitch and telling everyone my posts are worthless does not make them go away. Your slot is scum and that doesn't change just because you replace in.

GreyICE was not trying to remove your posts by calling you a bitch. I figured that little piece of information had already been explained.
I don't really see where he called your posts worthless. Mind linking me?

@Doom:

@Sea- You build a case on the person you most want lynched and vote them. For example, from your posts I can tell that your strongest read was on Set yet you continued to vote Jedo because he was the largest wagon. If you wanted a Set wagon to form, wouldn't it make the most sense to be voting him?

@Set-Who do you currently find more scummy, the Grey/Jedo slot or the Sea slot? When did you start finding Sea "obvscum"?

Unvote

Need to read Sea and Set in iso later.

@AV- I know that there are more than one scum but there is also the chance (A really good one in fact) that someones scumreads have some town in there. Unless Set/Sea are 100% sure that they've nailed two scum (Which is either a) A lucky investigative role on at least D3 or b) A tunneler) then they should be voting their main suspect rather than just whoever (There are exceptions such as if someone needs a hammer or it is close to deadline but I see none of these happening at this point). Sure someone can be pushing a case on 2+ people but I don't think town should just be throwing their votes down on anyone with a large enough wagon.

@Twisted- Amazing contribution (Not). Now, two questions for you (One of which someone asked before and you haven't answered):

1. Can you make a case on why you think Sea is scummy other than "He voted himself and I wanted to jump on a bandwagon to pull off a mislynch herp derp"?
2. Why do you think Set is town?

Vote: Twisted

This guy really needs to post more content.

What happened to those rereads...?

I read set as town

just thought I'd say :/

Gut, or something more?

I find Jedo scummy because of the way his wagon formed and fell apart. I mean, go back over D1 and watch it. It grew as a secondary wagon to Krypt, stayed secondary when Power because the prime wagon and then just when it was about to become the prime wagon itself, it fell apart and people went after Quar. Some of them did it "just to hammer so we'd have somebody at deadline" even though, with a little bit more work, Jedo could have been the lynch.

Why do you think his wagon fell apart? Scum influence, or was it because the people pushing the wagons with the most fervor lost their spirit?

It's basically the whole Vote:Town FOS:Scumbuddy thing that is so common.

Examples?

We are not lynching packbat today.

If he posts his reread or replaces out, no we are not.

[Seacore]

Nacho, do you mean examples of when scum do the Vote:Town FOS: Scumbuddy? Or examples of Set doing the equivalent in this game?

[GreyICE]

@Nacho: What are your views on LlamaFluff, Setael, and Seacore?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, do you mean examples of when scum do the Vote:Town FOS: Scumbuddy? Or examples of Set doing the equivalent in this game?

The first.

@Nacho: What are your views on LlamaFluff, Setael, and Seacore?

Llama is town, Seacore is leaning town.
Seteal should be an obvious read.

Quote tag fixed

[GreyICE]

Okay, so we're in the same place. I'm on the Setael wagon because the seacore one is giving me bad vibes and I'm trusting town Llama and almost-town you today. Come on, you know it's where all the cool kids will be hanging.

The seacore wagon built EASY. This one is taking work.

[Seacore]

Nacho. It's scum play 102.
Scum pull shit like that all the time. They vote for a mislynch but FOS their buddies so later they can say "look, I thought he was scummy all along"
They list three "scum reads" one of which is their buddy, but they build a weaker case on them.
Basically they're all forms of distancing in which they avoiding actually bussing, but still establish 'suspicion'

A recent example is Diddin in A Storm of Swords, whenever town did something scummy, he voted for them. Whenever his scum buddies did something scummy, he FOS'd them.

[Doombunny9]

What happened to those rereads...?

I've done them. I haven't found anything new that I haven't already talked about except that if I were to choose between the two, it would have to be Sea.

[Nachomamma8]

Why?

[Packbat]

PEdit 2: Apologies for the belated posting of this. I had intended to post it three hours ago, but apparently I forgot to press "Submit".

PEdit: Thanks for the reply, Doombunny9 - I'll respond to it in more detail when I reach that point in my reread.

Oh, look. Packbat doesn't even respond to me.

I read your post - the only adequate response would be one beginning with, "Okay, I just finished my reread, and", and I needed to sleep first. I'll be rereading or replacing out this afternoon.

Just finishing Page 2, and leaving for the bus. Biggest thing I noticed: Doombunny9's reaction to the Nachomamma8 claim starting at #24, with (a) the odd comment about vigging Nacho and (b) not seeming to realize that LyLo is too late to kill the claimed Survivor.

