Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[inHimshallibe]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

AlmasterGM

- 2 - GreyICE, C-Worl - (L-9)

Amrun

- 1 - Juls - (L-10)

CSL

- 1 - InHimshallibe - (L-10)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

Magister Ludi

- 6 - RayFrost, ToastyToast, Iecerint, Katsuki, Vi, Amrun - (L-5)

mykonian

- 3 - elvis_knits, CSL, DietyKabuto - (L-8)

RayFrost

- 1 - Magister Ludi - (L-10)

ToastyToast

- 2 - AlmasterGM, RedCoyote - (L-9)

Players not voting: Bastard Bros, Maxous

Less talk about the flavor? Dude, most of us either love the games, or like spyrex games.

Reading the case on Ludi.

P-Edit: Wait...WAIT A MINUTE.

C-Worl, are you saying that if you see someone IN YOUR OWN EYES that is scum, you are going to control the town? And all you care about in this game is the mechanic? You are either scum, or idiot town.

No, town's are full of VIs. I'm tired of losing games where I called who was scum and I still lost because of VIs. It's worse when you see someone who's obvtown to you about to get lynched by those same VIs. I probably won't do it normally but if I see town about to lynch someone who I believe to be obvtown while letting someone who is clearly scum walk free I will use the duel mechanic.

In my opinion that's probably why Spyrex added the duel mechanic. And why shouldn't I care about the mechanic? Those are how I pick which games I want to join. I joined this game simply bc of the Duel Mechanic.

Now that I'm here I'm going to use it to find the scum but letting a bunch of VIs decide a certain way the mechanic is used is a great way for scum to manipulate it so that it best suits them.

Yeah, this is laughable.

Who, exactly, are the VIs deciding how this mechanic will be handled? The next bit about scum manipulating its use is nonsense.

@anyone that feels like helping C-Worl out here: I want some examples of scum actually actively manipulating a public mechanic to their use.

[C-Worl]

@anyone that feels like helping C-Worl out here: I want some examples of scum actually actively manipulating a public mechanic to their use.

I'll give you some examples once a few ongoings I have end.

[CSL]

I like how he pays special attention to Shu, and not giving a shit about Wu. He seems to know something we don't.

Unvote; Vote: Ludi

[inHimshallibe]

Erm. Ludi, the game hadn't started yet and all there

was

to talk about was duel speculation. I couldn't even vote.

So what you're saying is nonsensical to me.

This and this read like made up post restrictions to me.

I agree with gamma that arguing about the duel stuff might not be the greatest idea early on. We're probably better off focusing on the whole finding scum thing rather than distracting from this by trying to solve the issue of optimal dueling strategy. First we find scum... then we think about the best way to deal with them.

*spreads arms wide*

Was this tongue-in-cheek? If not, why no follow-up?

[AlmasterGM]

No, town's are full of VIs. I'm tired of losing games where I called who was scum and I still lost because of VIs. It's worse when you see someone who's obvtown to you about to get lynched by those same VIs. I probably won't do it normally but if I see town about to lynch someone who I believe to be obvtown while letting someone who is clearly scum walk free I will use the duel mechanic.

Dude, hate to break it to you, but you are a VI. Or at least, one of the more VI-level players in this game - almost everyone else here is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above your level.

Your vote on me is also trololoooool.

---

I agree with inHim about CSL.

[C-Worl]

No, town's are full of VIs. I'm tired of losing games where I called who was scum and I still lost because of VIs. It's worse when you see someone who's obvtown to you about to get lynched by those same VIs. I probably won't do it normally but if I see town about to lynch someone who I believe to be obvtown while letting someone who is clearly scum walk free I will use the duel mechanic.

Dude, hate to break it to you, but you are a VI. Or at least, one of the more VI-level players in this game - almost everyone else here is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above your level.

Your vote on me is also trololoooool.

---

I agree with inHim about CSL.

The number you have dialed is not available right now. Please leave a message after the beep. BEEEEEEP!

[Amrun]

I manipulated the mechanic in Execution Mafia as scum for a perfect victory. Link in my wiki.

