Newbie 1122 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Maruchan]

M'kay, Hi everyone, I spent a couple of hours yesterday reading most of your game. I thought this would be relatively similar to the previous mafia games I have played (all in online chat-based mafia websites), but Forum-based mafia I have learned seems a bit tougher.

I do like how you guys start in a day cycle by default. Means the town DOES have a mislynch right off the bat. Not saying it is always in town's best interest to use it, but it is helpful to know the first lynch that happens doesn't throw us into an auto-lose setup if they aren't mafia.

Greetings, Maruchan! I believe I've eaten some of your ramen.

I do believe I have the best Ramen. I avidly recommend the Cups o Noodles myself.

1) About how many games have you played on MafiaScum.net? About how many have you played elsewhere?
2) Which time zone are you in?
3) Cake or pie?
4) Are you scum? Why or why not?
5) Do you prefer scum or Town roles?

1. 0 on this site, this will be my first. Elsewhere, probably around 300-400. Chat-Based though, so a game only takes roughly 10 minutes if you're fast to 2 hours if you're slow as a turtle.
2. I am in Central Timezone, which as the IC earlier pointed out, is currently in Daylight time, so I am for now in GMT-5, although usually it would be -6.
3. Pumpkin Pie. Nothing beets Pumpkin Pie with Whip Cream. Of course, if Pumpkin isn't an option, I'll take a slice of cake any day.
4. I am total Scum. No I joke. What scum would answer this question truthfully though? Isn't that a punishable offense.
5. I have yet to play a game in forum-based so as such I do not have an opinion. In the Chat-Based site I use, I prefer Town, just because as long as you aren't in the site's "basic setup" (1 cop 1 doc, 2 regular maf, 3 vanillas), the town usually has an advantage.



Now that I have the pleasantries out of the way, I believe I will follow in Ellf's footsteps and VOTE: numberQ.

At first, reading through, I thought that zMuffinMan seemed rather scummy early on, then when he flipped the vote to the other player he was "arguing" with, I thought it seemed rather erratic. But I think that is just his Meta? as you guys call it. Meta here means your playstyle or something similar right? I think MuffinMan just has a confrontational, up "in-your-face" playstyle. Yes, he is still on my "to watch carefully" list, but I am less inclined to think without a doubt he is the scum. So if the goal of day 1 is to perform a lynch, rather than a no lynch, numberQ seems my likely suspect, after reading some of the debates for why people think he is scum.

However, I think it is personally in the greater interest of the town to perform a no lynch, due to someone will die tonight anyways, and it gives the cop a free report. He can investigate whoever he thinks is the scummiest, and then we might get a good kill. This is usually the strategy played in the other mafia site I visit, but like I said, Forum-based has different strategies and tells than chat-based. It is much harder for mafia to "blitz" in forum-based, due to the non-instant form of communications.


I think that about sums up what I wanted to say?

[Panacea]

Welcome, Maruchan!

Packbat: Lol.

Small: Okay, I have to know, are you one of these super-young scummers that make me feel old?

[smallpeoples343]

Errm... that depends. Probably.

[zMuffinMan]

Probably a good time to explain the setup.

There are 2 mafia, 5 townies, and 2 of the following:

doctor, cop, jailer, another townie.

with a 25% chance of each, that means there's only a 50% chance of any particular power role actually being in this game.

So you're 50/50 on there being a doc, 50/50 on there being a cop, 50/50 on there being a jailer.

no lynching to allow the cop to investigate makes no sense for a lot of reasons, but the most valid reason is that there may not even be a cop in this setup.

--

What about my play did you think was scummy? The confrontation or the erraticism or was there something else?

Is there any other reason for your vote than following in your predecessor's footsteps? Do you have an opinion on numberQ?

[Panacea]

Oh, hi! I should've checked for a new page, lol. Hmm... To vote Maru because of his 4)?

Yeah, I keep hearing meta means different things on other sites. Here meta (v) means the action of reading through a player's old games looking for playstyle similarities. It's like going from a general literature course to a class localized to one author. It does match his meta, in my opinion, yes. Though I don't trust meta, as a rule.

Hm... Lunch break is over, but I'll add more later.

[Oversoul]

Probably a good time to explain the setup.

There are 2 mafia, 5 townies, and 2 of the following:

doctor, cop, jailer, another townie.

with a 25% chance of each, that means there's only a 50% chance of any particular power role actually being in this game.

So you're 50/50 on there being a doc, 50/50 on there being a cop, 50/50 on there being a jailer.

no lynching to allow the cop to investigate makes no sense for a lot of reasons,

but the most valid reason is that there may not even be a cop in this setup.

--

What about my play did you think was scummy? The confrontation or the erraticism or was there something else?

