Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[ooba]

Just doing some reshuffling. (I'll claim why I did this during MC)

Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim, Faraday
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum, RayFrost

Magua - Will go to team list in which a player is lynched today.

[Faraday]

looks goodie.

v/la for next couple a days. feel free to lynch plum.

[RayFrost]

I'd really love it if the "teem ooba" went justice for the worship. I'll come out and say that I have an ability that makes it

so fucking worth it

.

Plum: I actually found the image when I posted that, but then I forgot to bookmark it. I found a new one, after three minutes of searching.



Going on to say that, assuming I get six faith, that I can make it so I die along with one of VPB's vig shots while still being of use from the town afterward. He won't need to use one on me (that's assuming redirect-esque abilities count before kills).

There is 100% no need to lynch me at this time. If I get six faith and am still alive on d4, I'll tell you guys what I have in mind.

By the way,

Unvote: Parama

- thank you bro

[RayFrost]

Scum that should be lynched even if someone claims daycop with an innocent on them: D[ark]A[rts], VV, AGM

People that are scum but not nearly as clearly obvious ubar scum as the above: singer, nicki minaj

Puts her as semi-scum but not real super scum. Given Nicki Minaj has already flipped Town.

Yes... because there totally were posts by singer that showed she was scum. Hind sight, etc.

The thing I really dislike about Singer is the issue she made about the Mothrax PM which arguably lead to the modkill. I can't help but think that was deliberate.

Vote: Quadz

He's scum too.

Erm. What?

Singer didn't make a big deal: AGM, demonic angels, and myself, IIRC, were the main people discussing it at the time the mod team came to a decision. Singer at most paid lip service to the topic, while AGM and DA were pushing heavily on it having an impact on the game.

I fail to see why you don't find them suspect and choose to instead single out SS.

Softdefend Singer when she was far from a viable lynch (plus when they were planning to pull the Neighborizer gambit???).

It's not a soft defend. It's calling sotty outon what I perceived to be a misrepresentation of the situation: the statement that singer made a big deal of the PM. After further discussion, I dropped the subject because I understood what sotty meant.

In the case that he flips scum, I will post an image of someone eating a hat.

Didn't post this. A Townie might suck up the fact that he was wrong about Quadz and eat his crow and get on with it; this smacks of confidence, possibly faked - and a strong desire not to go back to how wrong he was about Quadz or even touch the Quadzlynch

at all

.

I forgot to bookmark my desired image. I then got annoyed and didn't feel like finding a new one because I wanted the image that I found the first time. ... how am I not eating my crow now? Yes, because scum

should

hard press their belief that their lynched-buddy is still town in their eyes.

Well, I have a bias that makes me want plum to stay alive. One I don't want to delve into.

Spill. Hell, it looks like many players want me lynched today anyway. And I don't see much attempted scumhunting out of you today. If there's enough pressure on me to take me down I'm more than happy to take you down with.

Erm, that requires my claiming my role name. If people want me to do it, I will, but...~

[RayFrost]

By the way, for those of you watching at home:

I voted parama because I didn't like his "promizin rayfrosteh case" without actually getting around to the rayfrosteh case. If it had been shit, he'd be confirmed as scum for me in contrast with my read of him at the time. The case isn't shit, so he's town like I thought. Yipee.

I'd post "/inb4 people say lolscum" but then I'd be called out for "preemptive defensiveness" which is a bullshit tell that people still use for some reason, so I'm writing this instead while I actually get up the motivation to read this entire thread.

[RayFrost]

So um guys. I'm on page 7. I'd give my current reads on stuff from way back there, but my reads would be so change-y that I'd rather just stick with reading. For the quick version of the reads I've got: you guys should be voting one of VV, Duplicity, or... VV.
Not going to vote until I'm one reading.
Salutations to MoI, though. By the by, I feel like breadcrumbing for no reason. Isn't that just peachy? I won't, though. No point. Breadcrumbs may come later, though. Be on the lookout... or something. Content may come within the next 24 hours too. Maybe. Depends on the weather (I wish I was speaking in a figurative sense here....).

Look at this post. In all its worthless glory. Yes, hypocrite, but... nope, there's no scumhunting here.

Yes, because I'd have something to say when I just got prodded and am on page 7 that was completely worthwhile. Makes

perfect

sense. I know I said you're case isn't shit, but that is hardly saying it's good.

Guys, quadz is town.
Discuss.

"hey maybe if I call my buddy town they'll think 'oh scum wouldn't call their buddy town so ray is town' so I think I'll do that"

"Hey maybe if I put things in quotes people will think this is an accurate representation of what happened"

[quote="Parapills"

Page 22.

