Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[mith]

It's late, so I'll make this quick... A summary of why I think DGB is scum:

1. Reading through her early posts, I don't get the feeling that she is scumhunting; her SocioPath vote has all the weight of a random vote, yet she sticks to it doggedly and brushes aside differing reads and alternative suspects alive. (The Thor stuff since she returned from V/LA looks a bit more like scumhunting... though it also looks like lashing out in a last ditch effort shift attention off herself and/or cause confusion before she dies.)

2. The "I can't tell the Llamas apart" stuff has already been discussed... feels like an act.

3. I'm not sure what "Klazam hangs a bit lower than Sociopath on the fruit tree." even means in 178... but directing Llamarble toward SocioPath over Klazam based only on the suggested pairing sets off alarm bells.

DGB is certainly sporadic, but she doesn't act without reason - and the reasons here don't add up to town in my book.

LlamaFluff: What's the case on Sevei?

[InflatablePie]

A summary of why I think DGB is scum

Then vote her.

Content tomorrow during Mafia Catch-Up Day, barring hammer.

[Chris B]

We've been one off a lynch for some time. So I want to ask this question to the following:

Roll up, roll up. It's time to play 'explain the bleeding obvious.

I want to know why there is so little scum hunting going on. Your questions are pretty loaded in the direction of gelling my lynch into a foregone conclusion.

If I wanted you lynched, I WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR YOU. How is this so difficult for you to understand? You put words into my mouth - even if it wasn't a quote, it was blatant misrepresentation. It's not like I couldn't defend a vote on you.

We now have a question everyone can answer. I want people to clarify their positions on this specific point.

So, on that point, Thor - why did you avoid answering? That was some fairly obvious evasion.

It should be pretty clear that there is a proportion of scum that doesn't want to hammer a townie.

It's almost like I want people to explain why they think you're town or not.

[Thor665]

So, on that point, Thor - why did you avoid answering? That was some fairly obvious evasion.

I think I actually quite directly answered the question, I just evaded doing so in the particular way you had requested. You're asking me to generally sell you on being the hammer, I refuted with a statement that you should either want to be the hammer or not, and I didn't feel a need to cajole you into it. That's answering your question. How is it not?

[Thor665]

A summary of why I think DGB is scum

Then vote her.

[Chris B]

So, on that point, Thor - why did you avoid answering? That was some fairly obvious evasion.

I think I actually quite directly answered the question, I just evaded doing so in the particular way you had requested. You're asking me to generally sell you on being the hammer, I refuted with a statement that you should either want to be the hammer or not, and I didn't feel a need to cajole you into it. That's answering your question. How is it not?

Okay. Could you summarise why you think DGB is scum, please?

[Thor665]

@Chris B

Though i consider my skills reading DGB to be roughly akin to my skills reading braille, my team of birdies all generally agree that DGB 1. doesn't care for town games and 2. would have been more...DGBish (derpy? I dunno) if she had been town. Since I can't read the silly bint anyway, she's a solid A1 lynch in my opinion.

I'll add in Socio/my call on how she's called some things scummy and then later did those things (meta defense) which is pretty silly, since when people are asked about meta it's not scummy to answer the question by referencing meta - the fact she claimed it looked scummy when others did it then becomes a really sketchy scumtell. Plus, she did it on me, and I'm awesome and have a sweet beard, so she was obviously off her rocker.

That's the long and short of it from me, if you're one of those players who believes a wallpost case is somehow more townish than just pretend I quoted every instance she brought up meta and blathered on for about a paragraph (repeating myself semi-constantly) about how she's being scummy again, and also probably dug up the Metropolis and SA games she was in and had another long speech about how research there shows a lack of enjoyment in dull roles and dull setups. Plus I could probably have mixed in a lengthy spiel of point by point insults that I'd pass off as 'analysis' wherein I attack everything she ever said to me and kept saying insightful things that would really just be summed up as 'look, I think she's flaling' when she attacked me after coming back to the game.

[TheButtonmen]

D1VC10:

DGB (6): Socio, Thor, IP, Equinox, Sotty, mith
Llamarble (2): Sevei, ChrisB
Thor (2): Llamarble, DGB
Sevei (1): LlamaFluff


Not Voting: DH, Klazam

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.

