Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Ban]

*shrug* I pointed out that what Fate said was similar to what I had said previously. Feels like you're looking for a reason to vote me.

First of all, it was Ban and, clearly, what I meant was that I got the feeling he wanted to vote me and just needed to make up a reason for it (either because his vote is insincere or because he has some sort of gut read he wants to justify).

Quite the opposite. I didn't want to put forth a lot of effort in my vote just to have it swallowed up when other wagons start taking precedent. I think my comment represented my overall assessment of you while keeping it dumbed down enough I didn't have to get caught up in kicking a dead horse... If you'll pardon the disturbing imagery.

the fact is your Iso is pretty much a straight up fish in a barrel tell hunt, I wouldn't know where to start. You shrug Sila off as town to distance yourself from his inevitable wagon and possible lynch, be that a sign he himself is town I wouldn't venture to guess yet But to completely dismiss him and never talk about him again, barring in mind he is one of the top two wagons today and the second in line for invictus it screams scum to me either way. You call Fate's invictus idea 'obviously great' without any rhyme or reason on your end, I think I've made my feelings on that matter clear. And of course you take the time to look up and link games from MOI's past, admitting to taking the time to 'read up on him' yourself, and implying you came to conclusions from this meta. Now I'm no expert on meta in general but I do believe it requires you to take certain posts and playstyles from game A and compare them to certain posts and playstyles from game B, then present your finding to the town as a whole. instead, you take the time to do all this and then choose to chime in with a /agree to someone you've already labeled obv. town. It's bullshit, plain and simple.

One comment that what Fate said was similar to what I said previously (which was just true, and unless I can read minds, hardly a planned thing) is by no means "cronyism." It was hardly significant enough to change anyone's mind about anyone.

Where did you ever say anything regarding MOI's meta? The only thing you mentioned about MOI that Fate had mentioned was the part about him saying "I caught all this scum blah blah" which had nothing to do with MOI's actual meta when you said it. You claimed it looked "forced", not different from other games.

I've also noticed certain things between you and Fate. You both say MOI is pulling "shtick", which is a common enough word but I don't like the coincidence between two people attacking the same person for similar things using the same phrasing. It is an irrelevant detail that proves nothing I know, but it certainly makes me feel this attack on MOI is constructed and both of you are reading from the same script if you catch my drift.

As you can see my vote on you wasn't exactly an out of the blue gut read, however as much as I would like to I have to put you in the same category as Fate and hold off on you until tomorrow...

[Baby Spice]

The last time I saw this exact arguement, it was also based on a rapid lols lynch, was made by scum, and there was no scum off of that particular wagon.

Link to this please. I’d like to see the what sort of game and when in the game it happened.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17354

[Vi]

Vote Count Vi:

A vote count for the mod
MagnaofIllusion (L-3) ~ Fate, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, silavor, danceHello, Gut,

Zachrulez

silavor (L-3) ~ Duplicity, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, Ban, Gammagooey, Baby Spice
Zachrulez (L-8) ~ Nautilius
The Illuminati (L-8) ~ DrippingGoofball
Gut (L-8) ~ Zachrulez

Fate (L-9) ~

Baby Spice

Baby Spice (L-8) ~

DrippingGoofball

(Minimum L-9)

Not Voting:

The Illuminati

--Deadline is Tuesday, July 12 at 2100 EST. ((expired on 2011-07-12 21:00:00))

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's odd to me that you're twisting my words in such an obvious fashion. First of all, it was Ban and, clearly, what I meant was that I got the feeling he wanted to vote me and just needed to make up a reason for it (either because his vote is insincere or because he has some sort of gut read he wants to justify). One comment that what Fate said was similar to what I said previously (which was just true, and unless I can read minds, hardly a planned thing) is by no means "cronyism." It was hardly significant enough to change anyone's mind about anyone.

There are a number of elements in this response or about the post in itself that I want to address.

