Large Normal 132: Desert Mafia (Over!)

[RisingPhoenix]

haven't played with Emp, or if I did I forgot since i've been on hiatus-ish
ambivalent on [winger]. I have gut town on him, but at the same time my last gut on him was wrong so... I'm keeping my vote on Ranmaru though, my read is just as strong as it was when I first made the vote

_________________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Silver1337: 2 (DeityKabuto, Hiraki) L-6
  gorilla: 2 (Ranmaru, Scott Brosius) L-6
  [winger]: 2 (Kublai Khan, gorilla) L-6
  
  Scott Brosius: 1 (Skyquiem) L-7
  Skyquiem: 1 (Mana_Ku) L-7
  Ranmaru: 1 (RisingPhoenix) L-7
  Kublai Kahn: 1 (mastin2) L-7
  
  Not Voting: 4 (inHimshallibe, [winger], Silver1337, Reya Cookiebringer)

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[gorilla]

ranmaru:

winger has 4 posts. his first two posts didn't catch my attention, his most recent one did.

still have a slight scum lean on scott, nothing has particularly changed since then for me to comment on it. I don't have a strong enough read there to vote him, and I do have a strong enough read to vote winger.

I'm just being honest: you are tunneling aggressively on minutiae with bad reasoning just because i self-professed to being lazy and being annoyed by your posting.

do I really have to explain everything to you? rather than explaining or defending himself he asks "omg why am i scum"

this is not hard

[[winger]]

Gorilla is probably town, because he seems earnest, but he has yet to explain why that question (or why what KK called me out for) is actually scummy. I can sit here and attribute the phrase "_____ is scummy" to plenty of things, but it doesn't make it true or logically valid.

"Having a gorilla avatar is scummy!"

Gorilla, I had nothing to defend myself against. KK said I was sitting around and waiting to pounce - and I admitted that was true. I still fail to see what makes me scum instead of a lazy townie.

[mastin2]

When I have more time available.

I am so, SO going to defuse all of these junkwagons and prove why they're not our lynch for today.

As Long As Mastin Lives, Mislynching Becomes Incredibly Difficult. (Hiraki might remember that one of the main reasons Calcifer--nacho and myself--were killed in TWBBS is because we were stopping mislynches from happening.)

[Ranmaru]

Not the best wagon's. I admit it is hard to get some leads in this weak town.

Btw Mastin, when you do that, I'd like for you to state ALTERNATIVE wagons and state reasons why. I still don't agree on Khan being scum.

Also still wondering about Inhim and Reya. :/

[mastin2]

Khan is my alternative wagon.

Reason why's simple.

I currently do not believe winger is scum.
inHim has not provided me any content.
Reya is far too minor a suspect.
Hiraki I am not confident enough in to lynch.
Sky might,

might

be a good lynch, but I'm not completely sold on Sky being scum, yet.

Khan's really the best option.

[DeityKabuto]

Vote Khan

I don't like how I get an Anti-town feeling from your posts.

[Ranmaru]

You too DK. Please answer this question:

@Everyone: Which of you have played with Empking before? Which of you all KNEW who he was?

I have gotten some answers but others haven't really given an answer. >_>

[Ranmaru]

Khan is my alternative wagon.

Reason why's simple.

I currently do not believe winger is scum.
inHim has not provided me any content.
Reya is far too minor a suspect.
Hiraki I am not confident enough in to lynch.
Sky might,

might

be a good lynch, but I'm not completely sold on Sky being scum, yet.

Khan's really the best option.

What is your read on Brossius again?

How has your Khan read developed? Has he progressively done more scummy things? Have you ever played in games he was town? Did he do anything differently?

Why aren't you completely sold on Sky/Hiraki?

[Skyquiem]

I have played with Empking before, in Mini 1156, his play was atrocious. His reads were very far of yet he would continue to aggresively push them without adding any reasoning behind them. I had a conversation with Head One not too longer ago discussing the implications of Empkings death and we agreed that it was likely due to players with no experience with him seeing his join date and viewing him as a good kill candidate.

Mastin2, I don't understand the constant desire you have to attack Khans posting, as he himself mentioned his reads weren't an attempt to 'Look town' merely an attempt to meet my request. Though I do agree with your Silver town-read and your Winger one to an extent as well.

Silver, just because you have a reputation or history posting low quality posts doesn't mean that you should continue to do so, I want three FoS's from you with reasoning attached.

Khan, my gorilla town-read comes mainly from his first post stating he had to go re-check his role PM, it reads as geninue and I'm willing to bet that mafia were talking in their QT throughout the night meaning I don't see any possible way he would forget his role as scum.

- Regfan

[Ranmaru]

Damn it Sky. You didn't have to say that outright. :/

now inexperienced scum can hide behind that reason... >_>

I was thinking the opposite. I was thinking it might have been players who may have experienced games with him or that might have feared him.

[Kublai Khan]

KK - how does that distinguish me from being scum or a lazy townie? Where is the distinction there that makes me scum?