Vote: DemonicAngel

People that shouldn't be dying even if someone claims daycop with a guilty result (hint: the daycop's scum): MoI, Equinox, VPB, Magua, Hito, Gamma
People that are town but not nearly as clearly obvious ubar town as the above: Faraday, DDD, Quadz, Mothrax (mothrax is town due to associative tells based off of those voting him rather than his individual play), Parama, sotty, plum
Scum that should be lynched even if someone claims daycop with an innocent on them: D[ark]A[rts], VV, AGM
People that are scum but not nearly as clearly obvious ubar scum as the above: singer, nicki minaj
Null with more flavors than baskin robin's: Everyone else

Hey look, reads. Mind backing them up? Huh? No? OK. [/quote]

Hypocrisy bro. Aside from that, I wasn't done reading the thread. Since my reads weren't set yet, I opted to leave them unbacked. Things change, and I prefer to have a complete compilation of logic rather than an incomplete one.

I'm too lazy to go grab the posts, but...:
His push toward DDD seems highly unreasonable for scum to do. His points (though wrong) don't feel contrived in that regard, and the conviction he put into his case there doesn't have the urgency or flailing aspect to it that would be likely to come from scum that's so close to being sent to the grave. His posts lack the cornered feel that I'd expect scum to have when run up so far, and I honestly didn't understand the original suspicion on him in the first place.

The first thought process we've seen from Rayfrost is his thought process behind now-confirmed scum being town.
We don't see the thought process for his vote, though. Such a shame.

Nobody asked.

To be honest, I didn't have any kind of real read on him when I posted my "Quadz is town. Discuss."
Discuss.

I think this is a scum claim. Really, it is.

I guess you aren't the only one who has had a meta change. I do the discuss thing a lot. Reaction fishing is my hobby and job. Discuss.

ISO 15. Oh lord. Elaborations on town reads, and then saying "guy X could be scum or town for this reason" doesn't qualify as useful content.

Because saying why I think people are town is not useful. Makes sen- owait, "explanations for your reads" was said earlier like it was important. Damn, you've contradicted yourself. Confirmation bias, bro.

@Ray - It makes no sense for you to have not found the thread for so long if you were scum because your role PM would have had a scum

daytalk QT link

and your buddies would have told you to post before you did.
Also, it seems that a modkill would be enough punishment for a modkill. And besides, battery being reduced today is no biggie since we know quadz is scum. Power lynch.

Scumslip? VP, that was bad. Like really, really bad. There's NO statement ANYWHERE of daytalk.

Vote: VP Baltar

mountain molehill etc.

You don't scumslip, you're right. I'll walk on by this, but I don't really feel that your point is valid. I've had instances where I've been scum, not known about the game thread, and ended up being prodded (like I was here) before I even realized the game was open. By the by, the game I'm recalling this from happens to be MoCo. Soooooo... yeah. Got any valid reasons for finding me town, or is that it? If that's it, it seems a bit of a stretch to call me a "strong" town read of any kind.
Also, you didn't explain the hito / plum scum reads. Please do so. Now, preferably.

Unvote

"Oh wait, my attack is BS. I guess I shouldn't bother trying to push a counterwagon."

Cool story bro.

...

Hi equinox. How's the whole reading up on the game thing going? Got any reads to share with us? How about a list of people you think are scum? CAn you do that for me?

Rayfrost didn't kill Equi, but god knows who did, so anyone saying "olol he's town because of this" can screw off. If anything, it shows he doesn't care about who's killed as long as they're town.

Yes, because not paying attention to the deaths is a tell on alignment. Just like the fact I had to be prodded to even know this game had started is a tell on alignment. (pro-tip: THEY AREN'T)

Quadz is town, the argument that he's scum is pitiful. The pushes on him are 90% "QUADZ IZ R SCUM, VOET HIM NAO" and 10% remotely valid stuff. I can guarantee you that scum are on this wagon. GUARANTEE.

"OMG THERE'S SCUM ON THIS WAGON BECAUSE THERE IS LITERALLY ALWAYS SCUM ON A LYNCH WAGON JUST FYI BUT I'M GOING TO ACT LIKE I DON'T KNOW THIS OLOL."
Thanks for nothing.
And don't go "oh scum wouldn't defend his buddy so hard" because that's BS and WIFOM and ReaperCharlie would have a field day with it.
Random unrelated though: I hope there's a ReaperCharlie role in this game, because he's probably a miller and a hated townie and that would be hilarious.

