Mini 1190: Game over

[PJ.]

it can do but i am unsure atm, i voted because i dont think a miller lynch is really ever good day one and toro is pushing it badly.

This is scummy, please refrain from doing this. There are more than 2 people that we can lynch.

[Thomith]

Well i find it scummy that he is pushing the miller lynch which can be a possible clear to be lynched day 1, which is the reason why i voted.

[TBuG]

I want to keep Empking/Toro around for the good points they make

This is the only moment is your post where you even somewhat address your thoughts on Empking and Toro. What are your reads on them? You

surely

have them, given how much of the thread has been them arguing with each other.

I can't put my finger on whether I like or don't like Sundy's post. He could easily be scum trying to avoid lynching the arguing townies. However, scum could also easily keep pushing a lynch on one of them. Idk, I need to start reading in isolation, the more I think about it the less I like Elfen. Lots of posting, but no real content except for fueling the Emp/Toro fire.

Unvote

[TBuG]

That post was missing my theory that the lack of momentum on Empking or Toro mean they aren't one scum, one town like I thought before. I'm get gradually more suspicious that they're both town. But again, need to reread.

[Sundy]

Lalalala

Okay I'm in the bottom half of posters, but with every post I have added content(suspicious in your eyes or not) and I find it kinda pot-kettle that a guy with only two more post than me and went 7 pages without posting is accusing me of lurking.

It is pot-kettle. That said, low-activity is still a pretty good scum-tell, and 1 or more of the lurkers is likely on the scum team. It's not me, so it's probably some of the others.

2&3: This aren't reiterations. These are answers to questions. It's protown to answer questions and clarify things. I had nothing else relevent to posts, so I posted what i needed to

They were repetitive answers to questions. Another word to describe them: Reiterations. I also felt that several of your answers restated points that other players had already made (ex. Toro saying he'd take a cop investigation). They all followed the old Toro/Empking axis of investigation, but didn't seem to me to add anything new.

Man this Panzer makes relevant posts and adds content to the game, I think he's scum

Why are you winking? *eyebrow*

So you admit Jakesh's vote is horrible, yet aren't voting him, why?

I didn't ADMIT his vote was horrible, I SAID his vote was horrible. "Admit" is something scum do when they're trying to hide something. I'm more than happy with a bandwagon on Jakesh. He'd already been called out for his sins (which I noted in my post earlier today). You, on the other hand, have flown under the radar with little attention paid to you (from what I recall, so correct me if I'm wrong, hard to double-check since the thread is already so long), so I decided to post about you. Furthermore, there are other posters with even fewer posts, but they strike me as disengaged, which makes the lurking less of a scum-tell, and more indicative of possible disengagement altogether. Animorph, for instance, I've played a game with where he barely posted, replaced out, and was town.

Also what are your views on Captain Corporal?

I've stated in several posts that he's not giving me bad vibes so far. To expand, I liked his flurry of activity at the beginning. I did think it was a little weird how he tapered off on that, but now he's not a top priority for me.

This is the only moment is your post where you even somewhat address your thoughts on Empking and Toro. What are your reads on them? You surely have them, given how much of the thread has been them arguing with each other.

Empking I find more trustworthy than Toro, but he seems to have a very cool head, so I'm trying not to take him at face-value too much. I support a Toro lynch if it comes to that, but I'd rather talk about some other things first, since the case really started to tunnel and get boring. It would not surprise me if they were both town. I would be somewhat surprised if Empking was scum, less surprised if Toro was scum. I don't think they both are.

[TBuG]

The thing I don't like about Panzer is his suggestion that both Toro and Empking are scum. I see this as nearly impossible when we weren't even focusing on

either

of them before they began attacking one another.

[Captain Corporal]

Urg, sorry for hardly posting. I've been fairly busy IRL. Reviewing the last few pages, then I should be able to get some reads up.

[Empking]

Panzer & Sundy are both big town reads to my mind (Sundy for clearly scumhunting and Panzer for talking complete sense.)

[PJ.]

Not a big fan of Sundy's view on CC. I feel its too easy to have a burst of activity then taper of when the stakes get higher, but we'll see as he catchs up.

@Pbug, I'm thinking I am wrong about both being scum. I have a strong feeling Toro is scum. I'm keeping my vote there for now due to past actions. With Sundy chiming in I feel a lot better about empking.

