NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Parama]

hey moai
kondi's post in the QT is incredibly vague, btw
I had no clue what he was talking about when he said "confirmed"
didn't get it until he explained
and when he explained he townslipped
at which point DH unvoted
I'm actually not seeing the problem here. at all.

[DemonHybrid]

What?

Kondi never expressed the fact that he thought we were

alignment

confirmed UNTIL his first post in the thread on page 4. His first and only post at the time until page 4 in the QT was "Best neighbors ever! Oh, and don't lynch me till later, I want to be able to confirm you guys in the future when it's critical".

He never stated whether he wanted to confirm us as neighbors or as town. Both of us thought he wanted to confirm us as neighbors.

Yeah, and despite the fact that made the exact same mistake as a Neighbor yourself you didn't even consider the possibility that Kondi had done just that.

And? I don't go around assuming people are dumb.

[DemonHybrid]

And yes. I WAS dumb in my first game on site. I thought Neighbor was a fancy term for Mason for some stupid reason.

[Meransiel]

Low.

Did you want an exact number?

No, just wanted to see the response.

[Hydra]

And I think that everyone but you agrees on that, unless I'm mistaken.

Maybe so, doesn't make it right or me wrong. So you seriously believe that a mason would try to convince his mason buddies not to lynch him?

What about it do you think I’m not commenting on?

The townslip.

I’m in pretty much full agreement with AGM that 1 of the 3 probably is Mafia or a Serial Killer of some sort.

You're voting Sens, right?

Do you think we should restrict our lynching to those three players to maximize the chances of hitting scum?

If I believed one of them had to be scum - yeah, a pool of 33% scum with chance to clear 33-66% as town looks like prime hunting to me.
I don't know if I actually buy into that, but I have also expressed a serious question I feel is being shuttled aside under "lol, townslip!" and that is - what sort of 'confirmed alignment' player talks to his confirmed buddies and tells them early on that they shouldn't lynch him just yet - does not compute.

why the hell are you still voting kondi

Because I think he's scum and don't like the counterwagon on me. What of it?

kondi legitimately thought we were all confirmed town to each other. all I need to do is read his post in the neighborhood to confirm that.

Please paraphrase it again.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd be voting for Parama right now were it not for the fact that he was so willing to out the 3 of us.

Why was Parama's willingness to out the neighborship pro-town in your eyes?

[Meransiel]

Maybe so, doesn't make it right or me wrong. So you seriously believe that a mason would try to convince his mason buddies not to lynch him?

I saw this before: "I will claim Mason and that you're in my group so when I flip you guys will b 100% confirmed". So it's reasonable.

You're voting Sens, right?

:goodposting:

[kondi2424]

I don't know if I actually buy into that, but I have also expressed a serious question I feel is being shuttled aside under "lol, townslip!" and that is - what sort of 'confirmed alignment' player talks to his confirmed buddies and tells them early on that they shouldn't lynch him just yet - does not compute.

They were talking about lynching me before I posted in the QT.

[DemonHybrid]

Maybe so, doesn't make it right or me wrong. So you seriously believe that a mason would try to convince his mason buddies not to lynch him?

If we were all masons, that discussion wouldn't even have to come up, so I don't get your point.

Why was Parama's willingness to out the neighborship pro-town in your eyes?

Exactly for the reason MoI and AGM stated: In most cases, there is at least 1 scum in a 3 man neighborhood. Parama, as scum, would have been cornered eventually and quite possibly lynched out of PoE. As I would have.

This is, paraphrased, how the discussion came about:

Me: Parama, if we can assume one scum in the neighbor team at least, should we out the neighborhood? It'd get rid of RVS and whatnot and scum already know who the neighbors are if that's the case.
Parama: I don't really care. In fact, let me do it.
Me: Go ahead.

Looked like he legitimately thought kondi was scum because of his first post in the QT and wanted to push that. He looks sincere.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't know if I actually buy into that, but I have also expressed a serious question I feel is being shuttled aside under "lol, townslip!" and that is - what sort of 'confirmed alignment' player talks to his confirmed buddies and tells them early on that they shouldn't lynch him just yet - does not compute.

They were talking about lynching me before I posted in the QT.