It's not really important to this game at all, but you asked.

[inHimshallibe]

I skimmed your first fifty posts in that game, and I don't see you proposing anything about the mechanics at all.

The point I'm trying to make is that scum are rarely (and I still haven't found a good example) going to be out advocating ANYTHING unless it has been mentioned before or unless it is the obvious safe way to use a mechanic. Outside-the-box thinking like Juls' suggestion just rarely happens from scum.

[Amrun]

I missed that stage of the game, but they ended up following my plan anyway. That day and every day, even when they didn't know it. I used the mechanic to my advantage.

I think it doesn't matter here. Just providing after the inquiry.

I also think Juls is town.

[mykonian]

Lets try something new. Hard tunneling on day one. It's rare that I have been more convinced on somebody.

Juls 83 is good idea. If you're town about to be lynched, duel someone you want to empower.

Elvis is either ignorant or scum here (hint, scum). This is this games equivalent of a selfhammer. Which means this is hardly a clear cut situation.

Magister Ludi thinking rayFrost is scummy is... scummy. Also mentioning toasty as possibly scummy is... scummy. (I'm not seeing toasty as scum) Then saying he never said toasty was scum... is scummier.

elvis can't remain behind when everybody else thinks Ludi is scummy!

Amrun's DK vote seems sort of pathetic given the amount of more important stuff going on. Fly-under-the-radar type vote.

We needed some mud slung to Amrun too.

I have no knowledge of the flavor of this game, and I am glazing over about it. Did Magister Ludi make a slip? If yes, I would not be surprised as his play this far seemed scummy already.

Making absolutely clear she can hop on the wagon.

and then this gem:

Myko 141 OMGUS votes me

But it does show something: elvis is starting out passively. Caps don't help either, as she is just explaining with them that antitown = scum to her. She knows I'm not antitown.

There has been nothing passive about my play. I've been one of the most active posters so far, and I wanted to start voting even in pregame. What about that is passive? I am arguing strongly that I don't want scum like you floating the idea that town should be idiots and duel whoever and whenever they please.

confirm vote: myko

It is true that she had her vote on me already, but that wasn't that odd, seen that I was the first wagon of the game. Meaning OMGUS is a very odd acronym to use in this situation. Further, Elvis is very quick in strawmanning the passivity argument there. Activity has nothing to do with aggressivity, and Elvis has clearly been holding back in all those posts of her. Just check the above mentioned statements about Ludi. Sure he is very scummy, and he probably made a slip, but I'm going to wait for confirmation from you guys if it really really was a slip.

I STRONGLY disagree with allowing any supposedly obvtown minority to have more control over duels than others. That reads to me like a recipe for disaster.

One reason is scum can sometimes fool us, you know.

Another reason is that letting everyone participate equally lets you see who is making scummy moves.

This is becoming a standard scumtell for me. Scum's biggest fear is suddenly being opposed by a large block of townies who have found each other. The above is only stating what

you shouldn't trust anybody

.

I STRONGLY disagree with more than one dead guy for today. I say lynch or duel. Duel is probably more fun I guess, so I can go with that. But I only want one death. I want to see a flip and look at wagons before I agree to a double-death duel. And no fucking way do I agree to gammagoey double-double death explosion.

Town wants more shots at scum. You wouldn't no lynch either in a normal game, nor would you hold your day-1-dayvig shot. This is just scum protecting her team and pulling the breaks on the town.

confirm vote Elvis

[ToastyToast]

RF 99 wrote:
"Toasty is suspect for coming up with the possibility of multiple scumteams"
"There are possibilities for scumteams and there's probably a serial killer!"
Vote: Magister Ludi

If he has knowledge of the theme, why not be upfront about it?

Did u miss RayFrosts point? It was a contradiction, and he was attacking me for something he sees as a possibility. I don't understand why suggesting multiple scum teams=scum, and thats really all I'm getting from the people voting me.
---

Toast 120 wrote:
I do think he's being significantly more under the radar than I'm used to.

The game has been open for, like, 24 hours.

