DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[inHimshallibe]

Maybe it was just me

Now you understand.

You may be right and I'm letting history get in the way. I still didn't see it happening.

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: You brought this on yourselves

RC having an unsupported scumread of me (well supported by way of cheeky, "he COULD be scum" comments) is on record.

I don't like you trying to control Troop deployment. Your scum/town reads are all over the place (namely on me, inHim, and Pooky). And Fate's cutesy scum claims make me nervous. You'd be a great first lynch.

You're calling me scum AGAIN this game and you are WRONGAGAIN.

How convincing.

Also, can you say paranoid?

---

I'd rather you had Airbase than any of the 'Trollers' for a number of reasons truth be told.

Who would this include?

---

I can't see why he'd pull this stunt as scum in this game. As SK I can see, but not as Eurotrash.

That's just straight WIFOM. Maybe he pulled this stunt because he knew people would say that he'd never pull this stunt as scum.

The fact of the matter is, he's making the scum's job easier in picking their Troop lists. That's scummy, and I'm going to call him out for that.

---

ESPECIALLY since you know my meta is to claim scum ONLY as town.

Right.

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@RC: What do you not get about my stance on SDC?

You seemingly went back and forth three times. See my large post where I've quoted you.

the fact that they're dying before MYLO to prevent any shenanigans should mean that if you are town, you should have no reason to want to stop them.

What are they going to do? Have someone nuke them?

---

If anyone wonders why I tend to not produce on a large scale, you might want to consider the possibility that it's because everyone likes to ignore what I actually say and just call me scummy instead. My conversation with Vi is case in point.

Cry me a river, kid.

---

You keep changing your mind on the Fail Safe thing, do you suggest going for it or no?

Don't. At first I thought it was reasonable, but I didn't really compare the vengeful kills to a nuclear silo, you know, pound for pound. The nukes would be more of a threat to scum.

If you think dana is ALWAYS too self-interested, then self-interested playstyle from dana should be null, not scummy. Comes off as if you are uncommitted to your position on him.

This is a fair point, but I don't put much stock into that sort of metastuff. I was bringing it up more as an anecdotal opening than anything else. The point is, he's overly concerned about himself and how other people see him in comparison to his overall contributions so far. I don't find that to be indicative of a town-aligned player.

Of your reads, who is your strongest scum read and who is your strongest town read?

At this point either ML or AV would be my strongest scumreads. My strongest townread is probably SP.

---

Blind alliance cause of SCDAIRBASEREACTION?

I wasn't being literal. I'll try to add more smileys the next go around.

---

This, I like.

---

@Mina:

How likely did you think it was that you could come up with a breaking plan for the powers? You had experience with DEFCON 2, but the tone I'm getting from your posts in #241 and #253 is that you put some significant time into it. True/false?

There's no game breaking plan. There's just some bullshit "everyone let me have Airbase so I can get as far in this game as possible not because I want to do what's best for the town but because I'm in it for myself" plan.

---

I don't read people

I nuke people

Then that would be a good reason to rid ourselves of you as soon as possible.

---

Um, no. What I was inquiring at around the beginning of defcon 4 was if we publicly (in thread) allocated 4 players to each role. It was said somewhere that the more people picking each role, less likely scum were to get it. Obviously scum could deviate, but it would be detrimental to them. How is this statement in any way shape or form scummy?

Because the scum have a QT to plan in...?

All these town----->scum lists floating around now need to dissipate. I don't need a laundry list of every player in the game (who everyone also happens to be reading), what people need is pointed attacks on those doing scummy things.

Trying to get mutual reads from other players is very protown.

These two statements contradict. You're saying by "laundry list" you mean something else, I guess, but I don't see how. What lists are striking you as random? True, I've seen untenable reads (a large part of my dislike of SDC), but those are just pieces in part of a greater whole.

I'm assuming you're referring to Regfan's post. If so, do you not suspect he will simply be building off of this? I mean, I doubt throwing those reads out there for fun.

I am going to be nuking (should I have a nuke) the player with the lowest post count as soon as we get to DEFCON 1. Don't be that player.

This is a good idea in theory, but I hope you take into account post length as well.

---

^RedCoyote disproving Hinduragi vote [/injoke]

---

Hey, SpyreX? Gamma? Do you actually think Hez is scum, or are you just policy-wagoning him?