1. If find it very unusual that you specifically cropped my response to only the part where I mistakingly attribute to Benmage instead of Ban yet you address elements that you specifically cropped out in your post. Why would you do so? Here’s my full response for anyone interested.

You think it feels like Benmage is looking at your play to find reasons you are scummy? Isn’t that what Mafia is all about?

His point here is a very strong one – Fate-Town is very susceptible to buddying / cronyism. So you sidling up beside him with ‘similar’ reads is quite possibly scum doing just that.

2. Number one is of note to me because you specifically choose to use only ‘Cronyism’ when I said ‘Cronyism or Buddying’. I find that scummy because you cropped away my response and specifically chose the element that implies you are both Town (Cronyism, which inherently infers players of the same alignment) and avoided directly mentioning the other, Buddying (which implies scum attempting to link themselves to Town for various reasons). That’s suspect when you crop away the full response.

3. You try to out of hand dismiss that it’s a valid tell when it is a strong one in my book. I went back and looked at the sequence of events in the thread to look at you and Fate’s posts regarding Meta.

danceHello inHim is the first to make any sort of Meta comment – his post at

323

specifies my posting is different than [REDACTED]

Tar is next to say something about meta (loosely) in his “aha, I know what MoI scum is like despite never having apparently seen it and just assuming” in

330

.

Fate votes me at

336

because others are willing to. No mention of meta yet.

I can dig a Magna wagon. So much wrong with his last few posts. The whole "none of you know what you're doing but I've caught all the scum for you"-shtick feels incredibly forced. Unvote, Vote: MoI

Here’s your vote. No mention of meta just that some rhetoric (‘it feels wrong’ and 'incredibly forced') basically sheeping Fate.

Duplicity asks for Meta on me at

345

.

Duplicity, here's some games I thought would be roughly comparable that I used to check Magna's meta, having not really played with him before: American Gods, Storms of Swords, Stars Aligned III, MetaMafia.

Here’s where you point out some games of mine for Duplicity. I find this suspect for several reasons.

A. Not a mention about how those games show I am scummy via meta … just here’s some games that you think are similar. No reasons why Meta supports me as scum. This isn't giving any opinion, just doing Duplicity's legwork in a suspect manner.

B. Let’s examine those games – two where I was scum, one where I chose an effective SK route, and one where I was Town. How did you come across those games?

You skipped over my most recently completed Large Theme (Jason’s Superhero Mafia) where I was Town Cop. You also skip over Nik’s Call of Cthulufish and AGM’s Choose Your Side to chronologically find American Gods Mafia. You skip ReaperCharlie’s completely fucked up Metropolis Large Game to get to Storm of Swords and Square Enix 4, Cyclical Experiment, and Blackest Night to get to Stars Aligned 3.

Clearly you aren’t using my wiki (especially since I apparently skipped MetaMafia there somehow whut?) because you skipped over a number of more recent games to drege up Stars Aligned.

I’m very curious why you chose the games you did.

Back to the post rundown ...

Fate posts the first of his highly out-of-context posts ‘analyzing’ my meta at

363.

You immediately hop in and say “That’s what I thought too” at

364.

Again, no actual attempt at analysis from you. Just more agreement with Fate.

End Analysis of Timing

– In both cases you ‘followed’ close on Fate’s heels. When he voted for me saying “I LOVE TO WAGON MOI” you follow closely saying “I can dig it” with some rhetoric. You provide some odd meta links but give no analysis. Fate suddenly give some (awful) analysis and you immediately jump in saying “I agree”. You very much did follow right after his footsteps in a ‘Me Too’ fashion. Scumtastic.

[Ban]

Case, point, match... Cash the fucking check!

[Fate]

Just because scum makes a well formatted postdoesnt mean you should fall head over heels Ban.

These duo wagons are sexy for analysis.

We need them both dead.

Silavor invicted, MoI lynched.

[Benmage]

Word on the wagon analysis .... make up for yesterday.

