NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[SpyreX]

FFFFFfff.

Tell me what I'm missing here.

[T-Bone]

Sigh guys.

Unvote

Vote: Empking

Have I got my point across yet? Yes we should lynch Empking. Those suggesting otherwise are more likely to be scum.

[SpyreX]

THANK YOU.

As long as the discussion ISNT about not lynching Empking we can take some time but I want this damn wagon firm and strong so there's no shenanigans.

[Hiraki]

FFFFFfff.

Tell me what I'm missing here.

Empking is pulling a really hard gambit here.

Not to mention, losing a plausible town PR isn't something I could decide for or against in two minutes.

Also, I don't believe that I found much of anything else wrong with Empking, while others did.

Ima keep my rebel(but correct) attitude.

Those suggesting otherwise are more likely to be scum.

since when did you form a totalitarian state.

[T-Bone]

Sorry, the point was not to not lynch Empking and if you got that impression I misspoke. The point was to continue to scumhunt.

[SpyreX]

Its not a function of Empking or any gambit.

Its risk-reward on the scum side.

I fully, FULLY, expect that if there is a Bookie he's Bookied. Regardless, he's scum.

[Hiraki]

I did get that impression.

Not sure how you could get your state of mind but w/e.

Just to clarify, since this just popped up, your other mason buddies are confirmed town, correct?

[T-Bone]

We were specifically told that we were town confirmed to each other.

[Hiraki]

Just checking, thanks.

[MrZepher]

Just checking, thanks.

I mean it's not like we have a list of the role PMs that went out or anything...

Oh wait.

[Hiraki]

/lazy

[Oversoul]

Its not a function of Empking or any gambit.

Its risk-reward on the scum side.

I fully, FULLY, expect that if there is a Bookie he's Bookied. Regardless, he's scum.

Are you advocating lynching Empking regardless of the 2 shot bonus that is likely placed on his head?

Or are you saying that since Empking is basically confirmed scum, the bookie is going to have Empking be booked the entire time, regardless of what day it will be? That was my initial fear, but that is remedied if we find the actual bookie.

Also, what would be the point in lynching Empking now? It would do absolutely nothing for town.

[Hiraki]

It would do absolutely nothing for town.

LARIATO

Unvote, Vote: Oversoul

[kanyeknowsbest]

spyrex if you really want this lynch to go through today i will go along with it but im just a little hesitant considering the likelihood of his being bookied.

also re talk of him pulling a gambit or forgeting: theres no way this is a gambit he is 100% confirmed scum.

p-edit: oversoul................

ugh im starting to think hiraki might not be scum

[Oversoul]

It would do absolutely nothing for town.

LARIATO

Unvote, Vote: Oversoul

Nice substance.

Here is what I think happened.

In the scum quick topic, they realized that Untrod and Empking were under pressure and likely to be lynched on Day 1. In order for town to miss the scum, they have Empking fakeclaim a vigilante ability, which in essence sets scum up to out the true Vigilante and using their nightkill on that person, or potentially setting up a bookie bonus kill the next night as well as killing a townie through the mislynch. From this I assume that Empking is a goon or other mafia role that is not vital. Hell, he might even be the bookie in which case we are fucked. The bookie would have placed the power on Empking preparing for the imminent, "why didn't you use your vig shot ... you're scum" which was going to happen once everyone realized there was only 1 kill last night securing an extra night kill and killing a confirmed scum. However, if the Mafia desperately needed the extra nightkill they would continuously put the power on Empking knowing that he would be lynched sooner or later.

If we search for the actual bookie, we can avoid the possibility of giving the Mafia a second nightkill. This plan is trumped only if the bookie uses his power on himself, which I fear, Empking may have done.

The enemy you know is better than the enemy you don't know.

Pedit: Am I really that nuts? :\ I'll shut up if you guys think my posts aren't conducive to scumhunting or helping the town.

[kanyeknowsbest]

are you claiming daytalk?

[Oversoul]

are you claiming daytalk?