Because you still haven't seen anything scummy in 10 pages of play? When are you going to pounce? Endgame?

I don't like how I get an Anti-town feeling from your posts.

What's wrong with you? When you vote for someone, have a reason. If that reason is something vague like "I get an Anti-town feeling", then quote something I said that was anti-town.

Also: Could you actually answer my question about who you roleblocked at some point? You can even refuse to answer if you want, just make me feel like you're actually reading the game.

Khan, my gorilla town-read comes mainly from his first post stating he had to go re-check his role PM, it reads as geninue and I'm willing to bet that mafia were talking in their QT throughout the night meaning I don't see any possible way he would forget his role as scum.

Seriously?

This might be a revelation to you but... *whispers* scum often lie.

Walking into the game before anyone else (even the spastic mastin2) and saying "I almost forgot my role. Hyuk Yuk" isn't, and should never be, a town-tell.

[mastin2]

What is your read on Brossius again?

Weak town.

Khan's digging himself deeper into a hole with every post he makes. To answer, no, I haven't seen Khan as town, but I intend to meta him in my case, because I still believe this is his scumplay, rather than his townplay, even though I've never actually seen his townplay. There's a chance I'll be proven wrong, of course, but I doubt it. I think this is his scum play. And by checking his town-play, I'll confirm he is scum.

I am not completely sold on Sky/Hiraki because--while I have seen them do a lot of scummy things--there are other things they've said and done which make me doubt that read and actually think town. And while it's fully possible they're scum (in fact, I'd be a bit surprised if they were BOTH town), the fact that I am so doubtful of them being scum means I cannot advocate for their lynches, right now.

[mastin2]

scum often lie.

Walking into the game before anyone else (even the spastic mastin2) and saying "I almost forgot my role. Hyuk Yuk" isn't, and should never be, a town-tell.

Not about something of this nature.

Gorilla is town, and any pro-town player would realize that by now.

[Skyquiem]

It reads as very geninue. It's not the sort of gambit that he would pull as scum and I know gorilla very well. We've hydra'ed together in multiple games.

- Regfan

[mastin2]

Indeed. I could tell that as well.

Heck, I don't think anyone who is town and read that post carefully wouldn't have come to the conclusion Gorilla-->Town.

[Kublai Khan]

It reads as very geninue. It's not the sort of gambit that he would pull as scum and I know gorilla very well. We've hydra'ed together in multiple games.

Fine. I've never played with gorilla so I'll take your word on it.

@mastin2 - Post a fucking case or fuck off. Your braindead "if Khan votes for them, they must be a mislynch" auto-read strategy is bullshit.

[Ranmaru]

Mastin, why didn't you comment on DK's vote on Khan without much reason?

I disagree on Gorilla being town, hence my vote on him. I'd much rather keep Khan then Gorilla.

What do you think about Khan's #236?

Since you haven't really played with Khan as town, I find your meta read on him to be slightly biased. How is that case with his town game in it going? You say "By checking his townplay" Does that mean you haven't gotten around to it? What is taking you?


Mastin, if I said i'd not budge onto a Khan lynch, would you bring up 2nd or 3rd FoS lynches to compromise with the town? If so, who would those be?

@Khan: Why are you taking Reg's word, shouldn't you base your read on Gorilla's actions in-game? (Unless you have a town read on Sky, then that must be why you trust him)

[Kublai Khan]

@Khan: Why are you taking Reg's word, shouldn't you base your read on Gorilla's actions in-game? (Unless you have a town read on Sky, then that must be why you trust him)

If RegFan is sticking his neck out for gorilla. So..

gorilla-scum/Skyquiem-town pairing is very, very unlikely
gorilla-scum/Skyquiem-scum pairing is unlikely
gorilla-town/Skyquiem-scum pairing is possible
gorilla-town/Skyquiem-town pairing is possible

So gorilla isn't likely scum.

[Skyquiem]

I told myself I refuse to do another wall D1, but fate isn't as kind as I want it too.

...Fate can go suck it, though. Through a rusty, flimsy straw.

----------------------------------------------

Skyquiem. Are you honestly a hydra?

Of course we are...

Are you even reading?

Although that might be a jab at me not posting as much as my other head, so I'll give you that much. >.>

------------------------------------------------

Mastin continues to read to me as 'TL;DR' that continues to come off as Town, strangely enough.

I do not get Ranmaru's game. What's he after?

Why, oh why does Mana_Ku still continues to not give reasoning behind her/his votes... mind readers none of us are, maam/sir.

Agreeing with my other head on Gorilla being Town- it just oozes from him like smelt gold. So why are there votes on him?

Rising Phoenix feels Town to me as well- good reasoning and all that.

Oh god... please no more walls Mastin... Please? You ramble worse then me on a good day- add piles of words onto that and you get a disaster. Not looking forward to it >.>

Hikari- why the double-same votes in the same exact post? made no sense whatsoever to me. At all.