Is there any other reason for your vote than following in your predecessor's footsteps? Do you have an opinion on numberQ?

Think about it, zMuffinMan.

Also, I find that his vote on NumberQ is very bad. It looks like an opportunity vote and his justification is weak.

Also, Oman and Packbat where are you guys?

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: I read earlier on that there was a feature that if someone posts while you are typing it'll show you the new post before you have to submit your post, for soem reason it didn't do that for me


Also, whoever mentioned the idea that the odds are one of the experienced players is a scum, I agree, there is a likely chance one of them is, not due to their experience, but because of the ratio of experienced players to how many scum roles there are.


(I started typing this about an hour ago but had to go sell my car real fast)

Think about it, zMuffinMan.

Also, I find that his vote on NumberQ is very bad. It looks like an opportunity vote and his justification is weak.

Also, Oman and Packbat where are you guys?

Oh you're right I see. then No Lynching is DEFINITELY bad because there is a 100% chance of a scum RoleCop, and only a 58% chance of a town Cop. so Lynching IS the smart option, thank you for correcting me.

Small: Okay, I have to know, are you one of these super-young scummers that make me feel old?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I feel like answering it anyways. Yes, I am. 17 years old here. X.X

--

What about my play did you think was scummy? The confrontation or the erraticism or was there something else?

Is there any other reason for your vote than following in your predecessor's footsteps? Do you have an opinion on numberQ?

I just found you're whole bearing towards accusations thrown against you a bit off from what I would personally expect. I found that you didn't change your vote at all from your RVS until around page 5 or 6 a bit off also, means you know something about the vote you are voting on, which if you were scum you'd know the best player in the game (hypothetically) is NOT on your team. See my reasoning? However, you did change your vote eventually, albeit it it was what in my mind I see as a form of OMGUSing, voting on the person who is confrontational with you. But like I said, the more I thought about it or read other players' arguments, I realized that might just be your personality. I know in the Chat-Based when I am a PR and its day two or three, I get really up in your face like that, and alot of people dislike me for it, even when I am the un-cced (not sure if you guys have this term, un-counter claimed) PR. But personality doesn't mean I totally erase you from my mind in all pictures of scummieness, after all, from my POV, you all are scum. 6 of you are just less scum .

----
In case anyone is wondering why I said 58% chance of cop rather than 50, there is a 25% chance 1 player gets cop (four roles to chose from) leaving one person with THREE roles in the "role bin", for a 33% chance of each. So, unless there can be two cops or two docs or two jailers, there is a 58% chance of any given role in that setup being in play. if there CAN be two, then there is a 50% chance there will be at least 1 of any given role.

_{Fixed Tags
~Robo}

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: i fucked up my post tags /facedesk

[Maruchan]

EBWOP again: god I can;t believed I missed this! To answer MuffinMan asking why I was keeping my vote where I was, rather than just following in the footsteps, I rather agreed with the arguments for scum on numberQ back on pages 2-3. I don't think I saw any counter-arguments against his scum other than the "Scum or PR", which by saying this, means scum might target him tonight anyways, so he dies anyways, in which case, I would rather lynch a 50/50 scum/PR so that I get the 50% chance of the scum dying rather than the 0% chance of scum 100% chance of PR dying.

[Packbat]

zMuffinMan is correct, Maruchan - we might not have a cop, and even if we do there's only a 1/3 chance we have a doctor to protect him. The general strategy of Follow the Cop applies in a

few

situations, but we can usually do better by following our eyes.

Preview Edit: Apparently the post-thing is working for me...

Also, Oman and Packbat where are you guys?

Wondering where smallpeoples343 and Oman were, actually.

EBWOP: i fucked up my post tags /facedesk

You have to have double-quotes around the usernames in the quote= tags.

In case anyone is wondering why I said 58% chance of cop rather than 50, there is a 25% chance 1 player gets cop (four roles to chose from) leaving one person with THREE roles in the "role bin", for a 33% chance of each. So, unless there can be two cops or two docs or two jailers, there is a 58% chance of any given role in that setup being in play. if there CAN be two, then there is a 50% chance there will be at least 1 of any given role.

There are six possible combinations of town roles:

1. One cop, one doc.
   
2. One cop, one jailer.
   
3. One cop, one VT.
   
4. One doc, one jailer.
   
5. One doc, one VT.
   
6. One jailer, one VT.

Three of the six contain a cop; hence, 50%.

EBWOP again: god I can;t believed I missed this! To answer MuffinMan asking why I was keeping my vote where I was, rather than just following in the footsteps, I rather agreed with the arguments for scum on numberQ back on pages 2-3. I don't think I saw any counter-arguments against his scum other than the "Scum or PR", which by saying this, means scum might target him tonight anyways, so he dies anyways, in which case, I would rather lynch a 50/50 scum/PR so that I get the 50% chance of the scum dying rather than the 0% chance of scum 100% chance of PR dying.