This. This. This.

I was a bit too unclear in my condemnation of Hez. He needs to be dealt with via nukes. He should not be a lynch consideration. His lynch will do nothing but cause a pointless back and forth over policy that won't necessarily apply to the actual game.

---

I've come close to revealing whether I was going for Nukes or PRs twice now >_> It's quite easy to let it slip whether you're nuking or not. A couple of other people have already done so. I figure if I keep making the point then people will stop doing it/I'll remember not to myself.

Perhaps for scum it is. I have no interest in showing my hand at all. The only people I could imagine wanting to do so would be doing so because they want to draw attention away from them (scum).

---

In penance for indulging myself, I'm going to be good and not

make a snarky response to

answer Red's points on me unless he asks for a defence.

No, you've actually done well to hold back on this. I'm really glad you didn't, in fact. It makes it seem like you're not concerning yourself with petty criticism and are more focused on the big picture. Your last few posts have all been solid, so I'm fully backpedaling from any real heavy scummy stance I had against you.

I'm more concerned with people who saw you townie for no reason (inHim being one, but I know there was at least one more).

---

I considered holding the information, but reflected that CI may as well be a Miller equivalent claim in this game given the way Kat eschewed the role for town players. I knew I was going to put it in my top spot when the game began, because I prefer denial over giving myself a PR. I had a similar list in DC2. Claiming it earlier was to show I wasn't worried about claiming it, and to let the Scanners and Eavesdropper know that they can trust their results (so long as they can trust me).

If I'm NKed, then lol@scum for killing more or less a Vanilla role at this point, which still serves it's purpose of protecting American PRs.

I really, really like this post. This is exactly why I came out against what SDC and, to a lesser extent, Kat were doing. Toogeloo is town.

---

Exactly whom are you defending yourself from? The town as a whole? I didn't even mention any of those points. For so early in the day, isn't this is a bit excessive?

This is precisely what I was thinking when reading that post. AV, my poor AV, has got to eat the first lynch this game, I'm afraid.

---

If I had a gun to my head, I'd say... no. He's cheeky. He's not rock solid scum by a margin.

However, in this setup? Hell no. He's not getting the CHANCE to be cheeky.

This is what your nuclear silo is for, my dear Spy.

---

vote: HezLucky

Glad to see we've got 4 blatantly pro-town players. It gives me a little faith in the American people.

No mention of AV, AV's wagon, AV's voters, or the criticism of the Hez wagon = scum

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Vote: Internet Stranger

(L-11)
because Zhero was a B4574rD and I put more faith in that than the HezLucky and AurorusVox wagons.

I hope this is more you criticizing the current leading wagons than it is you seriously contending that this is valid rationale.

(What Magua said in post 605)

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I don't vote until I'm completly caught up with the thread. You also realize the contradiction in this post, right? You're attacking me for not placing a vote while claiming me scum and witholding your vote.

This is a great point, AV.

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I never said "I'm not lurking, so I'm not scum." I'm saying that scum can feasibly just sit on their hands and wait for today to kick it up a notch, if they wanted, and no one would really care all that much.

Yeah, but it's almost like your were begging the question just so you could make this point.

Is everything I'm saying just digging the hole deeper? Am I really acting that scummy?
I'm asking that honestly because I'm town and if I'm just distracting everyone then I'll just shut up for a day or two so you can all decide who (other than me) you think is scum.

"What do I have to do to get you guys to unvote me?! ;_;"

My poor AV! Like Mina, I feel guilty voting you. What are you? France? Germany? I'm sure I'll miss whatever your once glorious nation provided this world.

---

actually, screw it, i'm going to follow my heart here - this is a scummy post

It is. I'm surprised you're the first one to bring it up.

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As promised, here are the bastard Eurotrash scum that are attempting to manipulate the game early on by subliminally putting out these bullshit lists of scum/town without any useful information.

1) I took notes all throughout this game. They were behind the spoiler tag. Those elaborated on why the people were where they were.
2) Once the players recieve their role PMs, the game is officially a go. Not bullshit lists. Players can be read from the start of the game to the very end, and you know that.

OMGUS!

Vote: Vi

This is a horrible vote. Not because of the OMGUS, which makes no difference, but because there is no groundswell for a Vi lynch. Vi is not going to be lynched. Likewise, Vi voting you was just as bad (actually it was probably a little worse) for the same reasons.