[Sevei]

@Sevei:
I have limited access right now but I think I actually did address your L - 3 thing. I pointed it out because I checked before voting and thought the information would be useful. I point out lynch threshold often. Your other point was about me "trying to look like scumhunting anxiously," which I found beneath response. What looks like scumhunting is often scumhunting. I find my time far more usefully spent scumhunting than letting myself be locked down by answering every little nitpick with an explanation from first principles. People realize I'm town a lot faster when I'm helping find scum anyway. You said I hadn't mentioned DGB, which I think was true but I have since read her. I don't like this wagon and would appreciate no hammer at least until after I've gone home (evening 22nd) and really thoroughly evaluated the game.

I wasn't concerned with the nitty-gritty details so much as I was the connection I pointed out between you and DGB. You only mentioned DGB after I pointed out you hadn't, yet there was no indication in any of your posting that you found an actual NEED to investigate her, which makes me believe that you wouldn't have done so if I hadn't made an issue of it.

When you did finally talk about her, you didn't acknowledge that anyone had prompted you, nor did you place your investigation in any sort of context. Why go to the trouble to "investigate" someone you haven't/don't think is scummy and then conclude they are town instead of just saying you haven't talked about them because you don't think they are scum in the first place? DGB did the same thing to you when prompted by Sotty, and came to the same conclusion, and since her return, hasn't said one thing about her read on me or my comments about the connection between the two of you, even after I had addressed it with you.

@Mith, Chris, and Llamafluff: Not stalling, just waiting. I wanted to see what DGB had to say in response to her wagon. I saw no reason to end a day while the lead wagon was on V/LA, especially when it's only D1 and there are other scum. My read on DGB was also somewhat contingent on my Marble-read, and I wanted to think about my options and discuss them with my team before proceeding.

Also, since Fluff is looking for meta, I can refer you to the last game I finished (Newbie 1056) when I had a similar read on two players, one of whom flipped scum on D1, and the other whom I tunneled into oblivion a couple of days later before he flipped town (and scum subsequently won the game the next day). I didn't want to make the same mistakes again with Marble/DGB. (And as for how talkative I am--I assume you're referring to my play in the LOTR mini? I didn't get really talkative until D3, if you remember. I don't tend to be a really an aggressive player on D1.)

As for hammering, I'm more than ready for that based on the comments DGB has (or moreso,

hasn't

) made since returning from V/LA.

Vote: DGB

[LlamaFluff]

@mith - Sevei is scum because

1) First post is massive excuses as why she hasnt posted coupled with a shamless wagon on marble due to what sotty said + trying to hard to look town

2) Shift her main points from not actually scumhunting but trying to tie marble and DGB together, opening justification to vote either if one flips scum, or be able to draw on "parings" with both unflipped to throw down a hammer. Look for her DGB case. Its not there. The ENTIRE case on DGB from Sevei is "marble is scum so DGB is also scum" and not "commenting" on things, which DGB has been doing. Infact she is pushing a Thor case right now which I really sorta like.

Thinking this is Sevei-Thor-mith as our trio.

Smart money says DGB was town.

[Sevei]

That's sort of an oversimplification of what I've said about Marble/DGB.

DGB had a scum read on me before her V/LA, and when she came back, didn't address that at all. She also didn't address what I said about her and Marble even though she was accusing SP of OMGUS voting her. She completely avoided what I said about the two of them at all. Marble also avoided what I said, and ONLY made a case on her after I said he would, but had no obvious reason for making a case on her aside from my comment. DGB did the SAME THING when Sotty asked her about Marble. I see this as being motivated by scum-intent. Why? A) They avoid bussing; B) when called on it, attempt to appear town by "investigating" a particular person; C) going through a whole song and dance to come up with a "Town" read on someone they've NEVER expressed suspicion of before when a simple "I think they're town or null" would suffice.

I also mentioned this:

Also not buying that DGB is confused about the Llamas as she claims not once but twice. (Posts 176 and 178) She's not expressed this confusion before, when addressing Fluff.

[Equinox]

I'm back, so now you get to put up with me spamming before the thread lock!

Why should one of the rest of us hammer this lynch? In no more than a paragraph, please.