Nonetheless, this is either a different approach since he gets lynched D1 almost every time as town, or this is his scum-game. You left out the part where I agreed with GreyICE that people should know DK's game b4 voting him. I just added that we can't really just give him the "newb" status and move on because he is playing differently than I remember.

Are you suggesting that there is a connection between myself and Ludi? Please explain. I can't comment on a vote with a simple declaration.

He explained an issue with you earlier, and I have the same one. You're saying one thing but meaning another.

Don't know how you misunderstood such a simple question. I asked him if he saw a connection b/w me and Ludi, given that he called us both scum and then voted me. And AGM's reasons are less than stellar.

[Vi]

...

Requesting preprocessing of case on Amrun.

AlmasterGM 159... List presented meets ViBot standards for Today's termination at runtime.

GreyICE 161... Deflection to previous game detected on page 7. Alignment reconsideration query delayed indefinitely.

B4574rD Br05 168... Motivation unclear. Initiating query in regards to whether subject knows how to play Mafia.

C-Worl 169... ALERT "RED FLAG". Alleged scumpartnering registered as "unlikely". Vote noted to have landed on the

Townier

of the two considered suspects. Prediction: GreyICE as scum logically implies C-Worl as scum.

inHimshallibe 178

et al

... Artificiality detectors ringing off hook. Subject moved to Medium-High priority on extermination sequence.

...

System... Issuing request for Gammagooey to initiate a duel with Magister Ludi.

...

[Amrun]

I wish you would post normally, Vi. :/

[Vi]

...

I have no knowledge of the flavor of this game, and I am glazing over about it. Did Magister Ludi make a slip? If yes, I would not be surprised as his play this far seemed scummy already.

(...)

confirm vote: myko

Position of subject on favorable extermination list secured.

...

[ToastyToast]

I could see scum making a post like this, be wary of ToastyToast buddying imo.

Anything in particular that you don't like, or the whole post in general?

Why are we speculating about flavor so much, because that shouldn't have any bearing on anyone's ability to play mafia?
Moreover, I think we shouldn't get starstruck by the duel mechanic. Let's play it cool like a normal game and use the duel if the need for it comes up.

To get over it and stimulate discussion. Also, no. We should be using the duel mechanic every time--its there for a reason. More duels=more town power. We just have to be smart in who we have duel.

Now that I'm here I'm going to use it to find the scum but letting a bunch of VIs decide a certain way the mechanic is used is a great way for scum to manipulate it so that it best suits them.

Do you think something like this is happening right now?

Post of the day. In spirit I'm on the Ludi wagon.

This is odd to me. Do you PREFER a Ludi lynch over an Elvis lynch? Also, your vote on Elvis is weak because it consists of "she knows me better, so she shouldn't be voting me."

Lets try something new. Hard tunneling on day one. It's rare that I have been more convinced on somebody.

You say this like its a good thing. Post 184 has both weak and strong points. For example, the whole "dont trust anyone" thing is exactly what she's saying--she says we can't trust anyone and as such everyone should be voting for who to duel, as oppossed to the people who others

think

are town.

The reason your null and not scummy: She is strawmanning, and the self-hammer point is spot on. Her apprehension is also noted. I'm mentioning your case because 1)your reasons seem to change and 2)the tunneling comment (even if it was supposed to be funny)

[Iecerint]

@ RC -- You don't have to have any information about the theme to interpret it. The scumtell is that he appears to know the number of scum that are on each team. This would be scummy even if he hadn't made any comments about the theme.

His comment about Wu was that he wasn't sure who the scum would be because there were 4 brothers (I assume he means Sun Jian (actually the father), Sun Ce, Sun Quan, and SSX (a sister, but idk who the 4th would be...), though I'm really not sure). This makes no sense because if there were 4 obvWu candidates, the scumteam could just be all 4 of them. There's only awkwardness if you think 4-man teams are impossible for whatever reason. Since 4-man teams are perfectly plausible in a game this size IMO, I think it's a scumslip.

[DeityKabuto]

Scumlist:
Myko
Ludi
AGM
Max
Amrun

Could you back this up, please?