---

Looking at AV in Defcon III now. Ok, so here's what I got from Defcon II AV.

Your entire defense of AV seems completely derived from meta with the exception of your opening statement where you admit that he is "picking his words too carefully".

Unless I'm wrong, that is a suspicious thing to do in your eyes, right?

This is not a good post outside of your support of a dana wagon and your dismissing the Hez wagon.

---

I still prefer a Hez lynch, though, because he's 100% anti-town, whereas Hinduragi is 60-70% scum.

There are so many controversial things in this sentence alone... why don't you just apologize for making such a bad statement?

We need to lynch either AV, dana, ML, Pooky, or SDC today. In that order.

Vote: AurorusVox

[Hinduragi]

You comment on Dana\Hez. Commenting on AV ic cool - but you leave out one of your top three scum reads and comment on somebody like Ludi\SpyreX?

ITT not mentioning all your scumreads in a post means you're scum. Spyrex was on the wagon I called a mislynch/avoid-bandwagon target. Ludi looks bad and needed more attention.

IS, I called your slot scum after you replaced in. I didn't forget about you, you just weren't worth mentioning. All you've said so far is "Vi is scum for being a white knight and misreading Zhero, who I replaced" and "Some of the people putting out read lists are scum". So, you're right. I really don't have much to go on.

1.) Scum can be on a mislynch and avoid the main bandwagon by hopping onto that type of wagon. People pay more attention to a wagon if you bring it up in that context. Inhim's right about the nuke thing when it comes to Hez, though.
2.) I never said anything about all of his posts not containing anything close to town-related content. I said that for you. I said he was chaotic and contradictory. Specifically his "I'll nuke Spyrex, no wait I won't. I'll continue threatening nuking people if it gives you town reads" and his 562.

RC: I'm pretty sure SDC is town. AV a little too, but not as much as SDC.

You know what pisses me off? I posted a pretty damning piece on the entire AV wagon and it gets ignored.

[Screaming Death Clan]

SPYREX GODDAMMIT.
THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY FOR NOW.

Vi your vote on IS is pretty funny. hooooo boy

SPYREX YOU'RE BELIEVING' THIS SHIT SHE'S SPEWIN?
WHY
WHY
WHY

Which is exactly what INTERNET STRANGER IS DOING.

stop this town on town nonsense
IS is town albeit fuckin' annoying and I'm not sure exactly how he's flying under the radar


zzzzzzzzz i got to page 25 then I stopped dammit I want Fate back
more later today

[MagnaofIllusion]

Count me in with the group of players who see Vi’s play and think it is suspicious. She’s responding to players and throwing out the occasional soft suspicion but not really working solidly at all to push any of her suspects.

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@Hind – You seem to have missed it in your ‘getting into” this game.

Why MUST Magua be lynched at DEFCON1. (which you posted in your ISO 14)

--

Who would this include?

Magua, ooba, whoever else wanted to stick it to SDC-Fate by crushing his ‘plan’.

You are underestimating the secondary benefits as a whole the Town would get by SDC having Airbase (aka not having something else). This of course doesn’t apply if SDC is the Terrorist.

--

"Why is he scummy?"
Because he's been trying to scare people off his lynch by raging at them.

This is a staple ‘go to’ move of some player in this game – “attacking the attacker” with zeal. It is an established part of both Town and Scum games for these players.

Are you suggesting it is always a scum-tell when you see this activity?

@Mina: in SAIII where I was town, I drew a lot of early heat on D1, from Scum SpyreX and SK-hopeful-MoI, in particular. You read me as town then. I'm seeing parallels to that game...but no Mina townread? This upsets me.

Hmmm … I don’t recall Town AV coming under ‘a lot of heat’ D1 and Stars Aligned 3. I remember you having a little tiff with Spyrex but my memory recalls Furc, Fate, Benmage and ReaperCharlie all getting substantially more pressure than you.

I’m going to go back and refresh my memory on that game.

I'll take the rope today if needed but first people need to look elsewhere because when I flip town you'll all realise that today has been a waste, since most of the people on my wagon have simply voted and haven't even explained it,

so it's not like I (or anyone else) can even do a proper wagon analysis to see who I (etc.) think is scum or town.