Also, because I am suspicious: his namechecking of Seacore in #42, when it was Twistedspoon, AurorusVox, and Glass who had been talking to him. Yes, he was the most recent player to comment on the Nachoclaim, but it doesn't sit right with me from a player who had voted for "scumcore" at #34 (and why was he sure that Seacore was scummy

then

, anyway?) to be taking advice from that same player eight posts later.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Setael

Let's do this Grey <3

Pack, if you make me regret this in the slightest, I'm burying you.

[Seacore]

I'm even happier with that

Unvote. Vote Set

[Powerrox93]

@Mod: OP update please!

OP should now be up to date. Players should also note that the votecounts contain all living players and their neighborhood positions, and appear once per page

@Nacho and GreyIce:

Please read post 571

[Powerrox93]

EBWODP: I meant post 570

[LlamaFluff]

Nacho. It's scum play 102.
Scum pull shit like that all the time. They vote for a mislynch but FOS their buddies so later they can say "look, I thought he was scummy all along"
They list three "scum reads" one of which is their buddy, but they build a weaker case on them.
Basically they're all forms of distancing in which they avoiding actually bussing, but still establish 'suspicion'

Thats scum 102 though. People who do well as scum have already taken scum play 201 which shows that 102 is just theory that when applied usually ends in losses. Also diddin is borderline VI. There are only a few situations where the Vote town FoS buddy works well for scum.

[Nachomamma8]

It makes him confirmed town because of how he interacts with Wicked's role.
Both are fairly useless without the other.

But I could get some information from watching my righboors, couldn't I?

You could, but you're most likely not going to get much.
Wicked being a position mover would allow you to watched claimed PRs and obvtowns, which would be a hell of a lot more useful than being able to watch one of Setael and Seacore...

[Doombunny9]

Why?

His reasoning for wanting to see a Jedo lynch is much, much crappier than Set's. His main reasons, if you recall are 1) To find more information (On Set mostly), and 2) Because the Jedo wagon "fell apart" (See: One person didn't vote him when he said he would. That person being Set). This case on Jedo wasn't even really a case on Jedo, it was on Set yet he parked his vote on Jedo anyway without pushing for it but rather pushing for a Set lynch. His even posts are even worse, especially the one on Pack where he doesn't even seem to make an attempt to hide the fact that he's just following everyone else.

(a) the odd comment about vigging Nacho and (b) not seeming to realize that LyLo is too late to kill the claimed Survivor.

I could have sworn someone already questioned me about this. At the time (And I beleive I said so in the next post or somewhere close. Ah well, too lazy to check ATM) I was assuming we had a vig for simplicities sake and a lynch would be just as fine. I also beleive I stated that we'd need to do it close to an endgame situation, not during an endgame situation.

[Seacore]

Please watch your quote tags Doom, Nacho asked why, I didn't.

[GreyICE]

@Mod: OP update please!

@Nacho and GreyIce:

Please read post 571

I meant it seemed fairly self-serving because sea defending town-AV and llama defending town-sea are parallels.

[LimMePls]

Vote Count 2.9

GreyICE (0)

-

Packbat (1)

- kryptinen

kryptinen (0)

-

Doombunny9 (0)

-

Setael (3)

- GreyICE, Nachomamma8, Seacore

Powerrox93 (0)

-

Seacore (4)

- Packbat, Twistedspoon, AurorusVox, Setael

LlamaFluff (0)

-

Nachomamma8 (0)

-

Twistedspoon (1)

- Doombunny9

AurorusVox (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- Powerrox93, LlamaFluff

11 votes available, 6 votes needed for an arrest

1) All players are within the posting guidelines.

Deadline is May 20, ~11 am EDT

[Setael]

@Doom re: Seacore
-When I replaced in a bit scummy
-Near the end of D1 more scummy
-Near the beginning of D2 really scummy
-Now definitely scum

GreyICE was not trying to remove your posts by calling you a bitch. I figured that little piece of information had already been explained.
I don't really see where he called your posts worthless. Mind linking me?

This:

OTOH Setael hasn't posted anything useful. Period.

The seacore wagon built EASY. This one is taking work.

Still feel this way after 610 and 611?

[Twistedspoon]

does the speed of a wagon indicate alignment in any way?

[GreyICE]

@Doom re: Seacore
-When I replaced in a bit scummy
-Near the end of D1 more scummy
-Near the beginning of D2 really scummy
-Now definitely scum

GreyICE was not trying to remove your posts by calling you a bitch. I figured that little piece of information had already been explained.
I don't really see where he called your posts worthless. Mind linking me?

This:

OTOH Setael hasn't posted anything useful. Period.

The seacore wagon built EASY. This one is taking work.

Still feel this way after 610 and 611?

What you mean after I pushed Nacho for pages and pages?

Yeah. This one takes a lot of work. And I feel comfortable about the alignments of pretty much everyone on it except maybe seacore (and even if you're both scum I don't see how Seacore CAN'T vote for you here).