"I say there's scum on this lynch wagon but I'm going to pretend that I don't know there is almost always scum on a lynch wagon" - wut. I'm going to pretend to not know what I am saying I know.

DA is amazing. MoIscum, Rayfrostscum, quadzscum, and hitoscum all caught!

I wouldn't be surprised if this was scum trying to play off an

incredibly good call

with sarcasm. yes it's kinda boosting Fate's ego by saying that but

I wouldn't be surprised if this was town trying to play off an

incorrect read on him

with sarcasm. Yes, it's kinda saying that KATSUKI DOESN'T HAVE SHIT ON ME but

Unvote, Vote: Demonic Angel

- I believe faraday's just trolling at this point. His play makes no sense to me otherwise, but I honestly can't get a handle on my read of him until I feel certain he's not doing this shit deliberately..

It seriously looks like he's trying to push whatever lynch he can at this point. Votes don't stay very long and every wagon that doesn't take off immediately gets the ax.

Erm, I don't get "wagons" - wagon requires more than just my vote. I ax'd my faraday suspicion based off of the fact he's inscrutable for me.

Parama, didn't you say you had a case somewhere n that head of yours? If so, eel free to, I dunno... post it sometime. In the meantime, have a healthy bowl of blatant OMGUS.

Vote: Parama

What happened to VPBFaradyDAeveryothertownplayeryou'vevoted?
The previous accusation stands, Your Honor.

Calling everybody I voted town? Lol.

parama's... parama. I've played with him before, and he feels town.

Parama's actually a good place to vote for the time being.

Back to back posts, people. Back to back.

I actually did some reading in this game. It's amazing, really.

They really make a lovely contrast, don't they.

You're welcome.

[RayFrost]

Urgh. Motivation to read 50 pages. So. Hard. To. Get.

Okay, self-imposed rule: read this entire thread and make sense of it or replace out. People deserve stuff.

[Katsuki]

Don't worry Rayray the vig will save the replacement from having to read an entire game only to end up with rope.

[Demonic Angel]

Don't worry Rayray the vig will save the replacement from having to read an entire game only to end up with rope.

[Demonic Angel]

You should bus MOI in the meantime though. At least make yourself useful, y'know?

[VP Baltar]

I think I should have enough faith to make VP a PGO tonight.

I am down with this as well. If you're reasonably certain you'll have enough faith (don't tell us any details), just power me up with that and the doc can protect someone else tonight. Neither the Tigers or the SK are going to target me for a kill if they are going to get shot right back. They don't have the numbers.

Right. VPB's abilities lean SK over Town to me

Sure thing darlin'. I was scum for my QT knowledge, now I'm SK cause I just made you look pretty stupid for your weak wagon attempt on me. You scums have too much pride to go slinking away now. Get your buddy MoI over here to back you on this line of malarky. I'll just shoot you both in the face anyhow.

Sottyrulez is my newest addition to the scumlist.

wtf? No. You guys just lost all credibility of your reads with this.

Also VP is TOTALLY Tahlridaniur with his ABR fake-claim.

Also this. The idea of giving an SK the chance to shorten the day and shoot 3 people is outrageous from a balance perspective. Leave it to you though, Fate. I'm not going to back you anymore when you're town cause you always turn on me stupidly and then you'll be all apologetic after the game. Well not this time! No GreyICE to back you and I have a bullet with your name on it!

Don't worry if town keeps playing like this shit and LOLLYNCH ALL DA BUSSORZ, you'll be in a PD that town SHOULD give you over scum.

Nah, my next shot is going to dispense great justice. You'll see.

I'd rather not power up Ray with all of his begging to be powered up. He's probably scum that feels he's headed for the shitter, so let's avoid that.

[Faraday]

could lynch ray and superpower justice then, maybe. though plumscum, <insert low picking fruit joke>

[VP Baltar]

I'm not 100% on ray scum yet, he COULD just be playing really badly here (unlikely, I know), but MoI and Plum look pretty much confirmed scum here. I'd be willing to lynch them in whatever order. Maybe they can plead their cases as to why they should live now that I effectively pants them with my claim.

[RayFrost]

I could try to make it easier on all of us and claim, but possibility of fakeclaims etc. Goig to the store now. Will sit down and get to work after I'm back from that.

Much love and tater tots to all! /MoCo

[RayFrost]

Also, VPB...

wouldn't my being scummy here immediately imply I'm playing badly in either of your scenarios? If I'm scum, being scummy like this would be rather terrible in comparison to the norm play-wise. If I'm town, I'm playing badly by seeming scummy and having a (so far) bad scumdar. Wait for the read through. Going to be honest in saying I skimmed the first time.