Yet in light of the bolded you were happy earlier to throw out who you thought was scum on your wagon. Inconsistent. Either you can't get a good idea and are just throwing darts or the above isn't valid. Pick your poision.

--

Which is exactly what INTERNET STRANGER IS DOING.

But why aren’t Sociopath, Swift Justice, SDC or any number of normally prolific posters who aren’t lighting up the boards suspect in your eyes? Why is Internet Stranger the only one you mention?

--

actually, screw it, i'm going to follow my heart here - this is a scummy post

Please articulate why dana using American rhetoric in his posts is scummy but others doing so (IS, Pooky) doing so don’t get a peep of suspicion from you.

[inHimshallibe]

actually, screw it, i'm going to follow my heart here - this is a scummy post

Please articulate why dana using American rhetoric in his posts is scummy but others doing so (IS, Pooky) doing so don’t get a peep of suspicion from you.

I find it interesting that you jump to the American rhetoric as gorilla's main reason for suspicion. I would tend to think of dropping the line "4 pro-town players..." and not naming them is the scummier bit.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I find it interesting that you jump to the American rhetoric as gorilla's main reason for suspicion. I would tend to think of dropping the line "4 pro-town players..." and not naming them is the scummier bit.

Well, you'd have to be pretty thick not to see that the 4 Pro-Town players dana was talking about were the four previous Hez voters.

So the American rhetoric is the only other element left.

[inHimshallibe]

I find it interesting that you jump to the American rhetoric as gorilla's main reason for suspicion. I would tend to think of dropping the line "4 pro-town players..." and not naming them is the scummier bit.

Well, you'd have to be pretty thick not to see that the 4 Pro-Town players dana was talking about were the four previous Hez voters.

So the American rhetoric is the only other element left.

Agreed that it's pretty obvious who the 4 were. I'd still wager it's more in the presentation/wording of the "4 players" bit than the rhetoric, but I suppose gorilla's the only one that can answer that.

[inHimshallibe]

vote: Lady Lambdadelta

Is there a reason I should not do this? I mean, I'll probably generously offer up an L-1 vote to anyone I don't consider town *coughAVOXcough* and let SpyreX have honors, but I seem to recall some listing LLD as town.

[SpyreX]

To be fair, he didn't list the whole playerlist, which is what he was complaining about.

Also, Spy, were you using the replace-out as a reason to suspect Zhero/IS? 'Cause that's the main reasoning that I get from IS's post.

Gamma is towntowntowntowntown.

Well if we want to be technical neither did I since there was a whole mess of ffffff in that midrange.

I wanted Zhero dead before the replacement as dead weight. IS I kinda bounced around but that lists r bad fer 'merica post was such a caricature of himself that I don't even.

Personally, Hez can eat a nuke, but that's because I don't read him as town, not for cheapass scumhiding reasons.

So close and yet so far.

Maybe its a difference but I'm reading this "Ohh I've turned over a new leaf guys" as bunk. Which to me means worst case scenario I'm stopping a terrible nuke and best case a dead scum.

SPYREX GODDAMMIT.
THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY FOR NOW.

Vi your vote on IS is pretty funny. hooooo boy

SPYREX YOU'RE BELIEVING' THIS SHIT SHE'S SPEWIN?
WHY
WHY
WHY

LETS ARGUE ABOUT THIS LATER I DONT WANT TO BOUNCE BOUNCE UP INS.

The IS vote is ffaahish BUT IS's reply and shenanigans are MORE fffahish come on now work with me.

vote: Lady Lambdadelta

Is there a reason I should not do this? I mean, I'll probably generously offer up an L-1 vote to anyone I don't consider town *coughAVOXcough* and let SpyreX have honors, but I seem to recall some listing LLD as town.

I did and when I think LLD I think "yea, probably town"

But I can't remember why?

[gorilla]

actually, screw it, i'm going to follow my heart here - this is a scummy post

Please articulate why dana using American rhetoric in his posts is scummy but others doing so (IS, Pooky) doing so don’t get a peep of suspicion from you.

reads as cheerleading or buddying players on the wagon, tone is not consistent with his overall style of posting (he goes so far as to decry IS and pooky in ISO #10). IS and pooky's rhetoric looks to be more for yukks. atm I see nothing sinister about pooky, IS i dunno about.