[Nautilius]

Check in, I'll have time tomorrow.

[Nautilius]

(Elli btw...still haven't been able to discuss anything with Nach since he's nooot around)

[Gammagooey]

Sooooo nothing's happening. Town read time?

townz: Ban, Ben
Likely townz: DGB, Duplicity
Weak town reads: Baby Spice, Gut, Naut, danceHello
lol,fate: Fate

Everyone else can eventually die in glorious fireballs.

[danceHello]

FUUUUUUUUUUUCK

-inHim

-------------------------------------

Grah. Ok, we've both been away for the last 36 hours it seems.

-inHim

[Tarhalindur]

See sig. I'll do my best to post at least once a day, though.

[The Illuminati]

Vote Count III:

Evidently Fate's tits are hot
silavor (L-3) ~ Fate, Quilford, Duplicity, Benmage, Tarhalindur, Nautilius
Gut (L-7) ~ DrippingGoofball, Zachrulez
Tarhalindur (L-7) ~ Gut, VitaminR
Duplicity (L-7) ~ danceHello, Ban
Quilford (L-8) ~ silavor,

Tarhalindur

Fate (L-8) ~ Baby Spice

(Minimum L-9)

Not Voting:

Baby Spice, Ban,

MagnaofIllusion,

Nautilius,

The Illuminati

--Deadline is Tuesday, July 12 at 2100 EST. ((expired on 2011-07-12 21:00:00))

---Is it just me or has the amount of innuendo on this site spiked recently?

This is the votecount right before silavor's wagon crashed. Fate, Quilford, Duplicity, Benmage, Tar, Nautilius are on it.

Vote Count Vi:

A vote count for the mod
MagnaofIllusion (L-3) ~ Fate, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, silavor, danceHello, Gut,

Zachrulez

silavor (L-3) ~ Duplicity, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, Ban, Gammagooey, Baby Spice
Zachrulez (L-8) ~ Nautilius
The Illuminati (L-8) ~ DrippingGoofball
Gut (L-8) ~ Zachrulez

Fate (L-9) ~

Baby Spice

Baby Spice (L-8) ~

DrippingGoofball

(Minimum L-9)

Not Voting:

The Illuminati

--Deadline is Tuesday, July 12 at 2100 EST. ((expired on 2011-07-12 21:00:00))

People still on it. Duplicity, Benmage. Now Ban, Gamma and Baby Spice are on it.

Vote Count II:

"Welcome to mafiascum! We kill people for fun!"

SpyreX (LYNCH) ~ Nautilius, Zachrulez, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, Ban, danceHello, Gut, DrippingGoofball, Fate, silavor

Gut (L-7) ~ SpyreX, Kublai Khan, Duplicity
Kublai Khan (L-8) ~

DrippingGoofball,

Quilford, Hinduragi
Fate (L-8) ~ Benmage, MagnaofIllusion
Tarhalindur (L-9) ~ Baby Spice

Nautilius (L-10) ~

Fate

DrippingGoofball (L-10) ~

silavor

(Minimum L-10)

Not Voting:

Duplicity, Fate, Kublai Khan,

The Illuminati

BS 0 | Ban 0 | Ben 0 | Goofy 0 | Dup 1 | Fate 1 | Gut 0 | Hindu 0 | dH 0 | KK 0 | Moai 0 | Naut 0 | Quil 0 | sila 0 | SpyreX 0 | Tar 0 | Illu 1 | VitR 0 | Zach 0

--Deadline is Sunday, July 10 at 2100 EST. ((expired on 2011-07-10 21:00:00))

----

--- SpyreX ---

Town

--- Pierced by EYE LASERS from a polar bear D1.

SpyreX possessed the following abilities:
*

Invictus

Night 1 will end at about this time tomorrow. (9:00 EST, or

(expired on 2011-07-05 09:00:00)

)
This might be delayed a bit depending on whether The Illuminati confirms and/or how quickly I can get a replacement.

