The StarCraft II thread

[Moratorium]

NASL finals looks like high school production

[Moratorium]

That's something I need to figure out - how do you set tab to cycle between control units?

Tab is set by default to cycle between subgroups, meaning if you have a control group that contains more than one kind of unit, you tab to go through the various units of the group (useful for spellcasters). You can find that under the Global hotkeys, under "Unit Management".

What you sound like you are describing is whether there's a "Go to Next Control Group" command that you can set.. and I don't believe such a thing exists.

[Moratorium]

and have tab set to cycle hatches.

Where as this is done by binding tab to "Base Camera", under the Camera hotkeys in Global.

[Nocmen]

NASL finals looks like high school production

Yea it's so bad, I've watched only two hours and now I have nothing to watch for the rest of the weekend, it's that bad.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If you aren't watching NASL live,

check out Game 2 of DarkForce vs. LaLive

the whole match when it comes up OnDemand.

So, so good.

One of the best matches I've seen in a while.

[TheButtonmen]

To everyone complaining about the NASL finals production value.

It's the NASL, why are you suprised?

Following their normal schedule Friday afternoon everything will fail, Friday evening they will get it working, Saturday afternoon everything will work moderatly, Staturday evening everything will be good, Sunday afternoon something will break, Sunday evening will be decent.

[Nocmen]

Because it's not just a NASL failure. It's below any public production i've ever seen. Worse than the worse of the local news, worse than high school or college tv.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If you are watching NASL for what the fucking stage looks like, you are doing it wrong.

[Moratorium]

it's not the stage...

- It's Day[9]'s microphone not leveled to where he's constantly saturating the mic as he yells into it
- It's the main camera appearing to be operated by Micheal J. Fox, no one thought to invest in a tripod.
- It's Tasteless having to tell the observer every five minutes to look at something important happening
- It's the crazy awkward interviews
- It's the audio being mis-balanced where for the first half day your right speaker was twice the volume of your left
- It's "hey is your mic on? I don't think my mic's on"
- It's the plywood booths that look like they were made in shop class, which are too small (I thought Sheth was going to die in there).
- It's not setting players to busy and Alive having to stop a match because people on the internet were messaging him telling him what the opponent was doing
- It's the projectors apparently being misaligned and so the shots up on the screens for the audience were crooked
- It's the 30 minute gaps between matches
- It's the players not being ready despite those gaps and the announcers having to fill waaaayyy too much time

At the end of the day, it's a bunch of starcraft matches. If you want to see a bunch of starcraft matches, great, here's a bunch right here. But there's a bajillion tournaments now, I can see tons of quality matches between quality players. The inbetween stuff is actually more important to me now, I want to see the good hype and the quality production. And knowing that new viewers will maybe come watch the NASL, think "what's this rinkydink circus show", and be turned off from watching any other events, it sucks, I'd rather this just not exist. It's an embarrassment. GSL is awesome. Dreamhack was awesome. MLG has taken huge leaps and is now awesome. Hell, Homestory 3, a tournament run in an APARTMENT ABOVE A BAR, was head and shoulders far beyond awesome.

NASL is some kids who suckered someone into investing into "that e-sports thing" for the prize pool, and not knowing how to put a production together, much less a live final.

[Nocmen]

The interviews aren't just awkward, but about 10% of the audio volume of anything else.

And they put Gretorp and Incontrol back on for the Boxer MC match...

[AGar]

it's not the stage...

- It's Day[9]'s microphone not leveled to where he's constantly saturating the mic as he yells into it
- It's the main camera appearing to be operated by Micheal J. Fox, no one thought to invest in a tripod.
- It's Tasteless having to tell the observer every five minutes to look at something important happening
- It's the crazy awkward interviews
- It's the audio being mis-balanced where for the first half day your right speaker was twice the volume of your left
- It's "hey is your mic on? I don't think my mic's on"
- It's the plywood booths that look like they were made in shop class, which are too small (I thought Sheth was going to die in there).
- It's not setting players to busy and Alive having to stop a match because people on the internet were messaging him telling him what the opponent was doing
- It's the projectors apparently being misaligned and so the shots up on the screens for the audience were crooked
- It's the 30 minute gaps between matches
- It's the players not being ready despite those gaps and the announcers having to fill waaaayyy too much time

At the end of the day, it's a bunch of starcraft matches. If you want to see a bunch of starcraft matches, great, here's a bunch right here. But there's a bajillion tournaments now, I can see tons of quality matches between quality players. The inbetween stuff is actually more important to me now, I want to see the good hype and the quality production. And knowing that new viewers will maybe come watch the NASL, think "what's this rinkydink circus show", and be turned off from watching any other events, it sucks, I'd rather this just not exist. It's an embarrassment. GSL is awesome. Dreamhack was awesome. MLG has taken huge leaps and is now awesome. Hell, Homestory 3, a tournament run in an APARTMENT ABOVE A BAR, was head and shoulders far beyond awesome.

