Open 309 - Fire and Ice [Game Over]

[YoYoGuy435]

I was looking over the thread and I figured I'd go ahead and bring this to everyones attention. After I pointed out Hiraki and Toro's buddying on page 2 they stopped talking to each other about anything. I'm not sure if this means anything but I figured I'd point it out just in case it does mean something.

[silavor]

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

[Toro]

I was looking over the thread and I figured I'd go ahead and bring this to everyones attention. After I pointed out Hiraki and Toro's buddying on page 2 they stopped talking to each other about anything. I'm not sure if this means anything but I figured I'd point it out just in case it does mean something.

If you considered that buddying I don't really know the definition of buddying in this game anymore. Where did you see Hiraki and I scumhunt together? Sure we compared ideas on Robo's answer to the 3rd question but other then that it was off-topic nonsense between us.

[Amor]

@Toro: It was a joke. A bad one, possibly, but surely not scummy? I'd actually regard a simple "no" as being more awkward/suspicious in this case.

You're talking as if that's the main crux of my argument. It's not. It's a theory that I think may be the case if you do turn out to be scum.

So in a couple posts kcda's interaction with hikari has gone from being the reason you're considering voting him to a random side point? This is some bad backtracking here.

[Robocopter87]

Why would you want to get town points if you were town? Last time I checked, we're playing mafia, not "who-can-get-the-most-town-points". I know scum plays that a lot though.

There is two possibilities in this setup. You are Mafia. Or you are town. If I am Mafia, I want town points. If I am town, I obviously don't want to have Mafia points. And since theres only one other thing besides Mafia. I'm going for Town either. Way you see what I mean? But you're right, its looking for scum, not getting the most town points.

Again. Somebody said, "Whatever you want me to be babe." Somebody said, " I plead the fifth". Yet my answer is somehow wrong?

It's not that your answer is necessarily wrong, it's how you worded it that's throwing up red flags. I actually don't like Amor's response more than yours, "I plead the 5th?" Really? A simple no would've done fine.

Unvote

Vote: Amor

I'm also concerned how projectmatt didn't raise an eyebrow at Amor's comment.

Sure I guess.

Robo, why aren't you voting for silavor?

Because though he is totally flawed, that doesn't make him scum.

@Robo: I explained why you were suspicious to me a few posts back.

I covered that.

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

You called someone else a bandwagonner who posts no reasoning. Yet you voted for me without an ounce of reasoning. Definition of Hypocrite: Someone who does what they tell others not to do.

Meaning you are a hypocrite.

[Hiraki]

Hmm.

Robo's explanations are written scummiliy, but his vibe is town.

Nah, just the first actually.

[Alduskkel]

Unvote, Vote: YoYoGuy435

.

Scum think more about "does this look scummy?" Plus, preemptively calling out your own scumminess doesn't change the fact that it's still scummy (though I do put much stock into the 3rd vote = scummy tell) and to me the subtext here is "If I'm pointing out my scumminess, it's not scummy anymore." Also, what Amor said.

YoYoGuy, how strong do you consider the 3rd vote = scummy tell?

@projectmatt You never explained why you don't value your reads highly.

@Hiraki: What is scummy about his explanations? Why call his vibe town but then immediately state that that's false?

[projectmatt]

I dislike Robo's 68. He starts out a little bit soft but then starts getting incredibly aggresive and makes a point to misrep every person who put out an argument against him.

Wow! I was waiting for you to show some valid reasoning! Man, its a small world after all.

Over reaction? Yes. I'm sorry, but I'm just not swayed.

Also not a fan of 66 by Kdcaspot.

soooo... I was bussing.... in RVS..... ummmmm.... wat?

Experienced user, obviously, and it appears he almost tries to play dumb about bussing in RVS. Why is this such a silly concept?

Though, I believe that if one of Hikari\Spot are scum, the other is town. I don't see it being that blatantly...obvious.

BTW, Amor's "I plead the fifth" comment doesn't do anything for me at all. It just felt like a joke, there was nothing forced about it. And, to be completely honest, I mainly just wanted to call Robo obvious scum so I could see how he acts under pressure, his first post was scummy, but not scummy enough to be lynched by. Now, I'm fine with it.