[Katsuki]

I like how he pays special attention to Shu, and not giving a shit about Wu. He seems to know something we don't.

Unvote; Vote: Ludi

Bandwagon vote detected!

[C-Worl]

C-Worl 169... ALERT "RED FLAG". Alleged scumpartnering registered as "unlikely". Vote noted to have landed on the

Townier

of the two considered suspects. Prediction: GreyICE as scum logically implies C-Worl as scum.

Grey didn't have a vote on him. If I think both are scum together I'm going for the one who I'm more likely to get lynched. The chances of GreyICE getting D1 are highly unlikely. BTW, what makes AGM townier than Grey?

[Gammagooey]

So I'm having a harder time getting into this game than I'm used to but I do have a few reads I can share.

Elvis is I think the best choice for me to duel. The very early game/pregame stuff with her arguing with AGM isn't that scummy, but she's definitely stretching what AGM says to make her argument look better. At the time I could see town doing that if they were really convinced in their argument and wanted to be right no matter what but her post #65 is enormously terrible.

So far I see:

Scummiest:
Myko for wanting to charge in and duel
AlmasterG for convoluted reasoning why we should not let majority rule
Maxous for promoting the idea that if we "trust" someone we give them free reign to duel
Amrun 59 gives me slight scum twinge by saying he was calling bastard scum as a "joke"

It has been my experience that in games like this where there are strategies that CLEARLY benefit scum, and some people push these strategies, THEY ARE SCUM.

vote myko

Look at the reasons for suspecting Max and Amrun.
She takes a basic summary what they say and adds little finger quotes to it to try and make what they're saying look worse. There's absolutely no other reason to do that and it's not objective or analytical at all.

[quote="Myk]

I STRONGLY disagree with allowing any supposedly obvtown minority to have more control over duels than others. That reads to me like a recipe for disaster. One reason is scum can sometimes fool us, you know. Another reason is that letting everyone participate equally lets you see who is making scummy moves.

This is becoming a standard scumtell for me. Scum's biggest fear is suddenly being opposed by a large block of townies who have found each other. The above is only stating what you shouldn't trust anybody. [/quote]
This is absolutely right- I've seen it quite a bit in chat mafia games when scum don't have anything or don't want to contribute with reads- Instead it's fairly common that they just ask the active players questions about their town reads to try and look active and spread doubt on who's scum.

I have no knowledge of the flavor of this game, and I am glazing over about it. Did Magister Ludi make a slip? If yes, I would not be surprised as his play this far seemed scummy already.

And yeah this is terrible.

A few extra reads-
Mykon is pretty clearly town with his 184
Bastard is being useless and needs some actual content
Ludi's initial "people who wonder about 2 scumteams are scum, here's some possible scumteams" is pretty bad but I don't think the rest of his posts are.

[DeityKabuto]

Unvote

Vi, may I suggest that you provide links when saying post numbers, it makes it easier for us instead of having to find the page.

[Amrun]

This strange and new Deity Kabuto is making me nervous.

[elvis_knits]

Bastard 168... have you played a game here yet? Might want to read the wiki and a few newbie games...

C-worl 169 - NO. Are you a VI?

If YOU DUEL ANYONE WITHOUT MAJORITY APPROVAL I WILL LUST FOR YOUR LYNCH LIKE A HORNY TEENAGER.

This goes for anybody. Dueling without discussion and majority approval is scummy.

@inhim - game where scum tried to manipulate the public mechanic earlygame http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =dollhouse

@DK, everyone on my scum lists is people I've been talking about, so read my posts.

I guess I'll respond to myko in a separate post...

[elvis_knits]

Juls 83 is good idea. If you're town about to be lynched, duel someone you want to empower.

Elvis is either ignorant or scum here (hint, scum). This is this games equivalent of a selfhammer. Which means this is hardly a clear cut situation.

Please get a grip. It's a good idea. Maybe not in every situation, but generally, as an option, yes, it's a good idea for a dying town to try to empower a townie. When you can do nothing to prevent your death, help the town on the way down.