[xvart]

2. Scum or Town, which is more fun?
<snip>
2. There are differences that make each side unique and good.

What kind of answer is this? To the only question that might be somewhat relevant to the game?

Also: I'm a miller.

Empking - have you ever participated in a miller MD thread?

Awful questions they may be, but I still want everyone to answer =p

Why? What purpose does it serve?

Never played with a Miller D1 claim before. However, Empking is probably town by virtue of Captain Corporal being scum.

Is the claim scummy? Is it a town-tell? Is it neutral?CC

could

be idiotic town (but is likely scum).

What is the relationship between Empking and "fluff posting, possibly idiotic town" CC?

SK is definitely over-enthusiastic scum either distancing or being opportunistic (depending on CC-alignment - SleepyKrew is scum both ways).

In the last two quotes of Hoppster he is already backing down off of his CC scum claim, which convienently comes directly after getting some heat.

And the problem I have with Miller being claimed this early is that it can easily cover Emp's tracks upon investigation by a cop. The way people are all agreeing to it could solidifiy his spot in the closing stages. Don't take this as me wanting to get rid of Empking right off the bat but it's certainly something to think about.

I'm actually on the other side of the fence on miller claiming and that it shouldn't be claimed and the miller should just play as town a game as possible to draw the NK; but that is just a differing opinion and I believe I am in the minority here. So you should really only be concerned about Empking's scum level if he does not play a protown game or has scummy motivations behind his behavior. I think this post might just be a scum flag to fall back on in late stages of the game for mislynch fodder (if Empking is town and Toro is scum).

Sleepy: Yea, but a small amount of discussion was made from my awful questions =p

P-EDIT: @Thomith: Well, I decided to put a fun question in. Also, I fail to see the point of this discussion. Scumhunting time.

My problem is always with people who say "look at all the discussion I have generated despite it being scummy/anti-town" especially when there is no analysis accompanying the defense of the discussion generated. What have you learned from the discussion so far? You have said nothing really related to it.

It's not like I'm the only person here who considers this a possibility, and it's not subtle at all I flat-out provided my reasons for thinking. Nice try trying to say I'm subtly trying to plant an idea. Would a vote legitimize my case for you?

When given the slightest amount of pressure your keeping your eye on Empking is now a full blown case? Why are you asking for someone else to provide justification for you to vote on something you don't think is a definitive scumtell? The fact that you still don't have a vote down at this stage in the game and haven't said anything else is highly suspicious.

I'm going to be watching Empking more and more from here on out, I'm not going to place a vote down on him to start a bandwagon as there is a chance still he actually is Miller. I won't make a final decision on what Empking is until I've read him better down the road. As of now I'm going to re-read back through the thread and look at all of the different conflicts going on.

It is scumtalk. Scum do it all the time to fall back on later. The whole "oh yeah remember back on page four when I said such and such... I should have voted back then." And what is the problem with a wagon forming at this point in the game. Early game bandwagons are the best; and how are you so confident that your one vote on Empking would generate a bandwagon, especially since nobody else has been validating your opinion?

I think you're trying to mis-read what I'm saying back there, you're trying to make it look like I'm pushing it as scum, but it is a strong possibility. Why so jumpy?

If it is a strong possibility you should be voting; especially since you have said nothing else about anyone else. This is your biggest lead right now; but again, it comes back to you pushing a "case" on someone you don't want to push on or someone you don't believe will flip scum.

Post 90 - You just named five people that are likely/leaning scum. This is clearly a post that is forced, by showing pbp analysis when it is page four.

Hoppster's push on Elfin and RVS but not reading is scummy.

I'm up to the beginning of page 7 but this wall is long enough. I'll get some more later but my preliminary thoughts are Toro is definitely scum and Hoppster is likely scum.

VOTE: Toro

[Empking]

[quote]Empking - have you ever participated in a miller MD thread?
[/quote

I don't think so.

[Captain Corporal]

Alrighty. I've generally caught up, but I'm going to read through a few ISOs, mainly Jakesh's, Panzer's, Thomith's, Toro's, Emp's, and anyone else I feel as though I need to review. Also, I'll be posting around this time every day, but not usually any other time. I should get 10 or so posts in each round.

Now. Reads...
Town:
PBuG: I like very much the quality of posts you've been giving, and the amount. It seems you have been genuinely scumhunting and are doing well
Sundy: I

think

I like your posts so far. They are generally pretty good.
Empking: Ok, your miller claim seems alright to me. You've also been scumhunting well, and the fact you've been reaching out on a limb and calling Godfather also strikes me as a towntell.
Xvart: I like what I've seen so far. Your walls are understandable and ask some good questions. Of which I will answer.