And, as I said, my reads can be useful but they are not valuable in the way others may have thought I was implying. Me outing my reads probably isn't doing the town a giant favor, I just want to.

[Kcdaspot]

Also not a fan of 66 by Kdcaspot.

soooo... I was bussing.... in RVS..... ummmmm.... wat?

Experienced user, obviously, and it appears he almost tries to play dumb about bussing in RVS. Why is this such a silly concept?

because it's RVS.

It's a viable strategy if i did overreact to hiraki.

so back to you, is there any other post pointing to a bus between hiraki and me?

[projectmatt]

Also not a fan of 66 by Kdcaspot.

soooo... I was bussing.... in RVS..... ummmmm.... wat?

Experienced user, obviously, and it appears he almost tries to play dumb about bussing in RVS. Why is this such a silly concept?

because it's RVS.

It's a viable strategy if i did overreact to hiraki.

so back to you, is there any other post pointing to a bus between hiraki and me?

Any "other"? I never pointed out a potential bus, others did. Your response tipped me off a bit.

[Robocopter87]

Ok Look people.

Can we stop saying, "I dislike that post", and "That sounds scummy"?

How about we say, "Here is what is scummy about that, *explanation*"

That would be great if we explained ourselves.

[YoYoGuy435]

Scum think more about "does this look scummy?" Plus, preemptively calling out your own scumminess doesn't change the fact that it's still scummy (though I do put much stock into the 3rd vote = scummy tell) and to me the subtext here is "If I'm pointing out my scumminess, it's not scummy anymore."

I wasn't implying that me pointing out my own scummy behavior made that behavior no longer scummy. I would just rather point stuff like that out on my own, than have someone else point it out for me.

[Hiraki]

Robo: That's equivalent to cheating.

And makes you look worse.

Nacho isn't bussing btw.

[Robocopter87]

You know, it was a very simple request. Just post some explanations with your accusations! It rhymes even.

So. Please tell me what is equivalent to cheating. What makes me look worse. And where did I cheat?

[Hiraki]

You didn't. It's just really annoying for people to explain everything.

Also takes a lot of the game.

But it confirms you to be scum very much.

[Robocopter87]

Oh. But it is necessary. Nobody here is a mind reader(I think). Meaning we don't automatically see what others see.

But is still necessary.

How?

[Hiraki]

It's not, and by learning every single crippling detail makes you know more. Stuff you really don't need to know as scum.

[silavor]

Matt's focusing on the wrong things with Robo, and robo is scum.

Vote: Robocopter87

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

You mean you're gonna pick the one that gets the bigger bandwagon and lower public approval rating? Sounds like bet hedging to me.

Hypocrite.

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

You called someone else a bandwagonner who posts no reasoning. Yet you voted for me without an ounce of reasoning. Definition of Hypocrite: Someone who does what they tell others not to do.

Meaning you are a hypocrite.

Amor, I didn't think I'd actually have to point this out... It's kinda obvious.

3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

It's almost like I don't even have to say anything anymore.
ur jus mad cuz i caught me some scum

[Hiraki]

I'M FEELING REALLY GOOD NOW.

LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH.

[Alduskkel]

So Hiraki, are you just against explaining or are you against explaining

everything

? How is it like cheating? How does it "confirm [him] to be scum"?
Also, answer the question that I very specifically addressed to you in my previous post.

[Hiraki]

I missed that, my bad.

It's because his first point is meh, but after everything else is bad.

I'm against explaining everything.

It confirms him as scum because knowing everything gives you a better viewpoint on who to kill. Only scum need to know everything.

[Toro]

And scum would also like it if barely any explanations were made so a confused town could pile votes on eachother while scum can forge on under the radar.

*Squints eyes and points finger at Hiraki*

[Robocopter87]

Listen silavor.

First silavor says this.

Matt's focusing on the wrong things with Robo, and robo is scum.