Also your posts are absolutely full of IoA. All over the place. Lemme do a markup on one of your "analysis posts" to show the town what I mean.

Analysis of the shift from Jedo to Power:

Post 163 I put Jedo at L-1 and the wagon was Quaroath, Doombunny9, Packbat, Nachomamma8, Twistedspoon, me.

Nacho is the first to unvote, saying he still thinks Jedo is scum, but wants to wagon Power.

Both of these are information. Anyone reading the thread can find this out.

And, for the grand finale:

Unvote, Vote: Powerrox

I'm still getting a fairly strong scumread from Jedi, but I can't in good consciousness let Powerlurker coast through this >.>

Seacore votes Power, sheeping Nacho and saying he'd have posted the same thing if Nacho hadn't first. If Jedo is scum, this vote looks really bad as an attempt at momentum for the Power wagon and shifting attention away from Jedo. Well, this combined with Seacore's previous defense/sketchy stance on Jedo's slot.

Then AV, Doombunny and Krypt all vote Power.

Information, again.

Doombunny's move from Jedo to Power is the most cautious - he first posts that he thinks the case is good but wants to hear from both Jedo and Power before he thinks about switching his vote, and he asks Seacore about his vote. When he votes Power a bit later he says it's for Power's omgus Nacho vote and then he says "I was beginning to have to have second thoughts on Jedo anyway assuming what he said about playing to his meta is true."

Information

I don't like this - that first of all he feels he needs to give a reason for unvoting Jedo (I think scum who are bussing would be more likely to do this) and second that it's such a weak reason and he's just assuming about the meta.

First piece of real analysis.

So then Quaroth puts him at L-1, giving a vague reason about him giving little content. He mentions Jedo in this post, but just to accuse him of defending Krypt.

Information

Then Packbat unvotes.

In any case, based on his recent posting, I've decided to

UNVOTE: Jedo the Jedi

...because from the way he's approaching it, he really does seem sincere. Comments on the rest when I finally get to the reread.

Don't like this either. Scum can certainly seem sincere.

Doesn't say Packbat is wrong, just that the reasoning doesn't appeal to her.

So basically, Nacho is the only one who moved from Jedo to Power that I don't find suspicious.

Nice analysis.

So then after the watcher claim, none of the Jedo voters go back to Jedo. Doombunny votes Quaroth saying he's choosing between Pack and Quar for posting few opinions or new info. Doesn't mention Jedo at all. Based on his post when switching, Doom would've been the most likely to re-vote Jedo after the watcher claim. Not mentioning Jedo at all here is suspect.

Information.

Quaroth staying on the Power wagon and not mentioning Jedo is even more suspect, since he supposedly still found Jedo really scummy when he voted Power. Quaroth could've been bussing Jedo and doesn't want to switch back for fear of getting late-day momentum on a wagon he never really wanted to be successful.

Information.

Jedo's my #1 scum read. I think it's very likely that at least one of the Jedo to Power swingers is a scum buddy, and other Power voters could also be buddies who wanted to push the Power wagon to get the pressure off Jedo. (Obviously I'm looking at Seacore here.) Granted, this is all speculation until Jedo flips.

FOS like 5 different people?

I will bake cookies for anyone who votes Jedo. Easter shaped sugar cookies. Bunnies and eggs and such.

I'm willing to vote Quaroth to avoid no lynch, but no one will get cookies in that case.

It's a long post, but lemme summarize it:

"I don't like the way that votes quickly moved off Jedo. Doombunny is especially suspicious because he seemed to need reasons to move his vote off Jedo, which is something I think scum would do when unvoting a buddy. Packbat didn't have any good reason to unvote, and that's scummy too. Most of the rest didn't give good reasons, so that's scummy. The only one who isn't scummy is the guy who isn't town."

Yeah. Most of your wall posts boil down to this sort of useless garbage. Doombunny is scummy because he wanted reasons to vote for someone besides Jedo, Packbat is scummy because he didn't have good reasons for voting someone who wasn't Jedo, and so on and so forth.

Long, long, long posts of total garbage.

[Doombunny9]

@Set- Was your growing suspicions on Sea fairly steady or were there certain events/posts that really stuck out and made him jump out?

@Twisted- I could have sworn I've asked you some questions? Feel like answering them? I'm beginning to doubt that you're even reading the thread.

[Twistedspoon]

1. Can you make a case on why you think Sea is scummy other than "He voted himself and I wanted to jump on a bandwagon to pull off a mislynch herp derp"?
2. Why do you think Set is town?

1) not easily. No. Gut maybe
2) I've played with set before. Set played similarly

@TS - Why did you vote JJ yesterday? Why not today?

wicked convinced me not to. He had a very strong town read on JJ