[RedCoyote]

You know what?

Unvote

;

vote: danakillsu

Either dana or AV would make wonderful lynches, but I'd rather try and prop this wagon up some as the main competitor to the AV wagon (as opposed to the Hez wagon). This is not in response to Hindu's 677. Speaking of,

You know what pisses me off? I posted a pretty damning piece on the entire AV wagon and it gets ignored.

• Your entire defense of AV seems completely derived from meta with the exception of your opening statement where you admit that he is "picking his words too carefully".
  
  Unless I'm wrong, that is a suspicious thing to do in your eyes, right?

I would love to engage you over this, Hindu.

@Everyone: If we could make the first lynch a competition between dana and AV, I think we'd be off to such a good start. Both of these lynches are based on very solid ground at this point. Hez, well, not so much.

[inHimshallibe]

So, tell me RC.

You think AurorusVox is scum but needs a competitor wagon? OH NO, GET BACK ON THAT AVTRAIN CHOOCHOO.

[danakillsu]

Love how all that is based on nothing but logic and doesn't try to get people to do what you want by simply telling them to do it. [/sarcasm]

I'm sure not being a part of making this me vs. AV, especially since I don't have a scumread on AV.

[danakillsu]

^ in response to RC

[MagnaofIllusion]

reads as cheerleading or buddying players on the wagon, tone is not consistent with his overall style of posting (he goes so far as to decry IS and pooky in ISO #10). IS and pooky's rhetoric looks to be more for yukks. atm I see nothing sinister about pooky, IS i dunno about.

So Pooky's statements along the lines of "Anyone who suspects Internet Stranger is a Eurotrash sympathizer" doesn't look like buddying to you?

[RedCoyote]

You think AurorusVox is scum but needs a competitor wagon? OH NO, GET BACK ON THAT AVTRAIN CHOOCHOO.

I think they're both scum.

And every lynch would always benefit from a competitor wagon. Later in the game, after flips have occurred, we can look to these "either or" decisions through the context of VCA.

If the dana wagon supplants the Hez wagon, I think we'll be in such good shape to make players choose between these two for a lynch.

dana vs AV > Hez vs AV > One strong lynch and a bunch of aimless votes (Vi's and IS' votes are good examples) > One strong lynch and everyone else not voting.

---

Love how all that is based on nothing but logic and doesn't try to get people to do what you want by simply telling them to do it. [/sarcasm]

Well, yeah, bro, because I'm town.

I'm thinking in the long term. I'm thinking, "How will people find the third/fourth scum on D4/5?" The best way to do this would be to force all players to commit their votes to logical, popular wagons. This doesn't mean I think other players shouldn't try to get their wagons more popular, but it just so happens that the two people I want to see dead the most are the first and third most popular vote getters. You better believe I'm going to be on my soapbox.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think they're both scum.

And every lynch would always benefit from a competitor wagon. Later in the game, after flips have occurred, we can look to these "either or" decisions through the context of VCA.

Um whut?

You think both Dana and AV are scum. What information are you going to be getting from dueling wagons? It's not like, if you are correct, you are going to be able to say "Aha, Player X is scum because they favored the AV wagon over the Dana wagon". Given at worst the Mafia have Silos there isn't a one is a PR, one isn't debate.

If one was scum and one was Town there's a purpose to dueling wagons.

I don't see a point if both are scum.

Bonus scum-points to RedCoyote.

[inHimshallibe]

^5 MoI

[Internet Stranger]

Oh so Hinduraki says im not worth mentioning. As a proud American, I point out scummy European socialist behavior, but he simply dismisses it as some one liner summary. Then he has the gall and complain that he isnt appreciated. That Hinduraki isnt being taken seriously and ignored. Guess what chucklehead, you cant act like some trashy European and expect anyone to pay any attention to you. You can sit on your cheese and whine away like some fruity scummy French socialist, but that doesnt mean that us Americans dont take notice.

We know you Euroscumbags are sitting over there past the ocean. But if all youre going to do is bitch and complain and try to defend your Eurotrash companion (like Vi and SpyreX), then you will be noticed by us watchful and vigilant Americans. And let me tell you HinduScum, you dont want to be noticed. Once the American superiority deems you as some weenie socialist threat, you will be dealt with accordingly. There are plenty of nukes to go around, keep this up and you will be taking the next one, after Vi.



