Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Gut]

Vote: Fate

[Gut]

Hunch.

Unvote, vote: SpyreX

[Gut]

You know who else were just following orders? Nazis.

SpyreX had better be scum, Fate. This totally undermines my "woo bandwagonning" meta-policy otherwise.

[Gut]

You can't quickhammer Day 1 and then ask that question, silavor.

Vote: Tar

Invictus: silavor

[Gut]

We're not claiming who we're Invicting, DGb, we're voting on who to all Invict. It really is an extra lynch.

[Gut]

Zach feels off.

[Gut]

Be more vague please.

Some form of sensory input is telling me something about your alignment, weakly.

[Gut]

I'm not scummy; I'm concise.

[Gut]

I'd rather use the Invictuslynch on the easy decision.

[Gut]

You didn't think about Invicting during the Night, Ban?

[Gut]

I meant either. I thought about changing my Invictus target during Night 1 (well, I thought about thinking of changing and realised the odds of me dying were pretty negligible and my target wasn't half bad) and it certainly seems like a natural time to think of it to me. Given the short Night, coming up with an Invictus plan strikes me as a town tell if anything.

When did you come up with the plan, Fate?

[Gut]

They're different, Ban, but it's not to hard to segue from one to the other.

Pfft, Fate, you know it's not me.

[Gut]

Don't see it myself, but I don't mind sheeping Fate et al. here.

Unvote, vote: MoI

[Gut]

^scum

[Gut]

^scum

So Zachrulez is scum. I’d ask you why but you are scum so whatever answer you give me will be crap.

Thanks for helping me solidify my Zach as Town read.

It really shouldn't be that hard to figure out what my answer would be - hint: it'd consist of one word.

P.S. I totally bus as scum.

[Gut]

So scum challenged someone who had a TOWN read on them, in order to erode said townread.

Like I said zach, lol u

No you aren't getting it.

Scum Gut challenged my Town read on Zach to erode that read via "I totally bus as scum".

That's how you erode town reads!

[Gut]

Scum: Illuminati, Zach, MoI, silavor

[Gut]

The notion of fudged meta research is laughable.

[Gut]

Yarr. He claimed Cult in #809.75.

INVOKE META SHIELD:
<-- CES/chamber hydra

Vote: MoI

Invictus: Zach

P.S. I didn't follow the Invictusplan either.

[Gut]

I could've just claimed to be a gimmicky CES alt if I wanted to invoke the meta shield without revealing I was a hydra. I'm the posting head anyway. Not sure what the motive is for hiding it anyway if I were scum.

[Gut]

So, Gut, you could have been useful and insightful, and you chose NOT to?

What? No, I've played this game entirely seriously. I've been a bit lurkish because I actively need to remember to check this game instead of just going "view your posts" like I usually do.

[Gut]

Reluctance to out specific head names isn't a scum-tell at all because it's generally decesion made prior to game start however reluctance to out if you're a hydra or not has no pro-town motivation whatsoever but allows scum to avoid the "You're two heads therefore able to provide extensive reads" argument that has the potential to be brought up.

Haha, no. That kind of accusation is never going to be leveled against awesomely concise people like chamber and I.

It's 'No' because invoking a 'meta shield' isn't valid when the behavior Gut's slot is showing isn't a Meta Town tell.

CES plays very much like this as scum. So the slot doesn't suddenly stop being scummy because "hey, I'm CES".

It's a meta null tell whereas people have been treating it as a scum tell, so yes I do very much stop being scummy. Do you want to put some actual thought into this or are you just going to go "No, I'm not giving up on this mislynch."?

[Gut]

If it's meta null, that means it's null. This isn't hard.

Question for you, Duplicity: if you think I've been deliberately hiding my hydraness for some scummy reason, then why would I reveal it?

[Gut]

My question to Gut – is this the first time you’ve ever seen “woo bandwagon” result in a lynch? Because having an established “meta-policy” of doing it I find it hard to believe to believe you’ve never seen a bad quick-lynch happen before.

The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head that comes close is a D2 quicklynch perpetrated by aaaah400 (who was banned for cheating). I come from a slower era in that respect.

Tar vote out of the blue while Invictusing Silavor. Note no interaction with Tar or even suggestions that Tar ‘feels’ off.

Because the implication is incredibly obvious?

Sheeping Fate Day 1 supposedly undermined your “meta-policy” when Spyrex flipped Town.

Now suddenly Day 2 you are willing sheep him immediately again despite my name not having appeared anywhere in your ISO before this post (and having ostensibly ‘suspicion’ of Tarh, Zach and Silavor).