Actually, there is a third way: when someone is ready to lynch numberQ, we ask him to roleclaim rather than immediately lynch. If he claims a role that someone else in the game has, that person can announce their role and we can lynch him for lying; otherwise, we can decide whether or not we believe him based on his play thus far.

[Packbat]

Incidentally, pop quiz: what tell did I demonstrate in my last post?

Regarding numberQ, I still think he's scummy for roughly the same reasons, and I've not seen anything from another slot that compares. That said, I'm beginning to wonder about the people reiterating suspicions of zMuffinMan - it would not surprise me that scum would want to try to keep that option open.

[Maruchan]

That said, I'm beginning to wonder about the people reiterating suspicions of zMuffinMan - it would not surprise me that scum would want to try to keep that option open.

Does my post con't as reiteration, or uhm (what would you call reiteration without the "re"?)?

[zMuffinMan]

which if you were scum you'd know the best player in the game (hypothetically) is NOT on your team. See my reasoning?

No.

Why couldn't I have voted Packbat early if he is my scum partner?

In the first place, why does this mean I know something about Packbat? Wouldn't it make more sense to assume the opposite?

I don't think I saw any counter-arguments against his scum other than the "Scum or PR", which by saying this, means scum might target him tonight anyways, so he dies anyways, in which case, I would rather lynch a 50/50 scum/PR so that I get the 50% chance of the scum dying rather than the 0% chance of scum 100% chance of PR dying.

So you'd rather lynch a player who has a chance of being a PR then let scum try to NK them?

What about the arguments on p2/3 did you agree with and why?

[Oversoul]

Incidentally, pop quiz: what tell did I demonstrate in my last post?

Regarding numberQ, I still think he's scummy for roughly the same reasons, and I've not seen anything from another slot that compares. That said, I'm beginning to wonder about the people reiterating suspicions of zMuffinMan - it would not surprise me that scum would want to try to keep that option open.

A town tell? O_o

Hold on in a marathon game. will reply to this in full later, although I feel like you are hinting at Maruchan and I.

[Panacea]

Wait. Maru, aren't you voting Number and advocating a no-lynch at the same time?

[Packbat]

Incidentally, pop quiz: what tell did I demonstrate in my last post?

Regarding numberQ, I still think he's scummy for roughly the same reasons, and I've not seen anything from another slot that compares. That said, I'm beginning to wonder about the people reiterating suspicions of zMuffinMan - it would not surprise me that scum would want to try to keep that option open.

A town tell? O_o

Hold on in a marathon game. will reply to this in full later, although I feel like you are hinting at Maruchan and I.

I am - although it was really Maruchan's post which attracted my attention in the first place. His attitude toward zMuffinMan seemed inconsistent on casual reading.

[Packbat]

EBWOP: Not a town-tell - that post was

actually

IIoA.

[Maruchan]

Wait. Maru, aren't you voting Number and advocating a no-lynch at the same time?

I was, but I changed my mind when I realized the setup. I still had in my mind a guaranteed cop.

Someone pointed out which I forgot, there is a random of the four possibilities, so we might not have a cop. in which Case I'd rather not NL.

No.

Why couldn't I have voted Packbat early if he is my scum partner?

In the first place, why does this mean I know something about Packbat? Wouldn't it make more sense to assume the opposite?

It would, if you hadn't defended why you were voting him. and kept wanting to vote him for 4 consecutive pages when he was supposed to be just a RVS vote. Thats why I said when you changed your vote, you're scummieness died just a little in my eyes, except you're new vote is what I consider a form of OMGUS.

So you'd rather lynch a player who has a chance of being a PR then let scum try to NK them?

What about the arguments on p2/3 did you agree with and why?

1.) I didn't even consider the scum NKing to lull the town into being complacent thinking there was a doc. that is a viable strategy, I just hadn't thought of it. In which case you are right it does make sense to not want to vote of the person we think is 50/50 PR/Scum
2.) I agreed at the fact that he tried to justify his first vote while calling it an RVS and OMGUSing it all at the same time seemed rather scummy. Along with the arguments on page 4 or 5 someone said along the lines of accusing you of trying to mentor him into voting by asking why he had no vote? Which goes along with my reasoning that you seem slightly scummy to me.

for now, UNVOTE: numberQ but this is just more to not have to defend vote rather than because I don't truly think he is scummy, I have no guaranteed plan of action as of this point, but my current leads are Muffin and numberQ.

--
HEY, this time the post while you were typing thing worked. sweeet.

I am - although it was really Maruchan's post which attracted my attention in the first place. His attitude toward zMuffinMan seemed inconsistent on casual reading.