So RC, you want me to give up my intuition, to give up my ingenuity, give up my freedoms and follow the crowd of lemmings on their way to lynch AV? And you say that youre not a Eurotrash Socialist scumbag?


Looks like SpyreX is back to trying to stand back and snipe at me like some cowardly European. Dont think youre safe standing far away SpyreX. Us proud, powerful Americans have the ability to put a nuke anywhere. You have nowhere to hide, scum.


Oh, SDC, dont think you can buddy up to me now because im going after your Socialist friends and uncovering them for the scumbags that they are. There is no reprieve, you cant just simply surrender like a cheese eating monkey when the pressure is on. Us Americans dont take kindly to weakness. Youre in the crosshairs scum, and you and all your Eurotrash scumbags will feel true American might.

Come DEFCON 1, the socialists will pay.

[inHimshallibe]

Love how all that is based on nothing but logic and doesn't try to get people to do what you want by simply telling them to do it. [/sarcasm]

Well, yeah, bro, because I'm town.

I'm thinking in the long term. I'm thinking, "How will people find the third/fourth scum on D4/5?"

The best way to do this would be to force all players to commit their votes to logical, popular wagons. This doesn't mean I think other players shouldn't try to get their wagons more popular, but it just so happens that the two people I want to see dead the most are the first and third most popular vote getters. You better believe I'm going to be on my soapbox.

Euch. Town mindset is to kill one and then just kill the other. You're not contributing anything by pushing the secondmost popular wagon if you think they're both scum.

vote: RedCoyote

Offer's still on the table to L-1 most wagons.

[RedCoyote]

If one was scum and one was Town there's a purpose to dueling wagons.

I don't see a point if both are scum.

As much as I appreciate your deference to my judgment, as crazy as it sounds, sometimes even I cannot predict scum perfectly.

Although I do think they are both scum, I'm realistic enough to think that that would, statistically speaking, be extremely improbable.

That being said, even if it were the case, wagonning two scum on the first day sounds like a good problem to have.

---

So RC, you want me to give up my intuition, to give up my ingenuity, give up my freedoms and follow the crowd of lemmings on their way to lynch AV? And you say that youre not a Eurotrash Socialist scumbag?

If you honestly think you can get a Vi wagon moving, then have at it. I'm just trying to save you some time.

[RedCoyote]

And why would I advocate a wagon on a person I thought was town anyways?

[inHimshallibe]

If one was scum and one was Town there's a purpose to dueling wagons.

I don't see a point if both are scum.

As much as I appreciate your deference to my judgment, as crazy as it sounds, sometimes even I cannot predict scum perfectly.

Although I do think they are both scum, I'm realistic enough to think that that would, statistically speaking, be extremely improbable.

That being said, even if it were the case, wagonning two scum on the first day sounds like a good problem to have.

---

So RC, you want me to give up my intuition, to give up my ingenuity, give up my freedoms and follow the crowd of lemmings on their way to lynch AV? And you say that youre not a Eurotrash Socialist scumbag?

If you honestly think you can get a Vi wagon moving, then have at it. I'm just trying to save you some time.

And why would I advocate a wagon on a person I thought was town anyways?

At the bold and the latter quote.

I take more issue with you leaving the AV train to pursue a "competitor wagon" when you still think AV is scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As much as I appreciate your deference to my judgment, as crazy as it sounds, sometimes even I cannot predict scum perfectly.

Although I do think they are both scum, I'm realistic enough to think that that would, statistically speaking, be extremely improbable.

That being said, even if it were the case, wagonning two scum on the first day sounds like a good problem to have.

No, not buying this step-back.

You specifically went out of your way to specify that dueling wagons will provide information down the line in finding that 'elusive' 4th or 5th scum. When I point out that it isn't the case suddenly it

1. Well I may be wrong - I clearly understand that is possible.
2. Stastistically it's improbable - So what? That doesn't mean in can't happen.
3. Well it's a Good problem to have - Yeah, but you have suddenly distanced yourself strongly from "both are scum"

So given you've completely backed away from your stance not an hour ago and now don't think both are scum -

What do you think about the composition of the AV wagon since you have moved to dana. Who is scum pushing your newfound Town read?

inhim has it right, I think.

UNVOTE: AV
VOTE: RedCoyote