NASL is some kids who suckered someone into investing into "that e-sports thing" for the prize pool, and not knowing how to put a production together, much less a live final.

Players are well beyond capable of turning on DND. The administrators shouldn't have to hold their hands, and where is Blizzard's "major tournament LAN copy" that's been promised? Same for them not being ready, these players are all grownups. The booths are a result of not having unlimited funding. They aren't cheap, and as far as I know, WCG USA

still

doesn't have them. Did you buy a pass? Do you have the pocket cash to run one of these things better? Because not for nothing, these things aren't cheap to put together. The venue, the equipment - it all costs a LOT of money.

GSL has sponsors that literally put hundreds of thousands of dollars into pre-designed infrastructure (that GSL studio? That's been up for roughly 3 and a half years now, and was constructed by people who had been in the industry for as long as 8 years prior). Dreamhack and MLG have been around the block for a very long time (and still have duds, hello Dallas). Homestory 3? That had ESL's backing written ALL over it.

NASL is being run by, believe it or not, people who actually do know what they're doing. Xeris has been around the block so many times, and run so many successful tournaments, that this is literally just a small nick on his resume, assuming it isn't fixed up for the rest of the weekend (which a lot of the things that CAN be fixed will be). This production is far from perfect, but it's the first time these guys have done something this big

without

major corporate backing like the rest of the leagues that you cited have. Mistakes will be made, and things won't be perfect.

I have experience running moderate sized events in BW. THINGS WILL HAPPEN. It's not a "Well maybe we'll get lucky and have the perfect storm." No. Shit happens. Did you SEE MLG Dallas? GSL spent 3 seasons running a wonked format before fixing it up. OSL, arguably the premier Brood War league in Korea, auto-lossed a player because they typed an extra p while requesting a pause (ppp instead of pp) - because they couldn't see their screen I believe. WCG USA - an event that has been running for 10 years now I believe - is still one of the poorest and most terribly run events in all of esports. If I had a nickel for every time an major tournament - online or off - had some unexpected problem arise, then I'd be filthy fucking rich. TSL is probably the ONLY SCBW/SC2 tournament that I can think of that had a nearly flawless first run.

So until you start running premier level leagues with 0 flaws, lay off the people who have been doing it for over half a decade and do most of this purely out of their love for the game and suggesting that it'd be better off not existing.

[Moratorium]

So essentially your white knight boils down to "give it a chance it'll get better", and my basic reaction is "No thanks."

[AGar]

No, my reaction is "I've been in their situation, chill or run your own event."

Everyone jumping down their throats about shit is ridiculous. Yes, they made some big mistakes. No, I haven't seen you do fuckall for the SC2 community.

Your big thing is "Well MLG and Dreamhack are soooo much better." MLG has been around since 2002. DreamHack? It started in 1994. MLG has sponsorship from major American corporations who are in day-to-day life. Dr. Pepper, Sony, Stride, Bic - these are all massive corporations with money to throw around like candy. Who does NASL have? Some mystery investor and iBuyPower.com.

It's really really easy to throw this stuff at them from the comfort of your own living room. It's a whole different ballgame to be in the hotseat and have something catastrophic go wrong, and have to deal with that kind of pressure.

[JDodge]

No, my reaction is "I've been in their situation, chill or run your own event."

Everyone jumping down their throats about shit is ridiculous. Yes, they made some big mistakes. No, I haven't seen you do fuckall for the SC2 community.

Your big thing is "Well MLG and Dreamhack are soooo much better." MLG has been around since 2002. DreamHack? It started in 1994. MLG has sponsorship from major American corporations who are in day-to-day life. Dr. Pepper, Sony, Stride, Bic - these are all massive corporations with money to throw around like candy. Who does NASL have? Some mystery investor and iBuyPower.com.

It's really really easy to throw this stuff at them from the comfort of your own living room. It's a whole different ballgame to be in the hotseat and have something catastrophic go wrong, and have to deal with that kind of pressure.