Anything in particular to point out, so I can see what I said that made you notice me? Just a general "help me get better" thing, or so I can explaign my reasoning.

--
TAKE 3:

EBWOP: Not a town-tell - that post was actually IIoA.

I refrained from answering because I wasn't picking up any tells from it. now I understand why I wasn't picking up tells. IoA and IIoA are something you don't tend to have to deal with in chat-based. Although now that I have learned of them, I will be looking more for it in my chat-based games.

[Oversoul]

Maruchan, it is generally better to lynch someone rather than a no lynch as you are effectively taking away a town's "kill" and giving a free one to the scum. Basically you would be starting off the game as if it was night instead of day, something that I am pretty sure you said you didn't like from your chat based games. That seems contradictory.

I see what IIoA is now. Although, this is the only game that I have ever seen someone actually bring that up. O_o

And based off what zMuffin said, wouldn't IIoA be a scum tell? Since you aren't actively looking for scum?

I am beginning to doubt the NumberQ scum and feeling more like Maruchan scum. Your unvote seems like an attempt to backpedal and step out of the spotlight so you don't feel pressured. It doesn't feel like a town thing to do, especially given how many games you've played on your chat based Mafia site.

[Maruchan]

Maruchan, it is generally better to lynch someone rather than a no lynch as you are effectively taking away a town's "kill" and giving a free one to the scum. Basically you would be starting off the game as if it was night instead of day, something that I am pretty sure you said you didn't like from your chat based games. That seems contradictory.

I see what IIoA is now. Although, this is the only game that I have ever seen someone actually bring that up. O_o

And based off what zMuffin said, wouldn't IIoA be a scum tell? Since you aren't actively looking for scum?

I am beginning to doubt the NumberQ scum and feeling more like Maruchan scum. Your unvote seems like an attempt to backpedal and step out of the spotlight so you don't feel pressured. It doesn't feel like a town thing to do, especially given how many games you've played on your chat based Mafia site.

Please do not use my experience to think I am good.

Quick run down of a chat-based game:

cop: cop here guilty
maf NO IM COP GUILTY ON HIM NOT MY PARTNER
third random townie kid: NO IM THE REAL COP
-commence lynching real cop-
third townie kid: oshit i retract
-commence lynching third random townie kid-
-town loses-
THE END

This is much more in depth than a chat-based game by far.
Also, I am not backpedaling I still suspect muffinman and numberq, and am watching them the hardest, but I just removed my numberq vote because muffinman DID point out that lynching the kid if we think he is either scum or PR is a bad idea. I was originally telling myself it is a good idea, because I did not realize his strategy of maf NK to "prove there is a doc".

Therefore on the chance numberq really is a PR, lynching him is no longer a safe bet in my mind, originally I thought it was, due to the chance of scum. Get what I mean?

[zMuffinMan]

IIoA isn't a scum tell, but it is a nice way to look like you're contributing when you aren't really contributing.

Like this post, for example. Man I'm good at contributing.

[Maruchan]

IIoA isn't a scum tell, but it is a nice way to look like you're contributing when you aren't really contributing.

Like this post, for example. Man I'm good at contributing.

Yakno, I think I might just like you. even if you're scum, your playstyle is cohesive to mine.

[ValiliaRei]

@zMuffinMan

Just to make sure, I went back and reread the wiki on WIFOM. Your question "Is it something that I'd only do as scum?" is like a variation of the example question on the wiki page: "But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

Are you the sort of person who would only do this as town? Even if I check your meta, you could be playing against it this game, since people know your meta. Or you could be playing right along with it, making people think that you might be playing against it, but you might not be. There's no way I can know for sure, so I have to make a judgement call and decide whether I thought it was scummy or not.

If I do have it totally wrong, then somebody please help explain it to me.

@numberQ

I'm not sure how I was being circular, and I don't understand your reasoning behind it. Would you explain again for me?

Putting together another post that will come later tonight.

[Robocopter87]

To Quote

Code: Select all

[quote="Player Name Here"] What they said goes here. [/quote]

Which would appear as,

What they said goes here.

Don't forget the quotation marks around the player name.

Remember, the preview button is your friend. You should preview your post for mistakes before posting. Due to the fact you cannot edit.

Hope this helps,
~Robo

[Maruchan]

To Quote

Code: Select all

[quote="Player Name Here"] What they said goes here. [/quote]

Which would appear as,

What they said goes here.

Don't forget the quotation marks around the player name.

Remember, the preview button is your friend. You should preview your post for mistakes before posting. Due to the fact you cannot edit.

Hope this helps,
~Robo

thanks for the help. Every time I type the quote tags, every site is different, some require the " some is ' some nothing, so I always screw up the first time I try typing them by hand.