DrippingGoofball knows I am town; thus, she is scum. ^*

All right, joking aside, her town read of me despite what happened in that game I linked in the asterisk raised flags. Her reaction to the wagon reads like scum frustrated that she's getting called out for the wrong reasons, as well. Further, she's calling out Thor665 for making "baseless meta arguments" when that's the exact same thing I did with InflatablePie, except that I was nowhere near as explicit as Thor665 has been.

Now reads: My town reads are solid; my teammates agree with me, so I know I'm not insane. LlamaFluff is probably town. Llamarble needs to provide hard and fast content when the sun rises. I'd like to know where Sevei stands on more than DrippingGoofball/Llamarble, and she needs to post more content in general. (Sevei's hammer after LlamaFluff's call to move to his Sevei wagon also raises flags, hopefully white ones.) Tweets tell me that SocioPath might be scum; I can't read the guy for beans, but I'll give it a shot again with a quick skim after this.

Also I saw that you didn't like DGB's townread on you, but I disagreed with your dislike. I think "I am not obvtown" is something very hard / weird for scum to say, so DGB's response after made plenty sense to me as well.

Fun fact: DrippingGoofball hasn't responded to that charge from me at all, so there's no "response after" of which to make sense. If you meant this, that is null; if anything, scum seem to think I'm more obvtown than town does.

[Sotty7]

Sevei, if your DGB read relied on your marble read, why not wait until marble was back from his V/LA and actually posting content before hammering?

Also, I have no clue who Chris B finds scummy. This is not a good thing.

[Sevei]

Because her posting AFTER her V/LA gave me a more solid read on her.

[InflatablePie]

The Voices™ are giving me a money-back guarantee in Sevei-scum, but are also saying that DGB is good at talking her way out of lynches as scum.

wat do

A summary of why I think DGB is scum

Then vote her.

*blush while sad trombone music plays*

[Equinox]

Hey, Sevei. i herd u liek scum. Confirm/deny?

The Voices™ are giving me a money-back guarantee in Sevei-scum, but are also saying that DGB is good at talking her way out of lynches as scum.

I'd say DrippingGoofball tried.

[Sevei]

Not really. I've been scum in one game since I started playing and it didn't go well. Nacho busted me.

[Equinox]

Not really. I've been scum in one game since I started playing and it didn't go well. Nacho busted me.

Can I get a link (or game name), please?

[Sevei]

Yep. I replaced in on D1, and I think my first post is the top of page nine. It was also my first game on site. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15198

Most significant town games are Open 252 and 254, Mini-Theme 1119, Newbie 1056.

[SocioPath]

Tomorrow we should be able to wrap this game up.

[InflatablePie]

Why should one of the rest of us hammer this lynch? In no more than a paragraph, please.

Because she's scum. The Voices™ say so, the fact that she hasn't been hammered yet after so much discussion and being at L-1 says so, some of my town reads are saying so (Socio, equi) and my gut says so.

This Day has gone far too long for my liking and I want blood. I don't care anymore, I am insanely bored with this game, and if she's not scum

you can lynch me tomorrow

. Sound good?

I will only vote Sevei if this wagon is dissolved and more votes on Sevei piling on. If there's even a chance at DGB being lynched, I want her to be.

Go ahead DGB, point out how anti-town I'm being by not posting any original thoughts but still pushing your lynch. I'm waiting.

[Equinox]

This Day has gone far too long for my liking and I want blood. I don't care anymore, I am insanely bored with this game, and if she's not scum

you can lynch me tomorrow

. Sound good?

What is this blasphemy coming from your mouth, InflatablePie?

(Also, I'm pretty sure Sevei hammered. Though it's pretty much public knowledge that I stink at arithmetic, so...)

[InflatablePie]

I completely missed that vote. I'm tired and spent so much time catching up in another game; I'm a bit burnt out. >_<

THANKS FOR BUSSING SEVEI

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: *THANKS FOR BUSSING, SEVEI

commas help with reading comprehension

[InflatablePie]

This Day has gone far too long for my liking and I want blood. I don't care anymore, I am insanely bored with this game, and if she's not scum

you can lynch me tomorrow

. Sound good?

What is this blasphemy coming from your mouth, InflatablePie?

I'm pulling the "I'M TOWN, LOOK AT ME I'M TOWN" card and the "Hey, he's pointing out his own scummy actions, he must be town!" card. Obviously.