The Day 1 quicklynch was obviously unfortunate, but it was fairly unlikely to happen again. That's a silly reason not to vote you. You can't really think my playstyle would change overnight.

And yes, I voted for you over Tar (was I still suspicious of Tar at that point? not sure) and Zach because voting for Tar or Zach would be wasteful. I still maintain that Silavor made more sense as Invictuslynch; there was a broad consensus he should die; we could've agreed on him quickly and moved on to serious matters like lynching you - as is, Baby Spice got invicted on 6 votes.

This is in response to my questioning his ‘Zach is scum’ statements.

The “I bus as scum” is useless WIFOMing …

"I bus as scum." is me pointing out the laziness of your logic.

Also – what happened to Tar?

His Tar over Mafia speculation seemed genuine (also: self-centered).

The coming alive when under fire and trying to use a Meta-shield is just the cherry on top.

When people attack me for playing normally, hell yes, I invoke meta.

What's the town reasoning for revealing it?

See answer to previous quote.

Explain to me what you believe is the defining differences in your scum and town games

Defining difference? I guess it's that I try to play somewhat more conventionally as scum, a bit safer, e.g. in Oldy Mafia I pushed for Shanba in part because I felt it looked like Glrok was bussing him and I got flack for that; I don't see myself making that argument as scum very quickly - I'd just push Glrok first. Keeping my identity to myself is actually a pretty good example of what I wouldn't do as scum; even if it allows me to make this argument it still puts the spotlight on me, something I don't want if I'm scum.

[Gut]

Oh, it was obvious? It looks fairly possible to me of Scum buddy plopping down an soft vote on fairly safe partner (Silavor was going to catch flack, you Invictused him) and then moving off to an actual wagon as time went on.

So yeah, given you didn’t bother to do anything else (like, you know, actually question Tar) doesn’t look good, IMO.

I'm noting your inability to concede the point. It was obvious my vote indicated suspicion. Your complaint that I didn't indicate it explicitly is meritless. I lost interest in Tar. Really, my push against Tar was far too weak to have been a deliberate attempt at anything; it transparently doesn't work as distancing (for one, I probably would've said something along the lines of "I think Tar is scum" if that had been my goal).

1. Have a read on Zach as Town.
2. Scum-read Gut comes in and throws down “I think he’s scum” posts on Zach.
3. Town Read on Zach is strengthened.

I.e. no analysis, but simplistic "scum attack town" thinking.

Really? Because I’m not seeing Town CES (ala Return to Liten) at all. There you at least provided a minimum of reasoning as you posted votes. And provided insight as to ongoing events in the game.

Here it’s just “Its Gut” and fluff until today when you began fighting for your life.

You've called me useless before. Don't back down now. Fate and VitaminR should both be able to verify that I'm not playing weirdly.

P.S. I had a very similar activity surge in Liten when faced with a bandwagon. You can't spin this one as scummy.

[Gut]

Invictus: Illuminati

[Gut]

In Whoniverse mafia, we NK'd you, and you were scum. You hadn't had a vote all game. So you're quite likely to remain undetected scum. We can't keep you to end game. You need to die much sooner.

Remember that argument, DGb? I can't pull off that kind of scum game without my meta shield. I stand out too much.

[Gut]

CES, you claim to be the solo posting head of the hydra, does this mean that all of chambers thoughts and opinions are discussed elsewhere, if so I want him to come in here and make the next post elaborating on his reads. I want to have a conversation with Shift asap, his internet difficulties is proving to be incredibly frustrating.

When blarg and I decided to hydra, part of the plan was to really put up a united front. We have a clear division of labour and we really want this to feel like you guys aren't with chamber and I, but with Gut, so I'm going to say no to this request.

Oh fuck me... Hindu bodgy guarded quil... its so simple... I keep neglecting bodyguard stops invictus kills.

Why would Hindurage bodyguard quilford? Even no-actioning would've been a better move.

[Gut]

In Whoniverse mafia, we NK'd you, and you were scum. You hadn't had a vote all game. So you're quite likely to remain undetected scum. We can't keep you to end game. You need to die much sooner.

Remember that argument, DGb? I can't pull off that kind of scum game without my meta shield. I stand out too much.

Could you respond to this now?

Also, why are you discounting Fate's high ranking on the scumputer based on meta? You weren't willing to do the same for me in Oldy.

[Gut]

As CES, you're pretty minimalistic and opaque. But now you've created a hydra. Ans instead of talking more, you're talking less. You're even more minimalistic and opaque. Instead of being at your usual level of minimalism and opacity.