What kind of answer is this?

I'll expand, if you wish.
Town - Being town is good because it promotes teamwork, and build on convincing others your case is the best. It is lots of fun discovering the "bad guys", and is still fun when you lose and rage at who actually was scum.
Mafia - Mafia is good because it promotes individuality and working alone. Sneaking and decepting, this role puts you iin the mindset of a criminal, and is great fun.

Why? What purpose does it serve?

As I said before,it promotes discussion.

What have you learned from the discussion so far?

I didn't learn as much as I had hoped, although I do like that fact that you picked up on it. And how was it "scummy" discussion? I fail to see that point.

Sorry, guise, the other reads will have to wait. I really don't feel up to posting much more. I will spend more time tomorrow outliming and going in-depth on my scumreads.

[Empking]

Empking - have you ever participated in a miller MD thread?

I don't think so.

[xvart]

OMFG SURE WHY NOT >_> No. This day is not going to end so soon, i still want to see more people... mainly the ones who have not posted much....

I want this day to end now; so then we can see who all was delaying the lynch under the guise of "more discussion is good bsns" when Toro flips scum.

I'm really not liking panzer's persistence on Empking's activity level throughout his MS tenure.

I'm much more concerned with the reason he claimed, which is because he knew there is a good chance he could get investigated based on who he is.

This. At the point in the game he asked to be investigated if he survived the lynch he would be a prime investigation target tonight. Townie's don't need to fear being investigated and don't need to ask to be investigated. They should be playing a townie game to begin with and if they get investigated no big deal.

why does it seem no one sees EK's reasoning for the GF and Mislynch thing. Emp is saying that Toro is acting like he wants to mislynch and played like a godfather. imo calling toro out for wanting a mislynch seems a little unfair early Day 1 as toro seems to genuinely think EK is scum. The godfather thing i can semi understand the reasoning behind it as godfathers could say that to get "cleared" by the cop. can there be Jesters in Mini-normals? if so i wouldn't be suprised if one of them was the jester.

Are you scum, too? It seems to me that you are agreeing with the case on Toro but you are not voting (anyone); plus all the jester speculation is a distraction.

And how was it "scummy" discussion? I fail to see that point.

Many times RVQ have questions in it that some players can see as the answers helping scum (not saying that is the case here). RVQ seems to always spiral into how anti-town/scummy the original questions were and with your claim that you were intending to generate discussion and you did generate discussion but had posted no follow up to the discussion that was generated put you doing it in the same realm as the previous examples (scum motivations after the fact).

[Toro]

I'm back
So all I've seen is Toto failvoting Elfen (bus?), Toto and Empking yelling at each other, and Toto using terribad logic.

I've never voted Elfen. Do you mean Thomith?

Toro what happened to the "im not voting Empking because there is a chance he is actually miller?" think about it, he might be scum but if we lynch him and he is miller then we just lynched a potential clear. EK doesn't seem like the best lynch today looking at both turnouts.

Does no one here remember me saying 'upon further evaluation?'

Sooooo, since I disagree with 1 of the wagons (SK) and I want to keep Empking/Toro around for the good points they make, I would recommend we redirect our wagon onto ANY of the 6 players above.

Does this snippet sound weird to anybody else?

Sundy what did you mean when reading Panzer's ISO #1 that he missed an Obv-Joke?

[quote="Hoppster 240"What exactly do you mean by "there is a chance still he actually is Miller"?[/quote]

Do you know for sure that Empking is Miller? No.

Do I? No. Although as I've said before I'm certain he's not.

Ok i have decided, Toro's Empking reasoning seems weird, although justified i think it is weird to BW the miller after you said you couldnt vote them not long before. VOTE: Toro

Reasoning motherf--ker have you read it?

Sorry, I've always wanted to twist that Pulp Fiction line.

it can do but i am unsure atm, i voted because i dont think a miller lynch is really ever good day one and toro is pushing it badly.

Hold up, you know that Emp is a miller?

Well i find it scummy that he is pushing the miller lynch which can be a possible clear to be lynched day 1, which is the reason why i voted.

A miller is not a clearable townie. Investigations always come up guilty.