Magister Ludi thinking rayFrost is scummy is... scummy. Also mentioning toasty as possibly scummy is... scummy. (I'm not seeing toasty as scum) Then saying he never said toasty was scum... is scummier.

elvis can't remain behind when everybody else thinks Ludi is scummy!

Well... I do think he's scummy. If you're trying to say I'm only doing it because everyone else is, the only thing I can tell you is I have unique reasoning which suggests I am being honest. Do you disagree that Ludi is scummy?

Amrun's DK vote seems sort of pathetic given the amount of more important stuff going on. Fly-under-the-radar type vote.

We needed some mud slung to Amrun too.

I call stuff I think is scummy. Problem? Do you think I am wrong, or you just don't like me suspecting people?

I have no knowledge of the flavor of this game, and I am glazing over about it. Did Magister Ludi make a slip? If yes, I would not be surprised as his play this far seemed scummy already.

Making absolutely clear she can hop on the wagon.

First of all, I will hope on whatever wagon I want. Second, I already thought he was scummy based on above, so get a grip. Third, I'm still voting you.

and then this gem:

Myko 141 OMGUS votes me

But it does show something: elvis is starting out passively. Caps don't help either, as she is just explaining with them that antitown = scum to her. She knows I'm not antitown.

There has been nothing passive about my play. I've been one of the most active posters so far, and I wanted to start voting even in pregame. What about that is passive? I am arguing strongly that I don't want scum like you floating the idea that town should be idiots and duel whoever and whenever they please.

confirm vote: myko

It is true that she had her vote on me already, but that wasn't that odd, seen that I was the first wagon of the game. Meaning OMGUS is a very odd acronym to use in this situation. Further, Elvis is very quick in strawmanning the passivity argument there. Activity has nothing to do with aggressivity, and Elvis has clearly been holding back in all those posts of her. Just check the above mentioned statements about Ludi. Sure he is very scummy, and he probably made a slip, but I'm going to wait for confirmation from you guys if it really really was a slip.

YOU WERE THE FIRST WAGON OF THE GAME AFTER I VOTED YOU FIRST! Also, it got up to FOUR. In a game with 20 players. You scared?

It is also quite ridiculous to call me passive this game! I didn't vote Ludi yet. SO what? I want you dead, and I really have no idea about the slip thing so I'm waiting to hear more about it... just like you are! You're asking the same thing I asked, if the slip was real.

I STRONGLY disagree with allowing any supposedly obvtown minority to have more control over duels than others. That reads to me like a recipe for disaster.

One reason is scum can sometimes fool us, you know.

Another reason is that letting everyone participate equally lets you see who is making scummy moves.

This is becoming a standard scumtell for me. Scum's biggest fear is suddenly being opposed by a large block of townies who have found each other. The above is only stating what

you shouldn't trust anybody

.

You know, I actually do try to find townies I agree with in every game, so I understand the sentiment, and I understand that naturally players trust some players more than others. But I think it is REALLY BAD FUCKING NEWS to confirm people as obvtown based on gut and then let them run the show.

I STRONGLY disagree with more than one dead guy for today. I say lynch or duel. Duel is probably more fun I guess, so I can go with that. But I only want one death. I want to see a flip and look at wagons before I agree to a double-death duel. And no fucking way do I agree to gammagoey double-double death explosion.

Town wants more shots at scum. You wouldn't no lynch either in a normal game, nor would you hold your day-1-dayvig shot. This is just scum protecting her team and pulling the breaks on the town.

confirm vote Elvis

If you can guarantee me two double-scum, double-death duels, I would agree to this. That would be awesome, myko, let's kill four scum today! Fuck yeah, you're my homey! Let's do this shit!

The reality of this is that we don't have enough information to kill off a quarter of the players in this game.

Actually,

MOD, ARE PLAYER ALIGNMENTS REVEALED UPON DEATH OR END OF DAY?

I mean, if we want to have gamma duel somebody, see their flip, and then reduel accordingly, that could be okay. I just don't want us being stupid.

[SpyreX]

MOD, ARE PLAYER ALIGNMENTS REVEALED UPON DEATH OR END OF DAY?

Flips are revealed upon death.