Why would I be talking more as a hydra? Frogito Ergo Sum was less active than I'd be throughout the game regardless of how much talking I was doing with Shanba.

[Gut]

lots of role speculation at first, I was convinced he was prepping the room for a FLYING PUMPKIN SHOOTING LAZERZ claim. Bodyguard. Bodyguard??? That's IT??????

It occurred to me that this is a pretty nice town tell. The set-up rules combined with Tar's Tar over Mafia speculation actually show Tar must have one of the standard roles off the list and I'd assume one of her scum buddies would bring that to her attention if she were scum. (Doesn't work if Tar's scum though, but I kinda think he's town currently.)

Notice the correlation to a realistic chance of lynch to him suddenly caring.

The prospect of getting mislynched should inspire activity in every townie.

[Gut]

Unvote, vote: Zachrulez

Primary Invictus: MoI
Secondary Invictus: Illuminati

[Gut]

Fate, Magna + Zach makes sense. Don't act silly.

DGb, you're just making the same mistakes as in Oldy. You can do better.

P.S. Tar is way too full of himself.

[Gut]

You are scum desperately trying to discredit my analysis.

This and overanalyzing my activity patterns.

[Gut]

I AM always scummy looking (heck, Lowell once considered voting for me over claimed scum). Thus me being scummy looking doesn't make me scummy and I shouldn't be hung. This is textbook stuff.

The way you're approaching me now isn't anything like the way you approached me in DW:

Because CES is playing like every direct iteration of CES I have ever seen. For me the test with him will be Day 2 to Day 3 (if I'm around then) looking at where he as voted and when in context of some flips.

Motivation either Town or Scum will be found there for him there.

CES is much like Fate to me - he actively has cultivated a playstyle I actively despise. But he's actively consistent with it. He's not going to change just by being effectively Policy Lynched. I'm doing the best I can with what I have.

You went after me not knowing it was me thinking I was a nice juicy mislynch and you refused to give up on it when the truth came out. Now you're just bullshitting to try and get the lynch through. This is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I chose to hide my identity for a while.

[Gut]

For the record note I didn't call you scum until after you participated in the horrible Spyrex Day 1 lynch and then made us some babble about how it "undermined" your Bandwagonning standard play that you back-tracked on later. I'm judging your slot on your votes and play.

That SpyreXvote is so par for the course for me it's not even funny. I don't get why you attach that much significance to the "undermine" comment; you can't really believe my playstyle was going to change overnight.

In fact I'd say you did that so you could have an 'out' if you got under pressure by sayikng "Hey, it's me CES don't lynch me for Meta".

Rather than just avoid the pressure in the first place? That sounds like smart scum play! Why would I willingly dance into the spotlight as scum, MoI?

CES in Return to Liten didn't only appear when his name was in the spotlight of a wagon.

Let me drag up a quote from you from that game. Note: MoI was scum that game.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him.

[Gut]

It shows you should know better if you're town.

It was D3 after the wagon on me had fallen apart if you must know.

[Gut]

just a heads up, my primary shift key (har har) is broken meaning i'm not going to bother capitalizing except for punctuation, symbols, and when i pull a fate with my KAPS LAWK. deal with it.

Real caps lockers use the shift key. That's the only way to get truly angry typing.

Only thing I can do:

Unvote, vote: Duplicity

Nautilius should get on.

[Gut]

ISOing Duplicity I personally find his invictusvoting pattern D2 fairly interesting.

Man, arguing for someone's lynch when you have them as null is awkward.

[Gut]

I don't see the problem, Gamma. It's distinctly easier to give town reads as scum than to give scum reads.

[Gut]

I would think the town read on Dance would be a scum tell considering the nightkill.

[Gut]

Vote: Zach

Invictus: Illuminati

(Gamma, ^that's who I think are scums. Town points please.)

Fine with mass claim. Would prefer popcorn.

[Gut]

Zach I'm iffier about because of things and stuff. (his ragepost plus his post expecting his death because of how the game was going)
It Would be super gratifying to know that I invictus'd scum n2 while most everyone else invictus'd baby spice but I'm infinitely more confident in illumi-scum.

Not everyone. I was totes invincting Zach too.

Massclaim and then Zach and/or Illuminati are going down.

[Gut]

Vanilla here.

[Gut]

It probably was genuine - apart from the "I was town" bit. Duplicity flipped with the invictus ability so it's pretty clear Amrun simply claimed her invictus targets truthfully. Illuminati never showed any suspicion of danceHello or Fate and both invicti are entirely consistent with Illuminati being scum.

Let's finish the mass claim first.

Unvote

Invictus: Zachrulez

[Gut]

RIMZZZZ