Deadline with banked time is the 14th, deadline without using any banked time is the 9th.
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
Honestly, I would be okay with a last-minute Sevei speedwagon if the DH wagon is gonna break up. I get my blood, we get info... everybody wins.
And I know it's scummy to suggest a lynch on this basis alone but I'm just gonna say it anyways: also, her team is saved the trouble of needing a replacement.
And there's a higher than zero chance we'll win. That too.
If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
mith wrote:Actually... LlamaFluff: Let's say we're in some hypothetical totally implausible alternate reality where you and DH are scumbuddies, and one of you getting lynched ends the game. What would you be doing to "stop the wagon" other than repeatedly calling him town and voting for his attackers?
Sticking to my guns on one of you/sotty for one. Its obvious who supports what wagon and to what extreme, the best way to stave off the DH lynch would be to vote the right wagon and create the right arguements. Toggling back and forth constantly only creates no solid response to the wagon on DH and likely results in his lynch.
Also you really think he would attack me on crap misunderstandings like he did yesterday if we were scum together?
I dont see DH-scum without Sevei-scum here. Everyone else is either too gung-ho to lynch him or makes no sense as a partner. I would vote Sevei over DH.
Well, if it's either Sevei or me, you know what my choice is going to be. I'd rather lynch mith over Sevei (or even Sotty), because I honestly don't see what everyone sees in her (or my teammates, I'm still waiting on that case). However, it would answer a TON of questions OR win the game for us.
Unvote, Vote: Sevei
. I would rather lynch mith a million times over, though. However, IP is right. I DID have early day suspicions on Sevei for her D1 play, and I don't know if I'm just being tricked by her interactions with DGB.
DemonHybrid wrote:I would rather lynch mith a million times over, though.
Well, is it going to be mith, or will it HAVE to be Sevei? Some people aren't willing to vote mith, and I'll gladly switch back if some people actually agree on him.
Some thoughts I'm mulling over right now... I want to see Sevei's replacement. What this game needs is a set of fresh eyes to look upon it because a bunch of the old eyes are tired and don't care to do whatever rereading should be done in light of the new reactions and information of sorts that have come about from today. If Sevei's slot is scum, that will hopefully become apparent because of something I'm about to do. If Sevei's slot is town, we
need
that replacement.
Basically, what I'm asking is, don't hammer Sevei's slot without waiting for a replacement first. Once that happens, we can decide then how to best proceed.
Equinox wrote:Some thoughts I'm mulling over right now... I want to see Sevei's replacement. What this game needs is a set of fresh eyes to look upon it because a bunch of the old eyes are tired and don't care to do whatever rereading should be done in light of the new reactions and information of sorts that have come about from today. If Sevei's slot is scum, that will hopefully become apparent because of something I'm about to do. If Sevei's slot is town, we
need
that replacement.
Basically, what I'm asking is, don't hammer Sevei's slot without waiting for a replacement first. Once that happens, we can decide then how to best proceed.
Unvote, Vote: Sevei
L-2
TBM: Can we get a few days extension on the deadline after Sevei's replacement?
Yo, Sotty7. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 representing greatest difficulty and 10 representing greatest ease, how do you find DrippingGoofball in terms of trying to read her?
(Okay, I suppose I want much more than a number, but I didn't know how to phrase it and not make it a leading question.)
Apparently, I'm on a roll, so I'm looking at Sotty7 first.
Sotty7 (3) - LlamaFluff, Thor665, Chris B
Spoiler: Information Dump
Reference points:
SocioPath drops the first vote for DrippingGoofball in post 154 (May 16, 9:31 PM)
SocioPath makes the case for DrippingGoofball in post 188 (May 17, 11:41 AM)
Sotty7 makes twoattempts to read SocioPath's case, both within 12 hours (May 18, 6:30 AM)
Sotty7 drops the fifth vote for DrippingGoofball in post 252 (May 18, 6:38 PM)
In post [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3091386#p3091386]503[/url], LlamaFluff wrote:This is actually one of the biggest reasons Sotty is scum too. She basically ignores everything that went on between SP and DGB until it came to the point where DGB was obviously in serious trouble and jumped the wagon almost entirely for pressure and rode it out until the end of the day. Following that, Sotty immediately attempts to drum up a "lynch everyone off the wagon" hunt, when herself really had nothing to do with the wagon.
That reads as scum bussing, and then trying to keep attention off of them by diverting the attention to a group that they are not a part of. The best way to not get lynched is to remove yourself from the table while at the same time pulling town off the table in an attempt to get them to agree with you.
Not to mention all of the shennanigans that went on between the marble-sotty interactions and DGB looking at them getting very interested, then trying to defuse them from going after eachother. Reads as scum trying to make sure that their partner is not going to get stuck in a "one or the other" situation when one more scum lynch ends the game.