I'm not claiming anything. Where did you get the idea? O_o

[kanyeknowsbest]

Here is what I think happened.

In the scum quick topic, they realized that Untrod and Empking were under pressure and likely to be lynched on Day 1.

In order for town to miss the scum, they have Empking fakeclaim a vigilante ability, which in essence sets scum up to out the true Vigilante and using their nightkill on that person, or potentially setting up a bookie bonus kill the next night as well as killing a townie through the mislynch. From this I assume that Empking is a goon or other mafia role that is not vital. Hell, he might even be the bookie in which case we are fucked. The bookie would have placed the power on Empking preparing for the imminent, "why didn't you use your vig shot ... you're scum" which was going to happen once everyone realized there was only 1 kill last night securing an extra night kill and killing a confirmed scum. However, if the Mafia desperately needed the extra nightkill they would continuously put the power on Empking knowing that he would be lynched sooner or later.

[Oversoul]

Oh, that does look bad. I was just saying that as the scenario though.

[Chair]

When I saw one kill, my first thought actually wasn't that empking would be bookied - it was the possibility that Empking was scum lolgambiting as a bookie (or with a bookie on his team) in an attempt to get someone else lynched to essentially clear himself by using the bookie kill to look like a vig. I'm probably just insane, but it's technically possible. Since there is a bookie possibility, we need to be somewhat careful with who we lynch today, and well the rest of the game. Still, lynching bookied scum > lynching non-bookied town. As for Empking being bookied if he's scum, I say we just give him another day. We could arbitrarily decide a day to lynch empking if he never successfully vigs. I'm willing to believe that Empking could have forgotten to send in an action, considering I've seen him do much worse as town...

The Ethos kill doesn't surprise me. I was frankly expecting them to die.

youre joking right? you honestly believe that empking just happened to "forget" his kill especially with his town confirmation depending on it? thats impossible. there are two possibilities: empking is town (not a vig) pulling some sort of gambit, or hes scum who thought his lynch was imminent and decided to guarantee his lynch the next day by fakeclaiming something he knew would get him lynched. further, it doesn't make any sense to me that scum would not have killed him last night if his claim had any chance of being true due to fear that he may have been fibbing about how many shots he had.

This is a false dichotomy. While I agree that Empking (if town) forgetting his kill is horrible, I was in a game where Empking claimed mason... as doctor... to attract the nightkill... because he thought he was a townie. He was eventually lynched. If he's forgotten his damn role before, I find it feasible that he would forget to submit a night action. Horrible if true, but feasible. As for scum not killing him, if he had confirmed himself, he would have became the same level of town-confirmedness as Ethos/T-bone/dram would eventually be - so the scum might as well have killed whichever of those four they thought was the biggest threat.

As for the point about ending the night early, it may bear some weight, but assuming that night ending early = no outstanding actions is in essence an attempt to outguess the mod. He said that the reason would be that he wasn't going to be here, so there's no reason that he wouldn't assume action not received yet = no action.

-implosion

[SpyreX]

spyrex if you really want this lynch to go through today i will go along with it but im just a little hesitant considering the likelihood of his being bookied.

also re talk of him pulling a gambit or forgeting: theres no way this is a gambit he is 100% confirmed scum.

p-edit: oversoul................

ugh im starting to think hiraki might not be scum

I absolutely want this lynch to go through.

Even if the mod for sure said there was a bookie I'd want this to go through.

We're not playing teaparty with scum. Scum found, scum dies. End of story.

[mastin2]

You are a Mafia #-shot Bookie!

Your teammates are (PLAYERNAMES). Each night, you may select a player. If that player is lynched the next day, you may perform an extra kill in addition to your factional the following night.

^Why do I get the impression Empking is scum waiting to guess correctly? >_<

Have read page 33, but I haven't finished my notes, nor am caught up. Will get back to you within a couple hours.