Before you had posted that (again, paraphrased):

Me: Oh, hai Parama.
Parama: kondi. Ew. Otherwise, best neighborhood. We should lynch him to improve the quality of the neighbor team.
Me: Sure. What do you say, kondi?
kondi: (his post)

RVS pressuring was happening before the game even started.

[Meransiel]

That's hilarious. Wouldn't want in a neighborhood with you guys.

[AlmasterGM]

This looks suspiciously like lining up lynches. What happens in the case of a 3-town neighborhood? "Oops, I guess there weren't any scum in that neighborhood, I dun goofed guize!"

Well, yeah - but it's a good thing, not bad. I'd gladly trade 1 town for 1 scum - and that's the worst case odds, since it assumes we lynch the town player first and not the scum player (if we lynch the scum player first, then we're just done).

I don't care that ReaperCharlie reviewed the setup. If one of you is acting even remotely scummy, we're getting the ropes out.

Exactly for the reason MoI and AGM stated: In most cases, there is at least 1 scum in a 3 man neighborhood. Parama, as scum, would have been cornered eventually and quite possibly lynched out of PoE. As I would have.

The opposite would be true, actually. Assume Parama is scum and doesn't claim out of the gate - the neighborhood still would have been outed eventually. When that happened, the same speculation happening now about finding the scum in the trio would occur, and Parama would still be facing a lynch by process of elimination. Thus, on that level, claiming versus not claiming have the same outcome. However, not claiming also carries another risk: Parama randomly getting lynched first by coincidence. If this happens, the scum are down a member and facing two neighbors who are now effectively masons. This is bad. Thus, it is advantegous to the scum to try and acertain the best odds possible by lynching both of the town players first. Then they can try and cling on with lines like "don't set me up as a lynch" (which Parama is using now), but if they do go down anyway, they've at least taken two townies down with them.

Off that topic, this game needs less spam and more voice from the other players on the playerlist.

[Meransiel]

I actually find this quite active, with many contributing. Large, figures.

I still think this finding scum in the neighborhood should be just picked up later when it would benefit us more through info we get. And now, time for something risky.

@Pa, Dh, kondi: Are you just neighbors or some of you also have powers?

[kondi2424]

@Pa, Dh, kondi: Are you just neighbors or some of you also have powers?

Rolefishing.

[Meransiel]

Not in the slightest.

If 1 or 2 of you are PR, you clearly can't be all town, so there's that. Plus, the scum will be forced to kill one of you, ridding us of a potential mislynch anyway. If you all claim vt then nothing really changes, amirite?

[Meransiel]

By the way, people, PBuG is strategic lurking (stalker is me).

[MrBuddyLee]

Cool, so now that klondi is town, there's probably one scum between Parama and DemonHybrid.

I'd gladly trade 1 town for 1 scum - and that's the worst case odds, since it assumes we lynch the town player first and not the scum player (if we lynch the scum player first, then we're just done).

If one of you is acting even remotely scummy, we're getting the ropes out.

Ok. Why aren't you voting for either one of them right now? Which one do you want to lynch at this moment, and why?

[AlmasterGM]

Ok. Why aren't you voting for either one of them right now? Which one do you want to lynch at this moment, and why?

Like I said, we have better odds if we discern which one is scummier first - and I haven't decided yet. If I

had

to choose now, I'd probably say Parama, but that margin is extremely narrow (which is why I'm not voting for one of them). In the meantime, I like my Hydra vote just fine.

[TBuG]

Apologies, was a wee bit busy. Replaced elsewhere and had to read up.

AGM, do you know how hydras even work?

Kondi wagon is ridic. Sure, his post in the neighborhood QT was a bit strange, but not wagon worthy. He seems to think they're alignment confirmed.

FoS: AGM

You die once we get this policy lynch out of the way.

This post annoys me. Passing it off as a policy lynch and FoSing the first person who doesn't join your wagon?

The wagoning is annoying. Why is everyone scummy already?

The Hydra bullshit is even more annoying. Why does not signing one's posts have to be such a big deal? They have the same role and a scumtell is a scumtell.

Wow, SensFan seems to like piggybacking on other people's thoughts. First the kondi wagon, then the anti-Hydra sentiments.

12 violations of #1 and counting. So how about we start signing posts, eh?