Matching people: Tar (first wagon), Ban (second wagon), Fate (first wagon)

Ban:

Please sum your silavor case up to me.

For the record, I'm not calling silavor town nor scum. I'm just saying that the hammer means absolutely nothing.

For those that wanted me to state what I read and understand:

-I understand that the Spyre lynch was a complete RVS lynch, with notable exception of the last few votes. When I get some sleep and come back from work, I'll sort those votes out. Especially Ban's.
-Fate tried to get a secondary invictus lynch. This doesn't work; from what I understand, you can PM Vi with your invictus target, correct?
-People strongly reacted to silavor's hammer. He states his complete innocence. I do NOT fully understand the MoI wagon;

Fate

, please sum that up for me with post evidence.

Finally, DGB. She states that Fate, silavor AND MoI are all town reads and that my "strategic lurking" is the scummiest thing she's seen so far despite a quick lynch, a quick wagon and a wagon switch.

She's had 57 posts.

Those that mention Fate: 11 or so. She never explains her Fate read.
Those that mention MoI: 2. She never explains her MoI read.
Those that mention silavor: 6.

I'm assuming this is because she finds the wagon bad?

DGB:

1. Please explain your Fate read.
2. Please explain your MoI read.
3. What else in this game do you find scummy other than my very few posts and my "strategic lurking"? Back this up with evidence.
4. Assuming that the above orange underlined is correct, why can't silavor be scum with scum bussing him? Do you believe that only scum quick-wagon people who are town only? If it's not, please confirm that it isn't correct so I can mark it down. Thanks.

-DH

[The Illuminati]

I'm assuming that the orange underlined is correct because you voted Gut for putting his Invictus on silavor. That leads only to that conclusion.

-DH

[danceHello]

I promise to have that post explaining my scumreads up sometime tomorrow, been a bit distracted and need to catch up on the past several pages.

- PBuG

[Gammagooey]

hammer meaning nothing whaaat.
Of course it means something. He did it as a result of the choices given to him from the rest of the game and him thinking it would be beneficial or at least not particularly harmful to his alignment, whatever it may be. I'll be happy to argue with you if you think it's more likely to come from town than scum but don't tell me it means NOTHING.

Also read my post about sila. You don't have to go through all the links to his previous games but just skim through one of them. You'll see what I mean by not seeing the quickhammer and his play in general from sila-town.

[danceHello]

Dance, I have a tendancy to use larger words than needed in my posts and it becomes much more incoherent in the early hours of the morning so my apologies but in future I'll try to be much more concise. If I may ask what means of communication are you two attempting to use to discuss read differences because your disagreement in thread reads strongly as if you haven't stopped to have a conversation on MSN or in QT.

We're talking in QT, and we don't have differences in reads, I simply didn't like having our vote on you anymore and didn't want to wait for inHim's permission to take it off. loldealwithit.

- PBuG
P.S. *tendency

[Gammagooey]

hey dance while you're here give me oooone read that you think other people will disagree with or has what you think is odd personal reasoning for or is otherwise interesting in some way.

[The Illuminati]

hammer meaning nothing whaaat.
Of course it means something. He did it as a result of the choices given to him from the rest of the game and him thinking it would be beneficial or at least not particularly harmful to his alignment, whatever it may be. I'll be happy to argue with you if you think it's more likely to come from town than scum but don't tell me it means NOTHING.

Also read my post about sila. You don't have to go through all the links to his previous games but just skim through one of them. You'll see what I mean by not seeing the quickhammer and his play in general from sila-town.

Well, alright, I didn't mean it means NOTHING; of course it means something. As far as alignment-telling goes, it means nothing. Sorry for the confusion.

I'll go check the post you're talking about tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

As far as alignment-telling goes, it means nothing.