Empking I find more trustworthy than Toro, but he seems to have a very cool head, so I'm trying not to take him at face-value too much. I support a Toro lynch if it comes to that, but I'd rather talk about some other things first, since the case really started to tunnel and get boring. It would not surprise me if they were both town. I would be somewhat surprised if Empking was scum, less surprised if Toro was scum. I don't think they both are.

Did you not say you would keep both myself and Empking around? Why would you vote me if it 'comes to that'?

When given the slightest amount of pressure your keeping your eye on Empking is now a full blown case? Why are you asking for someone else to provide justification for you to vote on something you don't think is a definitive scumtell? The fact that you still don't have a vote down at this stage in the game and haven't said anything else is highly suspicious.

I understand you're still reading through the game but it didn't take long for me to start pushing the case on Emp what with the complete crap about me being Godfather/scum.

[xvart]

Hold up, you know that Emp is a miller?

It is not possible for anyone to know that Empking is a miller unless there is a day role cop, so this is just a passive aggressive way to allude to someone being scum.

I understand you're still reading through the game but it didn't take long for me to start pushing the case on Emp what with the complete crap about me being Godfather/scum.

No. You sat on the fence forever about it, saying you didn't want to push on it because it possible he might be telling the truth while still insinuating that he was scum for claiming it. You were softly pushing a case that you didn't really believe but you wanted a fall back plan for later on (i.e. "remember how Empking might be scum? I think he is now" in LYLO situation or where a desperate lynch was needed. And it did take long for the godfather to discussion came around (page 7).

[SleepyKrew]

I'm back
So all I've seen is Toto failvoting Elfen (bus?), Toto and Empking yelling at each other, and Toto using terribad logic.

I've never voted Elfen. Do you mean Thomith?

Unvote

Vote: Elfen

Ohaitheremisterscum.

[Toro]

I'm back
So all I've seen is Toto failvoting Elfen (bus?), Toto and Empking yelling at each other, and Toto using terribad logic.

I've never voted Elfen. Do you mean Thomith?

Unvote

Vote: Elfen

Ohaitheremisterscum.

Oops, forgot about that one.

[xvart]

I'm back
So all I've seen is Toto failvoting Elfen (bus?), Toto and Empking yelling at each other, and Toto using terribad logic.

I've never voted Elfen. Do you mean Thomith?

Unvote

Vote: Elfen

Ohaitheremisterscum.

At least he self identified his Thomith vote as failvoting (bus?).

[Toro]

I'm back
So all I've seen is Toto failvoting Elfen (bus?), Toto and Empking yelling at each other, and Toto using terribad logic.

I've never voted Elfen. Do you mean Thomith?

Unvote

Vote: Elfen

Ohaitheremisterscum.

At least he self identified his Thomith vote as failvoting (bus?).

It

was not

fail voting. Jeez, if I keep having to defend myself this much over small stuff this is going to be a very interesting game.

[SleepyKrew]

You miss the point.

[Twistedspoon]

Votecount1.8

The next generation of computer chip will pack more than four hundred million transistors into an area the size of a postage stamp.

Toro (5) - Empking, Sleepykrew, Panzerjager, Thomith, Xvart
Sleepykrew(1) - Hoppster
Empking(2) - Toro, Jakesh97
Panzerjager(1) - Sundy

Not Voting (4) - 1Joe60, Captain Corporal, Elfen, PBuG

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch, 6 to no lynch.
The deadline is 6th July GMT 08:00

[/size]

Also, I'm prodding 1joe60 in 11 hours

[PJ.]

I'd rather you just replace 1joe60.

Also, REALLY liking xvart right now.

Toro is becoming more and more obviously scum at this point. Really happy with my vote.

[Empking]

Also, REALLY liking xvart right now.

Toro is becoming more and more obviously scum at this point. Really happy with my vote.

+1

[TBuG]

it can do but i am unsure atm, i voted because i dont think a miller lynch is really ever good day one and toro is pushing it badly.

Hold up, you know that Emp is a miller?

This reeks of scum desperately searching for something to sell us as a slip.

When given the slightest amount of pressure your keeping your eye on Empking is now a full blown case? Why are you asking for someone else to provide justification for you to vote on something you don't think is a definitive scumtell? The fact that you still don't have a vote down at this stage in the game and haven't said anything else is highly suspicious.

I understand you're still reading through the game but it didn't take long for me to start pushing the case on Emp what with the complete crap about me being Godfather/scum.

You managed to

completely avoid

answering his questions whatsoever.

Vote: Toro