[kanyeknowsbest]

As for the point about ending the night early, it may bear some weight, but assuming that night ending early = no outstanding actions is in essence an attempt to outguess the mod. He said that the reason would be that he wasn't going to be here, so there's no reason that he wouldn't assume action not received yet = no action.

yes but when the mod says you have 72 hours to submit your night action, theres something very wrong when he arbitrarily cuts that time short before you have submitted your action. i do not believe that reck would do something like this.

@spyrex alright! im down.

unvote, vote: empking

[Chair]

Chair: getting defensive at spyrex being mad at hydras due to ethos, preemptively getting defensive about others flipping town implicating him, inconsistencies and what i feel to be fake attempts at scumhunting designed not to distract from other wagons.

#487 claiming dissent between the heads is an excellent way to call someone scum and not follow it up with a vote or more detailed argument.

#695 "SpyreX lynch is not necessary today." what does that mean. especially since in #708 you say that he is only null.

#754 his vote is on untrod tripod but he reads him as "null-leaning-scum." also in that same post he says empking is likely to be scum but then claims that empking is leaning town? he then says he would not be against the empking lynch. all in all, this post feels to me like he is just trying to put some reads out to cover himself and he is not actually interested in pushing any case. he wants to appear like he is scum hunting without having to commit to anything. i don't like it at all.

I was responding to this post as the game was locked.

First paragraph: I don't feel like I was being overdefensive about the hydra point - I was just responding to it. The "others flipping town implicating me" thing was me asking spyrex to clarify something - I wanted to know if he meant that we were just his third strongest scumread, or if there was a specific reason that ethos/para flipping town would cause him to have a scumread on us (i.e. a connection). As for "fake attempts at scumhunting," you calling them fake doesn't make them fake. You haven't explained how anything that we've said looks like "fake scumhunting" to you - and unless you do, your argument is invalid.

@487: how have I not detailed my argument on Spyrex? I explained it in-depth in 415... did you not read that post? did you just ignore it? As for not voting on the suspicion, why if I was scum would I even need to give myself an excuse to not vote spyrex? Why couldn't I, as scum, just vote him and say Misder agreed with me? Why is it a scum behavior to use that to justify not voting Spyrex when as scum I could just as easily have voted him?
@695: essentially, when I was saying that, it was because of Spyrex's playstyle. The way that Spyrex is playing, I feel, will make it easier to read him as the game goes on. His attempt to develop a voting block, for example, will mean more after more people in that voting block have flipped. I also want to see how his reads develop as the game goes on.
@754: Untrod was the scumread that Misder and I had the most agreement about. The list of "more likely scum" was just listing people that weren't in my town list, which is why I went through all of them to get better individual reads. As for "not committing to anything" - this is just a ridiculous accusation.

So My main scumreads would be kanye, untrod, zepher (but he hasn't posted yet so we'll see), and spyrex. I'm leaving our vote on untrod for now, since misder has a scumread on him and deadline is approaching and there's another vote on him.

I "commit" to scumreads in this line. Again, did you miss this line or ignore it? Also, why should town commit to reads in the first place? The game is constantly shifting with new information every day - why should anyone but scum commit completely to any particular read? Why is there more scum motivation to "not commit" to reads than there is town motivation?

[mastin2]

youre joking right? you honestly believe that empking just happened to "forget" his kill especially with his town confirmation depending on it? thats impossible. there are two possibilities: empking is town (not a vig) pulling some sort of gambit, or hes scum who thought his lynch was imminent and decided to guarantee his lynch the next day by fakeclaiming something he knew would get him lynched. further, it doesn't make any sense to me that scum would not have killed him last night if his claim had any chance of being true due to fear that he may have been fibbing about how many shots he had.

Vote: Kayne

.

Might change after I stop slacking off, but I'm a bit preoccupied at the moment.

I haven't read Kayne-Chair. But my gut is telling me it's not townVtown. My reads yesterday said it was scumVscum. I really need to finish things. My head's not in the game, yet, and I know for a fact that when I get my head into the game, I pwn scum.