[VP Baltar]

I was referring to your scumhunting being terrible here. Which you're not terrible. I know self-deprecation is a good game to play as scum when you want people off your back, but I know your abilities and they aren't nearly as bad as you like to downplay them. Also, you better no claim anything.

@DDD - can you expand on what you said about other personalities in this game messing with our reads of each other. I don't quite understand.

[RayFrost]

I was referring to your scumhunting being terrible here. Which you're not terrible. I know self-deprecation is a good game to play as scum when you want people off your back, but I know your abilities and they aren't nearly as bad as you like to downplay them. Also, you better no claim anything.

@DDD - can you expand on what you said about other personalities in this game messing with our reads of each other. I don't quite understand.

I honestly and sincerely believe my scumhunting to not be as good as people (you) make it up to be. It's easy to scumhunt when people are obv-town. I have the fortune of people being obv-town quite a bit. That or dying early (a la counter claiming scum as a tracker with a town-tracker already flipped when said scum was going to be lynched despite their fakeclaimed action and as a result getting killed that night) is the only reason I seem like I have good play.

Note that the above statements are independent of my alignment.

By the way, I'm back.

Suffering

Reading now.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, but I mean, myself and others have basically put this game into easy mode. I don't see why you're having so much trouble. Anyhow, ready to hear your thoughts after reading.

[Seraphim]

Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim, Faraday
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum, RayFrost

Anyone have any objections to this list which ooba posted above? I see no problems.

People worshiping ooba should ALL worship justice or balance...I don't see RayFrost as scum, so there should be no problem there if we worship justice. We can decide about balance too I guess.

Unless VP wants us to worship something else, people worshiping VP should be worshiping solism.

I may not be worshiping solism for previously stated reasons...I may be using an ability tonight. If I can use my uber-screw-up ability that isn't PGO, I will be targeting VP with it. Who should I use the PGO on? I'm receiving conflicting reports.

[VP Baltar]

Since I only need two worships for my double vig, I wouldn't mind having two v. likely town and the rest v. likely scum on my team. That way the scum are either forced to worship Solism or build more incriminating data against themselves. Thoughts?

[RayFrost]

So apparently I'm a slow reader. I just barely started page 9. I'm going to post my notes so far just to avoid my notepad getting too clogged up. (that and I don't want a single giant post like [redacted: lots of text].

This read, in contrast with other ones I've done, will be performed under the knowledge that I have regarding alignments.

Seraphim early posts re: minaj read town.

Sotty's miller claim is believable at first glance...

and then this post blows that shit out of the water. Hard. With a barrage of cannonballs. A very quick "o yah, TOWN" by quadz-scum. No questions or anything, just a granting of "town cred" to sotty.

Starting Page 3, why is faraday so infuckingscrutable for me? Seriously. This is bugging me. I know you guys say he's town, and I'm fine with that, but I'm frustrated by the fact I can't follow the track you take with it. Maybe I'll see it later in my read through.

Posts like these explain the faraday read I suppose. Leaning town toward him now.

Point number 1 by plum seems to be incomplete. "possibly something akin to skittishness, possibly not - but the" <--- Plum, finish this sentence for me?

Plum not commenting on any reads aside frm nm = bad. Scummy kind of bad.

Am I wrong for feeling like this is a scumbuddy saying to another scumbuddy "I'm not getting your back, dude."

Yeah, quadz practically confirmed faraday as town here. How the fuck wasn't I seeing this befo- oh right. I thought quadz was town.

I know hito and quadz are both dead, but this would be such a juicy connection post otherwise. "I agree with faraday but I'm not going to vote quadz"

I really don't like this post, but it really feels more like a bad town play more than a bad scum play. Jumping the gun.

This with AGM's reaction supports the above theory.

Arguments like these are indicative of foolishness more than indicative of scum. The sheer insanity... I really can't buy scum pushing something like this. And believing it.

I find myself agreeing with gamma

I like this post by MoI: it comments on the important things in the gme and provides some analyis. The only issue I have is the modicum of response to quaz in comparison to his other stuff. It feels iffy to me.

Really not sure if I like the "o yah, we're the same alignment as gamma!"

I agree with my apprentice (going to be my name for equinox from now on... even though she has long since left my wing).

This post says something about magua's alignment. I can't tell either way atm, so I'll just leave this here.