@Ythan - I'm being honest, even if I agreed to sign my posts, I wouldn't because I'd forget and consider it unimportant. Because it is unimportant. I grasp your complaints, I'm just not willing to comply to them in the way you desire and have even offered a compromise that meets your claimed criteria (except for SensFan claiming we've changed our opinion 12 times and used the other head as a reason - which is pants on head wtf. So really it's you, and AGM, and I think AGM is scum so I'm pretty meh on his desires).

I'm claiming you've made 12 (now 13!) posts in which one of the heads has had absolutely no input whatsoever. So since I see no reason to assume that your unfortunate hydra partner will agree with you on everything you've said (in fact, I would think that he would disagree quite strongly with most of what you've said), I'm going to act under the working assumption that once his opinions start being considered in the posts, there will be some inconsistencies. And since you've not consulted him before asking to be voted over a simple act of signing your name, it stands to reason that you won't consult him about countless important issues over the course of this game, and so there will be frequent posts in which differing opinions are offered.

Don't like this at all. Just because someone's playing as a hydra doesn't mean they must consult one another over every single post. This is just a bunch of confrontational fluff.

FoS: SensFan

For that matter,

FoS: Hydra

for even letting this conversation happen. Just sign your fucking posts and move on, no need to make your own arrogance the centerpoint of the game.

I would like it if players could share what they are looking for when they ask for threads for meta. I see it as a common and easy opportunity for active lurking.

This. I hate meta as it is

I don't feel like Meransiel was trying to 'squelch discussion' when the discussion that was happening was so fucking stupid as it is.

Sarcasm aside, Mafia is about knowing when to believe people and when not to.

No. It's not.

...Yes, it is.

I buy kondi's response, and agree with the townslip.

I think there's a fair chance one of DH/Parama are town. They appear to be fairly similar players, and as such, I don't really trust their reads of one another.

By the way, people, PBuG is strategic lurking (stalker is me).

Nice try, but no.

I don't understand the Hydra wagon.

[DemonHybrid]

Meransiel is 2nd on my scumlist for asking whether we have powers or not, ala kondi's accusation.

I'm still kind of iffy on Hydra. I'm doing an ISO of both after I eat.

[SensFan]

Don't like this at all. Just because someone's playing as a hydra doesn't mean they must consult one another over every single post. This is just a bunch of confrontational fluff.

FoS: SensFan

There's two options that are on the table. Either have every single post accounted for by one of the heads, or else have both heads be accountable for every single post. If the heads refuse to do the former, then they're going to get in trouble with the latter if one head is posting without consulting the other.

"A scumtell is a scumtell, they have the same role" is bullshit, by the way. Scumtells aren't points you accumulate for things in an individual post, it's things that take place over the body of work as a whole; if post X gives someone a pass for lurking while post Y wants to lead a lurker lynch on someone else, it would be useful to know for instance if the posts were made by the same head or different ones. Until each post is signed by one of the heads, I'm going to be assuming that every post made by Hydra accurately reflects the views of both heads at the time of posting.

[TBuG]

Scumtells aren't points you accumulate for things in an individual post, it's things that take place over the body of work as a whole; if post X gives someone a pass for lurking while post Y wants to lead a lurker lynch on someone else, it would be useful to know for instance if the posts were made by the same head or different ones.

Actually, they're both, but I do see your point.

[Shanba]

I see no particular reason to assume that one of DH/Thingy are scum. Like, that's classic outguessing the mod - and we dont even have anything else of the setup to speculate with yet, so it's doubly dumb.

I'm actually somewhat in agreement with kondi that meransiel is rolefishing. Considering the mistake kondi already made, it's not beyond possible that meransiel was looking for kondi to make another mistake. There's very little town reason, too, for the question meransiel asked.

If 1 or 2 of you are PR, you clearly can't be all town, so there's that. Plus, the scum will be forced to kill one of you, ridding us of a potential mislynch anyway. If you all claim vt then nothing really changes, amirite?

is definitively bullshit. 1 or 2 being power roles would not condemn the others to scumness, and telling the scum who out power roles are so they can kill them - not smart. Mafia 101.

Unvote Vote: meransiel

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

Not only has he been scummy, but if he flips scum, the 3 of us neighbors can rest easy knowing that we're near-confirmed town.

[Iecerint]

My boards are over now! Yay!

Will catch up and post soon.