She gave scum reads on Sociopath (328) and Thor (319).
She gave town reads on Llamarble once, (post 183), Equinox once, (305) and Sotty7 THREE TIMES(post 166) (post 178) (post 183).
Would scum really try to clear town for no good reason?
The argument was made earlier that one scummy thing done by Dripping Goofball was to make the 'alt' argument against me. I agree with this.
On that note: Sotty's post 20:
Sotty7 wrote:
Vote: Chris B
Alt detected.
With regards to Sotty7 being the fifth voter on DGB. I've never liked the argument that scum are more likely to bus on a certain number vote than another one. So I'm not comfortable wth the reverse either, and the fifth vote being the obviously town position. There's still time in there to climb down on a vote.
She also makes the point in post 272 that:
Sotty7 wrote:I had forgotten about DGB's V/LA which sucks because now the power wagon lags as we wait for her to come back. Not cool.
Which strikes me as slowing down that vote.
Complete WIFOM in post 538 which can be summed up as 'Scum wouldn't vote DGB like I did'.
On top of that, she's ignored posts of mine twice now. This post here isn't the first time I've pointed out that the 'alt detected' vote. Also, I've already addressed the scum daytalk thing.
So yeah, it's enough for me to be unconvinced by the town argument.
I recommend at least glancing at the inside of the spoiler to get an idea of how I've organized my thoughts.
Between the time SocioPath posted his case against DrippingGoofball and Sotty7 posted her vote, she chided Llamarble for his choice of RQS questions and his self-vote, asked DrippingGoofball about SocioPath's "third scum claim" and for her opinion of Llamarble, admits that she's tempted to switch her vote to SocioPath, announces a pool (2 of {LlamaFluff, Sevei, mith, DemonHybrid, SocioPath, DrippingGoofball}), and catches up on the DemonHybrid-LlamaFluff-mith exchange. That's a quick summary of her posts up until her DrippingGoofball vote.
From her posts up to this point, I'm seeing a connection between DrippingGoofball, Llamarble, and Sotty7. Sotty7 attacks Llamarble for his early behavior, to which Llamarble responds with a case against Sotty7. Sotty7 asks DrippingGoofball for her opinion, and DrippingGoofball responds with a case on Llamarble that segues into a case on SocioPath; further, we have her emphasizing three times that she can't tell Llamarble apart from LlamaFluff. (See below.) DrippingGoofball later concludes that Llamarble and Sotty7 are both town.
LlamaFluff's argument logically follows his stance that both scum would bus DrippingGoofball in order to play to a long-term goal. His vote movements so far today -- switching between mith and Sotty7 -- also follows this line of logic. I may look into other opinions he's voiced, but for now I think I lean town on LlamaFluff. I don't know if I agree with him about Sotty7 looking off the wagon as a scum tell, though. Looking at her posts at the start of Day 2, she seems to have based that off her reads of the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon; that sounds like a reasonable thing to do.
Quick correction to Chris B's case: DrippingGoofball called me town in post 110 as well, so that makes twice. As for the case itself, I don't agree so much with "Alt detected" being a scum tell, given that it was RVS. (Oh, don't you guys love it when "It was RVS!" is used as an excuse?) It does show some lack of thought, though; creating an alt for the purposes of playing Team Mafia doesn't seem all that optimal, given that this is the sort of arrangement where it'd be a lot more fun to play on a main account. I can see the reasoning behind the rest of the points, but Sotty7's reactions to them feel like a town reaction. (At this point, I'm starting to wonder if this post I'm writing isn't just one huge giant waste of time and space. Bleh?)
Um... I think Thor665 was on Sotty7 for gut or something?
I have a thought that was going to go here, but I think it'd be best if I waited for Sotty7 to respond to my question about DrippingGoofball first. In other news, I appear to have turned an investigation of the cases against Sotty7 into reads of the people making them.
I'll go to the team and see what they think of {DrippingGoofball, Llamarble, Sotty7}. Also, I'm pretty much beat right now, and all I want to do is sleep. Maybe my dreams will tell me if I've been mistaken about Sotty7.
A similar examination of DemonHybrid and mith may or may not be coming soon. I dare not make any promises that I'm not entirely sure I can keep.
A quick parting thought that is a day late and a dollar short...
Llamarable >>> I keep mixing him up with the other Llama.
LLamaFluff >>> #22 self-meta why he's town ??? Votes Equitownx? Aggressive jump on Klazam is good, though. I agree with #76
Someone mentioned this previously in the thread, but this looks really forced. She's also done it only to Llamarble, which makes things interesting. I'm tempted to run a flash wagon on Llamarble, but then again I want the Sevei wagon to stay put until things happen. If only I had a double vote!