I am facepalming at the VT claim by silver... why after just 2 votes indeed.

===================================

Skyquiem - Ugh. Hydra. Your schizophrenic mystery posting makes you a very tough read. Head Two is clearly scummier than Head One. But I'm basing that on just generic tells.

By which head do you mean here?

===================================

Actually, KK, that's pretty accurate. I'm just waiting for someone to do something scummy, then pounce on them.

Really...?

Makes a whole lot of sense to me. Yep!

===================================
@Scott

Glad my search was not in vain then...

===================================
This thread needs more InHim and Reya(And me coincidentally enough... but I'll be fixing that after this post: Hopefully...)

And I am caught up!

Yaaaaaaaay.... Yeah no one cares >.>

[mastin2]

Mastin, why didn't you comment on DK's vote on Khan without much reason?

Wasn't comment-worthy. Deity apparently has trust in me as "the town's best hope of winning". He voted the same person as me. I don't see an issue, there. Other than possibly thinking I'm better than I typically am.

On Khan's 236: There's nothing for me to like in it. Nothing positive. Just more of what is to me Khan blatantly pushing people's buttons in very negative ways. Ways I have quite the amount of trouble seeing as being town.

Spoiler: Small Ramble About Motivation

You know that I like to look at people's intentions and motives, right? It's a different level of scumhunting, neither superior nor inferior to the normal level. When I look at people's posts, sometimes, I can see only town motivation in there. Lots of players this game have done so, for instance. Other times, I can see it both ways, and in those cases, I have to use my judgement as to whether it's scum or town motivated. And yet, other times, I see only scum play.

I see a move which makes no sense as town, but makes perfect sense as scum.

And Khan is doing that with his posts right now. His posts I cannot see the town motivation in. But I can see multiple scum reasons for what he is doing. Quite a lot of reasons, in fact. Some of them I'll keep private, but the rest I'll try to work into my case.

Spoiler: My Case

How is that case with his town game in it going? You say "By checking his townplay" Does that mean you haven't gotten around to it? What is taking you?

Other obligations. Some of it's Real Life, unfortunately; I had six hours of my day stolen away by something unavoidable. Rest of it's not. Said other obligations will not continue to hinder my play here in a couple days ago. At least, not nearly as much. (If all goes well, of course. If all goes poorly, then, uh, I have a lot more time to work on this game than I had intended? ) Meaning, progress is slow. I'm jotting notes down about Khan, and have a few links open and/or bookmarked, but haven't started that section yet. Like I said, regardless, I'll have more time in a few days, but this weekend was full of other obligations (holidays do that, you know). Other, long, sleepless obligations. Sorry. :/

if I said i'd not budge onto a Khan lynch, would you bring up 2nd or 3rd FoS lynches to compromise with the town? If so, who would those be?

Sky and Hiraki, in that order. Like I said, though. I am not nearly sold on them being scum, yet. They have elements of their play, which shows town motivation, which shows town thought processes, that shows town stuff. I'm not sold on them being town--and still think at least one of them will flip scum--but I'm far too doubtful of my reads as of this moment to lynch them.

(Compare to Khan, whose posts I can't see any town motivation in. His method lacks that town mindset I am seeing elsewhere.)

Mastin continues to read to me as 'TL;DR'

Eh? What're you saying, here?
I do short posts? (If true, then a miracle has occured! )
I do too long of posts? (D'oh!)
You think I'm skimming your posts? (Due to being busy. :/)

Kinda ambiguous.

Hope this makes sense. I'm kinda exhausted right now. (Not looking forward to all the work I have yet to do. >_<)

[RedCoyote]

[redacted]

[mastin2]

Pine replaces inHimshallibe. Thanks, Pine!

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-----

Well, so much for me ever being able to read that slot.

Pine's replacing into one of the worst possible positions, because I'm likely going to be waffling back and forth on him all day:

He replaced someone I listed as a suspect, but said suspect never gave any content, and therefore I have no idea how STRONG of a suspect he was compared to the rest of the posters, which means...

...Yeah. I think you get the idea. I won't be able to determine his alignment this game.

At all. :/

[mastin2]

Ah, well. I'll have to look at the bright side.

If Pine's town, he's a dang-good player and if he thinks I'm town as well, then we'll be able to effectively bounce ideas off of each other in here, if we synchronize well enough.

(I'm...uh, still working on trying to find a bright side if Pine is scum. I really can't think of any. )

[Skyquiem]

Mastin continues to read to me as 'TL;DR'

Eh? What're you saying, here?
I do short posts? (If true, then a miracle has occured! )
I do too long of posts? (D'oh!)
You think I'm skimming your posts? (Due to being busy. :/)

Kinda ambiguous.

Hope this makes sense. I'm kinda exhausted right now. (Not looking forward to all the work I have yet to do. >_<)

Meaning you make too long of posts most times for me- I basically just skim them for the important bits now, because TL;DR...

Also, I think we'll be able to manage...

-Mystery Head