I know I said quadz was town, but this reads bad to me. It's not so much the "vote vv" as the fact I haven't found much of any mention ofquadz in MoI's postings, and none of it was anything to make MoI go "vote VV, it is the logical course of action" (which implies that voting quadz is

illogical

: only reason this would be true would be a quadz town read, which MoI has conspicuously lacked in his claimed reads). I'd be fine with an out and out defense of quadz, but this really feels like a soft pedal.

[RayFrost]

By the way, not really sure how to take hito's calls of gamma / faraday / etc town. I'm going to go with null on them, as hito's a strong enough player to not hedge his bets with those types of things.

[RayFrost]

Too tire to finish tonight. I'll clean up tomorrow, since I have all day to get to this in contrast with a couple hours that I'd like to devote to something other than keeping my eyes open in front of a computer. You'll have to settle for the unfinished notes until the 'morrow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Enlighten me on why you care.

Why would you want to know this information, exactly?

Because I’m also playing the game and have information at my disposal? Pro-Tip – just because I’ve got a bunch of players saying “MoI is scum” doesn’t mean I’m going to stop playing to my win condition.

I ask because VPB’s claim as he has given it means he is likely lying and his kill-shot is a Factional Power.

I’m going to go ahead and do my full-claim now so I can support why I believe this to be true –

I’m the High Priest of Elmo, domains Austerity and Balance.

My abilities and casts

–

Donation – I can give a target player all faith I receive the following Night for domains that player is NOT a part of.

Worship – obv

Casts

–

1. Time Slow – All actions by a target player resolve the following Night.
2. Moderation – Any cast that takes more than 2 faith are blocked that Night.
5. Persistence of Memory – I gain all the casts of a Dead player. One shot per game.

Night actions

–

N0 and N1 I worshiped Balance.
N1 I received 3 Faith and N2 I received 2 faith.

N2 I used Moderation – my theory being that scum are more likely to have generated concentrated faith for themselves and thus were more likely to be benefited by large faith casts than Town.

All of VPB’s claimed casts take more than 2 Faith. Unless I was blocked then there is no way he used Way of the Rampage to kill hito.

Thus he’s likely lying, used a Factional kill and thus scum of some flavor.

I’m claiming all this information so that when I flip Town everyone will know I have no reason to lie about this information.

My vote stays on VPB for obvious reasons. And I’m not going to bother agreeing to any plan that requires me to worship for VPB’s benefit.

--

@Everyone voting for me

– The ‘case’ on me is that I didn’t vote Quadz and I ‘attacked’ VPB. Far from overwhelming. When I flip Town I’d suggest looking at those who mindlessly pushed my lynch. You will not do it as no-one ever generally looks back but it would be a good place to find some scum besides VPB.

--

1) MoI - People were already starting to call him scum yesterday, and MoI has played in a lot of games with a lot of people, which means he might be pretty readable at this point. Also, the "Why isn't MoI dead" argument will always come up eventually. Not a good candidate for survival.

Absolutely horrid. Turn in your scum-hunting card if you aren’t scum AGM.

Here’s a question

– why isn’t every single player who is Obv-Town already dead? Or does that completely flawed logic only apply to me?

--

I think I should have enough faith to make VP a PGO tonight. This runs the risk of killing off our doctor though.

Yeah, let’s not make a scum of some flavor a PGO …

--

quadz certainly had kill options, though they all were restrictive in some way iirc.

I think it's quite likely that to kill scum need to Cast given Quadz's claim and killflavors.

Yes, because quadz couldn’t possibly have invented those claims to give himself Vig cred.

And I think that either most kills take 2 or less Faith to cast (based on my claimed action above) or they are non-casts since 4 people died last night.

--

Magna’s 1104 is just a terrible, terrible argument given that I’m pretty sure I did the exact same thing and I know my alignment is town.

No, try again. Way to ignore 987 which 1104 is a summary of. Good job.

--

SO LETS LYNCH MOI AND WHEN HE FLIPS SCUM LYNCH THE GUY WHO CAUGHT THEM ALL.

So after I flip Town you can get the rope yourself? Deal.

--

Rayfrost is probably scum – I reference his buddying to me for no reason yesterday when I wasn’t Pro-Quadz lynch and 1245, where today on ‘re-read’ suddenly my not thinking Quadz was scum is suspect. Odd that his opinion suddenly shifts with the wind.

[ooba]

Since I only need two worships for my double vig, I wouldn't mind having two v. likely town and the rest v. likely scum on my team. That way the scum are either forced to worship Solism or build more incriminating data against themselves. Thoughts?

Keep in mind that townies who have useful abilities might be better off using that instead of worshiping - therefore if someone did not worship, they better be able to convince the town that the tradeoff was worth it ..

P-edit: Reading Magna's post