>:[
That's what I was talking about. Although I guess you as an individual could think that sila might do it as town or scum so whatever.
(he totally wouldn't as town though)

[Gammagooey]

I'm totally kicking danceHello off my town list until they come back and answer my question.
Until then they can slowly fall towards the LAKE OF FIRE.

[DrippingGoofball]

Finally, DGB. She states that Fate, silavor AND MoI are all town reads and that my "strategic lurking" is the scummiest thing she's seen so far despite a quick lynch, a quick wagon and a wagon switch.

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

For the love of everything that is OMGUS. You're just upset with me because I voted you right off the bat, and I CAUGHT YOU FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

I never said that it was "the scummiest thing [I've] seen so far."

Because I switched my vote to you, you think you can lie and put words in my mouth?

You're so scum.

Gawd I can't believe I'm discussing with scum, but MoI bleeds town since he came within an inch of his life, I cannot for the life of me EXPLAIN A FATE TOWN READ, Fate-town-reads are mysteries.

3. What else in this game do you find scummy other than my very few posts and my "strategic lurking"? Back this up with evidence.

You just made another scum post, just now. You think "strategic lurking" and a small collection of scummy posts isn't enough? Classic "caught-for-the-wrong-reasons." I'm sorry you played a perfect lurkgame and I caught you with krap reasoning.

why can't silavor be scum with scum bussing him?

Well duh, he could be scum OR town, there might be the same number of scumbags on his wagon.

Do you believe that only scum quick-wagon people who are town only? If it's not, please confirm that it isn't correct so I can mark it down. Thanks.

Pffffffffffffffffffffffft

For YEARS, YEARS and YEARS, I've been insisting that it doesn't matter if the wagon is on town or scum, there's still the same number of scum on the wagon.

SPEAKING OF THE SCUMPUTER

It's really rich of Illuminati to bring up wagon-analysis, coming from a player who was absent from the game for the first 3-4 wagons.

I can't believe he has the nerve to bring up wagon analysis when he was using the "account-non-activated" excuse to lurk for a huge chunk of the game, and now he's conveniently OFF any wagon himself.

[Ban]

Matching people: Tar (first wagon), Ban (second wagon), Fate (first wagon)

So Naut gets a pass then? Seems kinda unfair, where can I get his lawyer?

Ban: Please sum your silavor case up to me.

Sorry mate, wouldn't say I have one. I will say that I normally do see a hammer like that as irrelevant with lack of any other supporting factors, i.e. a fairly decent case without the hammer, but in this case he didn't even post until Spy was at L-1(technically). If he had 5 or 6 posts during the buildup of the Spy wagon to his name then the hammer wouldn't look like scum scrambling to jump on the wagon before it leaves the station. Add in the fact he's just another worthless vote that's given to Fate (and Naut) to play with and I am under the impression he needs to die. Personally I want him to be the group invictus target though. Multiple reasons on that front but needless to say I don't feel you need to know those unless it actually happens.

As a consolation prize I would be happy to sum up my Fate, Brief, and Vitamin cases for you....

[silavor]

For the record, I never blamed Fate for me hammering Spyre. This is Fate. These are the Fates. Totally different beings. Apparently you all can comprehend Nazi jokes, but not Greek mythology jokes. For shame

Also, thinking that loversmafiaSila wouldn't have quickhammered is lulzy and terribad thinking. What can I say, I'm a totally different person in large games.

Gamma, if MoI is

suddenly so cleared

in your eyes because he gave up at L-1 (lolFUCKINGwut? Scum give up all the time too...) why is he not in your list of town reads?

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey Ban

SPEAKING OF THE SCUMPUTER

It's really rich of Illuminati to bring up wagon-analysis, coming from a player who was absent from the game for the first 3-4 wagons.

I can't believe he has the nerve to bring up wagon analysis when he was using the "account-non-activated" excuse to lurk for a huge chunk of the game, and now he's conveniently OFF any wagon himself.

Be a sweetheart and comment on the above.

Thanks.