A team pony continues to nag me about LlamaFluff and not even the Llama Song would appease him. Said pony actually wants me to re-vote LlamaFluff and get him lynched, but I'm tired and don't really want to make another gigantic excavation. Thus, I am going to compromise and ask LlamaFluff for a full list of reads. From a skim of your posts, I see you've posted reads here and there, but I'd like all of your reads collected together in one post, please.
I'm too tired to fully express my level of displeasure with people jumping off DemonHybrid, but: BLEH.
Already had a town lean on Sevei, and the sudden compromise wagon on her blossoming out of nowhere, particularly given the timing of her being replaced, stinks. I won't be voting for Sevei.
Amrun: If it were anyone else, yeah, pretty much. As it is, I think it actually points to you being town, because short of some sort of genius subtle gambit attempt to soil the DemonHybrid wagon I don't see you doing that as his scumbuddy, and I also don't think you're scum with anyone else, so... PoE. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
I'm also not voting Sevei. Equi wants to see the replacement but will put the slot at L-2 in a town that is dying for a lynch. I don't understand that.
As for how hard is DGB to read, I'd give her an 8/9 out of ten. She is one of the hardest players on these boards to read in my opinion. Sometimes I will think she is out and out town, but she flips scum and then in reverse. Your ponies should know this as well after our recent experience with DGB. Normally I tend to leave her out to be sorted by the night, if she is town she will be night killed soon enough. I ignored this question when you first asked it because it's pretty pointless now with her dead, but whatever. The fact you're asking it again suggests it's important somehow, I can't see it how.
Only skimmed so far this morning. I'll be back later to read for real.
Equinox wrote:Said pony actually wants me to re-vote LlamaFluff and get him lynched, but I'm tired and don't really want to make another gigantic excavation.
I'd be okay with this. And at least your team's reading this game... >:|
unvote, vote: Sevei
I WANT BLOOD
If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
So I am fairly certain the scum are in this group: {mith, Sotty, Llamarble}
Won't be voting anyone else today, except I'd probably hammer either DH or Sevei if it was an actual choice between no lynch and a flip and I was the only hope for any flip whatsoever. Still severely prefer one of the above three, though.
mith isn't scum, of that I am pretty sure of right now, anyone else paying attention should come to the same conclusion.
I need to rework my suspects again which right now feel all over the place. I'm not lynching Sevei or mith today. Will lynch DH, Fluff and possibly Amrun. I need to do some reading.
As for network:
I'm actually being pretty stringent about what teams I rule out since ruling-out-scumteams can $^%# us if we rule out the actual scumteam.
But flashwagons / wagons that truly threaten to lynch are great for the purpose, and having more than 1 in a day helps a lot.
Sotty7 wrote:mith isn't scum, of that I am pretty sure of right now, anyone else paying attention should come to the same conclusion.
This was my gut town read on mith since Day 1; I had to protect my fellow pony, so I horsed around a bit. Now I'm glad the game's over because that means I have one less gargantuan thing to write up.
InflatablePie wrote:I WANT BLOOD
So do I, but I want Sevei's replacement's thoughts more.
All right, here's a thought my team and I want to entertain today because, with the way things are going, I'd rather address this today than tomorrow. It's regarding this:
Equinox wrote:A quick parting thought that is a day late and a dollar short...
Llamarable >>> I keep mixing him up with the other Llama.
LLamaFluff >>> #22 self-meta why he's town ??? Votes Equitownx? Aggressive jump on Klazam is good, though. I agree with #76
Someone mentioned this previously in the thread, but this looks really forced. She's also done it only to Llamarble, which makes things interesting. I'm tempted to run a flash wagon on Llamarble, but then again I want the Sevei wagon to stay put until things happen. If only I had a double vote!
I'd like to chain lynch LlamaFluff and Llamarble, as the team strongly believes there is scum within this pair or else DrippingGoofball wouldn't have gone to such lengths to emphasize Llamarble. My own personal theory was that she had the intention to post this "confusion" at least once, but she may have forgotten that she'd already said it by the third time. I realize I'm playing in WIFOM here, but it's something I am willing to bet on.
Personally, I want to start with LlamaFluff. DrippingGoofball doing this to Llamarble-buddy is too obvious of a link, even if she did it only once. Case in point: The quote above, where I pointed at Llamarble for this connection. Furthermore, I think I have a reasonable chance of success in at least wagoning up LlamaFluff today, given that I'm (alternatively, my team) the one who suspects him the most; my fear is that you'll have significantly more trouble doing that when I'm not pushing it, whereas you guys seem to be able to run up Llamarble on your own.
The fellow pony says that he really dislikes the fact that LlamaFluff has been focusing on people on the DrippingGoofball wagon given that he himself was off it. I haven't had the chance to look into this deeper, but it's something I'm definitely doing when I go home. However, I'm going to go with this:
Vote: LlamaFluff
I do not plan on moving off LlamaFluff today. Discuss.