Except you're claiming them to be professionals, and the majority of what they are doing, specifically:

- It's Day[9]'s microphone not leveled to where he's constantly saturating the mic as he yells into it
- It's the main camera appearing to be operated by Micheal J. Fox, no one thought to invest in a tripod.
- It's Tasteless having to tell the observer every five minutes to look at something important happening
- It's the crazy awkward interviews
- It's the audio being mis-balanced where for the first half day your right speaker was twice the volume of your left
- It's "hey is your mic on? I don't think my mic's on"
- It's the projectors apparently being misaligned and so the shots up on the screens for the audience were crooked
- It's the 30 minute gaps between matches
- It's the players not being ready despite those gaps and the announcers having to fill waaaayyy too much time

Reek not of not having the funds to put on this tournament, but the general inability by its organizers to ensure that everything is running smoothly. You said it yourself; this isn't Xeris' first time around the block. The fact that he's putting on such a shoddy production

despite

that is a poor sign.

Saying "I haven't seen you do better" is an illegitimate excuse if not just because we as fans still have the right to judge on that basis, but

for the very reason you've stated about sponsorship

. Not all of us can get sponsorship deals. The reason why NASL can't afford better is because the continued walkovers through the group stages, the fact that the tournament cycle itself lasts

3 months

, and because their commentating values and general professionalism is

complete and utter shit

.

[AGar]

Saying "I haven't seen you do better" is an illegitimate excuse if not just because we as fans still have the right to judge on that basis

I'm not saying he can't criticize. In fact, I even said there were some huge mistakes in that production.

What I was saying was he has no right to suggest they should just pack it in and he would "rather this just not exist," if he's not doing anything himself.

Some of those issues are obvious flaws - and the biggest was the sound, yes. Something tells me they have some amateur who had a soundboard in his basement running it, because I do know - and am shocked slightly that they'd be this foolish - that NASL turned down people who volunteered to do some of the more technical jobs (like the sound) for free.

The players not being ready is just a matter of them being like "Look, either you're fucking ready on time or your DQ'd. Plain and simple."

NASL had it's flaws, and the first season was not what most people expected. I expected a lot better from them, especially given the people that they have on board. But anyone suggesting that we'd be better off without a major tournament or league existing because of an initial bad run is a

fucking idiot.

[JDodge]

Saying "I haven't seen you do better" is an illegitimate excuse if not just because we as fans still have the right to judge on that basis

I'm not saying he can't criticize. In fact, I even said there were some huge mistakes in that production.

What I was saying was he has no right to suggest they should just pack it in and he would "rather this just not exist," if he's not doing anything himself.

Some of those issues are obvious flaws - and the biggest was the sound, yes. Something tells me they have some amateur who had a soundboard in his basement running it, because I do know - and am shocked slightly that they'd be this foolish - that NASL turned down people who volunteered to do some of the more technical jobs (like the sound) for free.

The players not being ready is just a matter of them being like "Look, either you're fucking ready on time or your DQ'd. Plain and simple."

NASL had it's flaws, and the first season was not what most people expected. I expected a lot better from them, especially given the people that they have on board. But anyone suggesting that we'd be better off without a major tournament or league existing because of an initial bad run is a

fucking idiot.

he stated it's an embarrassment to the community and it may turn off first-time sc2 viewers who may otherwise be interested were they watching a tighter-run operation, a sentiment i fully agree with; do you disagree that any potential first-time viewer may be put off by how low-quality the production is?

[AGar]

I'm biased, but yes I disagree. I've seen people who watched BW tournaments that had absolute shit quality production and still get pulled in, so I don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

[Moratorium]

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... r_esports/

Top post on /r/starcraft posted four hours ago, basically restates what I'm stating.

[JDodge]

I'm biased, but yes I disagree. I've seen people who watched BW tournaments that had absolute shit quality production and still get pulled in, so I don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

are you aware of the difference in viewing numbers between brood war and sc2?

[Nocmen]

Today is decent, sound is still going between loud and silent alot, but my main complaint today is just how cringe worthy that girl interviewing is.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'll just leave this here.

[AGar]

I'm biased, but yes I disagree. I've seen people who watched BW tournaments that had absolute shit quality production and still get pulled in, so I don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

are you aware of the difference in viewing numbers between brood war and sc2?

No not at all

I'm also aware that people are mire likely to be intrigued by good games than bells and whistles.

[TheButtonmen]

Today went smoothly on the production side and awesomly on the games side.

[Iecerint]

Yay I got the Lost Viking achievement. ^^~

Simple pleasures.

[Gammagooey]

I FINALLY GOT MY LAPTOP ADAPTER IN THE MAIL.

Anyone want to play tonight?