Vote: Robocopter87

'

There is no reasoning here. He implies that there is some sort of scumminess about me. He says that there is something wrong. And that I am scum. THERE IS NO REASONING HERE. He is simply just calling me scum like everybody else. Bandwagonning. Without reason. Both of them. No reasons. Bandwagonning.

Ok? Does everybody follow?

Assuming you said yes, then we look at what happens next.

At this moment in time on our timeline, I have not responded. Seeing as I wasn't on my computer. Anywho, silavor says this about Tid.

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

You mean you're gonna pick the one that gets the bigger bandwagon and lower public approval rating? Sounds like bet hedging to me.

If you haven't noticed by now, silavor did the same thing. I had a lower public approval rating. I had a bandwagon started. Meaning that silavor chose someone with a lower public approval rating, and bandwagonned.

Since I saw how totally obvious this was. And how hypocritical it sounded. I replied to it with a

Hypocrite.

But instead of going down the hypocrite lane. Lets go into silavors ISO. Next post was his (I really hate to call it this because it really wasn't)

reasoning

.

Which according to him was obvious. Apparently not obvious enough for me to notice it.

Amor, I didn't think I'd actually have to point this out... It's kinda obvious.

3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

This is his

reasoning

. This is invalid.

What was so obvious about this sentence that made it scummy. silavor has failed to even present any explanation. And I'll tell you why he has failed to. Because he doesn't have one. And even though I will ask him time and time again for a written explanation for HIS VERY FIRST VOTE ON ME. He will change the subject and make this about something else. I bolded this so I could quote it later.

Back to the Hypocrite lane.

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

Deflecting. My accusation makes no sense to him. But his accusation towards me does make sense? How? Basically he has conceived in his mind that something I said was scummy. But once I pointed out that it wasn't. It REALLY became scummy to him. And even though I post this defense. It will be even MORE scummy to him. A snowball effect that he is losing control of.

Moving on.

Matt's focusing on the wrong things with Robo, and robo is scum.

Vote: Robocopter87

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

You mean you're gonna pick the one that gets the bigger bandwagon and lower public approval rating? Sounds like bet hedging to me.

Hypocrite.

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

You called someone else a bandwagonner who posts no reasoning. Yet you voted for me without an ounce of reasoning. Definition of Hypocrite: Someone who does what they tell others not to do.

Meaning you are a hypocrite.

Amor, I didn't think I'd actually have to point this out... It's kinda obvious.

3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

Robo, how am I a hypocrite. Your accusation against me makes no sense.

Go back and try again, scum.

It's almost like I don't even have to say anything anymore.
ur jus mad cuz i caught me some scum

I would like to note that he put these out of order. This is not the order in which they happened. Also, in this post he basically shows how much of a hypocrite he is. But somehow in his mind, I am an obvious scumbag.

At this point in time I am asking for a explanation of his first vote. I want to see something. Actual content. Not pure quotes, a casual comment and a smiley face. I want to see solid reasoning. I also would like to know who his my scumbuddy if you think I am scum. You probably noticed I typed as though I was addressing a crowd and not him directly. That is because I want other people to read this and realize how terrible this guys argument is.

[Hiraki]

Sure, but he wants everything explained so far as I can see.

[Robocopter87]

I missed that, my bad.

It's because his first point is meh, but after everything else is bad.

I'm against explaining everything.

It confirms him as scum because knowing everything gives you a better viewpoint on who to kill. Only scum need to know everything.

Didn't see this.

Wow.

1. My first point is "meh". OMG I AM CONFIRMED SCUM OMG OMG OMG LETS LYNCH GOGOGOGOGOGO. Really? "meh"?!

Is that really all you have against me and that somehow makes me confirmed scum?

2. You are against explaining everything in a game where you are supposed to provide an argument against people in order to lynch scum. Do you even realize how totally outrageous you sound?

3. So by knowing info I am scum. So you are saying that I am supposed to not knw anything and randomly lynch people in high hopes they are scum? How are you supposed to catch scum

without

information? And even if this was true. Why does this confirm me as scum? I can understand makes me look scummy. But Confirmed? Like 100% chance, no doubt in your mind, that I am scum.